There is a program for every player

Welcome to the HSBBW!

First, has he been to any showcase to get an idea of where his skills are at this time? How are his grades? The showcase evaluation will give you an idea of where to start.

IMO there is always a place for a player who really wants to play after HS, but make sure it is something he wants to do, not what you want him to do.

Don't sell your son short, I have known a few players that were not considered any type of "chip" players as juniors in HS and now playing in professional ball, not milb but MLB.

Exposure, has he had any besides HS?

Why don't you get in touch with the coaches at McMurray Univ. and Hardin-Simmons Univ. in Abilene. Both are D3 programs that might have an interest in your son. I don't know anything about the McMurray coach, but Coach Coleman with Hardin-Simmons is an outstanding guy who mentors his players and treats them like sons. Make an appointment with Coach Coleman and he will talk your ear off for hours. He is extremely friendly and helpful and if he can't take your son, he might know someone who will be interested in him.

By the way, Coach Coleman told us that D3's can't hold tryouts, but added that he oftentimes attends the annual tryout at Abilene Christian University and picks up players that D2 ACU isn't interested in. Check with ACU to see when the tryout is. I think it's in June.

Best wishes!

You might start by looking at the local/regional Junior colleges.

Check each to see if they have camps this fall. They are usually put on as a fund raise for the school but they also take notice of HS players. Work ethic and a love for the game can go a very long way with this type of program.

Next try and see if the local big college has a fall baseball league for HS students. A lot of them do. Also a way to raise funds but they also look for kids they can recommend to a JC or maybe even see if the player would fit their program.

The level of play after HS is as varied as what you see in HS. So I have seen and know as well, there is a place somewhere for every kid that wants to continue playing.

The challenge is matching the player to the proper level of play. I am not saying he would be a starter but that there is opportunities out there to contribute and have the college experience with a team. Plus you never know how someone will develop over the next year or two.

And as a coach some would create a roster spot just for a bull nosed kid that gives everything and loves the game. Remember the movie Rudy? They feel that type of player can bring just as much value in how he rubs off on those around him as another utility player that may get no innings and complain all the time. There are JUCO's that I would put against any D-1 program and some D-1's that I don't think could beat our old HS team 2 out of 3.

Anyway I would start there and make sure he plays some where this summer also. His age alone would bring people to a game just to look for players. And you never know a coach may be looking at the other teams starting pitcher but takes notice of your son and his love of the game as well.


GL and let us know how things go.

Hwy380,

Welcome to our world. You are a breath of fresh air listening to your description of your son. Sounds like a working mans son. The advice given so far is outstanding as many of us have been there done that.
By your description your son works hard and that is the key to success. Good luck.

Make a short video. Nothing fancy. In fact, the more real the better, but show his swing and few other basics. Reach out to schools. Most do not have budgets for recrutiing. Your son can e-mail coaches to find out about camps. Research on your own camps and showcases. They are pricey, so you need to carefully consider which ones match your sights.

PS Generally speaking, baseball coaches are willing to provide information and help to kids that want to continue playing. Top tier DI programs-that's a different world.

I just thought about some Division 3 jr. colleges in Dallas that have teams. I have heard that the level of competition isn't that high (at least at some of them), so perhaps your son would do well there. Look into Richland College, Eastfield College, Cedar Valley College, Northlake College, and Brookhaven College.

This comment is more "one man's impression" than it is fact-based, none the less . . .

My impression is there may be more opportunity for a player like your son outside the state of Texas. The reason is that Texas (along with Florida, California, and a few other southern states) turns out LOTS of baseball talent. Much of that talent ends up at the D3 schools in Texas. [Only the best of the best ends up at the D1's in TX.] If your son is willing to go a bit farther from home, I believe the number of possibilities will go up. Many states in the midwest & the east have a college (it seems) in nearly every town of 1500 people. The ratio of schools to number of HS baseball players wanting to continue appears to favor a look to the north &/or east of Texas.

Again, not completely a data-derived opinion, but here are a few data points (based on 5 mineutes of web searching) to illustrate:

Texas has a population of 20.8 mil and has 26 D2 and D3 baseball programs. That is 1 school for each 800,000 people.

Ohio has a population of 11.3 mil and 26 D2 and D3 baseball programs. That's the same number of schools, but about half as many "potential players", 453,000 / school.

West Virginia has a population of 1.8 million and 14 D2 and D3 schools. That's only ~128,000 people per school.

Understand, I am making no inference about the ability of players in Ohio vs WVA vs TX. I'm just pointing out the numbers say there are more possibilities to play college ball there than in TX. And we aren't even looking at NAIA or JUCO ball.

And I'm not ajusting for the relative ages of the populations in each state. You get the point....

quote:

Originally posted by Up in the Stands:
This comment is more "one man's impression" than it is fact-based, none the less . . .

My impression is there may be more opportunity for a player like your son outside the state of Texas. The reason is that Texas (along with Florida, California, and a few other southern states) turns out LOTS of baseball talent. Much of that talent ends up at the D3 schools in Texas. [Only the best of the best ends up at the D1's in TX] If your son is willing to go a bit farther from home, I believe the number of possibilities will go up. Many states in the midwest & the east have a college (it seems) in nearly every town of 1500 people. The ratio of schools to number of HS baseball players wanting to continue appears to favor a look to the north &/or east of Texas.

Again, not completely a data-derived opinion, but here are a few data points (based on 5 mineutes of web searching) to illustrate:

Texas has a population of 20.8 mil and has 26 D2 and D3 baseball programs. That is 1 school for each 1.25 mil people.

Ohio has a population of 11.3 mil and 26 D2 and D3 baseball programs. That's the same number of schools, but about half as many "potential players".

West Virginia has a population of 1.8 million and 14 D2 and D3 schools. That's only ~128,000 people per school.

Understand, I am making no inference about the ability of players in Ohio vs WVA vs TX. I'm just pointing out the numbers say there are more possibilities to play college ball there than in TX. And we aren't even looking at NAIA or JUCO ball.

That is an outstanding post and I agree 100%. We have many parents from California who have posted similar things. There is more talent in California than there are available positions and I am sure it is the same in Texas. There are some powerhouse D3 schools here in Ohio btw - national championship caliber.

For the original poster, I would get out a map and draw a one hour driving circle from your home at the center. I would contact every juco coach that fell in that circle and see what they have to say. After speaking to them, ask for a tryout, or ask if they will attend one of your sons games, and/or ask if they are aware of any other opportunities. With the Internet these days, this information (school location, coaches numbers) is easy to find.

I will tell you that in the State of NC there are more opportunities by far than there are players to fill them. From numerous D1 programs to Community College programs.

One of the best ways to find a kid a home is to have a coach with contacts contact the college coaches and inquire of his behalf. Many of these programs have JV programs as well. They are always looking for young men that want an opportunity to play at the next level. And many times you will see a kid and say "Who the heck is that." A kid that flew under the radar his hs career and then busted out at the college level. This happens for many reasons but never happens when they dont give it a shot.

There is a program for every player that wants to take his shot. And he is determined to do what it takes to be a part of a college program. I have coached a long time. I have NEVER had one single player not play college baseball that had the desire to play college baseball. Guys that were bench players and seldom saw playing time who later earned all conference honors in college. Guys that were lucky to make the hs team as fresh and sophs who later were starters at the college level. Guys that now coach in college who started on the JV squad and graduated as a starter at the college level.

There are many excuses you or a player can find on why it didnt happen. But if a player wants it and is willing to go where he can get an opportunity it can be done. It boils down to "how bad do you really want to play in college?" Good luck

hwy380,

My son was facing the same situation as your son a couple of years ago. He was a good player but got lost in the large talent pool that this part of the country has. (we are also from North Texas) Son made it very clear he wanted to play D1 baseball and was willing to go far from home to do it.

Our solution was to have him attend camps that were hosted by schools further north and make sure the coaches who worked these camps knew that the Texas kid was very interested in playing at a northern school. It paid off and son is playing D1 ball at South Dakota State. He is having a great time and the team is doing pretty well so far this year.

The advise offered to you by the other posters is excellent (D2, D3, juco, NAIA)but don't think that there isn't any opportunity to play D1 if your son is truly willing to explore opportunities outside the geographic box. Our example of a kid going from Texas to South Dakota may seem extreme to a lot of folks from the warm south, but the game is played the same way, by young men who have just as much passion for it and work just as hard at it as players from any other parts of the country.

If you are curious, the camp that made the difference for our son was at the University of Kansas. The head coach there saw enough potential in our son to recommend him to the head coach at South Dakota State. They also happen to be father and son. SDSU turned out to be the right place at the right time.

This thread makes me feel better for my struggling son. But with so, so many schools out there....how to find that one match?!?! A daunting task.

Go Jacks has a very valid point... And that is what worked for their family and it seems to be the right choice for them.

However I have seen that situation as described backfire twice the last few years. Both by a close friend of the family's daughter and by my nephew. Both moved many hours away from home to have the chance to play sports. Basketball and baseball. The challenge is in making sure your son has the mental toughness to be far away from home,family and friends. both the above players left after one year and neither are playing now.But during the course of that year they were both miserable.

So as I stated there are places for every player but you really need to approach it from the standpoint of being a "Student/Athlete" The goal being able to enjoy playing on into college but starting on your academic skills. That said looking at a 4 year school especially away from home although providing a place to play might not be a good idea for some. Looking at a JUCO close to home now and getting core courses out of the way would provide the chance to improve his skills, get some playing time and maybe get a look from the 4 year schools that recruit from the two years.
Even with that; making sure that the credits earned will transfer to the 4 year school they hope to attend. And maybe just maybe everything blends into the perfect storm.

TPM

Yes he has done a showcase in the Perfect game they gave him a 6.5 on there chart that is respectable. This is all for him. I never even played the sport. He loves the game and works hard at it. He has a decent glove at first but his only true attribute is power hitting. thee are allot of power hitters with a higher PG raking of 6.5.

quote:

Infield08

Infield08 thanks for going as far as dropping a name. We will make the trip. I have a couple of DVD's we can take from the Perfect Game showcase is there any more I should take. Here is a question when he played for a select team in Colorado as a 9th graded the coach listed him as there number 1 power hitting prospect. These guys we know relatively well even though that was 9th grade should we get a letter from them? Will it be helpful.

quote:

GovernorTim

GovernorTim

I was told that most the JR Colleges want ready players only. Does vary from program to program?

quote:

Infield08

Infield08

I just saw the list of schools. I do have a card up my sleeve, my son gets batting lessons from one of the former Brookhaven coaches back when the team led the nation in Home Runs I think that year they also went to the national championship game. His name is Corey Thornton. He likes my son a lot and was the first person who told us "there is a place for every kid"

quote:

Up in the Stands

Up in the Stands

Being out of state is not a problem. I was serious my son will go anywhere to play and go to school. Would you say the best course of action is email and some online video? Any other suggestion for out of state self recruiting please post.

My guy went from NY to New Mexico to play college ball---no big thing--he was where he wanted to be

Why do people listen to what others tell them. Get out and make your opportunity. Stop listening and take some action.

hwy380,
One aspect you have not mentioned is grades.
No matter where you go, with the skills you are referencing for your son, grades are going to open or close more doors than baseball.
Texas is a hot bed of DIII baseball and your son's PG grade would suggest that there could be schools in the DIII range that would be a baseball fit, if the academics are also a fit.
There are also some DIII's in Texas where it would be a reach, baseball wise, for your son because they compete at a level of play that is better than more Northern higher level schools.
If your son is truly passionate about playing baseball in college, his grades are going to determine how many or how few options he might have.
From a baseball perspective, you live in a hot bed of DIII baseball. The academic aspects of Texas DIII schools vary widely.
If it were my son, with our experience at a Texas DIII, I would get on the ASC and SCAC websites and get to work finding schools that look like academic fits. Once you have those, you can begin checking with coaches on the baseball fit.

hwy380

The people that told you that are correct to a large extent. Ready players are nice since they don't have the luxury of spending 2 years developing them like a 4 year school does.
But there are many many JUCO's that develop players.
If your son is a hitter as you indicate and avg 1st baseman he may be just the bat the coach needs for the DH slot and gives him another year to work on his glove.

Dont forget he is a junior also and if he loves the game and works at it, I have seem many kids blossom over this period in their baseball development. His summer program will see coach's /scouts dropping in sometimes. If your son plays the game hard, shows the hustle and leadership, has the bat he will draw attn and get looks.


BobbleheadDoll.... I think I understand where you are coming from with your statement but the reason this site exists is for information to make the best choices for their kids.

With respect to you Tom some kids are more mature and ready to handle being away from home and it not being a big deal. Some think they are till they get there. Combine that with limited paying time or chances and kids can go south real quick.

quote:

Originally posted by hwy380:

quote:

Up in the Stands

Would you say the best course of action is email and some online video? Any other suggestion for out of state self recruiting please post.

What worked for us is not unlike what many others have suggested. We started by casting a very wide net. We sent letters to probably 70-80 different schools including lots of D1, many D2, some D3 and some NAIA's that are perenial baseball contenders. Most sent back a canned invite to a camp. Some sent personal notes and expressed real interest.

We also made a 5-6 minute video of my son pitching. It was actually 3 "full" innings of pitching from 2 different games, edited down to wind up delivery and result. We sent the video to selected schools that expressed interest in my son, and that he was reasonably interested in.

My son also played on a summer team that put him in front of several college coaches in TX, plus they played in East Cobb in front of lots of coaches /recruiters.

And Mom and Dad prayed a lot.

He ended up with an offer from an east coast D1, a midwest D2, a Texas D3, and a midwest NAIA school.

We're flying out east in a couple hours to catch about 7 D1 games over spring break. Is this a great country or what!!!

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Why do people listen to what others tell them. Get out and make your opportunity. Stop listening and take some action.

Are you serious. Do you browse forums all day to get the topics off track. Every bit of advise here is welcomed and I asked for it please find something else to do.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
hwy380,
One aspect you have not mentioned is grades.
No matter where you go, with the skills you are referencing for your son, grades are going to open or close more doors than baseball.
Texas is a hot bed of DIII baseball and your son's PG grade would suggest that there could be schools in the DIII range that would be a baseball fit, if the academics are also a fit.
There are also some DIII's in Texas where it would be a reach, baseball wise, for your son because they compete at a level of play that is better than more Northern higher level schools.
If your son is truly passionate about playing baseball in college, his grades are going to determine how many or how few options he might have.
From a baseball perspective, you live in a hot bed of DIII baseball. The academic aspects of Texas DIII schools vary widely.
If it were my son, with our experience at a Texas DIII, I would get on the ASC and SCAC websites and get to work finding schools that look like academic fits. Once you have those, you can begin checking with coaches on the baseball fit.

GPA 3.75

quote:

Originally posted by Up in the Stands:

quote:

Originally posted by hwy380:

quote:

Up in the Stands

Would you say the best course of action is email and some online video? Any other suggestion for out of state self recruiting please post.

What worked for us is not unlike what many others have suggested. We started by casting a very wide net. We sent letters to probably 70-80 different schools including lots of D1, many D2, some D3 and some NAIA's that are perenial baseball contenders. Most sent back a canned invite to a camp. Some sent personal notes and expressed real interest.

We also made a 5-6 minute video of my son pitching. It was actually 3 "full" innings of pitching from 2 different games, edited down to wind up delivery and result. We sent the video to selected schools that expressed interest in my son, and that he was reasonably interested in.

My son also played on a summer team that put him in front of several college coaches in TX, plus they played in East Cobb in front of lots of coaches /recruiters.

And Mom and Dad prayed a lot.

He ended up with an offer from an east coast D1, a midwest D2, a Texas D3, and a midwest NAIA school.

We're flying out east in a couple hours to catch about 7 D1 games over spring break. Is this a great country or what!!!

Great work looks like it paid off. I appreciate the advice. I will keep people posted and hope that others post what is working for them here also. We are also doing a lot of praying

I agree with what Tim has said about being very far from home, it is not the right plan for every player amd should be a big consideration when looking into programs.
We sent out player far from home, he adjusted well and had a great experience in the class as well as on the field, but he did tell us that he was sorry that he wasn't closer to friends and family.

Its amazing the number of schools and programs out there. I suppose that there really is a program for every player, assuming the ability is there.

New2This I had a bullpen catcher that simply was not good enought to earn very much playing time in our program. He loved the game , worked very hard and wanted to continue playing baseball. I called a good D3 program and told the coach about the kid. He went on a visit and loved it. He went and was the bull pen catcher on the JV squad his freshman year. He continued to work very hard and saw some playing time as a soph on JV. His sr year he was the #2 catcher on varsity and did very well. He now is coaching in college.

If the player loves the game. If he is willing to do what it takes to be a part of a college baseball program. There is a place for every player that truly wants to play at the next level. Unless you set conditions that eliminate you from the schools you can actually continue to play at. How bad do you want to do it?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
There is a place for every player that truly wants to play at the next level. Unless you set conditions that eliminate you from the schools you can actually continue to play at.

That is a really great thing to point out. I can imagine that eliminating yourself is a real danger if you are not careful.

CM people can be their own worst enemies. Am I too short ? Should I call the coach ? Should I ? Am I ? and on and on.
Yes there are programs for almost every player. I even saw a one eyed catcher who played college ball and was a bull pen catcher for a pro team.

Have you looked into Southwestern in Georgetown or Trinity in San Antonio (both D3)? With his good grades he might get some academic scholarship money.

Good luck and have fun!

Look , I have had kids that told me they wanted to play college baseball. But not if they had to go to a smaller school to do it because they wanted the big campus college experience. Not if they had to go too far away from home. Not if they were not going to have a chance to play early. Not if they were going to have to play D3 baseball. Not if..................................etc etc.

Then you dont want to play college baseball bad enough. If you did you would not set conditions on it. It was and is their choice and I am not knocking anyone for deciding that those conditions are so important to them that they would rather not do it.

But for the player that REALLY wants to play at the college level and is not going to set conditions that will eliminate the options that suit his current baseball ability or academic standing or ability as well, their is a program for everyone of these players.

Hey HWY380,
Stay up beat and do the work to contact the schools your son is interested in. All the advice you are getting is pretty good. The best one was going away from CA. TX. And FL. Those 3 all get flooded with talent both home grown and from all across the states. Also befor someone gets all worked up yes I do recruiting for players at my son’s school and I am not trying to sign you up with any recruiting company. I live in So. Cal. A baseball hotbed and I have 4 boys, 18, 16, 14 and 10 years old. My oldest is 5’6” 135lbs with a 3.5 GPA. And he just signed to play at a small school in Iowa so yes there is a place for almost every player if they have some talent and put in the time not only on the field but in the class room.
Here is some more advice to help narrow down your search.

1) What does he want to study?
2) How far is he willing to move?
3) What size school, big or small?
4) Is money an issue?
5) Level of competition?
6) Ability to play right away?

Good luck and if you and your son do the leg work I am sure he will find a place to play

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:
Have you looked into Southwestern in Georgetown or Trinity in San Antonio (both D3)? With his good grades he might get some academic scholarship money.

Good luck and have fun!

Will put these schools on the growing list. Do you know if it helps to let them know That money is not an object. Should that it can be brought up in the discussion?

Another conference to consider is the Northwest Conference. The NWC is made up of D3 schools in Washington and Oregon. Academically there is a wide range of levels as well as a reasonably wide range of majors to chose from.

PM me if you would like more info. Between my son and my daughter, I think I have done a visit to nearly every school in the conference.

On the Southwestern/Trinity question. My daughter (not an athlete) went to Southwestern. My limited information is that they make their admissions decisions based on who they want to admit, not financial issues. The question will be what are they looking for on the baseball team. I'm sure they would be glad to know that you can afford to pay what isn't covered by scholarships.

My view is that your son has a lot to offer in that he has good grades and a great sports attitude. It is a small school which looks for quality people. She has a great experience there, and has friends who played sports there all 4 years.

As for Trinity, I have a niece there playing softball. She also receives financial aid. Again, I believe the admissions decisions are separate from the financial aid decision. Her parents could afford to pay what isn't covered by her scholarships, which I'm sure was a plus at some level.

I didn't mention Austin College in Sherman. Another an academically sound Div 3 school.

Good luck.

While I agree that hypothetically, there is a program for every player, I just don't see where a HS player with average skills can rest assured that there is a place for him at the next level.

By no means do I want be perceived as a "downer" but reality says that academic aspirations, team cuts, economics, geographic location, and luck, may put the average player behind the 8-ball in regard to finding that college "place" where he fits. College baseball is a great goal, but, a hefty one. I've seen many players in my area, which is not strong, have college baseball aspirations and when reality hits they just do not match up with the college game. No cut on any player, just a reality check that is sometimes missing on this site because it is chocked full of "nice people" who are the parents of successful college players who have usually walked downhill during this process. We sometimes forget that there are average HS players and their parents that read this site and we fit them with rose colored glasses when we make statements like "there is a program for every player". We may be sending a message that cannot be attained regardless of the program.

Sometimes those rose colored glasses are maybe being worn by the "advise givers" on this site . I plead guilty at times to those charges and while I've heard the devils advocate attitude is frowned upon here, it is part of the big picture IMO, and should not be "blown off".

It is not always about how far you take the game, it is about how to passionate you are about the game, regardless of the level you attain.

As rz ducks for cover

Having a 3.75 GPA and parents who can pay private school tuition gives this player an advantage over a lot of average players who don't have the grades or the money. None of us on this forum know whether the kid has the skills to play D3 baseball. I figure the question is do we have any advice which might help this kid maximize his chances - he isn't walking downhill. A lot of folks have given advice. Now the rest is up to the player and his family to see where the chips fall.

My brother was a 165 pound offensive lineman in high school, and played college football in Texas. He didn't believe it when people said he was too small to play in college. My niece is not a spectacular softball pitcher (I'd say average), but had good enough grades to have four D3 schools in Texas offer her a chance to play. She's 3-0 this season.

My view is that pessimism inhibits people from achieving their goals than optimism. Failure is a fact of life, and if you don't find a team, you just have to move on. But you for sure won't find one if you don't try.

Good post rz. I don't think the title of the thread can be taken literally. There are a lot of kids who are not and won't be good enough to play college baseball. However, if a player is willing to work hard enough and look for the right fit, sometimes a fair piece from home, a whole lot of players do have a chance to play college ball.

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:
A lot of folks have given advice. Now the rest is up to the player and his family to see where the chips fall.
Point taken, but what's so wrong about at least being reminded that the sun doesn't shine on every side of the building?

My brother was a 165 pound offensive lineman in high school, and played college football in Texas. He didn't believe it when people said he was too small to play in college.
Did he play O-line in college. If so GREAT, an exception to the norm. However, baseball many times does not allow the position latitude for the player like football might due to a size issue.

My view is that pessimism inhibits people from achieving their goals than optimism. Failure is a fact of life, and if you don't find a team, you just have to move on. But you for sure won't find one if you don't try.
If you're referring to my post I never intended to have a pessimistic approach, it was realistic. With the right approach, grasping reality is a great means of instilling optimism and "drive".

I didn't take rz's post as being negative I took it as him just being honest. I do believe there is a program for every player that wants to play in college. The reason I believe that is every player that has ever played for me that wanted to play in college has had the opportunity to do so. Now let me dig a little deeper and clarify that.

First of all the player has to really want to play at the next level. If they are setting conditions then they don't want to bad enough. It may mean the location , size of school , program etc is just something that they would rather pass on. That is fine there is nothing wrong with it. But if a player really wants to play college baseball there is a program out there for them. Now can they stay there? Can they do what they need to do to continue to be a part of that program? Will they be willing to continue to do what they have to do to stay there?

Many D3 programs have JV squads as well as some D2's. There are several community college programs always looking for players. I come from a state that has to look outside its borders to fill its rosters. From D1 D2 D3 NAIA Comm College JUCO. I have coached kids in HS that never started a game in HS that went to college and played college baseball. But they all had some things in common. They loved the game. They did not set conditions on where or who they would play for. They were willing to do whatever it took to continue to stay in the game.

Some never saw the field in college. Some saw limited time while in college. Some blossomed while in college. I have no problem finding a place for every kid that TRULY wants to play at the next level. I do it for many kids each year that have never played for me. Some of posters on this site that I have never met.

But if your setting conditions there very well might not be a place for you. The better you are the more options you will have. The better student you are the more options you will have. The more conditions you set the less options including none can be the case.

RZ1 - Yes, my brother played offensive line for 4 years for Austin College. He later overcame extreme personal obstacles in his life. He's just one of those guys who goes for it. Our dad always said "never up, never in", meaning if you don't try, you get nothing. No called third strikes - you better go down swinging. It is an attitude that has helped me tremendously.

My son wants to play at UT. Do I think he has a chance? I really don't know, but highly unlikely. I'll send him to camp there to give him a chance, because I'm fortunate to be able to do so. Of course we will work many other options as well, including some of the schools I have recommended in this thread. Things will sort out eventually.

Good discussion.

quote:

Point taken, but what's so wrong about at least being reminded that the sun doesn't shine on every side of the building?

That is not what we sell here on this site

I think the title of this thread is accurate. For someone that wants it badly enough, there is a place for them imho. Average ballplayers (or their parents) do not take the time to seek out a resource such as this in order to find out what it takes to get to the next level. Moreover, average players don't have the drive necessary to go forward and risk failure even when the naysayers are telling them otherwise.

Winners are not afraid to fail. I have been consistent with my posts of encouragement on this site. I have always said it takes decent talent to play at the next level. Not overwhelming talent but decent talent. What it takes is overwhelming desire imho.

Coach May is right. It is all about how one defines the parameters. If one says Stanford or Cal State Fullerton or LSU or bust, then of course there is not a program for every player. For a determined ballplayer having decent abilities, someone willing to do whatever necessary to find a fit for their respective abilities, there is a program out there for them.

Finally, nothing epitomizes better what I am talking about than the movie Rudy. Sure, Rudy technically never played but the way he defined his own personal success, he became a huge winner. The sun did indeed shine on all parts of the building in Rudy's world. To continue the metephor, if a player says "I need the sun to shine on all sides of the building at the SAME time," then I agree there will not be a program for them. On the other hand, if a determined player says "I am willing to work and scratch and claw and persevere UNTIL the sun shines on MY side of the buiilding then imho there is a program for them.

Forgive me in advance for seeing the glass half full

I tend to agree with the yes there is position, given Coach May's lack of preconditions. My youngest son loves baseball more than anything else he does. He has many talents, but this is what he works on to excel. In high school, he was a good baseball player, had an arm injury his freshman year, which effectively ended his pitching career, although we didn't know it then. Sophmore year was pretty much wasted trying to recover from surgery. Went to the outfield, with occasional pitching in relief appearances. BTW, we moved in the middle of sophmore year, so he was starting over in a new program besides the injury. After a couple weeks, earned the LF spot, hitting in the 3 hole. Senior year, after coaching change, still LF, still 3 hole, and recognized by coach as the best leader he ever had on a team, not the best player. No interest from any colleges, except one local juco. CoachB25 gave me some tips. We contacted several schools, and eventually, a small DII in Iowa gave him a chance. He played there for a couple years, but wasn't really happy. After a couple of summers in a wood bat league in the south, and talking to other players, he asked for and received a release, talked to some NAIA schools, and eventually transferred to one of those. He had a college history, an okay one at DII and summer league, but was starting over again. Halfway through this season, his team is 22-5, he is hitting .409, is in the top 5 in NAIA in doubles and runs scored, and is happier than he has been in a long time, and has told his mother and me that he has learned so much from his coach about life issues, not just baseball. Yes there is a spot, maybe more than one, but it takes work. I cannot tell you the number of hours he has put in the weight room, the cages, running, etc. to improve his game. All I know is he is doing what he loves, and I hope he is able to do that the rest of his life.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

quote:

Point taken, but what's so wrong about at least being reminded that the sun doesn't shine on every side of the building?

That is not what we sell here on this site
Again, point taken. However I think that it is morally wrong to sell "instant success" without a warning label and IMHO the title and most of the responses to this thread does not do that.

Average ballplayers (or their parents) do not take the time to seek out a resource such as this in order to find out what it takes to get to the next level.
IMO this is where I think things run a-muck at times. While those who have screen names on this site may fall into the description you mention, there are probably hundreds of parents/players a day who visit this site out of curiosity, searching for rose tinted dreams, or in need of a good laugh. That is the group that I speak of, the anonymous surfing parent of an average or non-committed player who can play for his own HS team, but, probably lacks the skill to play past HS. They do exist, and I know for a fact that they do visit this site in search of that pot of gold.

No question Coach May is right....there is a program for every player, provided there are no limitations. Most players, however, DO set limitations.....oh, so you don't want to go to school in northerm Maine and play for UMaine - Presque Isle? Ahhhh....well, there's a team that's probably looking for players. They finished last season with a couple of home games - their first in 4 years. The weather in northern Maine means the Owls play nearly (ok, all) all their games on the road.

Here's a link to a NY Times article about the program:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03...html?_r=2&ref=sports

This year's roster for the UMPI Owls shows 16 players. I'm sure Coach Saucier would love to have a few more players. Any hard throwing lefties out there?

So, is there a program for those those players that truly want to play beyond high school. As others have said....you truly have to have the desire - and no limitations.

quote:

No question Coach May is right....there is a program for every player, provided there are no limitations.

That "no limitation" clause really screws my thoughts and opens the door to any school that has a mascot and someone who will answer to coach. If a players #1 priority is to play post HS baseball and he doesn't care where, then I think there may be some serious priority issues in regard to planning for his adult future.

quote:

Again, point taken. However I think that it is morally wrong to sell "instant success" without a warning label and IMHO the title and most of the responses to this thread does not do that.

We are reading different posts. I don't see anyone selling instant success. I see people giving ideas on how to direct efforts. The key word being EFFORTS.

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:
We are reading different posts. I don't see anyone selling instant success. I see people giving ideas on how to direct efforts. The key word being EFFORTS.

We must be. The thread I'm reading is called "There is a program for every player"

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

No question Coach May is right....there is a program for every player, provided there are no limitations.

That "no limitation" clause really screws my thoughts and opens the door to any school that has a mascot and someone who will answer to coach. If a players #1 priority is to play post HS baseball and he doesn't care where, then I think there may be some serious priority issues in regard to planning for his adult future.

I don't recall seeing anywhere in Coach May's "limitations" that he mentioned academics, so we have to assume that he is referring to non-academic self-imposed limitations.

rz1....yes, if baseball is the #1 priority (no matter where) over education, there would seem to be an issue - at least in our house.

But, I agree with the statement that there IS a program out there for every player. I think sometimes players (and parents) need to have a wider 'radar screen' of possibilitites. Not everyone will play D1 in ACC, SEC, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by New2This:
I don't recall seeing anywhere in Coach May's "limitations" that he mentioned academics, so we have to assume that he is referring to non-academic self-imposed limitations.

I'm sorry I thought college was about academics first then baseball.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Originally posted by New2This:
I don't recall seeing anywhere in Coach May's "limitations" that he mentioned academics, so we have to assume that he is referring to non-academic self-imposed limitations.

I'm sorry I thought college was about academics first then baseball.

That's exactly what I said. I interpret Coach May's comments to be "post" academic issues, once academic priorities are sorted out.

So what everyone is saying is that once you've decided that your goal is a BS in Meteorology, there are still baseball programs available to you?

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
So what you're saying is that once you've decided that your goal is a BS in Meteorology, there are still baseball programs available to you?

Yes, of course that is what we are saying.

Player decides that he could get a meterology degree at LSU, Stanford, Rice, or University of Chicago (UoC). He determines that he has D3 level ability so he does everything in his power to get recruited at UoC. Plan B - player attends juco for two years all the while improving his baseball skills. Every school that he wants to attend for meteorology is now in play since his baseball skils and physical maturity have caught up. Plan C - player plays two years at the juco, realizes he does not want to continue and transfers to Rice to complete his degree. There are literally millions of variations on this theme. All of them with viable academic and baseball solutions.

The first person to get rz1 to cry uncle gets a reward. I'll send you a pm to inform you of the reward

BS in Meteorology - pretty big limitation, depending upon your particular level of baseball skills, is my guess.

BS in Science...less of a limitation.

BS (in whatever major) much less of a limitation.

quote:

The first person to get rz1 to cry uncle gets a reward. I'll send you a pm to inform you of the reward

Now that's funny! Thanks, CD, for lightening up the thread.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
So what you're saying is that once you've decided that your goal is a BS in Meteorology, there are still baseball programs available to you?

Maybe, why not? Our son wants to major in engineering and any school on his "baseball" list must first have either his major or associated academics, that goes for JUCO and 4yr colleges alike, including liberal arts colleges if they have a 3/5 transfer program leading to another school with the major.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

The first person to get rz1 to cry uncle gets a reward. I'll send you a pm to inform you of the reward

ok I seem to be the only idiot that doesn't see this as the perfect world.

I talk and work with parents and kids year round who work theirs a$$es off with a vision to follow the same path my son had and play college baseball. The are committed to the hilt to make the next level and they do visit this site because I tell them it is a wealth of knowledge for baseball related issues and debates. At the same time I also know that many do not have the tools to step on the field of any college program in this State or any other and at the same time realize their academic goals. We don't live in one of the baseball meccas that many on this site live in and everyone's knowledge of National HS talent may not be as encompassing as they may think.

I guess I could tell them that there is an diesel mechanics tech school in ND where they could try out and probably make the team thus satisfying the thread claim .

Is that chasing the dream or succumbing to it?

later

Keep in mind that the majority of kids coming out of HS have no idea as to what they want to major in--that is why the first two years of college academics are basic for nearly all the entering students.

No, this is not a perfect world especially when it comes to college selection and associated baseball. I truly belive that there is a college for every kid who wants to play college baseball--it may not be the level he seeks or the school he seeks but compromise happens and the student can play ball
and get his education. Obviously the kid with a select major faces a tougher decision because of his academic choice but for the average student there is a college for them where they can play ball.

TR- on an academic message board a parent was asking questions about her son playing in college, specifically the Ivies, or high academic D3's in the NE. I suggested she read this site and contact you for some guidance. So if you get a PM that may be who it's from. Told her you are the best source for that area (hope you don't mind).

CABB


Thanx for the heads up

I will look for the PM --no problem

IMHO based on my current knowledge (oldest is 2011), I'd have to agree with Coach May and ClevelandDad that an AVERAGE high school player can find a team at the next level with some effort and with few if any limitations put onto the selection.

The key to me is AVERAGE. The definition is based on the observer at any given time. I've met many folks who had what I will politely call an "inflated" version of their son's talent. Thus, they would consider their son above average when, in fact, they may not even be average to a knowledgeable, impartial observer.

An example of my thinking from what I have seen over the last several years watching HS baseball...The school where some kids played did not have much talent and they have started or played on Varsity for 3 or 4 years. IMO, some of those kids are talented enough that the same would happen at almost any school. But, some of those same kids would see very limited time on the field or may not even make the JV / Varsity teams at other area schools.

One or more honest assessments from the right folks is needed to control the rose colored glasses.

Average is a hard term for me to get my arms around. Average in one program may mean above average or below average in another. I like the term decent because it means that a player is a contributing member of his team. Doesn't mean he is the star of the team but a contributing member nonetheless.

When I look at the numbers posted on this site for example, there are about 1/2 million graduating seniors that could potentially vie for about 50,000 post high school college programs including JUCO, NAIA, D3, D2, and D1. That is about 1 in 10 odds of making a college roster (including diesel mechanics school in ND ). I am sure if we walked into any high school dugout and asked for a show of hands how many wanted to play in college, we might see every hand go up. When we looked at their actions however i.e., how many of them actually took the initiative to be recruited, we might only be talking 1 or 2 players on many teams. Thus, even though the 1 in 10 numbers seem daunting, for the kids that are passionately trying to get recruited somewhere, the odds are probably much higher for that group. I am guessing for many of these kids, there are people telling them to not even bother as they are not talented enough. I know this, if you don't even try, you have already failed.

I don't think we need to worry about warning people on this site that they could potentially fail in their endeavors. I think a bigger disservice would be to discourage kids who may have a legitimate chance if they only tried

As the father of an "average" player I've debated on if I should take off the "rose colored glasses" and start teaching my son about how life works.

I may look like a fool sometimes with the glasses on but I'm always going to tell him with hard work he can do what he wants. Somebody else can be the one to tell him he can't play anymore.

I've discovered the more somebody else tells him he can't do something the harder he works to prove them wrong. Frankly that trait alone may be what kept him on the HS team this year.

FWIW, I was trying to get my hands around what RZ1 might be reacting to. I know I would always encourage kids / parents to seek out every possible option they can for something that is important to them. Hearing "No" will not be fun. But, if it is something you really love, then you make them tell you no rather than walk away and wonder later if you could have done it...

Bas3balldad: I think pretty much everyone I know has at one time or another felt their child was better at some endeavor than they really were. I expect that comes with being a parent and I know I've been guilty of it from time to time. I've always encouraged my boys to strive to be the best.

My son said he wanted to include a few major D1s on his list of colleges. I have zero problem with that as long as he also has some on the opposite end to balance that out. If one or more of them (top tier to lower rack) are a good fit and want him to play, then he'll have choices to make...If none, then he'll still have choices - just different ones.

I'm sure it will all work out in the long run...while I'd love to fast forward to August 2011 to see where he's off to and how all of this ends up, I don't want to miss a single part of the journey. Whether it is over after HS or after a 20 year career in the Majors, the journey will eventually end...I'll just enjoy our time together and watching him play a game he loves for as long as I can...

quote:

Originally posted by 08Dad:
Another conference to consider is the Northwest Conference. The NWC is made up of D3 schools in Washington and Oregon. Academically there is a wide range of levels as well as a reasonably wide range of majors to chose from.

PM me if you would like more info. Between my son and my daughter, I think I have done a visit to nearly every school in the conference.

08 Dad, I sent you a PM reagarding NWC. Thanks!

Thanks for bumping this Ryanrod. It was good to read. Now I am left wondering if hwy380's son ever got recruited in any way. Like reading a novel with no ending.

I enjoyed reading it as well. It was interesting to me to see how my son's views about schools have changed over time.

Very interested to know how things turned out for OP.