Try to think through the effects of the new world in college baseball from the perspective of the players/recruits replaced by the transfers. Also admit that this is playing by the present rules and definitely is a sound approach to winning a national championship. Then add in the NIL money.
https://twitter.com/LSUbasebal...TGXivS57H8A&s=19
A whole new world.
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@Goosegg posted:Try to think through the effects of the new world in college baseball from the perspective of the players/recruits replaced by the transfers. Also admit that this is playing by the present rules and definitely is a sound approach to winning a national championship. Then add in the NIL money.
https://twitter.com/LSUbasebal...TGXivS57H8A&s=19
A whole new world.
I am sure that LSU used NIL to get many of the players to transfer, but I don't believe that it was the only reason why most wanted to transfer.
JMO
This is what everybody wanted - athletes being able to make money off their image. They heard all the stories of eating ramen and illegally accepting gifts because they had no money. Now that the kids can do whatever they want and go wherever they want everybody wants it gone.
While I was anti NIL, for this reason, I have always thought students should be free to transfer. It's their education, they should be able to get it wherever they want. Wouldn't be surprised if we start moving towards NIL deals that are contract based. Meaning you can't transfer to take another NIL deal.
I don't see how they could do that. An NIL is theoretically between an individual athlete and the entity that wants to pay him for the use of his NIL. I mean, of course I know that most of these are "companies" supported by alumni who are paying for "charitable appearances". So I guess they could try contracts where they tie the money to remaining at the school - as long as the athlete was performing well. And break the contract for injury or bad performance or bad behavior. But would athletes sign those contracts? The more I type, the more I think that the whole rotten system is going to collapse, sooner rather than later.
Not every D1 baseball program in the country is throwing money at athletes to come to play at their school, can't speak for other sports.
Some states have laws to protect both player and institution, others don't. Some are using NLI wisely to help athletes pay for tuition (not every school is funded), others are using NIL to get players to come to their program because that will mean more money for that program. I saw that at one school there will be an NIL payout when an athletes jersey or shirt is sold. I don't know how that will work. But that's fair. I like what Bar Stool is doing and I like how athletes get payouts from companies for being internet influencers. Football will be in full swing this weekend, which will bring in millions and millions of dollars. Share it.
I have no problem with it all, if done the right way for the right reasons.
JMO
I wasn't focusing on the NIL aspect; that is just a piece of the puzzle.
I was trying to make potential college recruits (and their parents) see how out of their control all their well-laid plans are in light of the landscape of the present day.
LSU (and its peers) recruits kids early - real early (9th grade, earlier if possible). How many of those 20+ "commits" (yes, 20 a class) will actually play a role at LSU? Well, that 18 year old in that class of 20 will need to compete not just against the remnant of the 20+ in the two/three classes above him - but compete against the absolute best transfer players in the country.
Fine, we say; the cream will rise to the top, competition is good. But each of those 20+ were the cream of their time. So, most will find homes in other programs. Which programs, you ask? Well, LSU peer programs, mid-majors, JUCO powerhouses. What happens to the players in those programs displaced by the LSU former commits/players transfering/matriculating to the new college? It trickles down from there, eventually impacting virtually EVERY D1 program in the game of musical chairs, but with players.
If we were discussing professional baseball, that's fine and understood as the rules of the road - perform or walk; but the underpinning of college ball is SUPPOSED to be getting a reasonable education.
I don't know how a family navigates this new world; the LSUs are effectively the same as unaffiliated minor league teams, building a brand new roster EVERY year - while simultaneously stuffing the pipeline with HS dreamers who live on hopium and wear their LSU gear through the HS halls.
The blame isn't with LSU - its playing within the rules, bringing in heavy weight coaches to teach (note: NOT DEVELOP) these rental players. But, parents and players need to realize that the kid is a simple commodity to most D1 programs - fungible, replaceable, transitory.
Anyone thinking kids get a real college education under these circumstances is seeing an illusion.
While the current rules allow for the annual reconstruction of power teams, that is totally inconsistent with any real education for most kids. (For example, just think about transferring credits.)
If a family values the educational aspect of college - and not just giving it lip service - the new world is very difficult to navigate.
What has been created - IMO - is a system which has totally lost and failed in the mission: a reasonable college education. What has been created is a business where players - who are supposed to be students - are merely disposable workers, cogs in a machine, who are used and disposed of at will.
In its desire to dismantle the NCAA oversight and overbearing ways, college coaches got their dream: disposable gladiators to whom nothing is owed and from whom everything is expected.
End of rant.
What percentage of college athletes can expect to make any significant income on NIL?
If would guess many could make a few hundred bucks a year but I doubt very many of them could make a lot of money except for future first round draft pick level of talent players.
I think NIL is a good thing but most won't make significant if any money from that.
@Dominik85 posted:What percentage of college athletes can expect to make any significant income on NIL?
If would guess many could make a few hundred bucks a year but I doubt very many of them could make a lot of money except for future first round draft pick level of talent players.
I think NIL is a good thing but most won't make significant if any money from that.
This granular reality is lost on many players; but dreams live forever.
@Goosegg posted:I wasn't focusing on the NIL aspect; that is just a piece of the puzzle.
I was trying to make potential college recruits (and their parents) see how out of their control all their well-laid plans are in light of the landscape of the present day.
LSU (and its peers) recruits kids early - real early (9th grade, earlier if possible). How many of those 20+ "commits" (yes, 20 a class) will actually play a role at LSU? Well, that 18 year old in that class of 20 will need to compete not just against the remnant of the 20+ in the two/three classes above him - but compete against the absolute best transfer players in the country.
Fine, we say; the cream will rise to the top, competition is good. But each of those 20+ were the cream of their time. So, most will find homes in other programs. Which programs, you ask? Well, LSU peer programs, mid-majors, JUCO powerhouses. What happens to the players in those programs displaced by the LSU former commits/players transfering/matriculating to the new college? It trickles down from there, eventually impacting virtually EVERY D1 program in the game of musical chairs, but with players.
If we were discussing professional baseball, that's fine and understood as the rules of the road - perform or walk; but the underpinning of college ball is SUPPOSED to be getting a reasonable education.
I don't know how a family navigates this new world; the LSUs are effectively the same as unaffiliated minor league teams, building a brand new roster EVERY year - while simultaneously stuffing the pipeline with HS dreamers who live on hopium and wear their LSU gear through the HS halls.
The blame isn't with LSU - its playing within the rules, bringing in heavy weight coaches to teach (note: NOT DEVELOP) these rental players. But, parents and players need to realize that the kid is a simple commodity to most D1 programs - fungible, replaceable, transitory.
Anyone thinking kids get a real college education under these circumstances is seeing an illusion.
While the current rules allow for the annual reconstruction of power teams, that is totally inconsistent with any real education for most kids. (For example, just think about transferring credits.)
If a family values the educational aspect of college - and not just giving it lip service - the new world is very difficult to navigate.
What has been created - IMO - is a system which has totally lost and failed in the mission: a reasonable college education. What has been created is a business where players - who are supposed to be students - are merely disposable workers, cogs in a machine, who are used and disposed of at will.
In its desire to dismantle the NCAA oversight and overbearing ways, college coaches got their dream: disposable gladiators to whom nothing is owed and from whom everything is expected.
End of rant.
Have you been reading my mail, sir? Many of us have been saying this for the past 2 years. And I for one have been amazed at how many HS players (and parents) refuse to recognize what is going on despite the facts being right there in front of them. They continue to waste money on showcase events that play to the wrong audience, chase numbers instead of skills, pay for scouting service ratings, and essentially plod along as tho nothing has changed. It’s very frustrating to watch for those of us that try to help kids get placed. IMO never have player expectations been more unrealistic. It’s almost as if they have been brainwashed by the PG, PBR, and VTool media and can’t see the truth. Hmmmmm? Brainwashed by media ….….. I have seen a lot of that somewhere else too. Just can’t quite remember where. Oh well, it will come to me.
@Dominik85 posted:What percentage of college athletes can expect to make any significant income on NIL?
If would guess many could make a few hundred bucks a year but I doubt very many of them could make a lot of money except for future first round draft pick level of talent players.
I think NIL is a good thing but most won't make significant if any money from that.
I imagine some super "hot" guy will figure out how to make some serious coin off their looks like that LSU gymnast. Both my teen boys are well aware of her
My crystal ball says that within 5 years we'll go from 300 D1 programs, 64 teams in the playoffs and 8 CWS participants (some of whom are Cinderella) to about 20 elite programs and a totally revamped BCS-style 8 team post season. D1 baseball as we've known it is over.
Completely agree that the baseball (probably most college sports) recruiting world has completely changed. Even the athlete’s campus(es) experience is probably going to be drastically altered.
Agree with much of the detail that adbono shared. Much of what I see on the ground is inline with what adbono has shared in the past.
Most of these changes really are driven in large part to the change of the transfer portal. Studs and developing studs are getting more then one bite at the apple. This will negatively effect former or non-developing studs.
Where I differ is on NIL. Most of the comments have had a underlying assumption which I think we will find to be false. The underlying assumption is that the NIL will be used for athletes to monetize themselves by selling widgets like professional athletes have always done. I propose that is wrong, what we will find is that boosters will find ways to use NIL to get kids on campus to better their teams, who cares if they sell widgets. All these multimillion dollar facilities that used to attract kids where paid for by boosters. Now boosters can skip the middle man and just pay the kid. This is actually a good thing. We have all complained about 11.7 for 35 slots. Now the market can take care of the issue. Yes it will be more capitalistic, and college sports will look different, but that might just be a good thing.
After just going through the recruiting process again with my son, the big NIL difference maker, especially in the SEC, is the collective for the school. It was mentioned earlier about "how much will these kids actually make, a few hundred". I will tell you this, most of the big schools are not (and are not supposed to be) giving a set in stone number of how much you will get if you come to that school. But they are giving you a range of what the NIL income was for their team. The basement for a lot of these schools was $6k-$8k and that was in part because of the school's collective.
@Around_The_Horn posted:We have all complained about 11.7 for 35 slots. Now the market can take care of the issue.
You are going to hear a lot more about "full rides" to schools because schools are selling the NIL money to bridge the gap between athletic money, academic money, and the cost of going to school. Also, when athletic money is not available, combining academic money and NIL becomes a selling point during the recruiting process. NIL has definitely become a game changer, but it is like the wild west now.
Go in with your eyes open. That's my only advice. Ask for things in writing. I know at our school, 3 athletes that had summer surgeries were asked to give up scholarships. One did, because he was getting a couple thousand a month in NIL. Guess what, when they handed out the NIL contracts this year, he didn't get one. No warning. I wasn't sure if it was just happening in a few schools, but when my son visited his PT, the PT brought up 2 guys from another part of the country (P5) who were told that they were injured and the program didn't want to waste a scholarship on them during a year they couldn't compete, so to move on. There aren't a ton of schools going to the portal for a guy who just had surgery.
Well, this is exactly the kind of thing I mean. In the business world, no-one would bat an eye at taking money away from injured players. Colleges are supposed to be different. If they are not, then the sports teams should not be part of the college.
Personally I am leaning towards any school with an NIL collective (i.e. not just individuals monetizing their personality) disengaging the teams completely from the school. Allow them to keep the "brand name" for a fee, but then just run them like businesses, and pay the athletes with booster money. Don't make the athletes be students. Call them what they are. Would fans care if the "Ohio State" football team players were students? or the "LSU" baseball players?
@Around_The_Horn posted:Now boosters can skip the middle man and just pay the kid. This is actually a good thing. We have all complained about 11.7 for 35 slots. Now the market can take care of the issue. Yes it will be more capitalistic, and college sports will look different, but that might just be a good thing.
Just don't call it "college sports" because that's not what it is.
@ARCEKU21 posted:You are going to hear a lot more about "full rides" to schools because schools are selling the NIL money to bridge the gap between athletic money, academic money, and the cost of going to school. Also, when athletic money is not available, combining academic money and NIL becomes a selling point during the recruiting process. NIL has definitely become a game changer, but it is like the wild west now.
I am not sure that schools can outright hand anyone $$. It's all done through collectives. All teams should have their own collectives.
Here is a scenerio. The coach calls the collective and says I have a player that needs $ to help pay for tuition or housing. The collective has been approved as will be the company employing the player. The player has to report income and pays taxes. This is a great way to help out students. It especially helps the ones who didn't play in 2020.
I am not 100% on who pays the player. But this is how it should be. Get students that need the $$s to help pay school costs, not get a new car to drive for the season. JMO
I am not 100% on the above. But I did read that it is against NCAA NIL rules for a coach to offer money to recruits or transfers to come play at their program.
And yes it is like the wild west but I think in time it will work out.
Well, the particularly rotten thing about this is the collective is entirely unsupervised by anyone. The possibility of fraud, corruption, bribery, you name it, is off the charts.
Collectives are the problem. Under the wording of NIL they are illegal. They are not used for Name, Image or Likeness. They are just giving players money with no use of their Name Image or Likeness. Here's your money. LSU brought in 6 guys and had 2 others signed but they went draft. Those 6 will guarantee take someone's position. And they were paid for with a collective. They are doing nothing to earn their money and no one is using their Name Image or Likeness to give them money. This is the problem i have. Yes, UT is also doing it in football and basketball and I have a problem with it. If you are paying a kid for an advertisement, a meet and greet, an appearance, selling their jersey or tshirt or cap I'm fine with it. They are getting paid for their NIL. But not just giving it. But once the paste is out of the tube there is no putting it back. The richest programs can buy a Natty and the poor ones won't be able to compete. It will take a few years to develop but it will come to pass.
The Transfer portal has changed recruiting because who wants to bring someone in and teach them when you can get someone who has already proven it on a high level. Only a few MLB teams develop through their minor league systems. The powerhouses bring in the others.
@anotherparent posted:Well, the particularly rotten thing about this is the collective is entirely unsupervised by anyone. The possibility of fraud, corruption, bribery, you name it, is off the charts.
This is not true. Some states made legit laws to protect the player and collectives as to what you can and cannot do.
Others did not, can you guess which ones?
@PitchingFan the collectives may be illegally operating just handing out $$ but the school will pay the price if they were given money just to come play.
That's a quid pro quo and pay for play and I suspect when the NCAA decides to clamp down, those programs will lose scholarships.
@anotherparent posted:I don't see how they could do that. An NIL is theoretically between an individual athlete and the entity that wants to pay him for the use of his NIL. I mean, of course I know that most of these are "companies" supported by alumni who are paying for "charitable appearances". So I guess they could try contracts where they tie the money to remaining at the school - as long as the athlete was performing well. And break the contract for injury or bad performance or bad behavior. But would athletes sign those contracts? The more I type, the more I think that the whole rotten system is going to collapse, sooner rather than later.
Non compete.
This is still a “boys club” in many ways. Baseball is a small world. There are a lot of programs with Coaches that are either operating in the gray or have crossed over, but no one is going to say it and no one is going to say names.
I agree TPM. When the wrong school does it or the NCAA gets an itch they want to scratch they will shut it down but I think it will take a while. I'm sure somehow these guys are doing something they can try to call NIL but it is not a clear one like most. Again the collectives are only paying less than 1%. The others are having to work real hard for any NIL money they are getting. I told son the other day he could probably get a part-time job that would pay better than the NIL deals he is getting but it is networking and preparing him for the future so it is part of his education. He is learning to talk to business men and sell himself and all the meet and greets have to be good for him in the long run. Plus he is smart enough to work it to get free golf, free cookies, free mattress and pillow, free lawyer representation (hope he never needs it), free sunflower seeds, and free clothing. His podcast is great for teaching him how to talk on the air from the other side if he ever wants to do broadcasting.
@PitchingFan posted:I agree TPM. When the wrong school does it or the NCAA gets an itch they want to scratch they will shut it down but I think it will take a while. I'm sure somehow these guys are doing something they can try to call NIL but it is not a clear one like most. Again the collectives are only paying less than 1%. The others are having to work real hard for any NIL money they are getting. I told son the other day he could probably get a part-time job that would pay better than the NIL deals he is getting but it is networking and preparing him for the future so it is part of his education. He is learning to talk to business men and sell himself and all the meet and greets have to be good for him in the long run. Plus he is smart enough to work it to get free golf, free cookies, free mattress and pillow, free lawyer representation (hope he never needs it), free sunflower seeds, and free clothing. His podcast is great for teaching him how to talk on the air from the other side if he ever wants to do broadcasting.
That’s a good take on the situation. Btw, speaking well on air isn’t a requisite for broadcasting baseball games. Eduardo Perez and Ben McDonald have proven that. It’s all about connections and who you know. Eduardo Perez and Ben McDonald have proven that too.
I don’t think the NCAA is what many of you think it is. Just like the title of this thread, this is the world today!!!
@anotherparent posted:Well, this is exactly the kind of thing I mean. In the business world, no-one would bat an eye at taking money away from injured players. Colleges are supposed to be different. If they are not, then the sports teams should not be part of the college.
Personally I am leaning towards any school with an NIL collective (i.e. not just individuals monetizing their personality) disengaging the teams completely from the school. Allow them to keep the "brand name" for a fee, but then just run them like businesses, and pay the athletes with booster money. Don't make the athletes be students. Call them what they are. Would fans care if the "Ohio State" football team players were students? or the "LSU" baseball players?
Just don't call it "college sports" because that's not what it is.
Strongly agree. Its long past the point of many of the top players being actual students or anyone caring. The value of the school is in the brand and the equity that is built into the brand. So why can't other brands sponsor teams? How long before the Duke Blue Devils are playing the Nike Stars?
Athletes could become employees of the university. Then they have the option of taking classes free of charge or not. Obviously, this would only be for higher profile programs.
Using the old football classifications across the board in all sports there would be a big divide in D1. A majority of D1 programs and most sports aren’t major revenue generators. They would become D1-AA programs.
Some might are this makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. It’s already occurring. Look at the new Big 10 tv contract.
@K9 posted:The value of the school is in the brand and the equity that is built into the brand. So why can't other brands sponsor teams? How long before the Duke Blue Devils are playing the Nike Stars?
@K9
I apologize for not understanding your point.
Nike and Adidas are the largest suppliers of athletic gear to D1 athletic programs. Everything from their shirts, shorts, shoes, uniforms has their logo on it. Not only do they supply athletic gear, coaches have contracts and get lots of $$ money to spend for themselves on gear besides what is provided at work.
Yet athletes never received a dime for wearing the sponsors gear. Now some of that has changed and I have no issue with athletes receiving money, but more so for what reasons.
JMO
@anotherparent posted:Just don't call it "college sports" because that's not what it is.
Let's be honest. It quit being "college sports" a long time ago.
It will be interesting to see how the collectives affect sports at certain colleges. I am an Arkansas fan and have made a lot of connections through baseball. Arkansas NIL in baseball hasn't been very good so far and I think the weak portal haul is a sign of that. The money is going to basketball and football. I doubt there are many schools that have enough booster money to fund three sports for NIL deals. The "word" at Arkansas is that every athlete will get 25k a year through the Hunt collective but that has been the "word" for about 6 months now. Football is king in the SEC and basketball is on the rise with good coaches at most schools. I just wonder if there is enough serious money to go around for all of the sports. A&M with it's massive booster base is probably in line to compete the most.
What happens to the incredible facilities upgrades if boosters are giving their money directly to collectives to be paid to players? Are boosters going pay to upgrade facilities and buy players?
@TerribleBPthrower posted:What happens to the incredible facilities upgrades if boosters are giving their money directly to collectives to be paid to players? Are boosters going pay to upgrade facilities and buy players?
Both.
Some of these people have crazy money and love their university and love to put their name on stuff.
@PitchingFan posted:Some of these people have crazy money and love their university and love to put their name on stuff.
Is it true that a 2023 football player has an 8 mil deal to bring him to UT? Now that's crazy
Isn't that pay to play? I just don't get that one.
Yes I think it is 11 million but it is from a collective. I'm not a fan of it. But remember I'm only a UT baseball fan not a fan of UT football or basketball. My son might be. I'm actually a UGA and FSU football fan. I think it should be illegal but I'm sure they have a way that makes it not pay to play like Alabama saying their QB had to send a certain number of tweets or social media posts after each game which made it not pay to play. I hope they stop it. But I don't see it coming anytime soon.
@PitchingFan The article mentioned how some have found ways to use NIL as an aboveboard form of pay for play.
@TPM posted:@K9
I apologize for not understanding your point.
Nike and Adidas are the largest suppliers of athletic gear to D1 athletic programs. Everything from their shirts, shorts, shoes, uniforms has their logo on it. Not only do they supply athletic gear, coaches have contracts and get lots of $$ money to spend for themselves on gear besides what is provided at work.
Yet athletes never received a dime for wearing the sponsors gear. Now some of that has changed and I have no issue with athletes receiving money, but more so for what reasons.
JMO
@TPM
Just trying to build off of the excellent post by @anotherparent . As college athletics become less and less about college, wondering if some other sponsors get involved. Nike probably a bad example because as you aptly point out they are already getting enriched by the current model.
@TPM posted:Is it true that a 2023 football player has an 8 mil deal to bring him to UT? Now that's crazy
Isn't that pay to play? I just don't get that one.
Well yes, it's just circumvented pay to play. I believe it was posted here a few months ago but there was an article about a group of donors (a mini collective) giving players at a P5 school money from a small business or a foundation of some sort and in exchange they had to go to one event per semester but could go to as many as they wanted. Only one was required.
I don't like getting too into this too much but there were a lot of people who thought emotionally and didn't consider the path it might delve down ($ influencing players to go to and leave schools). People were naive enough to believe the star RB could make a few bucks signing autographs at the mall for a few hours on a Saturday in the offseason and not have to eat ramen anymore. It is going to render whatever was left of the "education" portion of the student athlete experience to be completely useless.
There has always been a significant percentage of college athletes that are not concerned about getting their degree. When I graduated from Texas A&M in 1979 I was one of 10 seniors that year. 5 got degrees and 5 didn’t. That made no sense to me at the time. But my how times have changed. A college degree isn’t worth the same today as it was 40 years ago. Theoretically players today can make more money off NIL and other side deals than many of their non-athletic peers trying to enter a terrible job market. I see a lot of critical comments about NIL and it’s impact on college athletics. And I will be the first to admit that it’s out of control at the moment. But college athletes have been screwed for decades so let them make hay while they can w/o a bunch of hate. It will come to an end as soon as the NCAA can figure out a way to have all the NIL money funneled to them. And you can bet your ass they are working on that right now.
@Around_The_Horn posted:I don’t think the NCAA is what many of you think it is. Just like the title of this thread, this is the world today!!!
Instantly lost me when they started with the hysterics of the health risks of covid on 17 year old athletes in peak condition and health. Getting in the car to go on their visit is significantly more dangerous for their health than getting covid. That's not political, it's a fact. Getting past the virtue signaling...
Everybody hates the NCAA - and they do not do themselves any favors to drown out the noise. But is this not a good thing? Has to be a better way to penalize schools for the sins of the former regime than to inflict punishment on the current guys.
Imagine being a freshman on the Penn State football team in 2013 and not being able to play in a bowl game your entire time there - and not being able to transfer out because of something that happened in 1998, probably 3 years after you were born.
I think it's great when athletes get to make money from signing jerseys or having their pictures in video games or getting a cut of jerseys with their numbers. I think it's great if they can use their status to have a podcast or social media presence and earn money from it. I think it's great if they can advertise products, earning what the company making the products thinks they are worth. I'm all for capitalism and athletes monetizing their fame at market value.
But as long as the football teams are part of universities, I think the universities (i.e. coaches) should control any payments to players. They already give scholarships. If universities want to pay their players, either from donations or from media revenue, then do it. But donors with funds outside of any oversight, giving money in return for one appearance at a charity, just allows way too many different types of corruption, and basically makes the players the employees of someone other than the team.
@anotherparent posted:I think it's great when athletes get to make money from signing jerseys or having their pictures in video games or getting a cut of jerseys with their numbers. I think it's great if they can use their status to have a podcast or social media presence and earn money from it. I think it's great if they can advertise products, earning what the company making the products thinks they are worth. I'm all for capitalism and athletes monetizing their fame at market value.
But as long as the football teams are part of universities, I think the universities (i.e. coaches) should control any payments to players. They already give scholarships. If universities want to pay their players, either from donations or from media revenue, then do it. But donors with funds outside of any oversight, giving money in return for one appearance at a charity, just allows way too many different types of corruption, and basically makes the players the employees of someone other than the team.
I would be all for that. That’s not what’s happening. A lot of it is paying players to show up. The coaches shouldn’t be involved at all in my opinion.
I guess that I was so naive that I thought that collectives would be created to help athletes learn how to start and manage a business using their NIL, which in many places it has. I never thought many would be created to make million dollar deals... to one person. But there is still a lot of good stuff going on.
@adbono, I strongly agree with many points that you brought up in your post. Agree that college athletes have been screwed over the years so get it while you can, just hoping they would create collectives within reason. Giving 8mil to one recruit who hasn't set foot on campus is, well sort of outrageous.
JMO
@TPM, no doubt that 8mil to any one person is ridiculous. Unless it’s to me.
I find it amazing that so many good intended people didn’t see the problems with NIL…it was going to change college sports (not for the better) forever the moment it was approved. The stuff you see today and find “shocking” or “appalling” is just the beginning. In 5 to10 years you won’t even recognize it,
you can’t put the genie back in the bottle so we are going to find out for better or worse.
This is a good article.
To baseballhs's point. I think it's reasonable for coaches/universities not to be involved if an athlete with a great moustache, for example, advertises hair trimmers. Or, for the athletic department to have a group that helps the athletes do that.
If I were a coach, I would be quite nervous about a collective that took in donations from boosters and paid money to athletes. They have to be working with the coaches - otherwise how do they know how much to give each athlete? A group of donors deciding on their own to give a QB $8mil? Seems like a blurry line, though.
It is all blurry, that's the problem.
I originally became interested due to Florida football 4,5 star recruits losing interest. Billy Napier was hired and he had a pressor and indicated that the program needed to get these guys some money. All of a sudden Florida has commitments from 4 star recruits. I don't know what has changed, but Florida has new collectives and each has different objectives.
Until the NCAA and states make agreements expect the crazy stuff to continue.
@TPM posted:It is all blurry, that's the problem.
Until the NCAA and states make agreements expect the crazy stuff to continue.
I agree and this will take years and many of them…and that is assuming the states agree, I feel pretty certain they won’t! It also assumes they will do it well which again hopes here are not high.
this is going to be a shit show for a long time
From the article... "Although a trend of deregulation is unifying the approach to NIL in various states somewhat, there remains a patchwork of state laws in place, resulting in non-uniform NIL policy across the United States. Such inconsistency creates confusion with respect to what NIL activities are permissible and what NIL activities are prohibited."
How on earth can an athletic league, in this case NCAA D1 sports, operate when each of the member teams play by different rules? This is crazy...
@old_school posted:I agree and this will take years and many of them…and that is assuming the states agree, I feel pretty certain they won’t! It also assumes they will do it well which again hopes here are not high.
this is going to be a shit show for a long time
All states have their own individual laws, for example no state income tax in Florida. So that means that the NCAA has to deal with making individual laws with all states and that should have been the importance of the initial collectives, which was working with student athletes to learn best business practices and how to market themselves as a business.
I guess that original intent wasn't communicated and programs are going to do what they want because no one can say, it's illegal, unless the state has intended it to be that way.
@Smitty28 posted:From the article... "Although a trend of deregulation is unifying the approach to NIL in various states somewhat, there remains a patchwork of state laws in place, resulting in non-uniform NIL policy across the United States. Such inconsistency creates confusion with respect to what NIL activities are permissible and what NIL activities are prohibited."
How on earth can an athletic league, in this case NCAA D1 sports, operate when each of the member teams play by different rules? This is crazy...
Good point. There is chatter of conference rules, could be per sport.
People act like football and basketball players are starving. Those people need to tour a P5 cafeteria for football and basketball. It is like a fine food restaurant. All free.
@Smitty28 posted:From the article... "Although a trend of deregulation is unifying the approach to NIL in various states somewhat, there remains a patchwork of state laws in place, resulting in non-uniform NIL policy across the United States. Such inconsistency creates confusion with respect to what NIL activities are permissible and what NIL activities are prohibited."
How on earth can an athletic league, in this case NCAA D1 sports, operate when each of the member teams play by different rules? This is crazy...
It seems they will make it even more confusing by getting the government involved, info is being sent to Tuberville and Manchin
@CollegebaseballInsights posted:It seems they will make it even more confusing by getting the government involved, info is being sent to Tuberville and Manchin
They don't need those 2 involved.
@Around_The_Horn posted:Completely agree that the baseball (probably most college sports) recruiting world has completely changed. Even the athlete’s campus(es) experience is probably going to be drastically altered.
Agree with much of the detail that adbono shared. Much of what I see on the ground is inline with what adbono has shared in the past.
Most of these changes really are driven in large part to the change of the transfer portal. Studs and developing studs are getting more then one bite at the apple. This will negatively effect former or non-developing studs.
Where I differ is on NIL. Most of the comments have had a underlying assumption which I think we will find to be false. The underlying assumption is that the NIL will be used for athletes to monetize themselves by selling widgets like professional athletes have always done. I propose that is wrong, what we will find is that boosters will find ways to use NIL to get kids on campus to better their teams, who cares if they sell widgets. All these multimillion dollar facilities that used to attract kids where paid for by boosters. Now boosters can skip the middle man and just pay the kid. This is actually a good thing. We have all complained about 11.7 for 35 slots. Now the market can take care of the issue. Yes it will be more capitalistic, and college sports will look different, but that might just be a good thing.
Wouldn't that be illegal that boosters act as fake sponsors to buy athletes into the college program?
https://www.sportingnews.com/u...vs5a9nwsdv1bfl2lef8w
"NCAA recruiting rules preclude boosters from recruiting and/or providing benefits to prospective student-athletes."
@Dominik85 posted:Wouldn't that be illegal that boosters act as fake sponsors to buy athletes into the college program?
https://www.sportingnews.com/u...vs5a9nwsdv1bfl2lef8w
"NCAA recruiting rules preclude boosters from recruiting and/or providing benefits to prospective student-athletes."
Oh, puhlease! Boosters are going to do whatever they want. They always have and they always will. The smarter ones just consult with legal counsel before they act.
@Dominik85 posted:Wouldn't that be illegal that boosters act as fake sponsors to buy athletes into the college program?
https://www.sportingnews.com/u...vs5a9nwsdv1bfl2lef8w
"NCAA recruiting rules preclude boosters from recruiting and/or providing benefits to prospective student-athletes."
In short agree with adbono.
But adding detail, really read the article you linked to. The three major quotes to focus upon:
1) The celebrated change to college athletics were clarified to schools Monday, as boosters (and shell companies acting in the interest of boosters) were prohibited from having contact from incoming college athletes or their families.
Focus on the “incoming college athletes”. It purposely excludes current athletes. Remember this is the same organization that does not allow coaches to contact HS players before September 1 of their junior year, but players commit before then all the time. They will figure this out.
2) But also, don't expect abusers of the early adoption of NIL to be punished.
No editorial needed.
3) The NCAA also made it clear in its governance statement this isn't to threaten eligibility of players.
Strengthens point 2. I’ve said this before, The NCAA is not what it used to be. The days of punishing and holding out players (Brian Bozworth, Reggie Bush) are long over. This is a big business and it is bad business punishing your stars.
If you wonder why this is happening, here is some reading for you.
@PitchingFan posted:People act like football and basketball players are starving. Those people need to tour a P5 cafeteria for football and basketball. It is like a fine food restaurant. All free.
This is what gets overlooked. Free tuition, free healthcare, free apparel, free training, free unlimited food, free housing, free everything. Or the players could accept a small stipend in exchange for forfeiting their housing and meal plan. Of course a lot of players made bad decisions and were eating ramen as a result. They take to twitter where the mob gets involved and the narrative becomes: NCAA makes billions while student athletes eat ramen in their dorm.
Now you give the players the ability to make money and people only want it done a certain way. If a booster wants to give somebody 8 million to come play at their school who cares. Why is signing posters at the mall or working a few camps ok but money in exhange for commitment not ok?
Too many people think with their emotions, not enough think with their heads.
Proposal for no tax deductions for donations to collectives:
@anotherparent posted:Proposal for no tax deductions for donations to collectives:
I can easily support eliminating deductions for these payments.
What type of tax advice/support do the players get? Are the players paid as a corp or 1099?
Compilation of NIL collectives for each University. Interesting read.
TPM,
how does the school determine which sports receive the money?
Bob
@Consultant posted:TPM,
how does the school determine which sports receive the money?
Which sports bring in the most money?
@Consultant posted:TPM,
how does the school determine which sports receive the money?
Bob
I don't think that the school determines who gets the money. I do believe that it is determined by the collective. Some are dedicated to just one or two sports others for every athlete. Some for those athletes in financial need.
If you are able to read, some are just created for female athletes.
I find it interesting that some of the football teams that spent the most are proving mediocre this year.
