TV ratings were up 97% this year going into the Championship series. I think that shows that people like the powerhouses, even if they are just watching in hopes that they lose. It also helped that there were some large TV markets with passionate fan bases in the CWS this year.
gunner34 posted:im not sure what is settled, last yr Big 12 had 3 teams make it to Omaha, yr before it was ACC teams in finals. I was shocked that SEC had only 10 Natl Championships before last night. Im pretty sure Pac 12 laps that easily, Texas has something like 40 appearances in Omaha by itself. yada yada yada. Congrats on a great year.
Yeah, USC has 12 titles itself, so it alone is still ahead of the SEC. But Teaching Elder makes a good point -- ancient history is ancient history.
One things about sheer numbers, though -- the SEC should win 50% more titles than the Big 12, because it has 50% more teams.
My thoughts on the topic....
1) If my kid wanted to be a professional baseball player (or professional athlete), would I want him to play in the SEC with some of the best coaches and competition? Absolutely, I would. Jim T proved that with his graphic.
2) Do I think the SEC has the most number of elite athletes on their top baseball teams? Yes
3) Does the overall SEC athleticism, depth and good coaching make up for a lot of the bad plays and decisions the players make? Absolutely. We've seen it over the last two+ weeks. There are many more disciplined and collaborative teams in the NCAA field that cant match the SEC combination of lots of talent and lots of depth. They overcome their mistakes with athleticism.
4) In general, why are the SEC fans crazy and over the top? They like college sports more than professional sports, and there are many more colleges in that region than professional sports. Atlanta, Charlotte, New Orleans have not been successful major professional sports cities. Tallahassee and Gainesville are north florida so that takes the Miami (ACC) market out.
It is a cut throat athletic conference, and that is why these coaches will do anything to get an edge including recruiting thugs. Richard Petty said it best...."If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin"
As always, JMO.
Fenway, I think you pretty much nailed it. Especially on point 4.
Why the thug comments?? I guess I'm not paying close enough attention to the player's off the field infractions. Did I miss a story or two?
Jim T. posted:Why the thug comments?? I guess I'm not paying close enough attention to the player's off the field infractions. Did I miss a story or two?
I dont get the thug comment either.
Not sure if anyone caught the remarks about teams that recruit for championships. That would be what powerhouse teams do.
Teaching Elder posted:As long as Vandy, Florida and LSU continue to bring jailbait thugs into their baseball programs and maintain substandard academic programs, the SEC will be contenders.
Pretty serious accusations there.
JCG posted:Teaching Elder posted:As long as Vandy, Florida and LSU continue to bring jailbait thugs into their baseball programs and maintain substandard academic programs, the SEC will be contenders.
Pretty serious accusations there.
Please give us facts before you make statements like this.
I was being facetious, given some other's posts here suggesting that the SEC has the market cornered on wayward athletes and low academic standards. To that, Vandy, Fla. and Georgia all say, "Hi." Texas A&M is not academic slouch either.
Well, if we're talking national academic reputations, not baseball or football, in fairness some of the other Power 5 are ahead of the SEC. Using the current US News rankings as shorthand:
- ACC: Duke (#8), Notre Dame (#15 (tie)), Virginia (#24 (tie)), Wake Forest (#27 (tie)), UNC (#30), BC (#31), Georgia Tech (#34)
- B1G: Northwestern (#12), Michigan (#27 (tie)), Wisconsin (#44 (tie)), Illinois (#44 (tie)), Penn State (#50 (tie))
- SEC: Vanderbilt (#15 (tie)), Florida (#50 (tie))
- PAC12: Stanford (#5), Cal (#20), USC (#23), UCLA (#24 (tie))
You know Florida had a 29 man World Series roster. We actually know every one of those 29 players. Between them they had attended 451 Perfect Game events. I can honestly say, I don't know of one player that even remotely would be described a thug. Pretty much the same for LSU and most of the top baseball programs in the country.
There are many reasons why the SEC is arguably the #1 conference. Start with the climate and then check the facilities along with attendance. These things are very desirable to the best HS players.
ACC, Pac 12, Big 12 are all great and there are other great conferences. But "top to bottom" we see more top players going to SEC schools than any other conference. LSU or Florida neither had an easy time winning conference games. If you take the top two or three from any of the big conferences it will be fairly equal. Then there are great programs that can compete with anyone, but they are in a bit lower level conference.
There really shouldn't be anything wrong with the truth. Climate, Facilities, attendance, budgets, recruiting, draft, MLB players, etc., you cant just ignore all of that. However, I really believe Oregon State was the best team this year. However, it's baseball and the best team doesn't always win. You can have a lot of baseball talent without having a bunch of thugs. Maybe it is different in football.
2019Dad posted:Well, if we're talking national academic reputations, not baseball or football, in fairness some of the other Power 5 are ahead of the SEC. Using the current US News rankings as shorthand:
- ACC: Duke (#8), Notre Dame (#15 (tie)), Virginia (#24 (tie)), Wake Forest (#27 (tie)), UNC (#30), BC (#31), Georgia Tech (#34)
- B1G: Northwestern (#12), Michigan (#27 (tie)), Wisconsin (#44 (tie)), Illinois (#44 (tie)), Penn State (#50 (tie))
- SEC: Vanderbilt (#15 (tie)), Florida (#50 (tie))
- PAC12: Stanford (#5), Cal (#20), USC (#23), UCLA (#24 (tie))
But they arent thugs! My word, we have websters here whose children have attended these schools, played or play or will play for SEC teams.
TPM posted:2019Dad posted:Well, if we're talking national academic reputations, not baseball or football, in fairness some of the other Power 5 are ahead of the SEC. Using the current US News rankings as shorthand:
- ACC: Duke (#8), Notre Dame (#15 (tie)), Virginia (#24 (tie)), Wake Forest (#27 (tie)), UNC (#30), BC (#31), Georgia Tech (#34)
- B1G: Northwestern (#12), Michigan (#27 (tie)), Wisconsin (#44 (tie)), Illinois (#44 (tie)), Penn State (#50 (tie))
- SEC: Vanderbilt (#15 (tie)), Florida (#50 (tie))
- PAC12: Stanford (#5), Cal (#20), USC (#23), UCLA (#24 (tie))
But they arent thugs! My word, we have websters here whose children have attended these schools, played or play or will play for SEC teams.
Agreed! I never said anything about thugs or anything close to that. Nor do I think that. I was just replying to Teaching Elder's comment about academics.
2019Dad posted:TPM posted:2019Dad posted:Well, if we're talking national academic reputations, not baseball or football, in fairness some of the other Power 5 are ahead of the SEC. Using the current US News rankings as shorthand:
- ACC: Duke (#8), Notre Dame (#15 (tie)), Virginia (#24 (tie)), Wake Forest (#27 (tie)), UNC (#30), BC (#31), Georgia Tech (#34)
- B1G: Northwestern (#12), Michigan (#27 (tie)), Wisconsin (#44 (tie)), Illinois (#44 (tie)), Penn State (#50 (tie))
- SEC: Vanderbilt (#15 (tie)), Florida (#50 (tie))
- PAC12: Stanford (#5), Cal (#20), USC (#23), UCLA (#24 (tie))
But they arent thugs! My word, we have websters here whose children have attended these schools, played or play or will play for SEC teams.
Agreed! I never said anything about thugs or anything close to that. Nor do I think that. I was just replying to Teaching Elder's comment about academics.
I know your intention, I was pointing out that because their academics werent as strong, it didnt make them thugs.
I cant speak for football, but the comment was totally uncalled for, facetious or not.
I like looking at lists of accomplishments in these types of discussions - and so I went to the simplest set of lists I could find. But first, I want to stipulate that I believe the SEC was the strongest conference this year, as the Big South was last year 
- Congrats to Florida and to LSU. I have met Coach Maneiri (had dinner with him actually) and liked him a lot. Both he and Coach O'Sullivan clearly know what they're doing.
Onto the lists:
What I see in these lists, spanning all of CWS history is the following.
- The Pac12 has the most championships, 17. Next is the SEC at 11. LSU is tied for the 2nd most titles (6). USC is first with twice as many - 12. If you group all of the current Pac12 schools into the equation even if they weren't in the Pac12 when they won some of their titles (e.g. ASU, Arizona), then the Pac12 number is 28!!
- The SEC puts more teams into the CWS at one time more often than any other conference - but a relatively recent phenomena - Pac12ers would say some of that may be due to SE bias in the selection - more teams, more chances for appearance in the finals
- Historically, the SEC only has the 7th best team (tie) in CWS appearances (LSU)
- SEC only has the 8th best team in CWS wins (LSU again) - the Pac12 has 4 of the top 7 teams in that category - if you wanna talk about historical depth
- SEC only the 5th best team (LSU) in CWS finals appearances - the Pac12 has 3 of the top 4 - there's that depth thing again
I dunno - I would agree the SEC was the best conference this year. And I would agree if someone wants to say that LSU is one of the best 7 or 8 programs ever, maybe one of the best 3 or 4 if you count titles (tied for 2nd with 6). But I'm not sure that I buy that its the best college baseball conference in totality. But I could buy that the Pac12 is the best baseball conference...ever. 
TPM posted:2019Dad posted:TPM posted:2019Dad posted:Well, if we're talking national academic reputations, not baseball or football, in fairness some of the other Power 5 are ahead of the SEC. Using the current US News rankings as shorthand:
- ACC: Duke (#8), Notre Dame (#15 (tie)), Virginia (#24 (tie)), Wake Forest (#27 (tie)), UNC (#30), BC (#31), Georgia Tech (#34)
- B1G: Northwestern (#12), Michigan (#27 (tie)), Wisconsin (#44 (tie)), Illinois (#44 (tie)), Penn State (#50 (tie))
- SEC: Vanderbilt (#15 (tie)), Florida (#50 (tie))
- PAC12: Stanford (#5), Cal (#20), USC (#23), UCLA (#24 (tie))
But they arent thugs! My word, we have websters here whose children have attended these schools, played or play or will play for SEC teams.
Agreed! I never said anything about thugs or anything close to that. Nor do I think that. I was just replying to Teaching Elder's comment about academics.
I know your intention, I was pointing out that because their academics werent as strong, it didnt make them thugs.
I cant speak for football, but the comment was totally uncalled for, facetious or not.
Let's pump the brakes a little here. I am a proud graduate of a SEC member institution. Far be it from me to legitimately make a disparaging argument against the conference. I was making a facetious argument based on what some other posters had stated, e.g., SEC criminals and lack of dedication to academics. I even listed a couple of the conference's top academic schools in order that it might become even more clear that I was not being serious.
For the record, the SEC has a strong academic game. Most schools have made a concerted effort to improve. My school wanted to grow in population and quality of students. It started recruiting out of Cincinnati and the North East. ( I park behind some frat houses for basketball games. Frat parties used to be pretty little southern belles. Now they look like an episode of Jersey Shore.) My son has good grades and a good ACT score, but I don't know if he could get in there these days. UGA? For-get-about-it! Kids are supra 4.0 and high 20s low 30s on the ACT. Florida? Same. Vandy? Good luck!
Don't pretend the SEC is academic backwater.
The SEC in general has an advantage in recruiting, Vandy we have all read about how they get around the 11.7. arkansas, lsu, Georgia probabably Alabama now can get grants for players that had a 3.0 or higher grade point avg and put those kids on academic scholarships, LSU coach is on record saying it adds probably at least 2 scholarships for him. Lastly for out of state the tuitions are actually still pretty affordable when compared to other big programs. Arizona is 51k out of state the west coast goes up a lot. So a hot bed like Texas, if you want that kid and offer him 50% does he pay 25.5 k to go to arizona or 12k to go to ole miss?
gunner34 posted:The SEC in general has an advantage in recruiting, Vandy we have all read about how they get around the 11.7. arkansas, lsu, Georgia probabably Alabama now can get grants for players that had a 3.0 or higher grade point avg and put those kids on academic scholarships, LSU coach is on record saying it adds probably at least 2 scholarships for him. Lastly for out of state the tuitions are actually still pretty affordable when compared to other big programs. Arizona is 51k out of state the west coast goes up a lot. So a hot bed like Texas, if you want that kid and offer him 50% does he pay 25.5 k to go to arizona or 12k to go to ole miss?
And dont forget the states that have hope scholarships from lottery. Public programs like South Carolina, Georgia, Florida get players in that way.
Not sure what other states have that.
justbaseball posted:I like looking at lists of accomplishments in these types of discussions - and so I went to the simplest set of lists I could find. But first, I want to stipulate that I believe the SEC was the strongest conference this year, as the Big South was last year
Onto the lists:
What I see in these lists, spanning all of CWS history is the following.
- The Pac12 has the most championships, 17. Next is the SEC at 11. LSU is tied for the 2nd most titles (6). USC is first with twice as many - 12. If you group all of the current Pac12 schools into the equation even if they weren't in the Pac12 when they won some of their titles (e.g. ASU, Arizona), then the Pac12 number is 28!!
- The SEC puts more teams into the CWS at one time more often than any other conference - but a relatively recent phenomena - Pac12ers would say some of that may be due to SE bias in the selection - more teams, more chances for appearance in the finals
- Historically, the SEC only has the 7th best team (tie) in CWS appearances (LSU)
- SEC only has the 8th best team in CWS wins (LSU again) - the Pac12 has 4 of the top 7 teams in that category - if you wanna talk about historical depth
- SEC only the 5th best team (LSU) in CWS finals appearances - the Pac12 has 3 of the top 4 - there's that depth thing again
I dunno - I would agree the SEC was the best conference this year. And I would agree if someone wants to say that LSU is one of the best 7 or 8 programs ever, maybe one of the best 3 or 4 if you count titles (tied for 2nd with 6). But I'm not sure that I buy that its the best college baseball conference in totality. But I could buy that the Pac12 is the best baseball conference...ever.
Isn't this ancient history relative to the PAC 12? Can we say for the past 10 years the SEC has been the best overall? I thought it was interesting how the ACC fared against the FGCUs, Bethune Cookman's and FIU's. Losing record....
Pac 12 has won 4 of the last 12 championships. Hardly ancient history.
Ancient history? What the heck? Makes me feel about like the time when my daughter asked me if I remembered Abe Lincoln as President! 
Florida was the best team this year. LSU second best. SEC was the best conference this year too.
Next year I don't know who it will be? Maybe the Big South again!
IMO, its a heckuva a lot better that in college baseball (unlike football), the little guys can make it and win it. College football, where the deck is so stacked in favor of 2-5 conferences filled with pseudo-professional players, its losing my interest.
Nicknamed the "Conference of Champions," the Pac-12 has won more NCAA National Team Championships than any other conference in history; the three schools with the most NCAA team championships belong to the Pac-12 (UCLA, Stanford, and USC, in that order).
As of 2014, four Pac-12 institutions are ranked in the top 20 universities in the world, the most out of all conferences outside the Ivy League with Stanford ranked 2nd, UC Berkeley ranked 4th (the highest ranking of any public university), UCLA ranked 12th, and the University of Washington ranked at 15th. In 2014, of the twelve member schools, nine were ranked in the top 100 universities in the world.
RJM - I remember reading 5 or 10 years ago that Stanford had won a national title in at least one sport for a record 30-something years in a row. I just looked it up and its at 41 now.
Before someone makes a crack about, 'yeah, lots of those are cross country, tennis, swimming, volleyball, soccer, etc...' - just remember there are folks who would put baseball in similar category - especially, perhaps, some on the 'hswaterpoloweb.com.' BTW, two of those titles are in baseball!!
Seriously, its a simply amazing accomplishment when you consider the next longest streak is apparently 19. This Stanford record also includes 22 straight Directors Cups. They finished 2nd once on that race...to UNC in 1993-94. Combine the academics at Stanford and its jaw-dropping IMO.
So!! Since we entered into such debates (Jim ) - we can now safely say, without "ancient history" thrown into the mix, that Stanford is the greatest collegiate athletic program in the country - for 22 straight years and perhaps as long as 41. Unless, you're maybe...UCLA.