Interesting article.
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Thanks for sharing. Here are a few thoughts related to the topic.
- Agree with Scott Boras, so that is something new and different for me.
- I'd really like to read that Athletic article but it is behind a pay wall. I'll find a way. I get the gist of the short article, but I want to read details.
- Perfect Game has really changed over the years, and not for the better. You were right @adbono.
Just to pique everyone's interest, the headline is:
Baseball Agents Concerned About Youth NIL Asset Collection in Perfect Game, Fanatics Deal
Top representatives question tactics of youth baseball tournament and scouting service
At the end of the article, it says:
These concerns of Perfect Game's NIL aquisition practice are immediate due to a reported partnership with collectibles and merchandise giant Fanatics. Starting this year, the deal will allow Fanatics to produce trading cards and other collectibles featuring Perfect Game athletes. This one of several recent moves from Fanatics to obtain a heavy market share in the baseball collectibles market; most notably, acquiring Topps in 2022, the leader in MLB trading cards since 1952. By partnering with Perfect Game, Fanatics may have found a way to sieze the market for youth prospect collectibles, all without providing athletes compensation for their NIL.
My question is, who would want to pay money for cards from PG?
It's not necessarily about paying money for cards from PG as it is Fanatics having sheets and sheets of autographed clear stickers Topps can use in the future without further compensating the player.
Following up with an example :
Doing a quick search on eBay yielded 2019 Leaf PG Paul Skenes cards. Let's say this happened today and not in 2019 and he signed 20 pages of stickers, which he didn't. With Fanatics now owning the rights to PG, and producing the cards, Topps (also owned by Fanatics) wouldn't need to sign him to an autograph deal since they have hundreds or thousands of his autographs. That's what Boras is getting at in the article.
PG was having guys sign 100 baseball cards when they attended the National even back in 2019. I would assume some of those end up being as valuable as a rookie card if they make it big.
@fenwaysouth posted:Thanks for sharing. Here are a few thoughts related to the topic.
- Agree with Scott Boras, so that is something new and different for me.
- I'd really like to read that Athletic article but it is behind a pay wall. I'll find a way. I get the gist of the short article, but I want to read details.
- Perfect Game has really changed over the years, and not for the better. You were right @adbono.
The sooner people realize that they don’t need PG the better off all of us will be.
PG was the best avenue to get in front of schools. It worked. PG was an avenue to play the best competition. It worked.
That's all I saw it as - they did their part. I could care less about all the extracurriculars. If you become an informed consumer you're less likely to get burned.
I have been out of the HS world for a few years now but is PG no longer the place to be for competition and exposure?
@PABaseball posted:PG was the best avenue to get in front of schools. It worked. PG was an avenue to play the best competition. It worked.
That's all I saw it as - they did their part. I could care less about all the extracurriculars. If you become an informed consumer you're less likely to get burned.
I have been out of the HS world for a few years now but is PG no longer the place to be for competition and exposure?
PG is still the place for competition and exposure. There are a few others that do a good job.
Success still depends on the players talent level, travel team and educational goals.
Agents may be looking out for their future clients best interests. But here is the thing, they don't want to lose the business.
Don't sign the stickers until you get compensated for your signature.
@anotherparent posted:My question is, who would want to pay money for cards from PG?
baseballhs got it right.
There are tons of cards all over the internet of Jac Caglianone. PG, Baseball USA as well as Gator trading cards (given out at games) for sale. Once he gets drafted the price will go wayyy up.
This is about a lot more than stickers, autographs, and baseball cards. PG is using deceptive trade practices. I hope someone sues the sh$t out of them.
My son is 31 now. It’s been a few years since he did PG East Cobb and PG Fort Myers. At the time I thought PG was good for him. He had already been “discovered” at two regional events through his travel program preselling him. Succeeding at PG events showed him he belonged on the field with anyone.
One of his high school teammates went to PG East Cobb with an unknown team of D3 prospects. They played on obscure fields with no exposure. The parents called it a waste of time and money.
With any baseball event parents have to evaluate and be honest about whether the event is the right place for their kid. Too many parents don’t understand the process and believe their kid who isn’t even a top 1000 player will be discovered.
I asked a friend who has coached an often ranked D3 team for decades how he finds prospects. Everyone he looks at is recommended by a high school or travel coach. He’s not discovering players.
On the negative side when my son did the major PG events it was the beginning of too many teams being allowed to sign up.
On another note I watched the first inning of a 14u PG event last evening. The teams were touted as top teams. A saw a pitcher with mechanical flaws and four hitters with flaws in their swing.
@baseballhs posted:PG was having guys sign 100 baseball cards when they attended the National even back in 2019. I would assume some of those end up being as valuable as a rookie card if they make it big.
Yes but the difference now is in the past year Fanatics got the MLB license and bought Topps in the process. And they are valued at $31 billion.
With Fanatics now having a stake in PG, the story is they now control from when kids first get into baseball through their MLB career.
This week, The Athletic released a story outlining concerns of many prominent baseball agents surrounding Perfect Game's alleged unethical business practices. Perfect Game is a leader in youth baseball scouting and has, for at least the past five years, been obtaining the NIL rights from minors through its various camps and promotions without any financial compensation. Perfect Game’s reach in the baseball world is ubiquitous; according to their data, they have had 14,000 players drafted into Major League Baseball, and 2,000 players appear in a major league game.
Unlike traditional media releases seen at most large events that obtain the rights to utilize photos and recordings from the event, Prefect Game’s media release includes a much more robust collection of personal intellectual property assets from players. According to a waiver obtained by The Athletic, “participants are informed that their signature at the bottom of the document grants Perfect Game ‘the absolute and irrevocable right’ to use their name, signature, likeness, image, voice and/or appearance in any photos, videos, audio, digital images or cards on behalf of any Perfect Game or its affiliates, at any present and future events related to Perfect Game.”
This collection of youth NIL assets is worrisome, given the high value of signed merchandise in the collectibles market. Youth players and their parents who sign off on the waivers often disregard the forms they are given and lack the legal literacy to understand the potential value of the NIL rights they are signing away. An anonymous agent told The Athletic, “they are getting kids underage to sign contracts with no representation at all, and parents (also sign) who don’t understand the ramifications. It’s unethical and borderline illegal. They know that and they’re still doing it. There should be a class action lawsuit against Perfect Game by the parents.”
Scott Boras, often recognized as the most prominent sports agent in the world, was not shy in sharing his feelings about Perfect Game with The Athletic: “We have warned players for the past two years that Perfect Game is now (signing) away your individual rights for cards and for other things that should not be the design of the platform… they have now gotten into profit-taking on this. We’re letting all young athletes know this is a reason not to sign their documents, not to participate. If they demand that, I wouldn’t recommend student-athletes give away those rights. Why would they?”
These concerns of Perfect Game's NIL aquisition practice are immediate due to a reported partnership with collectibles and merchandise giant Fanatics. Starting this year, the deal will allow Fanatics to produce trading cards and other collectibles featuring Perfect Game athletes. This one of several recent moves from Fanatics to obtain a heavy market share in the baseball collectibles market; most notably, acquiring Topps in 2022, the leader in MLB trading cards since 1952. By partnering with Perfect Game, Fanatics may have found a way to sieze the market for youth prospect collectibles, all without providing athletes compensation for their NIL.
Professor Noah Henderson teaches in the sport management department at Loyola University Chicago. Outside the classroom, he advises companies, schools, and collectives on…
@Dadof3 posted:Interesting article.
Dadof3, thank you for posting the article.
Dad of 3:
Maybe now the "showcases" can waive their participation fees.
Area Code Baseball founded in 1987 never charged a fee for tryouts or the games.
Over 15,000 players benefited
Bob
@Consultant posted:Dad of 3:
Maybe now the "showcases" can waive their participation fees.
Area Code Baseball founded in 1987 never charged a fee for tryouts or the games.
Over 15,000 players benefited
Bob
Right? It will be interesting to see how this progresses. I still like the pg showcases and think they do a good job. I think what gets a lot of people upset is that anyone can and do sign up no matter what the talent level. I’ll think twice now about signing this form. I wonder if you have to in order to do the event, whatever it is (showcase/tournament)
I've said this many times on this site before, we did the PG thing because it was fun and we enjoyed the travel. It also proved useful in that the kid's metrics were better than average and coaches looked at them - but in the end his posted metrics had no net impact on his college placement.
However, retaining rights to profit from your kid beyond the fact he attended their event seems pretty shady.
I'll also say that unless it's proven that PG has violated the law, most parents will continue to sign away the future rights of their kids because it adds to the possibility of the dream. I can say that I've knowingly done this with Topps regarding my son's minor league baseball cards. My son had a signature contract with Topps, but I supplied two photos that were used extensively in multiple card series at no charge. Why? Because I thought it be cool to have some of my kids cards be my photos - still do...
There are a very small percentage of HS players that know they're going to be early draft picks (Boras' and the like's clients) and this loss of rights could be a significant loss of income stream based on their brand - that's why this is a topic. The practice seems unethical if not illegal, but even for my son who's logged some MLB innings I don't think they could profit much from his signature or images/videos (if they had them).
For the mass majority of PG participants (including my kid) this is a non financial issue, but the whole thing still feels wrong.
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Interesting post. Something that doesn't come up a lot. But it's also not just PG, Baseball Factory has a similar situation also. At the Baseball Factory/Under Armor All American game, all of the participants sign hundreds of Bowman cards of themselves. Topps/Bowman then takes these cards and they put them as "chase" cards into one of the Bowman baseball card releases. In the past couple of years I have gotten into the sports card world and last year saw some of these cards pop up in "breaks". They were players from the same All American game that my son participated in. Of course, it was the bigger names/early draft picks. But essentially Topps is including these as a selling point into their product and the players, high school players at the time of signing, receive no compensation for them.
Adbono;
Did you read this in "Forbes"? https://www.forbes.com/sites/t...ers/?sh=6c2de542737f
"The inside story".
Bob
@Consultant posted:Adbono;
Did you read this in "Forbes"? https://www.forbes.com/sites/t...ers/?sh=6c2de542737f
"The inside story".
Bob
Wow. We are family friends with someone who played in the 2023 game. Going to pass this along.
@Consultant posted:Adbono;
Did you read this in "Forbes"? https://www.forbes.com/sites/t...ers/?sh=6c2de542737f
"The inside story".
Bob
I have read it now. Thanks for posting it. It boggles my mind that anyone still tries to defend PG. I have said this before but it bears repeating - PG was founded on a good concept which provided a service that helped many people. But that was in the beginning. As they grew, and turned into a multimillion dollar company, greed and shady characters crept in. In 2022 PG sold to a callous group whose goal is to exploit as many participants in youth baseball as possible. At this point they are as bad as any other morally corrupt organization that you care to name.
@adbono posted:I have read it now. Thanks for posting it. It boggles my mind that anyone still tries to defend PG. I have said this before but it bears repeating - PG was founded on a good concept which provided a service that helped many people. But that was in the beginning. As they grew, and turned into a multimillion dollar company, greed and shady characters crept in. In 2022 PG sold to a callous group whose goal is to exploit as many participants in youth baseball as possible. At this point they are as bad as any other morally corrupt organization that you care to name.
It looks like the owners who took over in 2022 are ex-agents so no surprise they've focused on NIL to make money.
20 MLB players just joined as investors last month.
It’s looks like the new owners of PG have ruined the reputation of what Jerry Ford built. I thought PG was getting out of control when they started allowing too many teams at nationals. And I thought “that” was a money grab. It was kindergarten stuff compared to what the new owners are doing.
What occurred at Chase Park appears to be illegal as can be. No parents allowed. Get in here and start signing. Ugly! But, a minor can’t be held to a contract his parents are unaware of and didn’t provide consent.
@Consultant posted:Adbono;
Did you read this in "Forbes"? https://www.forbes.com/sites/t...ers/?sh=6c2de542737f
"The inside story".
Bob
Unbelievable!
Some more information I found:
This only gives them NIL rights to photos taken at PG events. PG owns the copyrights to any photos, they added this language to protect against players trying to get around that by claiming their right to publicity is being infringed.
It has no bearing on a players ability to sell his NIL in the future.
When you go to a professional sporting event,
You were granting them the same license to use your NIL
@ARCEKU21 posted:Wow. We are family friends with someone who played in the 2023 game. Going to pass this along.
Just talked to my friend. He said there is a big rumbling amongst the parents of the players at last years All American Game. He said some of the parents are looking into legal action against PG. He said to stay tuned on this.
Anytime a minor is told their parents cannot be present and it's a business transaction something is very wrong...
At least one of the big national/franchised travel team organizations has a perpetual NIL grant in their player agreement too. We passed on joining for other reasons, but the NIL grant was a red flag.
@adbono posted:At this point they are as bad as any other morally corrupt organization that you care to name.
Federal government?