Thoughts on this Swing

David Eckstein is a good example, but he fell far short of getting a big signing bonus. So did Albert Pujols (signed for about 30,000). Surely, you’re kidding when asking about what tools Chipper Jones had. He was the first pick (like Upton) of the 1990 draft as a high school shortstop. Tools are tools, mechanics are mechanics, one is much easier to learn over a period of time.

Eckstein does have some average tools, but he’s an outstanding MLB player. He was drafted in about the 20th round out of college so he’s played 9 or 10 years including the last 4 or 5 in the Big Leagues. Upton signed last winter and has played 20 some professional games in Low A ball. So far in their baseball careers Upton has made the most money. That’s because of tools, not mechanics.

This kind of BSing is a lot of fun, but I gotta get back to work.

quote:

You never consider the fact (truth) that your theory is garbage

I have and after the 26th HR, going undefeated in region play, and winning our 2 of three this week both by the 10 run rule to be going to the final 4 next week ....I made an executive decision that it was not garbage.

Originally posted by Infopimp:
It's in the pelvis which is controlling the stride and the foot.

I will agree here but it cannot control the upper body and you have no idea how to coach that



You belive what you read and I believe what I see.....big difference.

And you coach how many kids now?? That would be none or zero last count. Go back and video some more yellow cage ball swings

No, you don't coach what you see.

I've proven you're wrong at least a half a dozen times with clip after clip after clip of mlb players doing anything but what you teach.

Each time you ignore. Change the subject. Ask for a get out of jail free card.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
...Surely, you’re kidding when asking about what tools Chipper Jones had. He was the first pick (like Upton) of the 1990 draft as a high school shortstop.

So, I'm supposed to believe Chipper ran the 60 in 6.2, or something close.

Did Chipper throw 94mph?

Chipper had/has tools. But he flips burgers without his hitting mechanics.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
So far in their baseball careers Upton has made the most money. That’s because of tools, not mechanics.

If Upton signed for 6.1M he's behind Eckstein.

At least based on Eckstein's 3yr, 10M contract that he is in his second year of.

Surely the Angels paid him somehting for 2-3 years of work.

And, Eckstein doesn't play because of his bat. If he wasn't a middle infielder he wouldn't be in the league.

I should have said “entering this year".

According to "Baseball Reference" site, Eckstein Salary in the big leagues has been…
2001 Angels - $200,000
2002 Angels – $280,000
2003 Angels - $425,000
2004 Angels - $2,150,000
2005 Cardinals - $2,333,333
Total - $5,388,333

Upton signing bonus $6,100,000

I would bet anything that the previous years in the minors and Eckstein’s signing bonus does not add up to the $700,000+ difference.

By the way, if Eckstein couldn’t HIT he wouldn’t be in the Big Leagues either. So it could be argued he is there because of his bat… among other things!

Chipper could run, throw, field and hit. He could not run like Upton, not many ever have.

PG Jerry, since you asked sir, I will respond to what I think about clip of prospect. His hips clear and his lowerbody does come forward by turning which is the key to success at professional level. Like his coil, as several here have already mentioned, as well as his turn into the stride with hips leading the way. He does pull hands and arms in slightly, which is good for the wood , and catches the ball out front which indicates batspeed even though this isn't a true measurement due to batting practice speed which I could pound every pitch 450 feet and still can, of late. It's still very rare for a shortstop to have this kind of swing with power and that's why he is worth so much in the bargaining aspects, IMHO.

Still like the hispanic free-agent and would take a dozen like him any day of the week compared to just "one". But that's the business of baseball and present day agents and present day negotiations, so what can I say, but hey, this kid milked the system for everything it's worth and hope he doesn't throw any bats at umpires or take the money and run peace, Shep

Shep, I talked to the film guy today, but forgot to ask about the other kid. Be interesting to know his name and follow him. Nothing says he might not end up being a star. That would be the greatest find in history, you picking him out taking a half swing on the side. You never know!

I hear you on that bat throwing thing. Been a lot of trouble for a few past first picks. Don't know if milking the system is the right term, though. It's a powerful system and he's just one young kid (with a good agent). A rich young kid now, thanks to the system!!

Infopimp,

My son does use a "click back" to start his swing, but we've always been taught not to curl the bat behind the head, as it forces a long approach to the ball.

I understand the need to click back, but why wrap the bat behind the head, forcing a long sweeping arc? Wouldn't a more direct route to the ball enhance bat speed at impact?

Obviously a guy like Upton can pull this off, but again, would you recommend this to someone who is a mere mortal?

I see a little bit of tweak on the front foot when hes going through his swing. I think that he should be slightly on the ball of the front foot when he finishes the swing. It looks like hes losing some power when the front foot tweaks. Throws off his balance, etc.

Just wondering..where did this hit go? Pop up or monster shot?

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Infopimp,

My son does use a "click back" to start his swing, but we've always been taught not to curl the bat behind the head, as it forces a long approach to the ball.

I understand the need to click back, but why wrap the bat behind the head, forcing a long sweeping arc? Wouldn't a more direct route to the ball enhance bat speed at impact?

Obviously a guy like Upton can pull this off, but again, would you recommend this to someone who is a mere mortal?

Did I say click back?

If you can't stay on point I'm not interested.

TPBulldog,

quote:

The ball went out of the stadium over the street which is estimated 450' away.

Thanks pg and bb for the help, used the load in my game today. I was a bit out in front (lunging a little), but I will work it out.

next1

If you are too quick in rotation into stride, this could be simply a timing thing. Don't allow your hands to get in front of hips before they clear. Just remember after coiling knee in load and getting hands and arms in proper hitting position to wait wait wait BAM!!!! Knock it out of the park ! You can do it every time if you work on it hard enough.

PGJerry

Your probably right about my milking comment
Justin is a fine young prospect and I certainly wouldn't want to shed anything negative over onto him, this was not my intention, so I do rescind comment and apologize to the Uptons

I'll be seeing J.U. this summer in the minors while helping out with pro coverage, I'm pretty sure. Will let ya'll know how he's doing now that you have done your part and passed the baton, so to speak peace, Shep

Infopimp, I tried to use the same word you did, but the site censor ***** 'ed it out. I see now that you used spaces to get it by when you posted. But don't let that get you off point. Just treat it like I used the word the site won't let me use!

If the bat is not in a position that forces it to angularly displace (arc; the blur in the video) immediately upon launch, then you have slack or slop in your swing.

Wrapping the bat is one way to "connect" so that you reduce the slop. I suppose, like anything, you can over do it. But, Upton is not overdoing it.

Your assumption that it automatically makes a longer path to the ball displays a typical misunderstanding about the swing. Is it longer in distance? Maybe, maybe not. A guy who wraps will usually hit the ball very deep in the zone. Compare that to a guy who doesn't wrap and moves his hands forward before the bat arcs, (slop) I'd say the latter has the longer swing distance .It definately is not longer in time. It is much quicker than a swing without it.

The time it takes between decision to swing and bat blur is critical. A guy who wraps will usually have this time very short. A guy who doesn't wrap or maintain a 90 degree angle between the forearm and the bat will be slower. Some guys do this with the bat more vertical. Some guys do this with the bat more horizontal. And everything in between.

But, by the time you get to this bat/arm relationship and then load, the bat is often times what lay people call wrapped. Call it what you want. It is not bad.

A hitter with a clue, will have the feeling that he, his body, himself, is inside the arc of the bat. This gives a feeling of the arc being behind him. A good thing.

A hitter without a clue will have the feeling of being outside the arc. He will have moved the hands forward first (slop) and then the bat arcs giving the feeling of the arc being in front of him.



These images are very good at depicting the "inside the arc" feeling.

I think the issue is this

1. The sweet spot on the barrel will be in alignment with the spine at swing initiation.

2. It should be there by virtue of the shoulders turning back

3. If the shoudlers don't turn back and the bat gets there by decreasing the bat forearm angle to a lot less than 90 then it is possibly wrapped

quote:

Originally posted by swingbuster:
1. The sweet spot on the barrel will be in alignment with the spine at swing initiation.

Extremely good example of talking but not saying anything.

No matter where the sweet spot is it is in line with the spine.

Infopimp,

I took his comment to mean that he wanted the bat head behind the batter's head, directly over the verticle line of the spine. I'm not sure I agree, but I did not find his comment nonsensical. In fact, his comment seemed to jibe with some of what you said above -- though your comments are so full of gobbledygook, who really knows?

For example, for you to say the sweet spot will always be in line with the spine is obviously erronneous if we are using anything approaching standard English definitions of words. Your comments above indicated you wanted the swing to start with a bat wrap c o c k, but those who don't agree and thus don't wrap the bat won't get the sweet spot over the spine. Often they will have the bat over their back shoulder, off line with the spine. Thus, I thought the whole point of his comment was that he was agreeing with you, at least as far as your notion of correct initial bat position. Not that it earned him any brownie points; you still slammed him.

Why do your comments always shed more heat than light? Try speaking clearly, in plain English, and next time you feel the urge to condescend or insult, stuff a sock in it.

Quite frankly, I don't know who you are. Maybe you're a baseball genius, or maybe you have no qualifications whatsoever. You advance theories that are contrary to those of many successful coaches I have encountered. That's fine, maybe you're on the cutting edge, and of course there is more than one way to succeed in any event. But as long as you wish to remain anonymous, since that prevents you from impressing us with your credentials, you could do a better job of impressing us with your reasoning and articulation.

Above I tried to get you to persuade me to your view, and what you wrote is about as clear as mud. I came away thinking that I would never let a guy like you coach my son. You would start by confusing the heck out of him, then you would start verbally abusing him. I guess the internet is your last refuge.