Dad04,
Actually I was referring to Joe Girardi, the National League Manager of the Year in 2006.
My prediction (hell, nobody remembers this stuff anyway) is that Joe Girardi will become a legendary manager and end up in the hall-of-fame.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
TPM,
Maybe a few of those fans who want heads should actually go to some games. Then maybe all of this wouldn't be so neccessary. This is a team that has won as many World Championships as the Red Sox and the Yankees in the last ten years with some of the best management in all of baseball. They did it with two completely different teams. Yet they can't draw a crowd that will help pay to keep some of these guys. I'm afraid the fans in Miami won't understand this until after the've lost the team.
Anyway, to me, the Marlins biggest loss came last year and now that loss is the Yankees gain.
Fans won't come because of what goes on here. If they built a team that people could relate to, then things would change. Don't you love going to a game to watch a team that has players that you can relate to. Or to watch and appreciate the game as it should be played for MLB? It takes a season or two for players to make a name here then they are gone. The Marlins sole purpose, with MLB blessings is primarily for on the job training for players with talent who would otherwise sit somewhere else. Let's face it, MLB calls the shots, Loria just speaks on their behalf. MLB owns him, he's a puppet. Selig wants a team in South Florida, heaven knows what for, I have no clue. People here feel used, and they are tired of it. BTW, bring in another team like the Mets, Cubs, Braves and the place is packed. Bonds was here and there was no ticket to be found for three days.
We have two other sports franchises here in Florida where the owners have given to the community, Aronson and Heizenga, Loria and MLB hve done NOTHING here in south florida but complain they want a stadium built and want the taxpayers to do it. Loria says he has no money to do so, hello, the man just gave 20 million dollars to a museum in Boston (I think it was there).
Why did two other owners who won championships break up the teams as soon as it was over? Because, MLB wants it that way. Loria makes plenty of money from revenue sharing.
What I am relaying comes from the way most people feel, this is not just my thoughts. Letting Giradi go was a big blow, they said he wasn't what they were looking for, NL manager of the year AND the man just landed himself the manager of some team in NY called the Yankees. The problem was, Joe was working with nothing yet able to get the job done. People were beginning to come to games, they were excited...again. If the franchise looked like it was going to make money then you can't ask the public or State of Florida to build you a stadium.
The marlins can do what they do and get away with it year after year because there is no fan base anymore. Could you see a Red Sox fan or a Yankee fan or a Mets fan putting up with that and spending the money they do on tickets. No way.
I appreciate the prospects coming to play here, but only because I know who they are. Do you think that most people here ever heard of them? The talk today from everyone is, "I don't want to see a prospect play, I want a real player, if I want to see a Marlin prospect play I can go up to Roger Dean".
BTW, most people like watching baseball in a BB stadium built for the game, not a football stadium.
Jerry , does that make sense to you why people don't attend?
I've been to a few Marlins games myself, while visiting that area.
My two cents: If you could stop it from raining right at game time almost every night, that would help the fan experience quite a bit.
Are they going to play ... are they not going to play ... how late can we keep the kids up ... can we find enough paper towels in the bathroom to dry off our seats ... That kind of thing makes you so glad you spent $150 to take the family to a ballgame.
Sometimes you miss the pregame stuff, too, like BP with your favorite players, if it starts raining around, say, 6 p.m.
At least Tampa Bay got a domed stadium. In the Miami area, you need a retractable roof like nobody else does.
My two cents: If you could stop it from raining right at game time almost every night, that would help the fan experience quite a bit.
Are they going to play ... are they not going to play ... how late can we keep the kids up ... can we find enough paper towels in the bathroom to dry off our seats ... That kind of thing makes you so glad you spent $150 to take the family to a ballgame.
Sometimes you miss the pregame stuff, too, like BP with your favorite players, if it starts raining around, say, 6 p.m.
At least Tampa Bay got a domed stadium. In the Miami area, you need a retractable roof like nobody else does.
MD,
I agree with you. I went with Bighit to watch Zach Duke play once, rain delay, start game, stop game. We paid good moeny to watch him pitch 2 innings.
Not to mention the beastly heat and humidity.
They say they want 400 Million to build a domed stadium. They say the architects and builders are thieves, it most likely would only cost 3 million. Some want it built here, others somewhere else, our east west roads can't support6 teh traffic, blah , blha. People ask why? No one trusts anyone here.
I am not sure what is going to happen because with UM moving out of the OB and going to the stadium, Marlins hav eto go. Heizenga has more or less forced them out, JMO.
Hey, don't get me wrong, if it was my prospect coming to play on the bigger stage I would be very happy.
I agree with you. I went with Bighit to watch Zach Duke play once, rain delay, start game, stop game. We paid good moeny to watch him pitch 2 innings.
Not to mention the beastly heat and humidity.
They say they want 400 Million to build a domed stadium. They say the architects and builders are thieves, it most likely would only cost 3 million. Some want it built here, others somewhere else, our east west roads can't support6 teh traffic, blah , blha. People ask why? No one trusts anyone here.
I am not sure what is going to happen because with UM moving out of the OB and going to the stadium, Marlins hav eto go. Heizenga has more or less forced them out, JMO.
Hey, don't get me wrong, if it was my prospect coming to play on the bigger stage I would be very happy.
TPM,
I do understand some of that and I’m positive you know what’s going on. Strangely enough it kind of sounds like the movie with the Wild Thing in it. I don’t live in the Miami area and you do so it’s hard to argue against anything you’ve said. Sounds like the fans in Miami are rebelling and they (the fans) will not win. I have a close friend who is the head of player personal with the Marlins, I’m positive he wants to win. One of the guys who helped us start PG was a coach on the first Marlins Championship team with Jim Leyland. That was a blast following the team that year 1997 (I think).
What I don’t understand is this. The Cubs haven’t won a world series in 100 years and the Marlins have won two in recent years. The second world series title was with a completely different roster than the first. I really thought that was kind of neat at the time (smallest payroll beating the biggest payroll). BTW, the first dismantling after the 97 championship team was before Loria was the owner and so someone else also thought it neccessary. It is interesting that what you speak of mirrors what happened in Montreal, though.
Are the fans so irate in Miami that if somehow they won another world series next year, no one would go to the games? No matter whose fault that is, it’s too bad because once the team moves it might take a very long time before Major League baseball returns to the area.
Here is how the Cubs and Marlins compare (rank) among all 30 MLB clubs in attendance.
2007 – Marlins 30th – Cubs 6th
2006 – Marlins 30th – Cubs 6th
2005 – Marlins 28th – Cubs 6th
2004 – Marlins 26th – Cubs 6th
2003 – Marlins 28th – Cubs 6th (Marlins World Series Champs)
2002 - Marlins 29th – Cubs 8th
2001 – Marlins 29th – Cubs 10th
1997 – Marlins World Series Champs
Are you saying that Major League Baseball is behind these Trades being made. That MLB was the reason championship teams were disbanded? That is kind of confusing because Detroit just became one of the favorites and I can’t believe the other 28 owners would just set around and let Bud Selig do it under the table.
Anyway, it sure would be nice to see it turn around in Miami, but seems like the odds are against it.
By the way, if not a typo… Please let me know where I can build a domed major league stadium for 3 million! You and I should get together and start building them!
I do understand some of that and I’m positive you know what’s going on. Strangely enough it kind of sounds like the movie with the Wild Thing in it. I don’t live in the Miami area and you do so it’s hard to argue against anything you’ve said. Sounds like the fans in Miami are rebelling and they (the fans) will not win. I have a close friend who is the head of player personal with the Marlins, I’m positive he wants to win. One of the guys who helped us start PG was a coach on the first Marlins Championship team with Jim Leyland. That was a blast following the team that year 1997 (I think).
What I don’t understand is this. The Cubs haven’t won a world series in 100 years and the Marlins have won two in recent years. The second world series title was with a completely different roster than the first. I really thought that was kind of neat at the time (smallest payroll beating the biggest payroll). BTW, the first dismantling after the 97 championship team was before Loria was the owner and so someone else also thought it neccessary. It is interesting that what you speak of mirrors what happened in Montreal, though.
Are the fans so irate in Miami that if somehow they won another world series next year, no one would go to the games? No matter whose fault that is, it’s too bad because once the team moves it might take a very long time before Major League baseball returns to the area.
Here is how the Cubs and Marlins compare (rank) among all 30 MLB clubs in attendance.
2007 – Marlins 30th – Cubs 6th
2006 – Marlins 30th – Cubs 6th
2005 – Marlins 28th – Cubs 6th
2004 – Marlins 26th – Cubs 6th
2003 – Marlins 28th – Cubs 6th (Marlins World Series Champs)
2002 - Marlins 29th – Cubs 8th
2001 – Marlins 29th – Cubs 10th
1997 – Marlins World Series Champs
Are you saying that Major League Baseball is behind these Trades being made. That MLB was the reason championship teams were disbanded? That is kind of confusing because Detroit just became one of the favorites and I can’t believe the other 28 owners would just set around and let Bud Selig do it under the table.
Anyway, it sure would be nice to see it turn around in Miami, but seems like the odds are against it.
By the way, if not a typo… Please let me know where I can build a domed major league stadium for 3 million! You and I should get together and start building them!
I meant 300M, I was so emotional listening to all the stuff today I can't see straight. 
Don't you find it VERY strange that TWO owners did exactly the same thing? Why?
Championships mean nothing when you return in the spring to see a team that had nothing to do with the one who won the championship. How would Red Sox fans feel if they returned next year for the ring ceremony and 2-3 players were there?
Don't get me wrong, I think they most likely have the best developmental program in the business and an incredible talent for getting young talent and letting them mature on the field. Now the larger franchises are beginning to do the same whereas they never did that before, but a whole team at one time? I do beleive their philosophy of fielding a team with young players and winning spending little $$$ doing so is one that many teams would LOVE to do but can't.
The announcement today was "we traded Willis and Cabrera (most likely a future hall of famer someday) for 6 young prospects". Now I understand what they were trying to say and accomplish, but most have no clue what that means other than to say "they traded our two best guys for who". Would you care?
This is the deal, here in south florida everyone comes from someplace else. My neighbor is a Red Sox fanatic, my other neighbor is a Cleveland Indian fan, my other neighbors from Michigan are Tiger fans (boy are they happy today)and we for years were Brave fans due to geography, that was the team my son grew up watching and lived and died for the Braves. Husband and I grew up in Jersey and Yankee fans. I even recently have found many of the Cardinal Nation down here. The common thread here is going to a ball game to enjoy baseball for what it is. You can't do that with a minor league product on a major league field at MLB prices, in a football stadium.
We are a football driven town, football, football, football ands more football.
Will the fans be the biggest losers, I don't think anyone cares anymore about the marlins but they do for baseball, that's why they flock to spring training and you can't get tickets anywhere.
We appreciate the game because we all have personal ties to the game. But that is not true for everyone.
We have players that the fans fall in love with, Conine, Hernandez, Beckett, Lowell, Dontrelle, Cabrera, Johnson and Pudge and there is always an excuse why they send them away. Example they refused to pay Pudge 10M, they said he was too old for that kind of money, for them maybe...enough said. We have never had a true franchise player, NOT one. Why? We even get a young coach everyone adores, fan attendance improves and he's gone in a year. Why?
Then the Marlins turn around and blame not making money on the fans, that is WRONG. That's why people will not go to games. People down here are so fickle and have no loyalty. They know this, this is why they do what they do.
Whats the point in attendance charting if both WS teams were disbanded after the wins. As a relatively young franchise with fans here from all over the country how do you expect to develop fan loyalty? Dismantle your WS teams a few weeks after you've won, now that doesnot make a lot of sense to me!
The Angels were negotiationg for Cabrera, but obviously they wouldn't give the Marlins what they wanted. This wasn't about what the Tigers wanted, everyone knew those two would not play as Marlins ever again. It was announced in the GM's meeting what they had in mind, they just waited for the right team to give them what they needed. The Marlins got their way, the Tigers were only the recipients of a good deal.
I am sure that your friend wants to win, Loria wants to win, but does MLB WANT them to win?
Tampa Bay has the same fan issues.
Everyone here is crying Montreal.
Don't you find it VERY strange that TWO owners did exactly the same thing? Why?
Championships mean nothing when you return in the spring to see a team that had nothing to do with the one who won the championship. How would Red Sox fans feel if they returned next year for the ring ceremony and 2-3 players were there?
Don't get me wrong, I think they most likely have the best developmental program in the business and an incredible talent for getting young talent and letting them mature on the field. Now the larger franchises are beginning to do the same whereas they never did that before, but a whole team at one time? I do beleive their philosophy of fielding a team with young players and winning spending little $$$ doing so is one that many teams would LOVE to do but can't.
The announcement today was "we traded Willis and Cabrera (most likely a future hall of famer someday) for 6 young prospects". Now I understand what they were trying to say and accomplish, but most have no clue what that means other than to say "they traded our two best guys for who".
This is the deal, here in south florida everyone comes from someplace else. My neighbor is a Red Sox fanatic, my other neighbor is a Cleveland Indian fan, my other neighbors from Michigan are Tiger fans (boy are they happy today)and we for years were Brave fans due to geography, that was the team my son grew up watching and lived and died for the Braves. Husband and I grew up in Jersey and Yankee fans. I even recently have found many of the Cardinal Nation down here. The common thread here is going to a ball game to enjoy baseball for what it is. You can't do that with a minor league product on a major league field at MLB prices, in a football stadium.
We are a football driven town, football, football, football ands more football.
Will the fans be the biggest losers, I don't think anyone cares anymore about the marlins but they do for baseball, that's why they flock to spring training and you can't get tickets anywhere.
We appreciate the game because we all have personal ties to the game. But that is not true for everyone.
We have players that the fans fall in love with, Conine, Hernandez, Beckett, Lowell, Dontrelle, Cabrera, Johnson and Pudge and there is always an excuse why they send them away. Example they refused to pay Pudge 10M, they said he was too old for that kind of money, for them maybe...enough said. We have never had a true franchise player, NOT one. Why? We even get a young coach everyone adores, fan attendance improves and he's gone in a year. Why?
Then the Marlins turn around and blame not making money on the fans, that is WRONG. That's why people will not go to games. People down here are so fickle and have no loyalty. They know this, this is why they do what they do.
Whats the point in attendance charting if both WS teams were disbanded after the wins. As a relatively young franchise with fans here from all over the country how do you expect to develop fan loyalty? Dismantle your WS teams a few weeks after you've won, now that doesnot make a lot of sense to me!
The Angels were negotiationg for Cabrera, but obviously they wouldn't give the Marlins what they wanted. This wasn't about what the Tigers wanted, everyone knew those two would not play as Marlins ever again. It was announced in the GM's meeting what they had in mind, they just waited for the right team to give them what they needed. The Marlins got their way, the Tigers were only the recipients of a good deal.
I am sure that your friend wants to win, Loria wants to win, but does MLB WANT them to win?
Tampa Bay has the same fan issues.
Everyone here is crying Montreal.
IMO MLB in Florida doesn't work it is to big a college sports state. One team will need to leave and the other will need to be moved to Orlando area to draw both sides of state or both will eventually go under.