Timing of Ivy League/Academic D3 Offers?

My son attended a D3. But he did not go the ED route. HE did Early action at all the schools he was interested in. Offers at the D3 level are not quite the same at other levels. Since there are no NLI or binding documents, coaches will say we want you but there may never really be an offer. Unless it is ED. If they want to walk you through Admissions, that would be the closest thing to an Offer, as a D3. 

My son started to get tons of contact during Fall of senior year. All wanted him to apply Early Action. The coaches made it clear that they wanted him through there communications. But none really ever pushed for a commitment. Almost all of the coaches advised that he look around make some visits and they hoped they would hear his decision sometime in the spring. Hard to commit if you do not know your financial package. 

My son was an exception to the norm, but to answer the question:  he was given a firm offer in December of his junior year of HS.  He had other D1 offers to respond to, had the SAT score and GPA (along with AP courses, rigor, etc.) that they were seeking.  While this was an exception, there were others in his class (one of his travel teammates) who committed to another Ivy a few months later.  I share this mainly to let you know that they make offers well in advance of Fall of senior year, but the student has to keep up his end of the bargain in the classroom.  But, to my knowledge, they don't give offers unless they are 95%+ sure that, absent some unusual event, the student athlete will be accepted by Admissions.   I know of 6-8 Ivy commits already for the 2017 class, based on PG postings and what I've heard through the grapevine.  I've not heard stories of Ivy's pulling offers, but that is not to say it isn't happening.  

In think in some cases at least, the timing for D3 is right now.  My son currently has his academic records in the admissions office of a highly rated LAC where he wouldn't have a snowball's chance in heck of getting into were it not for the fact that the baseball coach wants him.

Fingers crossed!

PeaceLove&Baseball posted:

For those with sons who are playing/played for an Ivy or academic D3, could you speak to the experience of when your son's offer came through?  I understand the recruiting process usually culminates in the early decision admissions deadline (Nov 1).  Did any here at hsbaseballweb get firm offers well in advance of that?  And if so, did any have the nightmare scenario of having an offer revoked?  I have recently heard three stories of Ivies pulling offers at the last minute -- although the stories were all friend-of-a-friend type anecdotes and possibly (hopefully) unreliable.  

Thanks for any insight on this.

Would wonder what having an Ivy pull an offer means. As someone who played a different varsity sport at an Ivy - there are not athletic scholarships per say, so there wouldn't be an offer to pull. 

PA2020Lefty posted:

PeaceLove&Baseball posted:

For those with sons who are playing/played for an Ivy or academic D3, could you speak to the experience of when your son's offer came through?  I understand the recruiting process usually culminates in the early decision admissions deadline (Nov 1).  Did any here at hsbaseballweb get firm offers well in advance of that?  And if so, did any have the nightmare scenario of having an offer revoked?  I have recently heard three stories of Ivies pulling offers at the last minute -- although the stories were all friend-of-a-friend type anecdotes and possibly (hopefully) unreliable.  

Thanks for any insight on this.

Would wonder what having an Ivy pull an offer means. As someone who played a different varsity sport at an Ivy - there are not athletic scholarships per say, so there wouldn't be an offer to pull. 

Technically speaking, it is a fair point, PALefty.  I think it is clear, though, that the "offer" that is being pulled is the "offer to have you, Mr. Recruit, be one of a very select group of student athletes [which is 7 or 8 for baseball per Ivy] that we strongly support with our school's admissions; in fact, as you know, we have already pre-screened you as part of this select group."

BucsFan posted:

PA2020Lefty posted:

PeaceLove&Baseball posted:

For those with sons who are playing/played for an Ivy or academic D3, could you speak to the experience of when your son's offer came through?  I understand the recruiting process usually culminates in the early decision admissions deadline (Nov 1).  Did any here at hsbaseballweb get firm offers well in advance of that?  And if so, did any have the nightmare scenario of having an offer revoked?  I have recently heard three stories of Ivies pulling offers at the last minute -- although the stories were all friend-of-a-friend type anecdotes and possibly (hopefully) unreliable.  

Thanks for any insight on this.

Would wonder what having an Ivy pull an offer means. As someone who played a different varsity sport at an Ivy - there are not athletic scholarships per say, so there wouldn't be an offer to pull. 

Technically speaking, it is a fair point, PALefty.  I think it is clear, though, that the "offer" that is being pulled is the "offer to have you, Mr. Recruit, be on of a very select group of student athletes [which is 7 or 8 for baseball per Ivy] that we strongly support with our school's admissions; in fact, as you know, we have already pre-screened you as part of this select group."

Ok got it, yep that makes sense.

PeaceLove&Baseball posted:

For those with sons who are playing/played for an Ivy or academic D3, could you speak to the experience of when your son's offer came through?  I understand the recruiting process usually culminates in the early decision admissions deadline (Nov 1).  Did any here at hsbaseballweb get firm offers well in advance of that?  And if so, did any have the nightmare scenario of having an offer revoked?  I have recently heard three stories of Ivies pulling offers at the last minute -- although the stories were all friend-of-a-friend type anecdotes and possibly (hopefully) unreliable.  

Thanks for any insight on this.

Summer prior to senior year (after July 1st) is when many of the Ivy League Offers heat up. Some may be a little later after HF camps in Long Island. I think son's offer was mid to late July. Those with offers receive a "likely letter", sort of a LOI without the $. Those with likely letters apply early decision. Son's class collectively had their "official visit" in early November senior year. Son knows a player at a different Ivy who was given a number to get on SAT which he did after superscoring from 3rd test. As for pulling back an offer, the schools will closely monitor the Academic Index of the class they are recruiting and it's in best interest for coach to be straightforward with the recruit on his chances.  Some Ivies may pick up players after early fall camps at the school during players' senior year. Penn told us this happened with one of their recruits, when son attended jr year. Good luck.

Ripken Fan posted:

PeaceLove&Baseball posted:

For those with sons who are playing/played for an Ivy or academic D3, could you speak to the experience of when your son's offer came through?  I understand the recruiting process usually culminates in the early decision admissions deadline (Nov 1).  Did any here at hsbaseballweb get firm offers well in advance of that?  And if so, did any have the nightmare scenario of having an offer revoked?  I have recently heard three stories of Ivies pulling offers at the last minute -- although the stories were all friend-of-a-friend type anecdotes and possibly (hopefully) unreliable.  

Thanks for any insight on this.

Summer prior to senior year (after July 1st) is when many of the Ivy League Offers heat up. Some may be a little later after HF camps in Long Island. I think son's offer was mid to late July. Those with offers receive a "likely letter", sort of a LOI without the $. Those with likely letters apply early decision. Son's class collectively had their "official visit" in early November senior year. Son knows a player at a different Ivy who was given a number to get on SAT which he did after superscoring from 3rd test. As for pulling back an offer, the schools will closely monitor the Academic Index of the class they are recruiting and it's in best interest for coach to be straightforward with the recruit on his chances.  Some Ivies may pick up players after early fall camps at the school during players' senior year. Penn told us this happened with one of their recruits, when son attended jr year. Good luck.

Ripken Fan nailed it. The "likely letter" (i.e., you are likely to get it) is the key. also, FWIW, the Ivies tend to have generous financial aid packages, available to athletes and non-athletes on the same basis.

Thank you all very much.

BucsFan posted:

My son was an exception to the norm, but to answer the question:  he was given a firm offer in December of his junior year of HS.  He had other D1 offers to respond to, had the SAT score and GPA (along with AP courses, rigor, etc.) that they were seeking.  While this was an exception, there were others in his class (one of his travel teammates) who committed to another Ivy a few months later.  I share this mainly to let you know that they make offers well in advance of Fall of senior year, but the student has to keep up his end of the bargain in the classroom.  But, to my knowledge, they don't give offers unless they are 95%+ sure that, absent some unusual event, the student athlete will be accepted by Admissions.   I know of 6-8 Ivy commits already for the 2017 class, based on PG postings and what I've heard through the grapevine.  I've not heard stories of Ivy's pulling offers, but that is not to say it isn't happening.  

BucsFan - It's really great to hear that your son got an Ivy offer so far in advance and it stood the test of time.  On a side note, I'm just curious: Are the PG postings self-reported by the players?  How accurate are they?  

JCG posted:

In think in some cases at least, the timing for D3 is right now.  My son currently has his academic records in the admissions office of a highly rated LAC where he wouldn't have a snowball's chance in heck of getting into were it not for the fact that the baseball coach wants him.

Fingers crossed!

JCG - That's great!  Best of luck.  And let me just get on my soapbox for a minute:  "he wouldn't have a snowball's chance in heck of getting in were it not for the fact of..."  ____(insert another special skill here)_____.  Your son's special skill is baseball, but pretty much everyone at a selective school has some individual talent or interest that they've spent thousands of hours pursuing.  To my mind, baseball is just as valid as playing the cello, etc.  If they are letting him in, then he absolutely deserves it.  

Ripken Fan posted:

Summer prior to senior year (after July 1st) is when many of the Ivy League Offers heat up. Some may be a little later after HF camps in Long Island. I think son's offer was mid to late July. Those with offers receive a "likely letter", sort of a LOI without the $. Those with likely letters apply early decision. Son's class collectively had their "official visit" in early November senior year. Son knows a player at a different Ivy who was given a number to get on SAT which he did after superscoring from 3rd test. As for pulling back an offer, the schools will closely monitor the Academic Index of the class they are recruiting and it's in best interest for coach to be straightforward with the recruit on his chances.  Some Ivies may pick up players after early fall camps at the school during players' senior year. Penn told us this happened with one of their recruits, when son attended jr year. Good luck.

Ripken Fan -- Thank you very much for this specific and concrete information.  It's exactly what I was looking to hear.  I hadn't considered the possibility that offers might've been rescinded for academic reasons (not fulfilling SAT, etc) so maybe that's what's feeding the rumor mill.  A follow up question:  do likely letters come from an admissions pre-read?  You mentioned "Those with likely letters apply early decision."  I'm just wondering on the timing of this.  Did you get a likely letter during the summer?

PeaceLove&Baseball posted:

 

BucsFan posted:

My son was an exception to the norm, but to answer the question:  he was given a firm offer in December of his junior year of HS.  He had other D1 offers to respond to, had the SAT score and GPA (along with AP courses, rigor, etc.) that they were seeking.  While this was an exception, there were others in his class (one of his travel teammates) who committed to another Ivy a few months later.  I share this mainly to let you know that they make offers well in advance of Fall of senior year, but the student has to keep up his end of the bargain in the classroom.  But, to my knowledge, they don't give offers unless they are 95%+ sure that, absent some unusual event, the student athlete will be accepted by Admissions.   I know of 6-8 Ivy commits already for the 2017 class, based on PG postings and what I've heard through the grapevine.  I've not heard stories of Ivy's pulling offers, but that is not to say it isn't happening.  

BucsFan - It's really great to hear that your son got an Ivy offer so far in advance and it stood the test of time.  On a side note, I'm just curious: Are the PG postings self-reported by the players?  How accurate are they? 

PG commitment postings are self-reported, or are - put another way - are reported by anyone who has access to that players account.   They are generally very accurate, although I've heard stories of players who report a commitment, but there is no scholarship involved.  In other words, if Johnny Shortstop has not been recruited at all by BigState U. but plans to attend and maybe try to walk on, Johnny could post his commitment as BigState U.  PGStaff would have to verify, but I think there is so much scrutiny and so many "eyeballs" given PG's success that this is pretty rare.  However, what is important to know is that there are many commits who aren't on PG, haven't attended a PG event (so have no profile) and/or don't bother to post their commitment.   Last I looked, my son's school showed only 4 commits on PG for his class.  There are actually 7.  3 of them have no PG profile.

My son got his Likely Letter in late October (received email from the Coach on Oct. 22 that is was on its way), but that was because he got his application in in early October (as advised by the coaches).  A Likely Letter is nearly bullet proof.  No Likely Letters go out in the Summer, because they cannot be issued until after the application is 100% complete, and the open period during which applications can be submitted and thus read by admissions likely varies by school.  Below is an actual excerpt from an email that my son received from his coach in late July (as 4 of the eventual class of 7 had been offered and verbally committed at that point; and I am sure he resent it as additional players committed.)

THE APPLICATION PROCESS/ OBTAINING YOUR LIKELY LETTER

As far as the admissions process goes, here is the timeline of events. All of you have hopefully begun to think about your application in one way or another (essay topics, the teachers you will be asking for recommendations, etc.). The obvious goal for all involved here would be to have your application submitted as soon as possible but PLEASE do not sacrifice ANY part of it in order to submit it quickly. As a reminder, the absolute earliest your application can be read is October 1st and typically it will take 1-3 weeks for you to obtain your likely letter. That application cannot be read until every part of your application has been submitted and that includes your standardized testing.

BucsFan posted:

My son got his Likely Letter in late October (received email from the Coach on Oct. 22 that is was on its way), but that was because he got his application in in early October (as advised by the coaches).  A Likely Letter is nearly bullet proof.  No Likely Letters go out in the Summer, because they cannot be issued until after the application is 100% complete, and the open period during which applications can be submitted and thus read by admissions likely varies by school.  Below is an actual excerpt from an email that my son received from his coach in late July (as 4 of the eventual class of 7 had been offered and verbally committed at that point; and I am sure he resent it as additional players committed.)

THE APPLICATION PROCESS/ OBTAINING YOUR LIKELY LETTER

As far as the admissions process goes, here is the timeline of events. All of you have hopefully begun to think about your application in one way or another (essay topics, the teachers you will be asking for recommendations, etc.). The obvious goal for all involved here would be to have your application submitted as soon as possible but PLEASE do not sacrifice ANY part of it in order to submit it quickly. As a reminder, the absolute earliest your application can be read is October 1st and typically it will take 1-3 weeks for you to obtain your likely letter. That application cannot be read until every part of your application has been submitted and that includes your standardized testing. 

Bucs Fan, THANKS so much for generously sharing this insight into the process.  It is exactly the information on timeline and sequence of events I've been trying to find -- and believe me, there's a lot of out-of-date or vague info out there on the internet.  

Another question, although it may not apply to your son since he was offered in Dec of his junior year: 

At what point did your son let other schools'  coaches know he had decided to go ED with this school?  

Son started seriously communicating with the D3s where there was mutual interest in early July before his senior year, committed to apply ED to the school he'll attend at the end of September (during a visit to the school).  Don't recall when he was actually accepted, definitely before Christmas.

PeaceLove&Baseball posted:

BucsFan posted:

My son got his Likely Letter in late October (received email from the Coach on Oct. 22 that is was on its way), but that was because he got his application in in early October (as advised by the coaches).  A Likely Letter is nearly bullet proof.  No Likely Letters go out in the Summer, because they cannot be issued until after the application is 100% complete, and the open period during which applications can be submitted and thus read by admissions likely varies by school.  Below is an actual excerpt from an email that my son received from his coach in late July (as 4 of the eventual class of 7 had been offered and verbally committed at that point; and I am sure he resent it as additional players committed.)

THE APPLICATION PROCESS/ OBTAINING YOUR LIKELY LETTER

As far as the admissions process goes, here is the timeline of events. All of you have hopefully begun to think about your application in one way or another (essay topics, the teachers you will be asking for recommendations, etc.). The obvious goal for all involved here would be to have your application submitted as soon as possible but PLEASE do not sacrifice ANY part of it in order to submit it quickly. As a reminder, the absolute earliest your application can be read is October 1st and typically it will take 1-3 weeks for you to obtain your likely letter. That application cannot be read until every part of your application has been submitted and that includes your standardized testing. 

Bucs Fan, THANKS so much for generously sharing this insight into the process.  It is exactly the information on timeline and sequence of events I've been trying to find -- and believe me, there's a lot of out-of-date or vague info out there on the internet.  

Another question, although it may not apply to your son since he was offered in Dec of his junior year: 

At what point did your son let other schools'  coaches know he had decided to go ED with this school?  

As you said, I am not sure it applies.   My son let everyone know right away of his "verbal commitment" and essentially shut down all other recruiting discussions.

On a related point regarding the offer timing, when did you initially have contact with the school via showcase or another route to start the process?     Was it junior year or even earlier?

catcher parent posted:

On a related point regarding the offer timing, when did you initially have contact with the school via showcase or another route to start the process?     Was it junior year or even earlier?

Much earlier.  He actually attended one of their camps Winter of his freshman year.  It was his first camp and "just to get a feel for it."  He was young, but they liked what they saw (size, project-ability).  They then saw him at HeadFirst on Long Island August before Sophomore year, again at HF August before junior year.  During this entire period, he emailed them once every 2 or 3 months with updates/videos/grades, etc.  After HF just before junior year, they let their strong interest be known but wanted their HC to see him.  So, we went to their camp October of Junior year.  He had D1 offers in hand at that time, so it all moved very quickly.  Of note, he took the SAT 2x between their camp and their offer.  Yes, 2x within about a month (whatever the dates are....Nov then Dec?).  He was 60 points short of their goal the first time but then beat it by 60 the 2nd time.

catcher parent posted:

On a related point regarding the offer timing, when did you initially have contact with the school via showcase or another route to start the process?     Was it junior year or even earlier?

CP: Welcome to the site. One of my son's goal was to attend an Ivy League school and play baseball year. His Legion coach told me son said something to the effect to him as a rising 8th grader playing 17U.

Sophomore year were his initial contacts by completing on-line recruiting questionnaires in hopes of getting on the radar. First contact was probably Showball Mega Camp his sophomore year. Interest for both parties increased around the time he ran a showcase fastest 60 time at the Mega Camp the following December his jr year. Subsequent meetings jr year were his attendance at a Camp sponsored by the school, Top96 showcase, and an additional visit to the school.  Lastly, the coaches went to a few of his HS and summer games.  As Bucs Fan mentioned, son emailed school regularly with any athletic news or academic honors/test scores/transcripts, etc.

PeaceLove&Baseball posted:

For those with sons who are playing/played for an Ivy or academic D3, could you speak to the experience of when your son's offer came through?  

And if so, did any have the nightmare scenario of having an offer revoked?  I have recently heard three stories of Ivies pulling offers at the last minute -- although the stories were all friend-of-a-friend type anecdotes and possibly (hopefully) unreliable.  

 

First Ivy offer came in late August.  Second Ivy offer came in early Sept.  He had previous mid-major D1 offers in July.  D3 offers came in Sept.

Offers get revoked for various reasons everywhere.  Situations differ and it is up to the recruit to know his competitive positioning in the recruiting process and knowing how much leverage he has....it is even more so with Ivys IHMO.  A recruit on the lower end of the Academic Index is at risk of being denied by the Admissions committee even after a pre-read.  A recruit who does not project D1 talent is at risk of being passed over for another recruit or not supported by the Coach.  It happens every year.  The recruits closest guarantee is a Likely Letter from Admissions or an Early Decision notification from Admissions....even then the recruit has to keep his grades up until graduation.   Always have a Plan B in your back pocket.  JMO.

BucsFan posted:

I know of 6-8 Ivy commits already for the 2017 class, based on PG postings and what I've heard through the grapevine.  

BucsFan -- Thanks for mentioning the PG postings, I looked them up and they were very interesting.  Right now, these are the number of 2017 Ivy commits on PG:

Cornell - 1; Columbia - 1; Dartmouth - 1; Penn - 4.  And none listed for Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Brown.  

I'm guessing that these numbers will be changing over the next couple of months -- possibly over the next couple of weeks, from what I'm hearing on this forum about getting offers in summer.  

fenwaysouth posted: 

First Ivy offer came in late August.  Second Ivy offer came in early Sept.  He had previous mid-major D1 offers in July.  D3 offers came in Sept.

Offers get revoked for various reasons everywhere.  Situations differ and it is up to the recruit to know his competitive positioning in the recruiting process and knowing how much leverage he has....it is even more so with Ivys IHMO.  A recruit on the lower end of the Academic Index is at risk of being denied by the Admissions committee even after a pre-read.  A recruit who does not project D1 talent is at risk of being passed over for another recruit or not supported by the Coach.  It happens every year.  The recruits closest guarantee is a Likely Letter from Admissions or an Early Decision notification from Admissions....even then the recruit has to keep his grades up until graduation.   Always have a Plan B in your back pocket.  JMO.

fenwaysouth -- Thanks for the great post.  What might be some of the right questions a player should ask an offering coach, to ensure the player knows his competitive positioning and how much leverage he has?  Anyone who has been through this, your advice appreciated.  

PeaceLove&Baseball posted:

I'm guessing that these numbers will be changing over the next couple of months -- possibly over the next couple of weeks, from what I'm hearing on this forum about getting offers in summer. 

Absolutely.  From now (Stanford Camp I is over, WWBA, Summer Camps at Schools Showball) to the end of August (Stanford Camp II, HeadFirst, more schools Camps) is when you will hear of many  more.  Yale has 2 commits that I've heard of that are not posted on PG.  I would not be surprised if the other schools have more than what is posted on PG as well.

If my son was fortunate enough to have an offer from an Ivy or academic D3, I would discourage him from posting it on PG until everything is signed, sealed and delivered.  Based on some of the stories above and elsewhere in this forum, nothing is certain with these types of schools until Admissions approves the application and the coach confirms the recruitment.  Yet if a kid publishes a commitment to a school on their PG profile, that eliminates all other interest in him.  There would be no fallback option if something negative happens with the application or coaches decision.

I suspect that may be the reason why there are so few commitments posted to the Ivy schools.

Backstop22 posted:

If my son was fortunate enough to have an offer from an Ivy or academic D3, I would discourage him from posting it on PG until everything is signed, sealed and delivered.  Based on some of the stories above and elsewhere in this forum, nothing is certain with these types of schools until Admissions approves the application and the coach confirms the recruitment.  Yet if a kid publishes a commitment to a school on their PG profile, that eliminates all other interest in him.  There would be no fallback option if something negative happens with the application or coaches decision.

I suspect that may be the reason why there are so few commitments posted to the Ivy schools.

Exactly.