better watch out trhit
grandslam is going to call you a name and try to put you down .
TRHit, Since we joined the site we have tried to explain the position. I think you can possibly review prior posts that cover our responses.
TRHIT The topic was the top 09 pitchers so I guess it would matter. Right now rigthly or wrongly some people consider them the top of that group, and they are giving their opinions.
TBS
I read the posts
What I said is that why worry about '09 players an have newspapewr ratings on them when nobody knows where they will or will not get to.
By the way TBS I have never received so many emails/PMs about one poster--your are setting a weekend record.
I read the posts
What I said is that why worry about '09 players an have newspapewr ratings on them when nobody knows where they will or will not get to.
By the way TBS I have never received so many emails/PMs about one poster--your are setting a weekend record.
Thanks...I think?
Grandslam
you never mentioned how you became an authority on the top 09 pitchers. What team are you with ? Have you seen all of these pitchers firsthand --more than once ? If you are not with any particular team , how were you able to see all of these pitchers perform ? Are you a scout ? Give us some criteria on how a pitcher made your list. Please let the forum know how you gathered your information.
you never mentioned how you became an authority on the top 09 pitchers. What team are you with ? Have you seen all of these pitchers firsthand --more than once ? If you are not with any particular team , how were you able to see all of these pitchers perform ? Are you a scout ? Give us some criteria on how a pitcher made your list. Please let the forum know how you gathered your information.
TBS,
The statement that I was questioning was "pre-season profiles of top team and players...They also run Top Freshman, Soph and Jr's...list."
I have never seen such a list published in the mainstream news media that list freshman and sophmore non-varsity players. Such a list would certainly be different than an article about the 2006 local high school freshman, Stacy S. Smith, the National Jr. Olympic Champion in floor exercise or the performance of a freshman wrestler punishing opponents while competing on the varsity team.
If you say that you have seen such a list for incoming freshman for basketball, I have no reason not believe you. I have not seen a such list.
If you see the top freshman prospects listed when the 2006 "season outlooks" are published for baseball this year...I would ask that you accept my apologies....gave up wagers years ago.
The statement that I was questioning was "pre-season profiles of top team and players...They also run Top Freshman, Soph and Jr's...list."
I have never seen such a list published in the mainstream news media that list freshman and sophmore non-varsity players. Such a list would certainly be different than an article about the 2006 local high school freshman, Stacy S. Smith, the National Jr. Olympic Champion in floor exercise or the performance of a freshman wrestler punishing opponents while competing on the varsity team.
If you say that you have seen such a list for incoming freshman for basketball, I have no reason not believe you. I have not seen a such list.
If you see the top freshman prospects listed when the 2006 "season outlooks" are published for baseball this year...I would ask that you accept my apologies....gave up wagers years ago.
Will do...Good call...gambling is a zero margin...always comes back to zero. I do have a stock tip for my friends here (parents that is) Buy now, anything remotely connected with satellite radio. 6 million now...30 million in five years...My Christmas gift to you...Well placed and very high level sources in the industry are buying it up fast and without reservation! (buying with reckless abandon....as the high school kids would say...like crazy) Please do not tip off TRHIT as he is not as Doc would say "my friend"!
quote:Originally posted by Travel Ball Select USA:
Please don't get me started on the academic aspect which we highlight...if someone starts criticizing that again...well were going to request that Julie expel them!
So, you want a discusson on the impact of 09 Pitchres but don't want to discuss criteria that will either allow or eliminate their ability to play. Talent simply isn't enough. Academics is one of many criteria that incoming freshmen must meet in order to play. I've seen thousands of kids with unlimited potential. However, they couldn't get the grades be it either lack of effort or lack of mental ability. Therefore they will never play HS ball. Now, if you ar referring to some pernonal attack toward some kid listed here who can't meet the requirments, then I agree. Don't attack a kid on a personal level.
Another red flag we need to consider when thinking about incoming freshmen is how many of them have pitched at 60'6" and how many have fielded at the HS distance. Our incoming freshmen play in a local league where they throw 58 feet. Those 2 feet will really matter a lot. If these distance variables are then added to the equation, I don't know how there are newspaper reportsrs that can identify those incoming freshmen who are outstanding.
Personally, I've never see a "list" in any newspaper on any prospects at the lower levels. Of course, we aren't in the Chicago area. If we have a freshman or soph that we think can earn a roster spot on the varsity, we may mention his name but that certainly doesn't construe a "list."
Regarding the "2" freshmen on the varsity level. I've never seen that and don't believe it in the by-laws. In our program the best play. I don't care if they are freshmen or seniors. JMHO!
BTW, I have one that is supposed to be a stud. He is a great kid and comes from an outstanding family. He plays for a team out of St. Louis during the summer and has received several awards. However, that means squat to me now. He has to prove he belongs. The thing is, I know he wants it that way as well.
The game is played on the field not in newsprint
CoachB25,
Grades and educational efforts should be the most important aspect of the high school experience. If the grades are not up to par, all other activities including participating in sports should be at risk. The truly great coaches have always "helped" their students prioritize such important matters. Sometimes resulting in great competitive harm to their own sports program.
Just curious coach..how many freshman have played on your varsity team over a given period of time?
Grades and educational efforts should be the most important aspect of the high school experience. If the grades are not up to par, all other activities including participating in sports should be at risk. The truly great coaches have always "helped" their students prioritize such important matters. Sometimes resulting in great competitive harm to their own sports program.
Just curious coach..how many freshman have played on your varsity team over a given period of time?
TRHit, that's a great point. Baseball is played on the field not in print. Don't worry name calling isn't my style. I was mentioning some of the top pitchers in 2005. These will be some of the best prospects going into H.S. Many others listed some other great pitchers also, including what H.S. they'll be attending. This was a great thread! As for you Sulltiger, why are you so envious about the top 09 prospects getting some well deserved recognition? These players deserve it, and no I haven't seen every top pitcher pitch in 05. That's why I asked others to list their top pitchers. I've seen many of the best, but if you can read you would've noticed many people posting even more names under my list. My son did play on a very good 14u team last year, and No I didn't mention his name. Why because he wasn't one of the top pitchers in Illinois last year. Maybe in a year or two he will be. As for none of these pitchers throwing in H.S. yet, that is correct. Although Sulltiger24 you're clueless if you think these top pitchers will see better competition this April at their H.S. then they faced last year in the elite travel games. Unlike some fathers I can be happy and be objective about an allstar pitching list that doesn't have my son's name on it. I think others could learn from that got it! This was a thread about alot of top pitching prospects entering their freshmen season. If you can't contribute to the thread stay away.
TBS, keep doing the outstanding job your company is doing. I wish 25 years ago when I was 15 (Oops I just gave my age away the big 40) that their were services that privided recognition for the top players. Good PR is always what it is. Good PR! Keep up the good work. Also, Sulltiger24, I would ask who you're but I don't think anyone cares. If you know of any additional top 09 pitchers feel free to add something productive to the board also. I'm sure many of these top 09 prospects will have great H.S. and college careers ahead of them. Many of them listed already have a huge advantage by playing on the top elite travel teams, as well as getting some good PR throughout the season.
Grandslam, I agree with alot of what you said. I feel the select few people that don't like when recognition of teams and players take place, are parents and coaches that don't receive it. It's like people that say winning isn't important. Those are usually the people that don't experience success and the winning ways. In regards to this post, there was an outstanding pitcher on the 14 year old McHenry Hurricanes last year. I don't know his name, but he should probably be mentioned with these other front line pitchers.
I've got a suggestion that might, just might, be a solution to this ongoing dilemma that the Illinois Forum is now embroiled in. If someone feels it necessary to write about 09's 10's etc, and God only knows why, let's put a High School name with players and NOT their summer teams. This is NOT,REPEAT NOT, the Travelballbaseballweb! This site is for the discussion of High School baseball and if you must infuse the discussion with these boy's travel teams when they were in 7th or 8th grade or their plans for next summer why not wait until the summer travel season approaches. This suggestion is an extension of an earlier post by sulltiger which I personally agree with.
The unveiled attempt to turn this forum into a travel ball site is both wrong and not in keeping with what Bob intended when he started this website. Finally, I don't appreciate inuendos that smack of legal action being taken for one reason or another. If there is one thing that could be the death knell for this website it is the involvement of lawyers making threats. Whew, I'm done!
The unveiled attempt to turn this forum into a travel ball site is both wrong and not in keeping with what Bob intended when he started this website. Finally, I don't appreciate inuendos that smack of legal action being taken for one reason or another. If there is one thing that could be the death knell for this website it is the involvement of lawyers making threats. Whew, I'm done!
If I read the beginning of this thread correctly, many of these top pitchers had the H.S. listed that their attending as well as their travel team. Great conversation and I think a very interesting thread. I agree with Travel Ball Select in the fact that giving credit where credits due is always a good thing. Travel baseball is as popular as ever, and lets face it until these players are playing varsity ball their first two seasons of H.S. ball especially in Illinois is average at best. No offense to my son's freshmen head coach, but he's a better math teacher than a baseball coach. In Florida we wouldn't be having this conversation, because they're playing baseball year round. AAU and American Legion baseball will get the players much more opportunities to be evaluated and scouted. That's simply a fact. Sorry if that offends any of the H.S. traditionalists. I do enjoy reading alot of stuff on this site, and unlike others I respect everyones opinion. H.S. and travel baseball are both very good.
Itsrosy, it seems that Travel Ball and HS Ball go hand in hand..Can't sweep it away! What about the dichotomy between the two. Haven't the HS coaches benefited from these kids coming out of the elite travel ball experience. It isn't necessarily a bad thing, and HS coaches aren't really losing the grip over these kids. Quite the contrary, most of the parents pay the expensive fees and place their kids with such programs in an effort to bolster their kids chance at success in HS. I'm glad to see Rebel on board...excellent insight.
The only people causing a death knell are those that confuse constructive debate with the need to lash out and potentially harm personal reputations. Everyone who is not familiar with ethical conduct should read up on it. Bottom line is...hiding behind a pseudonym does not give you the right to harm ones professional reputation nor does it protect you from the ramifications if you do. People seem to be oblivious to that fact and that in itself is a dangerous situation. (Keep it within the realm of healthy constructive debate...leave personal & professional reputations alone)
The only people causing a death knell are those that confuse constructive debate with the need to lash out and potentially harm personal reputations. Everyone who is not familiar with ethical conduct should read up on it. Bottom line is...hiding behind a pseudonym does not give you the right to harm ones professional reputation nor does it protect you from the ramifications if you do. People seem to be oblivious to that fact and that in itself is a dangerous situation. (Keep it within the realm of healthy constructive debate...leave personal & professional reputations alone)
Itsrosy
Great Points ! I tried to say the same thing earlier but to no avail. TBS -- sure the HIGH SCHOOL COACHES benefit from these players playing travel at a high level , but they want to SEE it firsthand , not constantly HEAR about it .People like Grandslam have to get it thru their heads that these kids have yet to pitch one third of an inning yet in HIGH SCHOOL . There is a big difference between giving a kid some recognition which is fine , and overpromoting , overhyping some kid on a message board . I know many fine Illinois high school coaches and i know for a fact that this type of thing is somewhat of a turnoff to them. -----Somebody please explain the benefits of overpromoting an incoming freshmen to me . Grandslam , im sure you can enlighten me on this . Hopefully none of these pitchers will buy into your less than flattering comments reguarding how good of competition awaits them this spring. Thats not the proper attitude you want an incoming freshman to have ( i pitched for elite travel team---i will breeze first year in HIGH SCHOOL ) If there are any HIGH SCHOOL coaches reading your posts they are most certainly laughing at it. Get real .
Great Points ! I tried to say the same thing earlier but to no avail. TBS -- sure the HIGH SCHOOL COACHES benefit from these players playing travel at a high level , but they want to SEE it firsthand , not constantly HEAR about it .People like Grandslam have to get it thru their heads that these kids have yet to pitch one third of an inning yet in HIGH SCHOOL . There is a big difference between giving a kid some recognition which is fine , and overpromoting , overhyping some kid on a message board . I know many fine Illinois high school coaches and i know for a fact that this type of thing is somewhat of a turnoff to them. -----Somebody please explain the benefits of overpromoting an incoming freshmen to me . Grandslam , im sure you can enlighten me on this . Hopefully none of these pitchers will buy into your less than flattering comments reguarding how good of competition awaits them this spring. Thats not the proper attitude you want an incoming freshman to have ( i pitched for elite travel team---i will breeze first year in HIGH SCHOOL ) If there are any HIGH SCHOOL coaches reading your posts they are most certainly laughing at it. Get real .
I've been mulling the apparent question and I'm not so sure that it is all that big a deal, with he possible exception of two things.
I've been hanging around here for a couple of years and there has been talk about Travel Baseball throughout that time. Norwood Blues, Lombard Lightning, Illinois Orioles, McHenry Hurricanes, Top Tier, White Sox Academy...the list goes on. My son has personally benefited from my hearing about these things. However, I have not seen before the blatant hyping of an organization (I'm still not really sure what Travel Baseball Select is) such as our new freind TBS has done. I don't think our neighbor from Oak Brook would even deny this. For those who are unhappy about this barrage, I guess it will have to be ignored.
Secondly, there seems to be a great interest in the incoming Freshman Class, which isn't a bad thing. As someone who has had two sons play in a strong HS Program and some College Baseball, it is sometimes not fun for this old-timer to hear that things have changed in the 2 years since my youngest son went from travel to HS so much that I no longer know what's going on. This class of '09 has had more names dropped in a month than has the other classes '03-'08 ever have since I've been here. Most parents before this point have not dropped their own son's names but rather accepted compliments or questions from other posters. I consider it bad form to talk your own kid up here...mostly because you don't have to...others will talk about him if it is justified. I'm hoping that this '09 name dropping is not coming from the dads.
Anyway, welcome to the '09s and all others who have interest....the more the merrier....civility and a little levity go a long way here. We can learn.
I've been hanging around here for a couple of years and there has been talk about Travel Baseball throughout that time. Norwood Blues, Lombard Lightning, Illinois Orioles, McHenry Hurricanes, Top Tier, White Sox Academy...the list goes on. My son has personally benefited from my hearing about these things. However, I have not seen before the blatant hyping of an organization (I'm still not really sure what Travel Baseball Select is) such as our new freind TBS has done. I don't think our neighbor from Oak Brook would even deny this. For those who are unhappy about this barrage, I guess it will have to be ignored.
Secondly, there seems to be a great interest in the incoming Freshman Class, which isn't a bad thing. As someone who has had two sons play in a strong HS Program and some College Baseball, it is sometimes not fun for this old-timer to hear that things have changed in the 2 years since my youngest son went from travel to HS so much that I no longer know what's going on. This class of '09 has had more names dropped in a month than has the other classes '03-'08 ever have since I've been here. Most parents before this point have not dropped their own son's names but rather accepted compliments or questions from other posters. I consider it bad form to talk your own kid up here...mostly because you don't have to...others will talk about him if it is justified. I'm hoping that this '09 name dropping is not coming from the dads.
Anyway, welcome to the '09s and all others who have interest....the more the merrier....civility and a little levity go a long way here. We can learn.
Sulltiger24, it seems your opinion isn't shared by many in this thread. Considering many people including a respected comapany such as TBS has named many of the top pitchers in the 09 class. Sorry you feel giving great players some recognition isn't a good thing, or if the list of top players doesn'r suit you. I think my last few posts still haven't sunk into your head yet. Like I said, if you can't contribute to a thread stay away. The only people that are laughing are the ones reading your posts.
Rebel, I'm not sure who the pitcher is that your talking about from McHenry. The McHenry team had two teams last year at the 14u level. Was the pitcher from the Hurricanes or Cobras? The Cobras had a really good hard throwing righty.
quote:Originally posted by lsc59:
CoachB25, Just curious coach..how many freshman have played on your varsity team over a given period of time?
I've lettered at least one freshman every year here. Most have been pitchers. They have contributed either key innings pitched or have earned a start here or there. Most have done the former. (Say we have a big lead and need to save arms, we've tried to work them in for experience and to save our staff.) Few the latter. All of these young men have gone on to pitch in college. One young man played as our designated runner for our catcher. He stole 14 bases on the varsity his freshman year while also playing a full freshman schedule. I've had only one start 4 years as a position player. He was All-State his senior year. BTW, he took that spot away from an all-conference player that didn't work hard enough to keep his spot.
Grandslam
save your immature bullying tactics for someone else . If you dont know how to respond to something you disagree with..dont respond at all.
save your immature bullying tactics for someone else . If you dont know how to respond to something you disagree with..dont respond at all.
Coach...very interesting. At our school (Barrington High School) I can think of 2 or 3 Frosh who even got playing time on the Varsity in the last 10 or so years. All 3 played or are playing D-1 baseball.
Coach B25,
Thanks for the insight into my question. It is the special player indeed that secures a starting postion as a freshman. Meaning no offense to you or your program, and correct me if I am wrong, it seems even more rare that a freshman will become a starter at many of the major high schools located in the Chicagoland area. This is due to the number of talented players available because of high levels of school enrollment.
Schools for instance, such as Downers Grove South have in excess of 3300 students. The last freshman that lettered in varsity baseball at DGS, I believe was Ryan Lierman. That was at least eight years ago or maybe nine. Ryan was drafted by the White Sox and now plays for maybe the Rockford independent team? There have been more than a few "stud" player pass through the gate since that time.
My point is, most if not all of the '09 will not see the varsity field next year at the high school level. Not at the bigger or more established schools. Most if not all, to be quite honest, are not better than the varsity players selected. They might be in a year or two or three but not on March 1st, 2006.
Grandslam1, I personally believe that good things said about any player is o.k. I am sure
the 09 class are talented group and deserve exposure. So will the 10 class.(I hope we don't hear about the 10 class for at least a little while). That being said, Sulltigers point was a good one. (read it again tomorrow after the mortars die down) The fact is no ones going to be reporting on the dominating force of the '09 class in Illinois high school baseball in the Daily Herald, Sun-Times or Tribune this spring. Maybe in a few years.
Thanks for the insight into my question. It is the special player indeed that secures a starting postion as a freshman. Meaning no offense to you or your program, and correct me if I am wrong, it seems even more rare that a freshman will become a starter at many of the major high schools located in the Chicagoland area. This is due to the number of talented players available because of high levels of school enrollment.
Schools for instance, such as Downers Grove South have in excess of 3300 students. The last freshman that lettered in varsity baseball at DGS, I believe was Ryan Lierman. That was at least eight years ago or maybe nine. Ryan was drafted by the White Sox and now plays for maybe the Rockford independent team? There have been more than a few "stud" player pass through the gate since that time.
My point is, most if not all of the '09 will not see the varsity field next year at the high school level. Not at the bigger or more established schools. Most if not all, to be quite honest, are not better than the varsity players selected. They might be in a year or two or three but not on March 1st, 2006.
Grandslam1, I personally believe that good things said about any player is o.k. I am sure
the 09 class are talented group and deserve exposure. So will the 10 class.(I hope we don't hear about the 10 class for at least a little while). That being said, Sulltigers point was a good one. (read it again tomorrow after the mortars die down) The fact is no ones going to be reporting on the dominating force of the '09 class in Illinois high school baseball in the Daily Herald, Sun-Times or Tribune this spring. Maybe in a few years.
quote:Originally posted by lsc59:
Coach B25,
Thanks for the insight into my question. It is the special player indeed that secures a starting postion as a freshman. Meaning no offense to you or your program, and correct me if I am wrong, it seems even more rare that a freshman will become a starter at many of the major high schools located in the Chicagoland area. This is due to the number of talented players available because of high levels of school enrollment.
No offense at all taken. Our enrollment has just surpassed 1,300 this year. We've do play several schools such as Edwardsville each year with enrollments of 2,400+. At those schools in the Southwestern Conference (Edwardsville, Bellevelle East and West, O'Fallon...) rarely do they have a freshman dress. Simply put, we have to bring along a young one or two to give us experience from year to year. Certainly not the case in your area. If we can get 5+ strategic innings in the course of a year from a freshman, we then ensure some continuity the next year since that freshman is also practicing with the varsity and traveling with us when he doesn't have a freshman or JV game. This has been one of the many ways we've been able to keep up with the big boys. JMHO!
CoachB25,
You certainly keep up and more. Very impressive program indeed. Some think its the water...I have a different viewpoint.
You certainly keep up and more. Very impressive program indeed. Some think its the water...I have a different viewpoint.
Grandslam, the pitcher I mentioned was on the McHenry Hurricanes. A 6'0 lefthander. Should be in the same category with all these other top pitchers that were mentioned. Anyways, this was a solid thread. I think a few people missed the point. It was never said by any of the people that posted some of the top 09 prospects in this thread that these pitchers would be the best in 4 years. It was said these are the best potential prospects, because of their fine 05 seasons on elite travel baseball teams. Remember alot of these pitchers will get alot more recognition and will get scouted much more playing on elite travel programs as well as summer ball teams, rather then playing local conference school games. That's just a fact.
Rebel222,
No disrespect. Your statement is not fact and if you have been told as much you have either been mislead or you have not been through the recruitment process. It is not that simple. Probably a great subject for a different thread.
No disrespect. Your statement is not fact and if you have been told as much you have either been mislead or you have not been through the recruitment process. It is not that simple. Probably a great subject for a different thread.
My son played on one of those "Elite Travel Teams" last summer and as someone else said before played 95% of the time in front of Mom, Dad and girlfreinds......that's just a fact.
Isr59, I respectfully disagree with you. I have not been misinformed. There's some very good H.S. teams and programs, and there's some very bad H.S. teams and programs. The same is to be said for travel teams. That's what makes it so interesting. Everybody can't be good. The top players will be playing on top travel programs from 15 thru 18. Especially now. There's so many advantages to doing so. The competition is so strong when you travel to play top teavel teams around the country. You can't tell me that top 18u travel teams such as Upper Deck, TT, and N. Blues don't provide better exposure and the ability to allow their players more scouting opportunites then certain H.S. teams. Most freshmen and sophomore ball can't even come close to the elite 15 and 16u travel programs. That's for sure. Though like I stated in an earlier post, both Travel and H.S. baseball are good for all players. Play the game as much as you can. I would like to debate this with you somemore, but I don't live on this site like some of you guys. I only visit it.
Rebel222,
I am assuming that you are still on the site since you just posted. I am enjoying my day off and the chance to do whatever I want to do today. It was a whole three days since I last posted.
I am sorry that I did not realize that you were so experience in the recruiting process. My mistake. Good luck at the tournaments.
I am assuming that you are still on the site since you just posted. I am enjoying my day off and the chance to do whatever I want to do today. It was a whole three days since I last posted.
I am sorry that I did not realize that you were so experience in the recruiting process. My mistake. Good luck at the tournaments.
I agree fastball that is most of those teams.
lineshot/fastball
It all depends on who and where you play every weekend
That is what makes the difference in programs
It all depends on who and where you play every weekend
That is what makes the difference in programs
That is profound!
TR, the who being the most important to me.
Coach,
Pretty tough to play up here in this area,
Must be because of all our five tool players..lol
Coach,
Pretty tough to play up here in this area,
Must be because of all our five tool players..lol
quote:Originally posted by deucedoc:
TR, the who being the most important to me.
Coach,
Pretty tough to play up here in this area,
Must be because of all our five tool players..lol
Down here, only two tool players. However I make sure one of those tools isn't a screwdriver. TOO SHARP! lol!
Coach, Ive been in that same toolbox....
Two tools, three, four, five? Not sure how many my son has (if any) but he's used them all on his younger sister over this Christmas break. Bouncing off the walls...should have made him play basketball. It's time to PLAY BALL!!! By my count its 65 (+/-) days until the true test begins!