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The new Winter portal opened yesterday and closes on the 15th.  Lots of players already in and most are from HA schools from the IVY and Patriot League which is very surprising to me.  There are some new rules that will allow players to be eligible immediately this Spring.  I wonder if being a non scholarship player allows someone to be eligible immediately?  Are some of these HA kids going to be better places or were they just walk ons that gave it a shot?  I'd appreciate it if anyone has any insight as to what is going on.  Toi give those who don't have access some examples, Bucknell has 10, Brown 3, Cornell 6, Holy Cross 7, Penn 9.   Those numbers seem way out of the norm to me, but maybe there is a logical explanation?

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@d-mac posted:

The new Winter portal opened yesterday and closes on the 15th.  Lots of players already in and most are from HA schools from the IVY and Patriot League which is very surprising to me.  There are some new rules that will allow players to be eligible immediately this Spring.  I wonder if being a non scholarship player allows someone to be eligible immediately?  Are some of these HA kids going to be better places or were they just walk ons that gave it a shot?  I'd appreciate it if anyone has any insight as to what is going on.  Toi give those who don't have access some examples, Bucknell has 10, Brown 3, Cornell 6, Holy Cross 7, Penn 9.   Those numbers seem way out of the norm to me, but maybe there is a logical explanation?

Graduate transfers.

Ivy graduate students are not eligible to participate. May be true of Patriot schools as well--certainly true for Army and Navy but of course they have a military obligation to fulfill before any hopes of grad school!

Of course this will die down once the extra COVID-eligibility years are used up. You may still see one or two who could have red-shirted during their 4 years of academics and are looking to continue playing out their eligibility at a school that accepts graduate transfers. There have been quite a few Ivy graduate transfers the last two years and you can expect the same for the next two seasons (2024 and 2025).

@ABSORBER posted:

Graduate transfers.

Ivy graduate students are not eligible to participate. May be true of Patriot schools as well--certainly true for Army and Navy but of course they have a military obligation to fulfill before any hopes of grad school!

So the students did one semester of a grad program at these schools, found out they couldn't play baseball after they enrolled, and are now seeking to transfer?

Genuine question, not being snarky.

@SpeedDemon posted:

So the students did one semester of a grad program at these schools, found out they couldn't play baseball after they enrolled, and are now seeking to transfer?

Genuine question, not being snarky.

No, they will play for their Ivy teams this Spring (2023), then graduate (they are all seniors), and then attend graduate school in Fall 2023 if they can get a baseball commitment.

@SpeedDemon posted:

Got it.

Strange though that the transfer portal is open now for play year-and-a-quarter from now. Does it open again after the spring season? Thanks.

I am not really familiar with that aspect. Until I saw the OP's post I assumed it was already opened for the following year. D1 Baseball lists the portals via years (2021, 2022, 2023, etc.). They also have this to say (regarding the 2023 portal) on their website:

"With the NCAA voting last April to allow one-time transfers in all college sports, the ability to transfer freely without sitting out returned to Division I baseball last summer. You can view the 2022 Transfer Tracker, here.

With that, we again expect a hefty number of players to enter the Transfer Portal between now and next fall. Players will have until July 1 to announce their intentions to leave their previous programs."

They have listed the 2023 portal for a while now and it is slowly growing. I'm sure it will grow quickly since Fall ball is wrapping or is already wrapped up. The grad transfers are the first to enter--so clearly it opened up before yesterday.

So perhaps it opens and closes several times?

@ABSORBER posted:

Folks can poke fun at Brown all they want but those players (especially those that started and played every game for their team) will have the last laugh as they are walking away with an Ivy education.

If they don't care about getting pounded in baseball for four years, you're right. There are other avenues than Ivies to end up with a quality career and make a lot of money. A kid who can play at Brown can likely star at a NESCAC and be on the same academic/career track.

@RJM posted:

If they don't care about getting pounded in baseball for four years, you're right. There are other avenues than Ivies to end up with a quality career and make a lot of money. A kid who can play at Brown can likely star at a NESCAC and be on the same academic/career track.

Pounded? That's not a very accurate description. They finished 6th in the Ivy last season. Show me some examples.

https://ivyleague.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=3688

Winning is great but competing is much more important to an individual player.

@ABSORBER posted:

Pounded? That's not a very accurate description. They finished 6th in the Ivy last season. Show me some examples.

https://ivyleague.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=3688

Winning is great but competing is much more important to an individual player.

Google Brown baseball history. Their last winning season was 2009. Almost everyone on this board knows Brown baseball is a joke.

I don't expect a lot of the P5s to have guys in now.  They can't play this year if they move to another D1, and the school can't take their scholarship if they finish the year.  I think most of the guys going in now, will be guys without athletic money, other non rostered guys will be gray shirted or red shirted...they will likely show up in July.  I may be wrong, but if you go D1, to JUCO, you don't have to enter the portal and can play in the spring?

@ABSORBER posted:

No, they will play for their Ivy teams this Spring (2023), then graduate (they are all seniors), and then attend graduate school in Fall 2023 if they can get a baseball commitment.

So the players in there now from the Ivy will play for their current school this upcoming 2023 season - then use their eligibility in 2024 elsewhere? Basically they are going into the portal a season before they will leave ?

So the players in there now from the Ivy will play for their current school this upcoming 2023 season - then use their eligibility in 2024 elsewhere? Basically they are going into the portal a season before they will leave ?

Players entering the portal now are not going to be playing on new teams for the 2022-2023 season.  They are looking for a commitment for the 2023-2024 season.

Are there diff requirements for teams offering scholarships to grad transfers?  Or does the team have more leeway now that players are graduates where the team can do what they want when they want???

(Should have started new thread, wasn't certain if worthy).

Son is at a NESCAC looking at grad transfer to a Big East.  One of the coaches mentioned they hold off until after fall ball to offer scholarships to grad transfers.  Wouldn't that suggest they won't be offering roster spots to grad transfers?  My son is already accepted at the school; we can make the money work for his grad program....I was simple thinking of the inference between no scholarship offer till after fall means you're not going to be offered a roster spot right now????

Son is going to the school regardless, and I know cuts and roster decisions are made late in the fall anyway.  This seems a bit different.

Any thoughts on this?  Thank you in advance

Last edited by Gov

Good question @Gov I’m interested in seeing the responses.  I’m probably the least qualified to weigh in, as I just let my son deal with everything and we haven’t had a “sit down” to determine what we’ll do.

Son is in the portal for a grad year, as his school doesn’t have a grad program.  He has received significant interest from many schools.  Some have verbally provided aide, but I’m not sure if it’s academic or athletic aide.  Those that haven’t, I just assume they’re keeping a communication line open.  Some aide offers have been quite high, so I assume they’re either athletic/academic combos or maybe different rules apply, per your question.

There doesn’t appear to be pressure for him to sign.  I’m not sure why a school would, as things will really open up in the summer, where they’ll be in the driver seat.

I’m torn whether I want him to play another year, or just move on, so I’m just being patient with how things will play out.

@Gov

My opinion is that many grads do not  receive athletic $$ from most D1 programs.

It might depend on the position need and perhaps if NIL money is available to cover expenses. I think the creation of NIL collectives has created grad opportunities.

A mid D1 HC told me that he only offers to grads from his program and that's far and few between.

@TPM posted:

@Gov

My opinion is that many grads do not  receive athletic $$ from most D1 programs.

It might depend on the position need and perhaps if NIL money is available to cover expenses. I think the creation of NIL collectives has created grad opportunities.

A mid D1 HC told me that he only offers to grads from his program and that's far and few between.

Thank you.  We actually didn't even think scholarships were available to grad's at all.  Wasn't till the coach said something at the workout the past weekend.   

Approximately 400 players in the transfer portal as of today per D1 baseball.

Many of them won’t find another place to play. The portal only benefits a small percentage of those that enter.

Moral of the story : Do your homework to understand the recruiting process, make sure you go fishing in the right pond, don’t be in a hurry to commit, be willing to adjust your plan based on changing conditions.

It’s a really good time to be one of the very best players in college baseball. It’s a very difficult time to be anything less than that.

@adbono posted:

Approximately 400 players in the transfer portal as of today per D1 baseball.

Many of them won’t find another place to play. The portal only benefits a small percentage of those that enter.

Moral of the story : Do your homework to understand the recruiting process, make sure you go fishing in the right pond, don’t be in a hurry to commit, be willing to adjust your plan based on changing conditions.

It’s a really good time to be one of the very best players in college baseball. It’s a very difficult time to be anything less than that.

Is that a fall thing because they can't play D1 anywhere else? Do you mean at the D1 level or ever? This is anecdotal, but most of the kids I know that entered the portal over the summer when my son entered are playing somewhere...if they wanted to (many didn't). I can't imagine a a lot of situations where a D1 player that is cut can't get on an NCAA/NAIA *somewhere*.

Last edited by nycdad

I've been wondering if the transfer portal has made things better.  After all, kids wanted to be free to move to greener pastures, just as coaches have been able to.  How can this not be better for the players.  I'm not the quickest to figure things out sometimes, but I think I now understand what others have been saying... The portal helps the best players find new homes without sitting out a year, and it helps the best teams reload immediately.  Everyone else seems to get screwed.

@TPM posted:

Curious to see the #s coming from those programs that over recruited.

I took the time this weekend to look through all of the rosters of the few D1 schools that have been communicating with my 2024.   It is shocking to look at Perfect Game Commitment list from 2019 and 2020 and see how few of the players on those list that still have their name on those schools rosters.   I have found Collegebaseballinsights.com to be a good tool, but it's a little more real when you look at names and pictures instead of just looking at numbers.   

I was having a conversation with my son this morning and we were discussing the importance of being comfortable with a school and not just a baseball program.  Just looking at the statistics, the chances of a player signing and continuing with a D1 school for four years in their baseball program is rather slim.    My wife chimed in with the typical parent response, "but our son is a really good pitcher and these school that are talking to him really want him in their program."   I had to remind her that, the parents of all of those kids that are not long on that teams roster probably said the same thing when their child was being recruited.

There are a lot of names in that D1baseball.com transfer portal.  You never know the situation that led to those names being there.  It seems that some of the names are players that have another year of eligibility and want to do a graduate transfer at another school in order to play another year or in many cases, to play for a school that has a graduate program that they want to attend.   I'm sure that there are some that put their name in the Transfer portal to move up to a more competitive program, but I would imagine that the majority of names in the TP are there because things didn't go as they had hoped and anticipated with the school that they signed with.   

Last edited by Ster
@Ster posted:

I took the time this weekend to look through all of the rosters of the few D1 schools that have been communicating with my 2024.   It is shocking to look at Perfect Game Commitment list from 2019 and 2020 and see how few of the players on those list that still have their name on those schools rosters.   I have found Collegebaseballinsights.com to be a good tool, but it's a little more real when you look at names and pictures instead of just looking at numbers.   

I was having a conversation with my son this morning and we were discussing the importance of being comfortable with a school and not just a baseball program.  Just looking at the statistics, the chances of a player signing and continuing with a D1 school for four years in their baseball program is rather slim.    My wife chimed in with the typical parent response, "but our son is a really good pitcher and these school that are talking to him really want him in their program."   I had to remind her that, the parents of all of those kids that are not long on that teams roster probably said the same thing when their child was being recruited.

There are a lot of names in that D1baseball.com transfer portal.  You never know the situation that led to those names being there.   I'm sure that there are some that put their name in the Transfer portal to move up to a more competitive program, but I would imagine that the majority of names in the TP are there because things didn't go as they had hoped and anticipated with the school that they signed with.   

All the transfer portal did was bring transferring out of the closet and out in the open. My son played before the portal. Without overrecruiting a typical spring roster was approximately fourteen freshmen, seven sophs, seven juniors and seven seniors. Only eighteen to twenty players will be contributors. All thirty-five players believe it will be them. Reality and the numbers don't match. Half who went in believing they were the cant miss studs, and pro prospects ended up transferring.

@Ster

Nice post. Two main things, IMO, that changed college sports, covid and allowing players to transfer without penalty (sitting a year), which I think is a very good thing.

I agree with you, the portal is more than likely full of players that have eligibility left, were predominetly walk ons  who may have rarely played and put themselves in the portal. Getting an opportunity to get some grad credits in is a good thing. Why not go for it!

Your son, as others, probably has a better chance of being in the lineup everyday at a mid D1 and then transfering if and when he proves that he can crack a top D1 or P5 lineup. No sense going to a top 50 program if you are going to sit.

When things change, you have to make changes, JMO.

@Ster posted:

I took the time this weekend to look through all of the rosters of the few D1 schools that have been communicating with my 2024.   It is shocking to look at Perfect Game Commitment list from 2019 and 2020 and see how few of the players on those list that still have their name on those schools rosters.   I have found Collegebaseballinsights.com to be a good tool, but it's a little more real when you look at names and pictures instead of just looking at numbers.   

I was having a conversation with my son this morning and we were discussing the importance of being comfortable with a school and not just a baseball program.  Just looking at the statistics, the chances of a player signing and continuing with a D1 school for four years in their baseball program is rather slim.    My wife chimed in with the typical parent response, "but our son is a really good pitcher and these school that are talking to him really want him in their program."   I had to remind her that, the parents of all of those kids that are not long on that teams roster probably said the same thing when their child was being recruited.

...

I've done similar reviews for my 2024.  I told my wife that roughly half of the HS class of 2024 PG Commitments will not be on that spring college baseball season roster their freshman year (spring '25), and another half of that will not be on the roster for the spring the next year (spring '26).  ... my rough estimate, only 1/3rd of those HS class of 2024 PG verbal commits will be on "that college" roster three years from now.  I've told my son before he made his verbal commitment ... "don't expect me to pay 100% of the tuition for you to stay, if you get cut from the baseball program after your first year".  These boys get to grow up a lot faster than I did.

Below is my analysis of the roster of the school my son is going to next year (D1 mid major). I grabbed all the commitments I can find in PG and PBR since 2018 and see which names are still in the current 2023 roster.  I get the data below.  If you don't count the 2022 commits, then the average is 20% retention (only 20% of all commits since 2018 is still in the current roster).

Here's the table that shows how many of their current rosters are transferees broken down by class.  The positive news is that most of the transferee came from Jucos (13 out of 20 transferees).

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@atlnon posted:

Below is my analysis of the roster of the school my son is going to next year (D1 mid major). I grabbed all the commitments I can find in PG and PBR since 2018 and see which names are still in the current 2023 roster.  I get the data below.  If you don't count the 2022 commits, then the average is 20% retention (only 20% of all commits since 2018 is still in the current roster).

Here's the table that shows how many of their current rosters are transferees broken down by class.  The positive news is that most of the transferee came from Jucos (13 out of 20 transferees).

That 20% sounds socking, but from what I have seen from doing similar deep dives and analysis of some D-1 Mid-majors, this is the norm.   

@mjd-dad posted:

I've done similar reviews for my 2024.  I told my wife that roughly half of the HS class of 2024 PG Commitments will not be on that spring college baseball season roster their freshman year (spring '25), and another half of that will not be on the roster for the spring the next year (spring '26).  ... my rough estimate, only 1/3rd of those HS class of 2024 PG verbal commits will be on "that college" roster three years from now.  I've told my son before he made his verbal commitment ... "don't expect me to pay 100% of the tuition for you to stay, if you get cut from the baseball program after your first year".  These boys get to grow up a lot faster than I did.

You bring up a very valid point about covering the cost of college attendance.   And, it is an issue that as a parent, I have to take into consideration when discussing recruiting and offers with my 2024.   @atlnon's post above appears to be the norm and not the exception.   From what I have seen evaluating signing classes and rosters, only about 4 to 5 players in a mid-major signing class of 12 will finish on the baseball roster in their Sr. year.   So, if you are a parent with a recruit holding an offer of 60% tuition + books, then you are on the hook for future cost of attendance should your son fall in that 75% attrition category before the Sr. season. 

I realize that no one wants to look at this with a defeated mindset, but I find it prudent to at least consider all of the "what if" scenarios.   So, we will have a conversation about D1 attrition, and how perhaps that is significantly less likely among the D2 and D3 programs.   

I already told my son that whatever school he picks, it has to be a school that we are in a position to be able to afford w/o athletic scholarship.  The fact that he chose to go the academic scholarship route is a step in the right direction in my opinion (even though I know some people here think it was the wrong decision to go with academic instead of athletic money).  We looked at the profile of the players in the roster and we concluded that he is at the same level as those kids when they were seniors in HS.  At this point, we have to go in believing he can be (or will be) one of the 20% that will make it, but be prepared financially if not.

@Ster posted:

You bring up a very valid point about covering the cost of college attendance.   And, it is an issue that as a parent, I have to take into consideration when discussing recruiting and offers with my 2024.   @atlnon's post above appears to be the norm and not the exception.   From what I have seen evaluating signing classes and rosters, only about 4 to 5 players in a mid-major signing class of 12 will finish on the baseball roster in their Sr. year.   So, if you are a parent with a recruit holding an offer of 60% tuition + books, then you are on the hook for future cost of attendance should your son fall in that 75% attrition category before the Sr. season.

I realize that no one wants to look at this with a defeated mindset, but I find it prudent to at least consider all of the "what if" scenarios.   So, we will have a conversation about D1 attrition, and how perhaps that is significantly less likely among the D2 and D3 programs.   

Don't be so sure that roster attrition is less at other levels, particularly top-tier D2s...

@atlnon posted:

I already told my son that whatever school he picks, it has to be a school that we are in a position to be able to afford w/o athletic scholarship.  The fact that he chose to go the academic scholarship route is a step in the right direction in my opinion (even though I know some people here think it was the wrong decision to go with academic instead of athletic money).  We looked at the profile of the players in the roster and we concluded that he is at the same level as those kids when they were seniors in HS.  At this point, we have to go in believing he can be (or will be) one of the 20% that will make it, but be prepared financially if not.

The challenge of being in that 20% is only one part of the financial equation.  Remember that scholarships are generally one year commitments.  You may be one of the few that figures it out and makes it to spring your freshman year, then you find out at the end of May that they want you back, but not at the same monetary commitment they made to you for year 1.  That 60% can get to 25%  really quick.

College baseball is a cut throat business and young men get thrown in that fire quickly.  Study hard and always leave yourself with options outside of the situation you start with.  That situation WILL change..

@atlnon posted:

I already told my son that whatever school he picks, it has to be a school that we are in a position to be able to afford w/o athletic scholarship.  The fact that he chose to go the academic scholarship route is a step in the right direction in my opinion (even though I know some people here think it was the wrong decision to go with academic instead of athletic money).  We looked at the profile of the players in the roster and we concluded that he is at the same level as those kids when they were seniors in HS.  At this point, we have to go in believing he can be (or will be) one of the 20% that will make it, but be prepared financially if not.

But if he was no longer able to play on the team, would he want to continue to attend that school and give up baseball?

@nycdad posted:

But if he was no longer able to play on the team, would he want to continue to attend that school and give up baseball?

Maybe not.  But at least he has the option then.  At that point, he may decide that it's time to move on from baseball.  If so, at least he doesn't have the added stress of losing his athletic scholarship.  He can transition to being a normal student without worrying whether he can afford to stay in college or not.

This conversation makes me feel better about going the academic scholarship route.  At least that is more in my son's control as long as he maintains his grades.

@atlnon posted:

Maybe not.  But at least he has the option then.  At that point, he may decide that it's time to move on from baseball.  If so, at least he doesn't have the added stress of losing his athletic scholarship.  He can transition to being a normal student without worrying whether he can afford to stay in college or not.

This conversation makes me feel better about going the academic scholarship route.  At least that is more in my son's control as long as he maintains his grades.

I think that you are being wise, and I believe that this topic is something that in my conversations with other parents in travel baseball circles are seldom consider.   I guess we as parents of athletic children are just wired to believe that our sons have excelled in every endeavor of baseball, and that the notion that they might be cut from a roster or have their athletic scholarship reduced due to performance isn't something that crosses the mind during the recruitment process.   

For an example, there is a HA D1 school that offers 80% athletic scholarship to a recruit.  The schools total cost of attendance is in excess of $70k a year.   If after the first season the coaching staff decides to reduce that athletic award to 25% then that totally changes a families affordability level.

Last edited by Ster
@Ster posted:

I think that you are being wise, and I believe that this topic is something that in my conversations with other parents in travel baseball circles are seldom consider.   I guess we as parents of athletic children are just wired to believe that our sons have excelled in every endeavor of baseball, and that the notion that they might be cut from a roster or have their athletic scholarship reduced due to performance isn't something that crosses the mind during the recruitment process.   

For an example, there is a HA D1 school that offers 80% athletic scholarship to a recruit.  The schools total cost of attendance is in excess of $70k a year.   If after the first season the coaching staff decides to reduce that athletic award to 25% then that totally changes a families affordability level.

One of the option for my son is a HA school around that price tag.  This was one of our biggest consideration (the ability to afford it w/o athletic scholarship). I'm sure we can find a way to pay for it. But I don't think paying $70k/yr for school is worth it considering there are $30k/yr options.  These options may not be HA and "prestigious" but it's more than enough to have a good career. And my son is not the HA type. If he is, then it may be worth the cost (still not convinced of this either - still not sure what you get out of a prestigious liberal arts degree vs. a more practical degree from a normal state university).

@Ster posted:

I think that you are being wise, and I believe that this topic is something that in my conversations with other parents in travel baseball circles are seldom consider.   I guess we as parents of athletic children are just wired to believe that our sons have excelled in every endeavor of baseball, and that the notion that they might be cut from a roster or have their athletic scholarship reduced due to performance isn't something that crosses the mind during the recruitment process.   

For an example, there is a HA D1 school that offers 80% athletic scholarship to a recruit.  The schools total cost of attendance is in excess of $70k a year.   If after the first season the coaching staff decides to reduce that athletic award to 25% then that totally changes a families affordability level.

This is why I always preach on here and in personal conversations with families you better have a plan B because no one is a guarantee no matter how successful they have been.  There is always someone out there who can be better.  And in today's world it may be someone who transfers in and takes your spot that you thought was a given.

I know a P5 guy that has waited through the process and won the starting role in his position for the spring.  Then out of the blue, to him, a guy is coming in during the break that no one knew about who is a stud at his position.  The guy never had a plan B and his dream probably just got busted.  He has already burnt his redshirt year so he will burn another spring this year until he can transfer or hope that next year is his year.  Always have a plan B

Re athletic versus academic money

From a baseball standpoint it’s always better to have athletic money. It means the coach is invested in the player. But, what overrides everything is can the kid afford to be at the school. If there’s more academic money than athletic money available it’s hard not to take the academic money.

For kids who can meet the eligibility threshold the best scenario is qualifying for both.  It’s important to emphasize this to kids early in high school.

If a kid isn’t receiving athletic money chances are he’s starting off as player 28-35 on the roster assuming he makes the spring roster. If the player doesn’t stick with the team the first year or long term he’ll never forget. The coach won’t remember the kid’s name next week.

@atlnon posted:

One of the option for my son is a HA school around that price tag.  This was one of our biggest consideration (the ability to afford it w/o athletic scholarship). I'm sure we can find a way to pay for it. But I don't think paying $70k/yr for school is worth it considering there are $30k/yr options.  These options may not be HA and "prestigious" but it's more than enough to have a good career. And my son is not the HA type. If he is, then it may be worth the cost (still not convinced of this either - still not sure what you get out of a prestigious liberal arts degree vs. a more practical degree from a normal state university).

There is a ton of data available that clearly shows early and mid-career salaries are higher from various prestigious universities. Many sites even let you sort the data by a specific major. Companies target grads from certain schools and are willing to pay top dollar to land them. It doesn't mean someone can't have a successful career, but it certainly does give them an advantage when starting their career or landing that dream job. Is it worth the difference in paying $70k+ or $30k+, that is up to the individual.

Anyone that is about to make a decision on attending college/what college to attend should be doing a cost/benefit analysis that includes ROI. Unless money is no object. If done honestly it will be an eye opening exercise for many. Things have really changed since most of us went to college. The curriculum is not as challenging and the price tag has increased at a pace like no other industry. You are paying way more now and getting way less - unless you are pursuing a specialized degree. For those that incur a mountain of student loan debt (and you should all be asking why this is encouraged - if you don’t already know) a general studies college degree is likely not a good investment of a young adult’s time or money.

There is a ton of data available that clearly shows early and mid-career salaries are higher from various prestigious universities. Many sites even let you sort the data by a specific major. Companies target grads from certain schools and are willing to pay top dollar to land them. It doesn't mean someone can't have a successful career, but it certainly does give them an advantage when starting their career or landing that dream job. Is it worth the difference in paying $70k+ or $30k+, that is up to the individual.

I can add a little to this discussion.  I use to sit on a Dental School admissions committee.   I can tell you with first hand experience that where you go to school absolutely is factored into whether or not someone applying to one of these post graduate professional schools is admitted.   

My 2024 has expressed to me his desire to purse a dental degree after college.   I told him that I can't help him throw a better curveball, but I can absolutely give him solid advice on what it takes to get into dental school, and where he goes to school plays a major role in that process.   

In this case, going to an HA private school absolutely matters.  Can you get into dental school from less prestigious State colleges and Universities?  Absolutely you can, but if you want to be in the best position possible for admittance then it's better to be at one of the HA colleges or Universities. 

@Ster posted:

I can add a little to this discussion.  I use to sit on a Dental School admissions committee.   I can tell you with first hand experience that where you go to school absolutely is factored into whether or not someone applying to one of these post graduate professional schools is admitted.   

My 2024 has expressed to me his desire to purse a dental degree after college.   I told him that I can't help him throw a better curveball, but I can absolutely give him solid advice on what it takes to get into dental school, and where he goes to school plays a major role in that process.   

In this case, going to an HA private school absolutely matters.  Can you get into dental school from less prestigious State colleges and Universities?  Absolutely you can, but if you want to be in the best position possible for admittance then it's better to be at one of the HA colleges or Universities.

I guess my experience is colored being in IT.  When I interview people, I don't even look at or ask where they went to school. Most important thing we care about is their experience, how they think (do they have an analytical/curious/consultative mind), and their attitude (humble, willing to learn, ability to handle failure).  I can't remember the last time someone asked me what my degree was or where I graduated.

When my son was being recruited by HA liberal arts colleges, I look at the degrees and majors they offer and I can't understand what someone will do with a $70k/yr English or History degree.  I can see the value in terms of the relationship and connections you create - but not convinced that you can't get to the same place at a much cheaper cost.

I'm already struggling with my son going out of state (having to pay the out of state fee).  The in state fees in public universities are amazingly affordable.  But the net cost for going out of state to a public university is still within our budget (even w/o scholarships).  My oldest daughter is only paying $500/yr in tuition thanks to the lottery scholarship money.

@Consultant posted:

Adbono and Ster;

Many, many years ago, I was in Albuquerque developing commercial property.

At the same time a young man, drop out from Harvard was in a Route 66 motel developing a "computer system". His name is Bill Gates.

True Story.

Bob

A very minute percentage of people are too smart for college. We (had partners) hired one after a year of college. He was bored. He already knew what they were teaching in his computer science classes. He was our VP of Technology and very well compensated by the time he was twenty-five. We didn’t want him to get away.

I spent four years in college majoring in Econ, Quantitive Methodologies (calculus for Econ). I had no desire to spend my life in a cubicle being a math nerd. It was just an easy major for me. What I got out of college was four years of proving I was intelligent and could learn. I spent my career in sales and marketing.,

Then I started getting my MBA at night. It was only to say I was getting it so I was more promotable. I got it and left the corporate world. It’s nothing but an achievement I never hung on the wall.

@Ster posted:

I can add a little to this discussion.  I use to sit on a Dental School admissions committee.   I can tell you with first hand experience that where you go to school absolutely is factored into whether or not someone applying to one of these post graduate professional schools is admitted.   

My 2024 has expressed to me his desire to purse a dental degree after college.   I told him that I can't help him throw a better curveball, but I can absolutely give him solid advice on what it takes to get into dental school, and where he goes to school plays a major role in that process.   

In this case, going to an HA private school absolutely matters.  Can you get into dental school from less prestigious State colleges and Universities?  Absolutely you can, but if you want to be in the best position possible for admittance then it's better to be at one of the HA colleges or Universities.

My daughter graduated PBK from a very mediocre southern school. However, it was one of the top schools in the country in her major. She had high LSAT scores. She didn’t get accepted to three Ivies and two other northern elite law schools. We believe she was dealing with northern elitist academic snobbery.

She worked in a prestigious DC law firm for two years doing legal research. Eventually a senator friend of her boss asked which Ivy she would like to attend. He made a call. She became the Editor of the Law Review at a law school that had previously rejected her.

@RJM posted:

A very minute percentage of people are too smart for college. We (had partners) hired one after a year of college. He was bored. He already knew what they were teaching in his computer science classes. He was our VP of Technology and very well compensated by the time he was twenty-five. We didn’t want him to get away.

I spent four years in college majoring in Econ, Quantitive Methodologies (calculus for Econ). I had no desire to spend my life in a cubicle being a math nerd. It was just an easy major for me. What I got out of college was four years of proving I was intelligent and could learn. I spent my career in sales and marketing.,

Then I started getting my MBA at night. It was only to say I was getting it so I was more promotable. I got it and left the corporate world. It’s nothing but an achievement I never hung on the wall.

What I tell everyone, esp my kids, is that the biggest value of education isn't about learning  "what you know" (facts info, numbers, equations, etc.) but it's learning how to think and how to learn.

Last edited by atlnon

atlnon I totally agree.  Teaching students how to learn and how to think it crucial and is being taught less and less at all levels of education.  Many students simply learn to pass a test or are taught what they are supposed to think.    If Id venture a guess, and Im probably way too high, Id bet less than 5% of teachers and professors are teaching students how to think and learn. (Im a teacher and have taught in colleges too)



****edit: Upon reflection ( :-) ) let me add "effectively." Some go through the motions.  Im not saying I'm perfect or teacher of the year at this stuff at all, just making the point we arent doing enough of this in education.****

Last edited by edcoach

baseballhs, who you know and the network of connections is very crucial.  My son is a Sports Management major.  I'd think his network of contacts would be more important than what he knows for the most part.  For a doctor, lawyer, architect, etc it may be what you know...but networking and contacts are probably invaluable in all fields

@edcoach posted:

atlnon I totally agree.  Teaching students how to learn and how to think it crucial and is being taught less and less at all levels of education.  Many students simply learn to pass a test or are taught what they are supposed to think.    If Id venture a guess, and Im probably way too high, Id bet less than 5% of teachers and professors are teaching students how to think and learn. (Im a teacher and have taught in colleges too)



****edit: Upon reflection ( :-) ) let me add "effectively." Some go through the motions.  Im not saying I'm perfect or teacher of the year at this stuff at all, just making the point we arent doing enough of this in education.****

I think my first thing I would point out is, as a teacher, please fix your contractions.  Sorry, as a teacher myself, I proofread everything.    Secondly, I do agree with you that students struggle terribly with critical thinking and you are right, we are not doing enough.  What I do not agree with is that they are taught what to think.   Society wants us to teach the basic subjects and nothing else, but yet get upset when students don't know how to think for themselves.  Which one is it?  I am sure there are some, but for myself and my colleagues, I make sure I question my students multiple times a day to help those higher level thinking and critical thinking skills.  Your 5% bet makes me really sad.  If you believe that number, I am extremely sad for the area that you teach.

Last edited by baseballmom01

Baseballmom you gotta cut me a break: 1)I'm a sped teacher and not an English teacher. 2)when I post, my grammar is lax intentionally.  :-)

I totally agree with you. Society wants students to learn content AND know how to think. In schools we are forced to teach to a test.  Creativity killer. Thinking killer.  Schools talk a big game too...tell teachers to teach kids to think, but really don't care as long as they do well on a standardized test.  I think colleges are big pushers of ideology but there's more of it in public schools k-12 than I realized.

Last edited by edcoach
@edcoach posted:

Baseballmom you gotta cut me a break: 1)I'm a sped teacher and not an English teacher. 2)when I post, my grammar is lax intentionally.  :-)

I totally agree with you. Society wants students to learn content AND know how to think. In schools we are forced to teach to a test.  Creativity killer. Thinking killer.  Schools talk a big game too...tell teachers to teach kids to think, but really don't care as long as they do well on a standardized test.  I think colleges are big pushers of ideology but there's more of it in public schools k-12 than I realized.

O.k, I will give you a pass. 

Yes, very true about teaching to the test.  This is something that needs to change, but we need legislation to stop the testing mandates to make it happen.  It is really hard for teachers right now because of the backlash over things like CRT (which does not exist in K-12.)  We need to get back to open discussions and allow students to be able to think freely without being judged. 

Thank you for teaching special education too.  We need many more of you!

O.k, I will give you a pass. 

Yes, very true about teaching to the test.  This is something that needs to change, but we need legislation to stop the testing mandates to make it happen.  It is really hard for teachers right now because of the backlash over things like CRT (which does not exist in K-12.)  We need to get back to open discussions and allow students to be able to think freely without being judged.

Thank you for teaching special education too.  We need many more of you!

Stating things that you may want to believe, but are not true, is not helpful to anyone on HSBBW

Welcome to the HSBBW off season.  We have about 2 more weeks until the focus changes.  When we get back in January, we will move on from Deion, cold weather camps and portals to it will turn to tryouts for high school parents (how much the coach hates my kid), schedules and the weather for college parents (Northern parents complaining about having to go south so much) and then it moves to season for college the second week of February.  We get a little side tracked at this time every year.  Someone will try to bring it back on track by talking about their favorite Christmas present they got or gave.  Good luck.

@adbono posted:

As many are pointing out to you, this is not the place for that discussion.

So let me get this straight.  Part of this discussion was about teaching our kids critical thinking skills and how much they are lacking in those skills when it comes to deciding what school to attend.  Then when I speak up about my expertise on the subject (I have a bachelor's, a master's and currently working on another grad degree in education) you tell me what I am saying is not true, but won't explain.  I believe you commented in another thread that unless you have been a part of something (referring to coaching and playing baseball) you can't really understand.  Well as an educator with multiple degrees, I think critical thinking is my expertise so unless you are in education, maybe not your place. 

I won't comment anymore as not to offend anyone with any truths, but I also won't allow someone to undermine my expertise. 

Merry Christmas!!

So let me get this straight.  Part of this discussion was about teaching our kids critical thinking skills and how much they are lacking in those skills when it comes to deciding what school to attend.  Then when I speak up about my expertise on the subject (I have a bachelor's, a master's and currently working on another grad degree in education) you tell me what I am saying is not true, but won't explain.  I believe you commented in another thread that unless you have been a part of something (referring to coaching and playing baseball) you can't really understand.  Well as an educator with multiple degrees, I think critical thinking is my expertise so unless you are in education, maybe not your place.

I won't comment anymore as not to offend anyone with any truths, but I also won't allow someone to undermine my expertise.

Merry Christmas!!

Bless your heart! Play coy if you like. Nobody has an issue with teaching kids critical thinking. We need more of that. But your post went beyond that. You expressed an opinion that is not fact and has been proven to be untrue in many school systems. To me that looks like pushing a social agenda. I suggest Facebook as a better place for that.

@PitchingFan posted:

Welcome to the HSBBW off season.  We have about 2 more weeks until the focus changes.  When we get back in January, we will move on from Deion, cold weather camps and portals to it will turn to tryouts for high school parents (how much the coach hates my kid), schedules and the weather for college parents (Northern parents complaining about having to go south so much) and then it moves to season for college the second week of February.  We get a little side tracked at this time every year.  Someone will try to bring it back on track by talking about their favorite Christmas present they got or gave.  Good luck.

My daughter played softball in the south. She commented I seemed to make more home games in February and March than April and May.

Last edited by RJM

I don't have the time or energy to delete some posts and get this thread back on track.  I had surgery today.  PLEASE, IF ANY OTHER MODERATOR IS CHECKING IN, GO OVER THIS THREAD AND "FIX IT" OR LOCK IT.

If we can't get back to the OPs topic, I will lock it tomorrow since this thread will seem to have run its course.

Take care,

Darrell

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