What is the solution? It would be great to have a crystal ball to see the young man grow from a "athlete student" to a "student athlete"!
"Super impose" the young HS Senior to the College of his choice. Actually all the info necessary is on this HS web site.
There are five questions to ask the College coach and his players.
My favorite is Coach, where do I hit in the lineup?
Bob
@Consultant posted:What is the solution? It would be great to have a crystal ball to see the young man grow from a "athlete student" to a "student athlete"!
"Super impose" the young HS Senior to the College of his choice. Actually all the info necessary is on this HS web site.
There are five questions to ask the College coach and his players.
My favorite is Coach, where do I hit in the lineup?
Bob
The solution is to find the opportunity that fits your goals and objective.
Do the appropriate research of your target schools.
Be flexible that you may have to pivot your decisions before you select.
You may have to pivot while you are at the school.
Note, If a coach can get a new job, e.g. Link Jarrett, why can't a player sell his services?
The numbers don't always lie either. If a player is top 50 in their state but not top 10 they probably don't belong at the State's P5. If you are not top 50 you probably don't belong at D1. The numbers are probably true in most cases, BUT there is always the exception and as has been said everyone thinks their child is the exception. If you are not top 500 in nation you will probably struggle at P5's. Reading the numbers also have to be subjective and not I hope.
@PitchingFan posted:The numbers don't always lie either. If a player is top 50 in their state but not top 10 they probably don't belong at the State's P5. If you are not top 50 you probably don't belong at D1. The numbers are probably true in most cases, BUT there is always the exception and as has been said everyone thinks their child is the exception. If you are not top 500 in nation you will probably struggle at P5's. Reading the numbers also have to be subjective and not I hope.
@PitchingFan top 500 from what organization?
@CollegebaseballInsights posted:@PitchingFan top 500 from what organization?
I assume he means a top 500 national ranking from PG, PBR, etc.
@adbono posted:I assume he means a top 500 national ranking from PG, PBR, etc.
Maybe things have since my son went through the process, IMHO, most of those rankings are paid for. Who you know.
Many players to test well, but put them in a game, and it is a different story.
@CollegebaseballInsights can you DM me where I can send a check?
LSU just retooled.
PG, PBR and others. I don’t think they are all paid for. You do have to play but don’t have to do showcases. Son never did showcase and was ranked.
@CollegebaseballInsights posted:The solution is to find the opportunity that fits your goals and objective.
Do the appropriate research of your target schools.
Be flexible that you may have to pivot your decisions before you select.
You may have to pivot while you are at the school.
Note, If a coach can get a new job, e.g. Link Jarrett, why can't a player sell his services?
Had to update my comment. Working long hours cleaning up bad roster data. (lol)
@PitchingFan posted:PG, PBR and others. I don’t think they are all paid for. You do have to play but don’t have to do showcases. Son never did showcase and was ranked.
Same for my son. Never attended a PBR event but he was ranked. Rankings don’t mean a lot tho. Might get a player looked at but won’t get a player recruited.
@adbono posted:Same for my son. Never attended a PBR event but he was ranked. Rankings don’t mean a lot tho. Might get a player looked at but won’t get a player recruited.
Again, so is the ranking based on a body of work? Travel Team ranking, Somebody connected seeing play? There are a lot of players ranked 9 and above.
But if you put them all in a league for 2 months, how many of these players are really worth their rankings.
Note, we've all seen the contradictions.
Throwing 90+ with no consistent location could get you a VERY good mark.
Gaming (rolling start) the start point in your 40 yd, can make you look like Usain Bolt.
Hitting based on a controlled environment (50 mph fastball), Yep a swing can look good.
Fielding especially OF is controlled, do you really have a feel for where to shade? Do you know how the sun when?
How to you get an assessment in a indoor winter bubble?
I can go on, be we all know the game.
The question was, might a high ranking be an indication that the player was going to have a chance for success at his school?
I've been interested in PG rankings since my son was going through. I don't think rankings are purchased as such. But, I do think that while PG (and presumably PBR) individually evaluate the top 499 players per year (for the draft), for the rest, my guess is that their system uses an algorithm that bases rankings on a lot of data points in their system, including the commitment. In other words, the ranking doesn't lead to the commitment, the commitment leads to the ranking. Almost all P5 players are at least "Top 500", which is actually multiple thousands of players. Almost all D3 players are "Follow" or "High Follow".
PGStaff (the founder of PG) used to post a lot about this topic, e.g.: https://community.hsbaseballwe...50#36210486949897650
Is it the be-all and end-all? No. Can a "Top 500" ranked player succeed at a P5? Yes, of course. And by the same token, top-ranked players play themselves off the field, too.
I understand that going into the portal does not mean you have to leave the school but most coaches would tell you not to let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. What if the head coach leaves? There are only 6 days left for kids to enter the portal!
@PTWood posted:LSU just retooled.
I know nothing about Little but heard today word on the streets of the SEC is that the TT NIL is in the hundreds of thousands of $$$ at LSU. Also stipulated/requested/asked to play 3B and hit in 3 hole.
Arch Mannings NIL at UT must be in the $2M/season range.
My first thought with the two transfers committing to LSU the same day was that they are throwing some money around.
PG and PBR are not paid rankings. Kids with a reputation (players known to be studs) get more attention from staff at events but there are kids who never do an event and are highly ranked. Towards the end, the same guys are highly ranked at PG and PBR and you see the same guys at area code and USA tryouts.
@baseballhs posted:PG and PBR are not paid rankings. Kids with a reputation (players known to be studs) get more attention from staff at events but there are kids who never do an event and are highly ranked. Towards the end, the same guys are highly ranked at PG and PBR and you see the same guys at area code and USA tryouts.
Everything in life has a paid component, not everything is direct cash. If you don't think advisors don't put their finger on the scale.
Reputations can be crafted and marketed.
Ok…. I think that’s more rare than you think. I know ONE kid whose advisor was in the mix and I was pretty knowledgeable in the space. (And he didn’t need help from the advisor, everyone knew who he was from 14 on. Drafted high from hs). My kid was ranked very high early on. Got invited to futures after one PBR event at as freshman. Never did another paid event. His first PG was summer before his freshman year. I looked at the write up the other day, and the 2 14 year olds they wrote about above him and below him on the page are also currently at strong P5s. Maybe going to an event early got them looking for them at the next events.? If so, I guess we did something right. My son was ranked as a 10 and the number 26 pitcher nationally before he had an advisor. As an aside, he and the number 16 pitcher nationally are both struggling for play time. Both 100% have the talent. It takes more than talent to make it. Takes luck, staying healthy, being with a coach that likes what you have and isn’t making you a project. Not easy.
Have to perform no matter your ranking. Player from hs in Oklahoma predicted to be 1st rd pick. Went to Oklahoma instead...was average as a freshman and transferred to Arkansas this season. Struggled mightily and fought injuries and didn't get an at bat at CWS due to struggles and maybe didn't get at bats in regional and Super regional. He was in every major pg event and area code etc in hs and rated as top 3 hitter nationally. Then..
As in many issues discussed on this board there are big regional differences.
I will limit my comments to what I have seen in Texas. Btw, @baseballhs is also in Texas and I agree with all of her comments.
I have more personal experience with PBR than PG, as I saw thru PG after attending one individual event. In the DFW area PBR did/does a good job of attending HS and travel ball games. They also put on individual showcase events. They publish rankings based on what they see at their events AND what they see in game action. If a player consistently performs well in games they attend they will rank that player whether the player has attended one of their showcases or not. That was the case with my son. He never attended a PBR event but they ranked him #11 3B in Texas based on how he performed in the games they attended. Did the ranking help him get recruited? No. It didn’t. Not one bit. Now I will say that players that repeatedly attend PBR events may get a ranking but they can’t buy a higher ranking by continuing to attend events. The most they can hope for is a video or a shout out if they happen to do something in a game.
HS kids that are legit prospects and have advisors (and way more have them than need them) don’t need advisors attempting to manipulate rankings in order for them to be noticed. Players that are not legit prospects and have advisors are viewed as a red flag to college coaches.
So the concept of kids benefitting from advisors impacting rankings, or money buying rankings, does not hold water with PBR in Texas.
adbono out!
I was first exposed to advisors when son went to area code underclass several years ago. I had never heard of it before but several players had one. When we got home we were approached by one offering services and I declined. Can see pros and cons but I was warned against it by one of the heads of local scouting organization top officials. One of the kids with an advisor is in high A right now, another plays at NC and another one I've heard nothing about
@adbono posted:As in many issues discussed on this board there are big regional differences.
So the concept of kids benefitting from advisors impacting rankings, or money buying rankings, does not hold water with PBR in Texas.
adbono out!
It doesn't in Florida either.
@edcoach posted:I was first exposed to advisors when son went to area code underclass several years ago. I had never heard of it before but several players had one. When we got home we were approached by one offering services and I declined. Can see pros and cons but I was warned against it by one of the heads of local scouting organization top officials. One of the kids with an advisor is in high A right now, another plays at NC and another one I've heard nothing about
Only players with draft talent need advisors. MLB scouts are the ones that determine if you have draft talent. Not advisors. If MLB scouts are telling your son he is getting draft consideration then an advisor MAY be appropriate. If an advisor is telling you that you need an advisor…. you don’t need an advisor! A lot of these guys are giving young players bad advice and it gets kids heading down the wrong path. Many are not good for the game.
Your last few sentences was the exact advice the person in the scouting service was giving me
@edcoach posted:Your last few sentences was the exact advice the person in the scouting service was giving me
So many ways I would like to respond to that. But will just say that I appreciate your comment.
During my 17 years with the Area Code games, we develop a "book" on all the agents [advisors], parents, college coaches and pro scouts.
This "network" was highly unusual.
We did not charge players or parents a fee to participate in the games or the tryouts.
The result was $35 million annual signing bonus for the players and parents.
Bob
Any update on the transfer portal? I can’t seem to remember my d1 baseball password
Any particular school or player you wanting to know about? Biggest names today are Drew Bianco leaving LSU, Hurston Waldrep leaving Southern Miss for LSU, Thatcher Hurd leaving UCLA for LSU, Zach Gregory and Elijah Trest leaving Arkansas.
can u list everyone leaving Arkansas please? and Wichita State?
Arkansas
Zack Gregory, Elijah Trest, Max Soliz, Gabriel Starks, Heston Tolle to Texas, zachery Leach, Evan Gray to St. Louis, Vincent Trapani, mark Adamiak, Drake Varnado to Arizona State, Gabriel D’Arcy to San Diego, Joseph Bate to La Tech, Nathan Rintz. Could be some last years on here
Thx Pitchingfan
Sent you p.m. for Wichita State
I think LSU is opening the door for serious scrutiny.
If the donors (known as counters) have formed a company with donor funds to bring in players it could be seen as pay for play or quid pro quo which is against NCAA rules.
Good article in The Atlantic but it won't copy and paste.
@PitchingFan thank you for the reply! Really loved watching what your son did this year! I was looking specifically at UHartford and other America East schools. Thank you!
