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There are a lot of grad transfers in there, the question is how many will either be given the opportunity to play somewhere else, and then what portion are willing to take on more school and often the associated debt.  If you're a kid that attends a school that either doesn't allow graduate play (Ivy) or doesn't have graduate level classes, there's no harm in going in the portal.  If someone shows interest, you can then gauge if it makes sense or not.  

@9and7dad posted:

There are a lot of grad transfers in there, the question is how many will either be given the opportunity to play somewhere else, and then what portion are willing to take on more school and often the associated debt.  If you're a kid that attends a school that either doesn't allow graduate play (Ivy) or doesn't have graduate level classes, there's no harm in going in the portal.  If someone shows interest, you can then gauge if it makes sense or not.  

The grad transfers have no question about their status. I wouldn’t expect that many more of them to enter the portal. I would expect a big increase in undergrads entering however. Seems like a lot of names already and it’s still very early in the game. Many undergrads aren’t going to have a handle on their situation until they get back to campus. They can talk to their coaches on the phone all they want to in the interim but many aren’t gonna know where they stand until they can size it up for themselves. I think it will end up being a lot of names. 

@adbono posted:

The grad transfers have no question about their status. I wouldn’t expect that many more of them to enter the portal. I would expect a big increase in undergrads entering however. Seems like a lot of names already and it’s still very early in the game. Many undergrads aren’t going to have a handle on their situation until they get back to campus. They can talk to their coaches on the phone all they want to in the interim but many aren’t gonna know where they stand until they can size it up for themselves. I think it will end up being a lot of names. 

It seems like Freshmen are getting hit the hardest.  I have heard of quite a few who have been dropped in the last week.   2020's are getting dropped as well and I know of a 2021 who was dropped yesterday.  I wonder how many schools will just let everyone fight it out in the Fall and make the majority of their cuts afterwards?  Hopefully there will be some additional roster relief.    

@d-mac posted:

It seems like Freshmen are getting hit the hardest.  I have heard of quite a few who have been dropped in the last week.   2020's are getting dropped as well and I know of a 2021 who was dropped yesterday.  I wonder how many schools will just let everyone fight it out in the Fall and make the majority of their cuts afterwards?  Hopefully there will be some additional roster relief.    

Only problem with that is the scholarship money. Still have to be under 11.7 for the non corona seniors. Freshmen move a lot to begin with, a lot of high schoolers reach when they're being recruited and take the biggest name over the best fit. Mix that in with a shaky fall, slow start in the spring. Next thing you know it's been 9 months and you've shown the staff nothing that helps your cause in a numbers game. Unfortunately the only roster relief would be the NCAA allowing the penalty free transfer rule to pass and that doesn't look too promising as of now. 

I feel like almost all schools have a roster crunch and I respect the coaches that are telling the kids that they know probably won't make the cut.  At least it gives them options and lets them make an educated decision.  I think it's scarier that coaches are bringing everyone to campus when they know they are sending a bunch to the slaughterhouse in December.

@baseballhs posted:

I feel like almost all schools have a roster crunch and I respect the coaches that are telling the kids that they know probably won't make the cut.  At least it gives them options and lets them make an educated decision.  I think it's scarier that coaches are bringing everyone to campus when they know they are sending a bunch to the slaughterhouse in December.

I don’t see it that way. Many of the schools I see with 5 or more undergrads looking to leave have been notorious for over recruiting for many years. The number of names in the transfer portal just serves as proof. 

Rookie question: Does a player have to put their name in the portal in order to transfer?  It’s not working out prior to Corona, kid and coach talk, kid calls old TB coach and asks him to help find him a new hopefully better fit, which coach does. Does that name appear on this list? Just trying to get a handle on how many kids really are out there looking for a new home. 

Very interesting to browse through that list.  Thanks for posting.  I am particularly surprised at the large number of Ivy and other HA grads (and I am aware Ivy doesn't allow grads a fifth year of play)... apparently that group is more willing to tack on another year of schooling in order to play again than has been previously discussed on this site.

Also interesting is that practically the whole rosters of BG and Furman are on the list.  Hopefully, this is another data point that administrations will take note of when considering cutting baseball... that's a lot of potentially lost tuition revenue.

Adbono, I get your point about over-recruiting, largely from some of the P5's, but what do we make of schools like Maine who have a much harder time even recruiting good talent from their own back yard, let alone out of the region and have 11 players on the list with only two or three being grads?  Chicago St. and Gardner-Webb also have high numbers.  I'm guessing Chicago St. was possibly due to the earlier rumors.

@cabbagedad posted:

Very interesting to browse through that list.  Thanks for posting.  I am particularly surprised at the large number of Ivy and other HA grads (and I am aware Ivy doesn't allow grads a fifth year of play)... apparently that group is more willing to tack on another year of schooling in order to play again than has been previously discussed on this site.

Also interesting is that practically the whole rosters of BG and Furman are on the list.  Hopefully, this is another data point that administrations will take note of when considering cutting baseball... that's a lot of potentially lost tuition revenue.

Adbono, I get your point about over-recruiting, largely from some of the P5's, but what do we make of schools like Maine who have a much harder time even recruiting good talent from their own back yard, let alone out of the region and have 11 players on the list with only two or three being grads?  Chicago St. and Gardner-Webb also have high numbers.  I'm guessing Chicago St. was possibly due to the earlier rumors.

Hard to know what to make of it but you can add Louisiana, UNC Wilmington & St Louis to the list of mid-majors where lots of kids want out.  The 3 programs I just mentioned have all been consistently good so to me it says they are bringing in too many kids each year. Maybe they are using sports to boost tuition revenue and will take as many as they can get. The surprising thing to me is the number of kids in the portal wanting to leave mid-majors. There are fewer P5 schools where kids want to leave than I expected and more mid-majors. 

UNCW - Over-recruiting combined with favor recruiting from favored academies. And a coaching change for 2020 season. Not a good look for this program in regards to recruiting.

Gardner Webb -  Massive massive huge overrecruiting and a coaching change for the 2020 season. Plus multiple JUCO commits coming in. And 6 seniors returning.

G-Webb even had been advertising some program called a D1 Development Team which appeared to be some offshoot club team that would provide training and intersquad play amongst those in the 'program'.  Very weird.

@Showball$ posted:

UNCW - Over-recruiting combined with favor recruiting from favored academies. And a coaching change for 2020 season. Not a good look for this program in regards to recruiting.

Gardner Webb -  Massive massive huge overrecruiting and a coaching change for the 2020 season. Plus multiple JUCO commits coming in. And 6 seniors returning.

G-Webb even had been advertising some program called a D1 Development Team which appeared to be some offshoot club team that would provide training and intersquad play amongst those in the 'program'.  Very weird.

Good insight... anything on Maine?

Maine? No, nothing beyond its cold there I hear.

This is going to turn into a huge mess. Between many programs overrecruited, seniors not leaving, and others shutting down. Its not going to help the quality of competition as some think. Its going to set up a free for all overcrowded clown show with little continuity and even more player discontent.

If the colleges don't open back up for on campus classes this Fall, their entire business model is shot for the foreseeable future. Nobody in their right mind is going to pay high tuition for online learning, or plan to attend until this mess is all sorted out. (Furman for example I heard is down 15% in enrollment.  I'm sure others are similar)

Forget baseball changing,  the entire landscape of college as we know it may be altered. Better get this all figured out and get back to living life again.

Here is an example of where headed to:

South Carolina (USC) delay campus opening til Aug 30, Eliminate Fall break, No return to Campus after Thanksgiving, Online classes and final exams thru Dec 15 semester end. Evaluate return in January as needed.

 

 

 

 

@Showball$ posted:

UNCW - Over-recruiting combined with favor recruiting from favored academies. And a coaching change for 2020 season. Not a good look for this program in regards to recruiting.

Gardner Webb -  Massive massive huge overrecruiting and a coaching change for the 2020 season. Plus multiple JUCO commits coming in. And 6 seniors returning.

G-Webb even had been advertising some program called a D1 Development Team which appeared to be some offshoot club team that would provide training and intersquad play amongst those in the 'program'.  Very weird.

The bolded is a problem that nobody really talks about too much. I see kid after kid pushed higher and higher up the rankings because of the program he plays for or because of how many showcase events he does. Then he gets to his school and transfers after a year or two and there's always an excuse attached. 

I know D3's don't go thru the portal but wanted to give a shout out to Duke for picking up Rich Brereton (graduate) out of Emory.  Kid was a stud 2 way player for Emory and helped his summer team win the cape league championships last year with a gutsy extra-inning performance on the mound.  Not sure how much time he will get next spring but he's the second RHP from our HS on Duke.  Not bad for a school in CT.  Our HS ace last year, Henry Williams, was to be a part of the starting rotation as a freshman but got hurt in his first outing.  I am a Duke hater in everything but baseball.   I am pretty sure its jealousy.

I know D3's don't go thru the portal but wanted to give a shout out to Duke for picking up Rich Brereton (graduate) out of Emory.  Kid was a stud 2 way player for Emory and helped his summer team win the cape league championships last year with a gutsy extra-inning performance on the mound.  Not sure how much time he will get next spring but he's the second RHP from our HS on Duke.  Not bad for a school in CT.  Our HS ace last year, Henry Williams, was to be a part of the starting rotation as a freshman but got hurt in his first outing.  I am a Duke hater in everything but baseball.   I am pretty sure its jealousy.

D3 certainly does go through the portal. I’m assuming the list non-coaches are subscribing to through D1baseball is different than the actual portal. 

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Last edited by 19coach
@LousyLefty posted:

Rookie question: Does a player have to put their name in the portal in order to transfer?  It’s not working out prior to Corona, kid and coach talk, kid calls old TB coach and asks him to help find him a new hopefully better fit, which coach does. Does that name appear on this list? Just trying to get a handle on how many kids really are out there looking for a new home. 

The school puts the kid on the portal after kid submits the proper paperwork requesting to enter the portal. 

@DesertDuck posted:

Sure seems to be a whole lot of doom and gloom happening now.....Did anyone predict this carnage?

@adbono posted:

I remember a bunch of “why so much negativity?!? I view the world as glass half full. My kid will just outwork everybody “

Sometimes the numbers preclude all of that, which is what is evolving just as many predicted it would. 

Adbono you were on it from the beginning. 

All those that thought this was just usual roster management:  Hold on because the next shoe hasn't dropped yet.  After the draft on  June 8 and undrafted signings before July1 (deadline for letting players know in writing that their scholy wont be renewed) it likely gets a lot uglier than it already is.    If the NCAA doesn't make changes in baseball ASAP, and there has been no indication that they will, P5 schools are going to be forced to break their own rules.  Too many scholarships promised, too many returning players, too many incoming freshman with signed NLIs, it will get worse.

@GloFisher posted:

echoing wildcats post, any insight on Richmond?  big numbers in portal.  

Bump for wildcats and glofisher.  One transfer is going JUCO, and another to a strong D3 program (Trinity).  Two are graduate transfers.   That leaves 3 others that entered the portal for their own reasons.  In looking at this, I don't think the sky is falling with 3 transfers for a very expensive private D1 school.   With the current scholarship situation being pretty squirrely with Covid-19, there may have been some challenges making everybody happy.   

I live in Richmond (they recruited son 10 years ago) and I've not heard anything which is why I'm curious.  The 2020 team did not start off strong, but 2019 team had a 13-8 conference record and 2018 had a 15-9 conference record.  Certainly not terrible.

@fenwaysouth posted:

Bump for wildcats and glofisher.  One transfer is going JUCO, and another to a strong D3 program (Trinity).  Two are graduate transfers.   That leaves 3 others that entered the portal for their own reasons.  In looking at this, I don't think the sky is falling with 3 transfers for a very expensive private D1 school.   With the current scholarship situation being pretty squirrely with Covid-19, there may have been some challenges making everybody happy.   

I live in Richmond (they recruited son 10 years ago) and I've not heard anything which is why I'm curious.  The 2020 team did not start off strong, but 2019 team had a 13-8 conference record and 2018 had a 15-9 conference record.  Certainly not terrible.

@fenwaysouth

Here are some insights for Richmond:

 

2020 Player Distribution by State

01-Richmond 2020 Distribution by State

 

2020 Player Distribution by Position

 

02-Richmond 2020 Distribution by Position

 

2020 Team Roster Insights

03-Richmond 2020 Team Roster Insights

 

2019 MLB Draft

 

04-Richmond 2019 MLB Draft

 

Team Performance 2016 - 2020

05-Richmond Team Performance 2016 - 2020

 

2019 EADA Report

 

06-Richmond 2019 EADA Report

 

2019 -EADA - Expense by Sport

07-Richmond 2019 EADA Expense by Sport

 

Richmond 10 yr Baseball Budget

08-Richmond 2019 EADA Baseball Budget

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  • 01-Richmond 2020 Distribution by State
  • 02-Richmond 2020 Distribution by Position
  • 03-Richmond 2020 Team Roster Insights
  • 04-Richmond 2019 MLB Draft
  • 05-Richmond Team Performance 2016 - 2020
  • 06-Richmond 2019 EADA Report
  • 07-Richmond 2019 EADA Expense by Sport
  • 08-Richmond 2019 EADA Baseball Budget
@fenwaysouth posted:

Bump for wildcats and glofisher.  One transfer is going JUCO, and another to a strong D3 program (Trinity).  Two are graduate transfers.   That leaves 3 others that entered the portal for their own reasons.  In looking at this, I don't think the sky is falling with 3 transfers for a very expensive private D1 school.   With the current scholarship situation being pretty squirrely with Covid-19, there may have been some challenges making everybody happy.   

I live in Richmond (they recruited son 10 years ago) and I've not heard anything which is why I'm curious.  The 2020 team did not start off strong, but 2019 team had a 13-8 conference record and 2018 had a 15-9 conference record.  Certainly not terrible.

They have their own field and don't play on the Flying Squirrels field, correct?

I can't remember if Cabbage is a Giants fan or not.  If he is, I would think that Richmond might be an attractive place to retire.  

(sorry for the thread drift)

@JCG posted:

They have their own field and don't play on the Flying Squirrels field, correct?

I can't remember if Cabbage is a Giants fan or not.  If he is, I would think that Richmond might be an attractive place to retire.  

(sorry for the thread drift)

JCG - Correct.  Univ of Richmond just got a brand new artificial all-weather baseball field a couple years ago.  They were including that and many facility and stadium upgrades in their recruiting pitch 10 years ago.   They finally got around to ONE of those recruiting pitch items.  

Flying Squirrels share the Diamond with Virginia Commonwealth Univ (A-10 conference).    I'm a former New Englander and I've lived in Richmond for 30+ years and it is a great place to live, raise a family and retire.  I believe keewart and FoxDad outlined many reasons to live in Richmond in the previous "Living in NC, SC, and GA" thread.   BTW...I'm hoping to see Ripken Fan's son makes a quick stop in AA Richmond before getting "the big call up".

Last edited by fenwaysouth

I believe this is only the second year (and the first year may have started late) of the transfer portal. What would be really telling is what were the numbers in the prior year? Are this year's numbers much different? I'm guessing the portal now sheds light on something that occurs EVERY years regardless of a pandemic. Very similar phenomenon to flu death counts.

Of course the GRADUATE transfer requests will be many, many more due to the extra year. Most of these guys are just "fishing".

@c2019 posted:

Can yesterdays update be posted ??  I heard the numbers went even higher .

The big numbers were anticipated once the D1 council granted an extra year of eligibility to all spring sports athletes. That’s why the one time transfer rule hasn’t been approved. Can you imagine what the portal would look like if one time transfers were in there too?!?!? 

Wow! Quite an eye opener. A bit surprised at Washington, and, to a lesser extent Purdue, having the transfers they do. Not surprised at programs like Omaha, KY, and Miss. State. Notre Dame has more movement than I expected. know a kid who is transferring there.

 

Just reinforces to me that if you go to a school, make sure you love the school, not just the baseball program. The amount of movement I have seen from my son's baseball buddies in the first two years is crazy...and IMO, not right. 

@57special posted:

Wow! Quite an eye opener. A bit surprised at Washington, and, to a lesser extent Purdue, having the transfers they do. Not surprised at programs like Omaha, KY, and Miss. State. Notre Dame has more movement than I expected. know a kid who is transferring there.

 

Just reinforces to me that if you go to a school, make sure you love the school, not just the baseball program. The amount of movement I have seen from my son's baseball buddies in the first two years is crazy...and IMO, not right. 

IMO all the movement is due to a combination of things: 1) many kids (and parents) don’t get a good read on the situation before they commit; 2) blatant over-recruiting by some programs; 3) kids over-reaching for big name programs when they aren’t really good enough to play there; 4) the big ego infatuation with playing D1 baseball; 5) kids & parents being misled about the appropriate level of play for their abilities; 6) kids & parents not doing their homework to find info that’s out there; 7) the influence of social media in the decision making process.         All these factors (and others) result in bad decisions on the first go around requiring a corrective move within a year of the first one. 

How much do you think Corona/additional eligibility is impacting these numbers?  Since my player is a 2022 this is just now something we are looking at and don't really have a historical reference.  Normally I would track how many transfers are entering the portal from any school on our interest list, but not sure this year shouldn't be counted as an anomaly.   

@19coach posted:

D3 certainly does go through the portal. I’m assuming the list non-coaches are subscribing to through D1baseball is different than the actual portal. 

I'm pretty sure that D2 and D3 schools have the choice of using the transfer portal or staying with the older permission to contact process. D2 uses it heavily, but I'm not sure about D3. The Eligibility Center instructs student athletes to contact their current school's compliance office to find out which one they use. Also, D3 student athletes can transfer to another D3 school using the self-release form, so the kids using that process would never be on the portal.

Last edited by MidAtlanticDad

I have also seen some movement in son's friends because when they committed the teams were not as good as they are now.  New coaches come in and up the level of recruiting and playing to the point that the kids that were coming are no longer suited for those teams.  I also know kids that are planning on leaving schools that are waiting to see what happens in summer ball.  They don't want to give up their summer slots and many summer leagues only bring in kids from certain levels of ball or schools so kids are waiting until after summer to officially make their statements on transfers, D1 to juco. 

I'm assuming that 900 number will go up drastically after the draft. One guy not getting drafted may not seem like a big deal but the potential draft guys are the better players getting more money. If a 50% guy comes back to school, two 25 guys have to go. 

Freshmen may be the future of the program, but you don't get rid of studs to make room for projects. 

@FriarFred posted:

Here is a local story about a couple kids that have been impacted by the cancellation of the season, reduced MLB draft and another year of eligibility.  Real world example of what has been discussed here.  https://www.dallasnews.com/hig...g-extra-eligibility/

 

Typical media: "Division I signees in baseball and other spring sports are being told their scholarship can’t be honored."

I don't think this is possible. Sure, they told players there would be no playing time and that will cause them to find a new home but they can't pull money after a NLI's been signed.

Hogeboom left due to being told no playing time. And he gave up 50%? The article says New Mexico took Hill's scholarship away; there HAS to be more to the story as I don't think this is possible. Either he had no scholarship (as in the case of the softball player mentioned in the article) or he left due to the college suggesting he leave as in Hogeboom's case.

Make me wonder if the players should have just showed up on campus and called the coach's bluff. Eat that money. Perhaps the coach would be pissed and never give you an opportunity but at least you ate up 1/2 of a scholarship he wanted to use elsewhere. You can always leave after the fall and head to JUCO if calling his bluff didn't work. It really depends on how confident you are in your own ability.

@FriarFred posted:

Here is a local story about a couple kids that have been impacted by the cancellation of the season, reduced MLB draft and another year of eligibility.  Real world example of what has been discussed here.  https://www.dallasnews.com/hig...g-extra-eligibility/

 

No surprise that both 4 year schools mentioned in the article (New Mexico & Houston) have been 2 of the most notorious over-recruiters in this region in the past few years. However in this case both schools did these 2 kids a favor by giving them early notice. On the other hand, while both are going to established and proven JuCo programs, those two schools are also known for cattle calls in the fall. There were over 60 players on the 2019 fall roster at Cisco. When D1 recruits bounce down to JuCo that usually has a negative impact on a kid that was recruited to that Juco. Four year schools  that over-recruit usually do that habitually every year. Juco programs that rely on D1 bounce downs also usually have a history of doing that. Just part of the homework that players & parents need to be doing in order to know what they are really getting into. If more people would view the recruiting and commitment process as RISK MANAGEMENT there would be more good decisions being made. 

@ABSORBER posted:

Typical media: "Division I signees in baseball and other spring sports are being told their scholarship can’t be honored."

I don't think this is possible. Sure, they told players there would be no playing time and that will cause them to find a new home but they can't pull money after a NLI's been signed.

Hogeboom left due to being told no playing time. And he gave up 50%? The article says New Mexico took Hill's scholarship away; there HAS to be more to the story as I don't think this is possible. Either he had no scholarship (as in the case of the softball player mentioned in the article) or he left due to the college suggesting he leave as in Hogeboom's case.

Make me wonder if the players should have just showed up on campus and called the coach's bluff. Eat that money. Perhaps the coach would be pissed and never give you an opportunity but at least you ate up 1/2 of a scholarship he wanted to use elsewhere. You can always leave after the fall and head to JUCO if calling his bluff didn't work. It really depends on how confident you are in your own ability.

There is so much misinformation in this post I don’t even know where to begin. But here are some responses:

Para 2: Oh, it’s possible and it happens all the time. Outside of P5 schools NLIs are one year agreements. If the school wants out they will find a way - legally or not. 

Para 3: see comments above about Para 2

Para 4: Show up and call the coach’s bluff? Are you kidding me?!? Who in their right might is going to report as an incoming freshman to a school that has already informed you that you aren’t wanted. And what parent in their right mind what support that decision?!? Furthermore, don’t be naive enough to think that moving from 4 yr to JuCo after the fall semester is going to be easy in terms of finding the right opportunity. Rosters are going to be overcrowded all over the place. Confidence in your own ability has very little to do with it. It’s more about a realistic assessment of where you can actually play. The level of competition is different in the Ivy League than it is at Mountain West & American Athletic Conference. MW & AAC have a lot more really good players and it’s tougher to make a roster (and get on the field) from a baseball talent perspective. It’s tougher for a good player to bet admitted to an Ivy League school based on academic standards. 

I know a player who was on Scholarship at a perennial P5 powerhouse.  He was told in the late fall that he should find someplace else. Coaches didn't want him - talented, but poor attitude and work ethic.  Sure, he could have stayed based on P5s guarantee for 4 years, but the conversation isn't usually that hard.

"Look, we don't see you fitting into our plans.  You need a fresh start somewhere else.  You can stay here and chew up some scholarship money, burn through your parents income, and get C's, but you won't dress out for games or travel, is that really best for you, or is it best to move forward."

The same thing happens at "mid majors" all the time.  The 900  (and counting) D1 players in the portal are testament to that.

I told my son before he went to play college ball and before he signed his NLI, as competitive and unfair as this process sometimes seems to you, remember the coaches earn their living this way. Things may not go your way: it is not personal, it is business.

@adbono posted:

There is so much misinformation in this post I don’t even know where to begin. But here are some responses:

Para 2: Oh, it’s possible and it happens all the time. Outside of P5 schools NLIs are one year agreements. If the school wants out they will find a way - legally or not. 

Para 3: see comments above about Para 2

Para 4: Show up and call the coach’s bluff? Are you kidding me?!? Who in their right might is going to report as an incoming freshman to a school that has already informed you that you aren’t wanted. And what parent in their right mind what support that decision?!? Furthermore, don’t be naive enough to think that moving from 4 yr to JuCo after the fall semester is going to be easy in terms of finding the right opportunity. Rosters are going to be overcrowded all over the place. Confidence in your own ability has very little to do with it. It’s more about a realistic assessment of where you can actually play. The level of competition is different in the Ivy League than it is at Mountain West & American Athletic Conference. MW & AAC have a lot more really good players and it’s tougher to make a roster (and get on the field) from a baseball talent perspective. It’s tougher for a good player to bet admitted to an Ivy League school based on academic standards. 

spot on.  simple supply and demand.

 

It will be very interesting to see the actual roster turnover in 2021.

Outgoing

- Overall vs Freshman

- Transfer out

- Graduated

- MLB Signed

Incoming

-Overall

- Transfer in

I know that that is how it works, because I've read it here.  Obviously a player couldn't continue under those circumstances.  But, that newspaper article implied that the players were told "their scholarship money had to be used for returning students."  That simply was not true.  If newspaper articles like this were more honest about what really goes on, said "the university was required to honor the NLI scholarship, so they encouraged the player to voluntarily withdraw," perhaps it wouldn't happen so much.

@adbono posted:

There is so much misinformation in this post I don’t even know where to begin. But here are some responses:

Para 2: Oh, it’s possible and it happens all the time. Outside of P5 schools NLIs are one year agreements. If the school wants out they will find a way - legally or not. 

Para 3: see comments above about Para 2

Para 4: Show up and call the coach’s bluff? Are you kidding me?!? Who in their right might is going to report as an incoming freshman to a school that has already informed you that you aren’t wanted. And what parent in their right mind what support that decision?!? Furthermore, don’t be naive enough to think that moving from 4 yr to JuCo after the fall semester is going to be easy in terms of finding the right opportunity. Rosters are going to be overcrowded all over the place. Confidence in your own ability has very little to do with it. It’s more about a realistic assessment of where you can actually play. The level of competition is different in the Ivy League than it is at Mountain West & American Athletic Conference. MW & AAC have a lot more really good players and it’s tougher to make a roster (and get on the field) from a baseball talent perspective. It’s tougher for a good player to bet admitted to an Ivy League school based on academic standards. 

Misinformation? Any I presume you are an expert? Do you even know what an NLI is? Have YOU ever signed one? They exist for a reason.

Sure, be that scared kid and accept a scholarship to get an education at 50% off and bail just to go play baseball at a community college. Because that's what JUCO is, COMMUNITY COLLEGE. Nothing wrong with that if money is tight; it's a great way to save. So I suppose if your goal is to attend any school just to play baseball a few more years, heck, maybe even get drafted after two years of community college and one year at a 4-year school just to wash up after two years, have at it!

And if you don't think you are good enough to make a JUCO roster after transferring after the fall? Then you may as well stay at the school where you signed your NLI. Because baseball is NOT in your future. No scholarship after year one? That's something you should have factored into your decision when you accepted the offer. Go to school for an education, not baseball. Use baseball to get your education. If baseball works out in the end, good for you. Chances are it doesn't.

@ABSORBER posted:

Misinformation? Any I presume you are an expert? Do you even know what an NLI is? Have YOU ever signed one? They exist for a reason.

Sure, be that scared kid and accept a scholarship to get an education at 50% off and bail just to go play baseball at a community college. Because that's what JUCO is, COMMUNITY COLLEGE. Nothing wrong with that if money is tight; it's a great way to save. So I suppose if your goal is to attend any school just to play baseball a few more years, heck, maybe even get drafted after two years of community college and one year at a 4-year school just to wash up after two years, have at it!

And if you don't think you are good enough to make a JUCO roster after transferring after the fall? Then you may as well stay at the school where you signed your NLI. Because baseball is NOT in your future. No scholarship after year one? That's something you should have factored into your decision when you accepted the offer. Go to school for an education, not baseball. Use baseball to get your education. If baseball works out in the end, good for you. Chances are it doesn't.

I’m not going to give you my resume. But my bio should give you a clue that I have been thru all of this as a player, parent, coach, and advisor. So that’s multiple occasions from all perspectives.  I don’t know that many people are experts but I’m certainly one of the more experienced people on this board. One thing that you do have right is that you go to school for an education and baseball is a bonus. 

I know that that is how it works, because I've read it here.  Obviously a player couldn't continue under those circumstances.  But, that newspaper article implied that the players were told "their scholarship money had to be used for returning students."  That simply was not true.  If newspaper articles like this were more honest about what really goes on, said "the university was required to honor the NLI scholarship, so they encouraged the player to voluntarily withdraw," perhaps it wouldn't happen so much.

The author of that article, Greg Riddle, is not one of the better sports writers in DFW. So not surprising that he may have taken what was said to him at face value. It also wouldn’t surprise me one bit if either of the schools told those kids exactly what was written. 

@adbono posted:

I’m not going to give you my resume. But my bio should give you a clue that I have been thru all of this as a player, parent, coach, and advisor. So that’s multiple occasions from all perspectives.  I don’t know that many people are experts but I’m certainly one of the more experienced people on this board. One thing that you do have right is that you go to school for an education and baseball is a bonus. 

My point is YOU are the one who is spreading misinformation. You are not the only person on this site that does this. I can't stand people who pretend they know things and really don't. 

So when I say a student-athlete who has signed an NLI at 50% scholarship and decides to show up on campus he WILL receive his scholarship for one year. That's certainly not misinformation.

@ABSORBER posted:

My point is YOU are the one who is spreading misinformation. You are not the only person on this site that does this. I can't stand people who pretend they know things and really don't. 

So when I say a student-athlete who has signed an NLI at 50% scholarship and decides to show up on campus he WILL receive his scholarship for one year. That's certainly not misinformation.

I probably should have not used the word misinformation. In hindsight, I should have said you are offering bad advice. 

None of this matters. Disappearing scholarships, returning and transferring players, ability to compete for a roster spot,.....none of it matters. So quit arguing over it and just use the portal to figure out which colleges should be avoided at all costs. That's the only real benefit to the data knowledge.

And even that data knowledge is useless.  900 on the portal will swell by late summer. There is not enough spots anywhere because its most all over recruited and over promised to begin with. The over recruiting and buddy ball atmosphere is all coming to a head. It was coming anyway shortly, the current virus just accelerated the timeframe forward a few years.

You aren't guaranteed to play much at a Juco without connections no matter the talent you have.  D1 dropdowns, pro prospects, local favorited and connected, etc.

D2 is a roster cesspool. Forget that. You're going to have 24 and 25 year old college year six seniors and juco transfers clogging up all playing time for everyone (40+ roster spots deep style clogged up) in the program.

D3 may be possible for a top notch academic player to get in 30 games a season. IF D3 doesn't cancel the program and make it a club team.

D1 is going to be littered with disgruntled redshirt freshmen and sophs and prior redshirts who thought they had served their time.  Only to find out 6 seniors starters return and are handed the position again. 

Want to guarantee you are going to see significant field time as a college baseball player? Better get out the checkbook and donate some big $, better call in some connected favors, better be connected to a mover and shaker, better be a legacy son of a major leaguer, etc.

This isn't football or basketball where you can physically earn your spot by banging your competition in the ground one on one.  This is subjective baseball where not much individual physical competition matters.

It really shouldn't be this way. And I hate it for the current players, incoming players, and even the returning seniors. But what we all will witness and our favorite player will experience in the coming months is the result of the bullsh*t baseball system that money has built while the academies and showcases and travel ball and college recruiters have sold the soul of the game itself out over the last 6 years.

 

 

 

 

 

@Showball$ posted:

None of this matters. Disappearing scholarships, returning and transferring players, ability to compete for a roster spot,.....none of it matters. So quit arguing over it and just use the portal to figure out which colleges should be avoided at all costs. That's the only real benefit to the data knowledge.

And even that data knowledge is useless.  900 on the portal will swell by late summer. There is not enough spots anywhere because its most all over recruited and over promised to begin with. The over recruiting and buddy ball atmosphere is all coming to a head. It was coming anyway shortly, the current virus just accelerated the timeframe forward a few years.

You aren't guaranteed to play much at a Juco without connections no matter the talent you have.  D1 dropdowns, pro prospects, local favorited and connected, etc.

D2 is a roster cesspool. Forget that. You're going to have 24 and 25 year old college year six seniors and juco transfers clogging up all playing time for everyone (40+ roster spots deep style clogged up) in the program.

D3 may be possible for a top notch academic player to get in 30 games a season. IF D3 doesn't cancel the program and make it a club team.

D1 is going to be littered with disgruntled redshirt freshmen and sophs and prior redshirts who thought they had served their time.  Only to find out 6 seniors starters return and are handed the position again. 

Want to guarantee you are going to see significant field time as a college baseball player? Better get out the checkbook and donate some big $, better call in some connected favors, better be connected to a mover and shaker, better be a legacy son of a major leaguer, etc.

This isn't football or basketball where you can physically earn your spot by banging your competition in the ground one on one.  This is subjective baseball where not much individual physical competition matters.

It really shouldn't be this way. And I hate it for the current players, incoming players, and even the returning seniors. But what we all will witness and our favorite player will experience in the coming months is the result of the bullsh*t baseball system that money has built while the academies and showcases and travel ball and college recruiters have sold the soul of the game itself out over the last 6 years.

 

 

 

 

 

Tell us how you really feel. 

 

IMHO, you've summed it up pretty nicely. 

I'm going to have to save this comment. 

I think I can turn this into 1 or 2 analytics.

I just need to think of a name for this report.

Good stuff.

That article was a mess and because it was so inaccurate I can't consider it entirely truthful. A few thoughts...

The first is that one of the players had a 63% scholarship and only one other D1 offer. For the price of him they can get nearly 3 guys, but what's more alarming is that there was only one other offer. Had to be a reason for this. 

The second is that returning seniors don't count against the 11.7. So they didn't lose their scholarships, they were just less likely to play and chose to move on which was probably the wise move. But seniors coming back didn't cause this. You can ride the bench for a year as a freshman, it happens, especially now given the circumstances. 

The third is that going to the media is never a good idea. I don't know what these kids wanted to get out of this, especially since they are both headed to Jucos. It's not like they needed the publicity to get new offers. But going to the media with a tough story is going to do nothing for either of those kids. 

As ABSORBER mentioned earlier you can try to call the coaches bluff. They do have to honor the scholarship and they will find somebody else to cut if you let them know that moving on is not an option. If you say no, they still have a scholarship issue. 

I've seen it happen with a player at a P5 school, he was on a big scholarship and he was advised to transfer for playing time after a shaky freshman year. He told the coach thank you, but the school is too cheap for me to pass up, I'll stay and try to improve. Another player was cut two days later, he stayed, ended up being a weekend starter and drafted. If it is truly a scholarship issue, call the bluff and force their hand. If it is a talent issue, it would be wise to move on assuming there were other opportunities. If either of the kids mentioned in the article had said thanks I'll bet on myself, there would have been no article to write until at least next year. 

Stay and call the coaches bluff will result in career suicide 9 times more often than it ever works out. How many of you guys suggesting this ever played high level D1 baseball? You don’t think that decision won’t follow a player to his next stop? You don’t think coaches talk? If you play that card you better be prepared for what you get. 

@adbono posted:

Stay and call the coaches bluff will result in career suicide 9 times more often than it ever works out. How many of you guys suggesting this ever played high level D1 baseball? You don’t think that decision won’t follow a player to his next stop? You don’t think coaches talk? If you play that card you better be prepared for what you get. 

I didn't have to play high level D1 baseball to know that if you sign a legally binding contract with a university, they're required to honor it. 

Like I said, it really has to be a scholarship cap space issue and not a talent issue. I don't want to comment on the talent level of the high schoolers mentioned in the article, but given their scholarships are renewed annually I likely would have moved on as well. That being said if they said we're staying - there isn't anything a coach could do about it without risking his job. 

If it is a scholarship cap issue you will remain on the team. If it is a talent issue you better be prepared to be a regular student/charting pitches for the foreseeable future. I understand the politics of baseball and it's not a move I would recommend in 95% of cases. But I know plenty of kids who, if were cut, would likely become a regular student on baseball money,  join a frat, and call it a day. It is unfolding with a former teammate as we speak. 

Last edited by PABaseball
@PABaseball posted:

I didn't have to play high level D1 baseball to know that if you sign a legally binding contract with a university, they're required to honor it. 

Like I said, it really has to be a scholarship cap space issue and not a talent issue. I don't want to comment on the talent level of the high schoolers mentioned in the article, but given their scholarships are renewed annually I likely would have moved on as well. That being said if they said we're staying - there isn't anything a coach could do about it without risking his job. 

If it is a scholarship cap issue you will remain on the team. If it is a talent issue you better be prepared to be a regular student/charting pitches for the foreseeable future. I understand the politics of baseball and it's not a move I would recommend in 95% of cases. But I know plenty of kids who, if were cut, would likely become a regular student on baseball money,  join a frat, and call it a day. It is unfolding with a former teammate as we speak. 

Just like in any business arrangement, if the party in control doesn’t want to do business with the other party it doesn’t take very long for the wording in the contract not to matter. Like I said, if you play that card you better be prepared for your playing days to be over. Especially now, as coaches are going to have more options at every position than they ever have. It will be next man up, you best believe that. 

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