Travel Ball - Good and Bad.......

Greg did I miss something?  If you hate travel ball so much why are your kids doing it?  Are their bad things about travel ball, sure but I would rather have my son busy with baseball than setting in his room playing video games like way to many kids these days.  My son started travel ball at 11.  Our family vacations for the most part are during and after a tournament.  We have some amazing memories around the game And the places it has taken us.  Our family is a baseball family so to us it's not a sacrifice it's fun family time.  If your son or daughter doesn't like it then don't make them play.  Rec ball should be for rec players, the ones i feel sorry for are the rec talent players trying to play travel ball.  Kids should play the level they will enjoy the most.  My son always wanted to play against the best so we let him play at a high level.  Baseball teaches more life lessons than anything I know while still having fun.  And yes my son and I also find time to hunt and fish.  

My girl was scoring 3-4 goals every game, there's no competition left in rec, it wasn't fair to the other players for her team to win every game. My boy's LL coach last fall asked to him to only throw change ups because it wasn't fair to the rest of the boys. Every at bat was a triple or HR. 

Haha.  I watched the Greg Maddux "Driven" program a little while back.  His brother told the story about Greg pitching in a youth baseball league.  One game he threw 6 innings and had 17 strike outs.  Coach told him he wasn't going to let him pitch anymore because it wasn't fair to the kids in the field.  They needed to be able to play too.  Maybe you have the next Maddux, Greg65.

That's what's frustrating for me. His pitching coach (who spent 11 seasons pitching in the MLB, and now is a pitching coach in the Red Sox organization) would catch him and say he never saw a kid his age throw as hard. He's got a curve that's just not fair either. He does have great potential, but he's lost his love of the game because it's really not much fun anymore. Yesterday, my girl's first game was at 9:15, her second wasn't until 3:00. We sat around the fields all day. This is not a healthy lifestyle for kids. she was so tired I couldn't get her out of bed for school. 

The boys who love the game will have no problem playing travel and the extra time it takes.  And I'm not talking about the kids under 12.  That's a whole separate deal.  Our lives revolved around baseball for many, many years.  For the most part, my son has enjoyed it all.  He's talked about not having any vacations other than on baseball trips, but he has told me it's what it takes to get to the next level and it's been a sacrifice he's willing to make.  Not that it was much of a sacrifice for him as he loved being out there.  The only time I saw him even slightly bummed about something was on Christmas break his junior year of HS.  We went to the PG World Showcase down in Ft. Myers and he really wanted to be home.  It was up to him whether he went or not and he made the decision to go because he understood it may help him with his desire to play in college.  Other than that, he has a lot of fond memories growing up playing baseball.

I think part of what he does to cope with all the baseball he plays is very few of his close friends are baseball players.  Don't get me wrong, he loves his teammates and he has some baseball friends that will be his friends for life.  But his core group of people he hangs out with when he comes home are not baseball guys.  I think that is his way to kind of get away from it all.  I'm not sure if he will admit to that.  He'll just say that these are the guys he's hung out with since kindergarten.  I'm fine with it as he still LOVES to play.  Still wants to make it to the next level.  And he is a junior in college.

If you think this only occurs at travel tournaments, you haven't been to any rec games in a while.  I have seen it all and it happens at all levels. 

There is your answer.  It's not "fair" so they try to make it "fair" and people leave.   

No, I'm saying I had no choice if my kids wanted to play sports but to pay through the nose and spend every weekend in a camping chair because people have turned kids sports into a business. Look, you can't be a gymnast now if you don't start tumbling at age 3, by age 13 your over the hill. It's ridiculous, my daughter's soccer uniform bill was $650. They have 2 sets of practice jerseys, really? Come on, think for a minute, is this a good thing? i want my kids to play and have fun, if they are good enough to play HS and beyond, great, but pushing this hard is not the right thing to do. Little League is 501c for a reason, it was started with kid's best interests in mind. Travel ball is not about kid's best interests, it's about money. 

Greg65 -

Reading through your posts I have come to the conclusion that you are playing for the wrong programs.  Both my sons have played travel ball.  Part time starting at 10 or 11 and full time starting at 13 through HS.  Yes we have seen the things you have seen but it 90% of the time we see positives.  Yes it can be expensive but there are teams out there that do it for a lot less money.

We have played on teams that were parent coached.  We made sure to research the program ahead of time and pick one that fit our philosophies on how the game should be taught to our kids.  This year the younger one is moving to a non-parent coached HS level team.  The team has told us up front that winning is not their number 1 priority and if we came to this team to win then we should move to another team.  Their number 1 goal is getting kids placed into college programs or drafted into pro ball.  They have a very good track record of getting kids placed.  I have watched them play and they deliver on their promise.  I have seen them pull kids off a mound in a tight game to put another kid in so a recruiter/coach/scout can see them pitch.  

What I am getting at is this, you are speaking about your experiences.  Mine have been pretty much the opposite.  We have really enjoyed the experience and it has taught our kids a lot.

Greg ... You've selected the wrong travel programs. My kids played travel baseball and soccer in the summer. My son also played travel soccer and basketball in the fall and winter. I've never experienced the problems and the costs you talk about. I've seen problems. I've heard of them. I've never experienced any of them with my kids. They've done the complete travel ball journey. The few issues I had with parents as a travel coach also occurred in rec sports.

I sure hope so, like I said, I want them to play sports, rec is not an option. We are looking for a new baseball team. 

So that little thing on ESPN/ABC this week -- the LL world series -- isn't about money? 

Sorry, but in most cases travel ball is not about money.  No coaches I know can make a full time living from it.  Some of the academy teams try, but they aren't getting rich.  Umps at $60-$70/game -- nope, not getting rich.  The tournament people may get lucky and make a little money, but there are a lot of unforeseen costs when weather is taken into account.  The only guys who are making money are the bat people -- Easton ($500 mako) et. al. 

You could have stayed at the rec. level but did not.  I agree with others.  Your kids seem to be in the wrong programs.  In my experience, there is an inverse relationship between uniforms and quality of play.  The teams that get off the bus with the fancy uniforms, bags, etc. usually stink.  The guys I am worried about have a hat, a basic pair of pants and an UA shirt with a number on the back.  They put their money on the field and usually kick butt.     

Greg, I see that you’re a Colorado Dad … me too.    Don’t give up on competitive baseball out here just yet (if that is indeed what you and your son both want).  You’re missing out on a great opportunity.  I have no doubt that there are bad organizations out there (I’m pretty sure I know the “Academy” you are referencing), but I can tell you from firsthand experience that there are tremendous coaches, facilities and organizations in Colorado that can fulfill most any level of baseball ambition.

We came to CO when Jr was 6.  Although I love the game and played a bit, I had no preconceived notion about where he belonged in baseball … especially at 6.  We played the T-Ball, Coach pitch, Rec league circuit and had a blast.  At 9 or 10 we progressed to a team made up of classmates at his middle school that played ball together during recess.  I helped another Dad coach and we kept that same core of kids together for a few more years playing locally in somewhat advanced Youth Leagues and a handful of area tournaments (not a true travel team, but we could hold our own against some of the top travel teams in the state).  You speak of kids having fun … this was it.  Parents got along great, BBQ’s, post game pizza parties … everything youth baseball should be in IMO.   We are all still great friends, I believe 8 of the 12 kids we had will be starting for the two local high schools next spring!  No better feeling than running into these kids around town and reminiscing about the good ol’ days.

Fast forward to the high school years; Based on some success he had each spring, Jr. was invited to play on some local travel teams and eventually the elite teams.  We did our homework, visited coaches, talked to locals, compared costs, etc. and settled on the best fit each summer.  We got lucky again and found excellent fits each year … good coaching that actively helped Jr with his pursuit of his goal of playing in College.

My son started his Sr. year of High School on Tuesday … He told me Monday night that he had the best summer of his life playing travel baseball with some of the top players in the country.  He met a bunch of great kids and traveled to some of the top events (CA, GA, AZ, OH).  He said it was an unforgettable experience.  Through travel ball, he has realized his dream and is committed to play D1 baseball at a great school next year. 

Understanding your level of frustration with your current situation, all I can say is that there are plenty of positive scenarios out there also!  

I wasn't talking about the LL World Series. I was talking about your average American LL. I reviewed the budgets on the board for which I served. I know what they took in and what it costs to run a league. Spring season was $135 last year. Travel ball is 7-10 times more than that on average. You are being argumentative.  And,I didn't say the coaches or umps were making money, but the people who run the large clubs ARE. I also know a guy who ran one and I know how much he made. 

Greg65- One league and one club is hardly a large enough sample to justify casting a wide net of vilification on travel ball as a whole. Just as in any environment in which money is being exchanged, there is good and bad in everything.

LL international gets $7/kid from the local leagues. For each team you enter into the district tourney, you'll pay $100/team.  The winner of the district tourney doesn't pay to play in the state tourney or the regional.  All expenses are paid for the LLWS teams to travel/stay in Williamsport.  I was the president of our local LL and coached a long time in our local program.  We charged $45/kid, and that included the $7 that went to LL International.  We played on our local park fields at no cost and ran our own concession stands which paid the umpires.    $135 for a local "rec" team seems a little bit out of line, but I guess if the organization has field expenses to cover the additional cost may be justified

Yes, we had two fields that we the majority of the expenses. 

Just to add another data point to the discussion, our local LL charges $125/player for the Sr/Jr levels of softball/baseball.  The lower levels are progressively lower.   They also ask each family to participate in a fund raiser or you can opt out by paying an additional $25.  If you have multiple children participating, there is a "discount", but I forget exactly how much the 2nd or 3rd child is discounted. 

And like your district ours covers the expenses at the state/regional level - for the players only.  Parents have to cover their own expenses.

They do use the local parks and school fields which the county doesn't charge LL for, but our LL does spend quite a bit of money on field maintenance. 

The local LL runs the concession stands which also helps bring in some funds.  However, all of the umpires are volunteers.  They haven' resorted to paying umpires yet.  It has been discussed several times though.  The thought is that having to pay umpires would add a significant cost to each participant.  And as high as the cost to play is now, they don't want to increase it unless they absolutely have to.

All true FoxDad, 501c - not for profit, and the books are open to the public. To the contrary, if you have a club with, say, 250 players at $1300 a kid, that's $325k, a litlle more for older ages, a little less for younger, you don't pay your coaches, maybe incent them with a break on price for their kid, and keep your clubhouse rent down you still stand to make a tidy sum. Not a bad racket. Throw in some professional seminars you get a cut of, and a little merchandise sales, etc. 

I went back to read this and if your kids are burned out then why are you making them play?  That's on you not the league or travel ball.  Regardless of your sons talent if he doesn't love the game then let him stop playing.  I know a kid that threw 88 as a freshman that just quit one day because he didn't like it As much as running with his buddies.  some kids love it some don't.  Find something else for them to do.

You can't compare a community based rec programs fees with a "travel" team.  You're getting what you pay for.  For that $100 or so you're getting 12-20 games and maybe a handful of "practices" over a 12 week or so period.  You'll get a hat and jersey.  Most people are volunteers (been there, done that).  Sponsors help with funding as well. 

A good budget for a travel team will be $15,000 +/- $5000 (at least up north where we have to go indoors).  A big chunk goes toward indoor facilities.  The second chunk goes to tournaments.  Then you may have league games, umps, balls, insurance, field expenses, uniforms, etc.  Many teams will bring in position specific training from a paid coach during the offseason, like pitching.  Other teams will have paid coaches year round to avoid "daddy ball."  You'll practice 3-4 months in the of offseason.  And play 50++ games during the season.  Many organizations will hold fundraisers and tournaments to help offset the individual player cost.  

Do the math -- nobody's getting rich. 

I'm not making them play. Where did I say that? 

Clearly we were with the wrong club. 

Spring season was $135 last year. Travel ball is 7-10 times more than that on average.

You definitely found the wrong program. My 13u to 16u teams were $500-600 for ten tournaments. All four coaches played college ball. Two were former pros. Most of the better teams in our age group were of the same circumstances.

One team was started by a dad who didn't know baseball. He found kids with dads who did and stuck to the admin side.

Agreed.