Two outfield earned run questions

In #1, I probably wouldn't have scored an error if the runner was going all the way and there ended up not even being a throw home. Thus I would score this one earned.

In #2, If you score and E-8 to allow the runner to advance to 3rd and you don't believe he would've scored from second on the single, I believe you score it unearned (reconstruct the inning as if no errors occured and always give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher). Of course you can't reconstruct the entire inning, since it didn't happen, but you give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher thinking he could've gotten out of it had the inning continued.

Jmoff - if I have a question, I will ask you for sure.

If answering this, I am on point.

Earned run 1.
Error on advance. Unearned for 2.

I scored 1 as earned, thinking that the run would have most likely scored anyway. The home book scored it as an unearned run....I guess in HS you would expect that. (we were away)

In number 2 I scored it as an unearned run, even though the pitcher did not have the opportunity to prove he could get out of the inning, the error ended the game so in effect the pitcher was given the shadow of doubt.

Since this is Lent, I offer the following:

I probably come across as some scoring zealot, rules talking weirdo on these forums. Since I'm the official scorer for our HS, the reality is I give the benefit of the doubt to our hitters and pitchers because the coach needs something to take into those post season meetings to determine 1st, 2nd and 3rd team "all this and that". Around here you can see a kid in four games go 0-16 against you and still finish the season batting .600. You wonder how...

My son is my biggest scoring challenge. He's a big LHP who throws hard. When he's on the mound there are more of these squibbing, weakly hit spinning grounders and bloop pop-ups that seem to be "almost catchable". I sit there and struggle. I try to ask, "if I'm the hitter's dad what do I score that?" and bounce that off of being the pitcher's dad. Then I ask, "if another pitcher was pitching, what would I score".

When he hits, same thing. He came up last night in the 7th, down by 5 runs but rallying with bases loaded. He hits a 3-1 pitch in the hole between 1st & 2nd, looks like a clean single, but second baseman lays out, stops ball and makes a throw from his kness on wet outfield grass. Throw is wide of first on what would've been a bang/bang play. They all look at me, "does he give his kid a hit or score error?". Bottom line I give every other kid on the team a hit, but when it's mine I initially scored an E (otherwise I'm just playing favorites). After a couple of parents begged me to change it, I changed it to hit.

When I'm scoring for "fun" or for the love of the game, it's a heck of a lot easier.

Answering questions on this forum is easy, because there is no emotional attachment, just analytical assessment. I guess that's the art of scoring, dismiss the emotional attachment. I'm not there yet...

Wishing you all better luck.

JMoff, I can relate to your dilemna in regard to scoring decisions that affect your son. My son argued (nicely) with me over an earned run that I charged to him. The batter (who later scored) got on through a slow roller to the second baseman. The second baseman was slow in getting to the ball (a mental error) and then could not get the ball out of his glove (no bobble or drop) in time to get the runner. My son said that since the second baseman didn't take the ball out of his glove cleanly, and he would have had the runner had he either charged harder or cleared his glove cleanly, he should not be charged with that runner. I ruled a hit. Is there a reason to side with my son on this matter?

I think all official scorers have the same dilemma when it comes to our kids. I have an informal rule that when there is a close play that involves someone’s son they don’t get to give their opinion, myself included. I have a group of semi-educated baseball aficionados that I will ask on a close play, I try to get several opinions before putting it down in the book what I think the play was. I am like you JMof when it can go either way I give the benefit of doubt to our player for the same reasons. As far as mental errors you can’t put them in the book, so if a player gets a bad read or break then you can’t score it as an error even though it was. We had a first basemen cut a ball from the outfield that would have easily nailed a runner going home and I had to give the run scored to the pitcher even through he did not deserve it.

Just Watching:
We don't have the benefit of instant replay for a second or third look to make a decision. I find that my initial gut reaction is probably the best.

If he had taken it out of his glove cleanly, would he have got the runner? If so, you can score error.

Was the totality of the play more than "ordinary effort". A HS second baseman charging hard making a do or die play is probably more than ordinary effort. Doesn't sound like that was the case here.

You can always do the BOF thing and ask a friend. If I have one close by who knows scoring, I ask them what they would call. I've started doing that more these last few weeks on my own kid's stuff.

Friday was easy, everything he gave up was hit on the screws. Makes scoring simple...

Thanks to BOF and JMoff for your replies. They were very helpful as I mover forward in this job.

If the infielder had either charged the ball properly or gotten it out of his glove right away, the hitter would have been out. I did not want to be seen as favoring my son over another player.

I found out that I was taken off the hook for the call when the head coach reversed the hit I put in the book and gave the second baseman an error, as JMoff suggested. My son was not charged with the earned run.

JW, I forgot to add that in the past I have asked the head coach after a game to clarify a play, which you have already done. Also our coach has a policy of not making public our stats for a number of reasons. 1st…competitive scouting from other teams, 2nd ..dealing with parents.

Two very good reasons to NOT make stats public.

I frequently wonder about the logic of MaxPreps, why advertise.

The other ugly truth is that college and pro scouts put very little credibility in HS stats. I don't think HS coaches do either. They know who can play and who can't.

All this work we do really isn't that important in the end.

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:
All this work we do really isn't that important in the end.

Boy is that the truth! I have yet to see a kid get an offer because of his great HS stats. Scouting a line up is also not that difficult, the 3 & 4 hitters can rake and the first two have wheels and can make contact, and the rest who knows, it's a mixture of both, just a notch down....

Unfortunately we don't figure this out until their Sr season after 4 years of scouring the scorebook, plugging in numbers in a spreadsheet, looking over ERA’s to make sure they are correct, and guess what ? it all really means nothing, and us dopey dads don’t figure it out until it’s too late....

But of course it all means so much more in college so I can’t wait to take my scorebook to his first college game….

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:

Unfortunately we don't figure this out until their Sr season after 4 years of scouring the scorebook, plugging in numbers in a spreadsheet, looking over ERA’s to make sure they are correct, and guess what ? it all really means nothing, and us dopey dads don’t figure it out until it’s too late....

But of course it all means so much more in college so I can’t wait to take my scorebook to his first college game….

Boy is this so true! I've been keeping detailed stats since 10 year old ball and in my world they're the most important numbers on Earth. Now he's a freshman in college and still take the book to every game he pitches and get irritated everytime the college scorekeeper screws up earned and unearned runs! LOL! Oh well, stat geeks can't change their spots any more than leopards can.