Two Strike Hitting

What's the count? o-2? 1-2? 2-2? 3-2? Am I a power hitter? How fast does the Pitcher throw? Does he have a nasty slider that he can throw for a strike on any count? Does he like to throw inside and put people on their butt? How many people are on base? What base are they on? Will a ground ball do my job? How did I get to two strikes? Do I need a fly ball to score a run? How many outs are there? These are all things I think are important. What was the hitter's job when he went to the plate in the first place? Many times a hitter's two strike approach should be the same as his 0 or 1 strike approach. Sometimes his job is just to make contact.

Ok...

Care to elaborate on a certain situation? Again, no matter the count, I always choke up with two strikes. I think that no matter what, the hitter's job ALWAYS has to be to make contact with two strikes. In other words, do what you have to do to put the ball in play.

Again, Mic, you ask some good questions and we can answer them all, but maybe we should go one at a time. Any one in particular you want to discuss?

quote:

Originally posted by beemax:
Ok...

Care to elaborate on a certain situation? Again, no matter the count, I always choke up with two strikes. I think that no matter what, the hitter's job ALWAYS has to be to make contact with two strikes. In other words, do what you have to do to put the ball in play.

Again, Mic, you ask some good questions and we can answer them all, but maybe we should go one at a time. Any one in particular you want to discuss?

Okay. Just for example. I would say if I was down 1 run in the bottom of the 9th with 1 out and runners on 1st and 3rd, I would not want someone at the plate "just trying to make contact," but that's just my opinion. I would rather have themtry to hit a fly ball or home run than just make contact and hit itno a double play and we're going home. If he happens to swing and miss or takes strike three on a pitch down in the zone, I still have a chance to tie the game with the next hitter. Now, if the next hitter gets two strikes, then your approach would be fine with me.

Another scenario, tie ball game bottom of the 9th no outs, Derrick Lee, Aramis Ramirez, Mark DeRosa coming up. I want the first two swinging for the downs if they get a pitch to do it on ANY count. If the first 2 go down, I want DeRosa trying to go yard until he gets two strikes, but then I'd want him to be defensive, but not to choke up so if the Pitcher threw a mistake he could still hit it out of the park. But that's just my opinion and that is what I meant a while back when I said it was up to the Manager what the hitter does in some circumstances.

Okay Mic,

We are not talking situational hitting here. I already have a thread on that. This is purely TWO STRIKE hitting.

With your first scenario, my thinking is that striking out does nothing, so I would rather take my chances putting the ball in play with two strikes. Especially with a runner on third and less than two out. In this situation, down one at home in the ninth, the infield is probably playing in because the thinking is usually "play for the win on the road and the tie at home." If the infield is in you most likely are not going to hit into a double play because the infield is not a double play depth. Nevertheless, no matter if the infield is in or at double play depth, putting the ball in play gives you more of a chance to get that run in.

With that situation, I would be looking for a ball up with less than two so I could get it airborne, so I agree with you there. However, with two strikes, IMO your thinking must change. Again, it does no good in this situation if you don't put the ball IN PLAY. I don't care who's coming up next, all I know is that there are a lot more chances for hits when you put the ball in play then when you don't.

As for your second scenario, Lee, Ramirez and DeRosa get paid millions, so they know what they should do in that situation and they aren't going to be looking to Lou to tell them what to do. I'm not sure that it is really relevant to this convo.

Any other questions, scenarios?

I would prefer them just "drive" the ball on any count. Be a Chauffer of the baseball. Hit it hard whether it be a groundball a line drive or a fly ball. Just center it.

quote:

Originally posted by beemax:

As for your second scenario, Lee, Ramirez and DeRosa get paid millions, so they know what they should do in that situation and they aren't going to be looking to Lou to tell them what to do. I'm not sure that it is really relevant to this convo.

Any other questions, scenarios?

Wow! Once you start to make millions you no longer take signs??? Since Jeter and A-Rod make millions and Cano doesn't yet, would A-Rod or Jeter tell Cano to play in or stay back in the scenario you were talking about with the runners on 1st and 3rd? I guess George doesn't need to replace Torre, huh? Just let the millionaire ball players run the team.

Mic, if you want to start a thread on how many big league hitters take signs, be my guest. We are talking about two strike hitting in this thread. I was simply trying to respond to what you said about the Lee, Ramirez, and DeRosa scenario.

I was not talking about how Lee, Ramirez, and DeRosa would be positioned on the field. Managers are always moving players around defensively, so yes, I could see Lou, or Torre, or whoever moving the infield back or in. As managers that is their job.

What I can't see is Derek Lee, Aramis Ramirez, A-Rod or Derek Jeter looking to their manager with a tie game in the ninth and nobody on to see if they should swing for the fences or not. What I meant by "they get paid millions" is that they get paid for a reason, and in that situation they aren't looking to someone else to tell them what to do. Lou isn't going to tell them to swing for the fences anyway. You show me a manager who has ever said that to a player and I will show you a manager who has never been in pro ball. They are getting paid millions because they know what they should be doing up there in that situation. If a runner was to get on it could change, but name me the last time A-Rod, Lee, or Ramirez had to sac bunt or hit and run.

I do agree with you that it is up to the manager in some circumstances whether you hit and run, bunt, take, steal, or other things. Just not in YOUR SCENARIO with the Cubs with nobody on, nobody out. It simply doesn't apply to this thread. If you want to talk more strategy, again start another thread or pm me, but I started this post to talk TWO STRIKE HITTING.

Now if you want to talk more two strike situations, please do. That's what I want to talk about here.

beemax,
From a mechanical standpoint Rudy Jaramillo likes to have his hitters 'pre-stride' (if you will).

Swingbuilder could comment on this better than I.

Here's a clip of Michael Young that, I'm told, is his two strike approach.

bee,

I still say it depends on the hitter and what their goal was when they went to the plate. I agree those three guys don't do those things you mentioned, although I have seen all hit and run on occasion. I would also say that at least two of those guys will NEVER choke up and just try to make contact with two strikes.

I believe a hitter has to take what he does best and do that. In my opinion, you never give yourself up unless it is a sacrifice or a hit and run. You are asking for our opinions right? You don't believe everyone should do as you do, do you?

Mic,

No, I don't believe everyone should do as I do. I just know what I have tried. I know what has worked and what hasn't worked, and it always depends on the individual. For me, I choke up and spread out a little with two strikes. This has worked for me. If someone were to ask me what to do with two strikes, I would suggest this first.

LC,

Good clip from a very good hitter. The whole purpose of striding early (pre-stride) is to get the foot down early to see the ball as long as possible. As an overall hitting approach, I believe getting the foot down "early" saps you of power by making the swing more two part (start "stride," stop, start swing). However, I do believe this helps see the ball longer and will give you a better chance to put the ball in play.

Why not do this all the time? You may ask. Again, for my approach as a corner infielder, I need to hit with power, and IMO this isn't the way to create power. Crate contact, possibly, create power, no.

I think this approach is worth a try for any hitter looking for a two strike approach.

Remember also that IMO you should look for a fastball away with two strikes.

From beemax,

quote:

As an overall hitting approach, I believe getting the foot down "early" saps you of power by making the swing more two part (start "stride," stop, start swing).

Agree. 100%.

The Young clip is nothing more than no-stride.

quote:

The Young clip is nothing more than no-stride.

Yes sir.
And it appears to be different than his regular approach.


Goes to no / pre / early stride-- with 2 strikes.

Is two strike hitting different if working with MLB players as against college and HS players?

LClifton,

Very good example and even Canseco would do the same thing. I am a big believer in the 2 strike approach, both mechanically and mentally. I would go so far to say that every hitter uses a two strike approach at least sometimes. If not physically, then mentally, whether they realize it or not. It's kind of hard to not be aware that you have two strikes on you.

In fact, some of the infamous "count defense" is based on what is most likely to happen with two strike counts. Then again, maybe some don't believe in "count defense".

He hath spoken!

TR,

Good question. I think two strike hitting can be different depending on the level you are at because the pitchers are better at each level. However, I think the approach should always stay the same as far as looking fastball away. I believe it allows you to adjust to more pitches with two strikes.

PG,

Good point on "count defense." Agree 100%

LC,

Way to back up your example of Young. I love it!

One very simple point that gets lost in all the 2-strike approach talk.

With no strikes – The hitter sees a real good hard curve ball low and away on the paint. Most good hitters will take this pitch even if it’s called a strike. Why? Because they are likely to see a better pitch to hit in that AB. There is no reason to spoil the pitch or foul it off in order to stay alive. And it could be called a ball.

With two strikes – Same pitch… Same location. What do you do? Is there a different approach regarding what you want to do with that same pitch?

Beemax, I think you and I are on the same exact page, only you're a lot better hitter than I am!

BTW, You and your brother (among others) continue to bring great stuff to the discussions here. I for one will be pulling hard for you to get to the top, even though you never attended a PG event.

What happened to Chameleon?

quote:

What happened to Chameleon?

I'm not privy (so, I guess someone will tell me mind my own), but from reading on another website....

There are members of a certain hitting guru's webpage, who are not allowed to discuss that info without said hitting guru's permission.

From what I can gather, some ex-members claim to have been kicked out for not following all the rules, including publicly questioning some of the guru's philosophies.

Additionally, from what I can gather, is that some of the still-members of the guru clan may object to those ex-members persistence in discussing philosophies which are contrary to the guru. And, if given the opportunity, will persuade those with the power to excommunicate to exercise that power.

I read all the last posts by Chameleon and failed to see anything worthy of the big boot. So, either it was deleted.....or, his kickoff was unjustified.

Either way, it's a shame. He brought a great deal of info and passion to this site in a very short time frame. He was willing to share his hitting beliefs, and his vast array of videos. Furthermore, if you join his website, he doesn't forbid you from sharing info obtained there. Hopefully, he'll reinvent and return.