Two-way players

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
I would also like to add something to my previous post. That kid I talked about became a first round pick as a pitcher. I believe if he had gone to another program and only played the field and hit he would have been drafted but not as a first rounder. I believe if he had been a two way player he would have been drafted but I seriously doubt a first rounder. The effort and time it takes at that level to achieve that type of success and to reach your full potential at that level is very demanding. Even for the very talented player.

That was my point about Ownings, he could have potentially been a first rounder if he had just done one or the other, probably pitcher only.
To do one or the other at the next level (in this case college) is very difficult.

Another good point not discussed is that it's not just more time in the cage or in the pen training but specific conditioning for each position and hitting as well. Totally different, which do you do?

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Another good point not discussed is that it's not just more time in the cage or in the pen training but specific conditioning for each position and hitting as well. Totally different, which do you do?

Right now all his strength and conditioning work is being done as a pitcher. TPM has stated my initial concern, but as so many of you have pointed out I am not going to worry about it now. He is just a freshman, who has only gone through the fall. I'm sure things will have a way of working out in the spring. I can't really change it anyway, and he is happy. That is the main thing!

Your 100% correct. The main thing is he is happy!

Houston Street.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
Houston Street.

Houston Street played two-way a little but I wouldn't consider him a full-time two-way player. Here are his number of AB's by year when he was at Texas.

2002 - 2 AB
2003 - 68 AB with AVG of .176 (everyday starters had over 200 AB's)
2004 - 0 AB

Darren Dreifort would still be hitting 50 a year if the Dodgers would have recognized his true talent Batting instead of going all gaga over his live arm.
Pitchers are a dime a dozen, great batters not so much!

Danny Hultzen, P/1B UVA

cheapseats,
Facts can really get in the way.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
Houston Street.

If we are allowed to name drop, Matt Weiters was a pretty good two way guy, Rob Segedin, Hultzen, Stroman, Mark McGwire, the list could go on and on, main thing is focus, have fun, do what you love to do and reach for the stars.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
cheapseats,
Facts can really get in the way.

That's okay, things still worked out pretty well for him as a pitcher only.

And look at those names people are dropping and look at the level they played. If you think your son has Hultzen talent then there is no need to worry about it.

“The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do.” ― Walter Bagehot

Hey Birdman14,

Good luck to your son going into the spring and the regular season. Please keep us updated on his progress as a two way player throughout the year.

My son just committed last month to a very good program, and is going to get an opportunity to be a two-way OF/P too in the 2012 season. I know it's going to be tough, as a very small percentage of kids are doing it. I have to say, I really like the quote by Walter Bagehot above that Juggler posted...Very True!

Son was a 2 way player in high school. It did create some problems in being overused. He was a catcher/pitcher which is a problem in itself. At Auburn he didn't want to pitch but was called on to close a game from time to time as a freshman. Of course he did it. No problems. As a sophomore he was a pure 2 way player catching, hitting and a weekend starter usually batting 3rd or 4th in the lineup. He would stay in the game as the DH when he was pulled from the mound. I think he could have done better if he focused on pitching OR position/hitting. New coach came in when he was a junior and he was given the choice to pitch or hit. He chose hitting.
In pro ball (short season "A" 2005) he was asked to pitch in a marathon game that lasted 22 innings and he declined.
When he decided to retire I asked him if he had any plans to ask the club to pitch at the pro level and he said he didn't want to it.

Being 2-way has it's pros and cons. I don't think I would encourage it. If your son has a strong desire to do both then IMHO I think he should focus on hitting and allow his bat to be his trump card. An established hitter (that can pitch) will be given the opportunity to pitch while an established pitcher (that can hit) seldom get the opportunity to pick up a bat.

Fungo

We are heading into a Junior season now at a D-2. The plan according to the Fall exit interview sounds a bit like Fungo's son. My guy will be at 2nd, hit in the 3 hole and start the 2nd game of the DH on the weekend where he will get to hit for himself. Coach said to just be careful, and that if his arm got sore they would move him to first for a game.

Thats the plan...we will see how the season unfolds!

Last year he was the 3rd starter and played 3rd. So at least this year he will have a shorter throw.

Fungo,
If my son was given the choice between an outfielder with a chance to swing the bat everyday or a Friday Night starter, I think he'd choose the outfield? That's what I'd hope for. The majority of the interest garnered from schools was based on his outfield play, speed, and a decent bat. He wasn't scouted too much on the bump the last year due to arm issues. However, He ended up having a very good summer/fall on the mound, and that's what transformed the interest into an offer. Honestly, I'm still concerned with arm issues. He had growth plate problems as a 13/14 year old 8th grader, and UCL problems as a 16 year old sophomore. He's now a senior, has been feeling good...but I'm still nervous.

FYI ... 2-way guys can be known as Nextel guys.

quote:

bsbl247 posted....If my son was given the choice between an outfielder with a chance to swing the bat everyday or a Friday Night starter, I think he'd choose the outfield? That's what I'd hope for.

I'm going to come at this from another angle....This statement above got me thinking (oh no, not that!). A Friday night starter is typically the ace of the staff. Would a Head Coach want his ace / two-way player preferring to be a position player in the new College Baseball 2.0 with less bat pop, more speed and great emphasis on pitching & defense? Thoughts?

quote:

Originally posted by fenwaysouth:

quote:

bsbl247 posted....If my son was given the choice between an outfielder with a chance to swing the bat everyday or a Friday Night starter, I think he'd choose the outfield? That's what I'd hope for.

I'm going to come at this from another angle....This statement above got me thinking (oh no, not that!). A Friday night starter is typically the ace of the staff. Would a Head Coach want his ace / two-way player preferring to be a position player in the new College Baseball 2.0 with less bat pop, more speed and great emphasis on pitching & defense? Thoughts?

A true two way player, IMO is one who pitches as a starter one game a week and then plays a position every day for his bat (or usually as the everyday DH). There was a lefty at UVA, can't remember his name, he played first when he didn't start and batted for himself. This is very rare.

If I am a coach, concerned for my job, and my starters aren't hitting with the new bats, you better beleive I am gonna use everyone I can to get in the lineup. Probably still won't see this at the arger programs.

I see this (being called a two way player) more as a player who is able to play multiple positions, when called upon at certain times, which because of scholarship and roster restraints is becoming more and more common (especiallly in smaller programs).

An example of what I am talking about, Matt Weiters, who would on occasion take off his catchers gear to close a game if needed. He threw the ball very hard, but he was not what I considered a pitcher. Clearly he was a catcher, who threw the ball on occassion. He had a powerful 90+ FB and often times this froze the batter, but he wasn't all that successful at all times.

Clemson had Ryan Harvey (son of Bryan) who was the everyday DH and a weekend starter. He was what I considered a two way player. BTW, he got drafted for his bat but after struggling for years they converted him to pitcher, only I do beleive they did that as his dad was with the organization for many years. This is not normally what organizations do, they draft you for where they feel you are best suited, and rarely do most get a second chance if one position doesn't work.

Birdman, I understand your concern, it's very hard being a jack of all trades and master of none, but I wouldn't worry too much about it, as a freshman player things change and rarely do they turn out as intended when one is recruited.

Just sit back and enjoy! It worked last year, it'll work again this year!

TPM I think your talking about the Doolittle kid and he was a true 2 way player. He was in the starting rotation and played first when he was not on the hill. When he pitched he hit for himself. He is a tremendous talent. These things always work themselves out.