Anyone know the specifics on the reason?
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Investigation to last several months....
Doesn't sound good.
From UC Davis statement sounds like it was an issue within the team as they are looking to "determine the best path forward to provide a safe and inclusive experience for all team members".
For a safe and inclusive experience everyone needs to get in a circle, hold hands and sing Kumbayah.
Geez! Life isn’t always fair. Instead of cowering in a corner man up and figure out how you’re going to overcome the obstacles.
No wonder so many kids come out of college soft now!
@RJM posted:No wonder so many kids come out of college soft now!
I guess I’m just lucky, but the young people I know who have graduated college in the past 10 years (and those who haven’t) are far and away much better people and citizens than my generation (low bar?). They’re smarter, more resourceful, more adaptable, more thoughtful, better parents, and much kinder… much much kinder.
If it's hazing, that's a fine line for me.
Some say making the rookie walk to the bullpen at the start of every game with a pink Hello Kitty backpack full of gum and stuff is hazing. To me, that's crap. That's not hazing, it's tradition.
That being said, I recall a NJ HS football program getting in trouble because upper classmates were pinning down freshman in training camp and sticking bananas in their rectums. Now, that's hazing and cannot be tolerated at all.
@MidAtlanticDad posted:I guess I’m just lucky, but the young people I know who have graduated college in the past 10 years (and those who haven’t) are far and away much better people and citizens than my generation (low bar?). They’re smarter, more resourceful, more adaptable, more thoughtful, better parents, and much kinder… much much kinder.
Omg 100% on this.
@Francis7 posted:If it's hazing, that's a fine line for me.
Some say making the rookie walk to the bullpen at the start of every game with a pink Hello Kitty backpack full of gum and stuff is hazing. To me, that's crap. That's not hazing, it's tradition.
That being said, I recall a NJ HS football program getting in trouble because upper classmates were pinning down freshman in training camp and sticking bananas in their rectums. Now, that's hazing and cannot be tolerated at all.
If it's was the latter wouldn't the police be investigating? For all parties involved, I hope some mom upset about her kid's playing time and crappy freshman year (wasn't UC Davis remote learning all year?) is choosing to focus her frustrations on some perceived hazing. I"m hoping it was the backpack
Hopefully it is not a relative of "IAMTHATGUY" that was the whistleblower.
@LousyLefty posted:From UC Davis statement sounds like it was an issue within the team as they are looking to "determine the best path forward to provide a safe and inclusive experience for all team members".
Wow. Cancel culture strikes again - at least that’s what it sounds like. Most people would be amazed at some of the things that go on in a college athletic program (both good and bad). But if you aren’t part of the program it’s really none of your business.
@MidAtlanticDad posted:I guess I’m just lucky, but the young people I know who have graduated college in the past 10 years (and those who haven’t) are far and away much better people and citizens than my generation (low bar?). They’re smarter, more resourceful, more adaptable, more thoughtful, better parents, and much kinder… much much kinder.
In my personal experience I would agree. It’s probably because we’re around kids who are/were mostly disciplined athletes with goals. But in general too many college kids are coming out soft with helicopter and/or snowplow parents.
@adbono posted:Wow. Cancel culture strikes again - at least that’s what it sounds like. Most people would be amazed at some of the things that go on in a college athletic program (both good and bad). But if you aren’t part of the program it’s really none of your business.
Baylor basketball says hi!
@2022NYC posted:Hopefully it is not a relative of "IAMTHATGUY" that was the whistleblower.
We fully support hazing as long as it's in good fun.
@OskiSD posted:Baylor basketball says hi!
Some of the things that went on at Baylor under Dave Bliss (who appears to be certifiably nuts) were horrific. So they got rid of Bliss and the problem players and moved on. They didn’t cancel the program. Don’t get me wrong - I’m not a Baylor apologist. I don’t care for Baylor in the least. I’m just not in favor of folding up a program when times get tough.
@adbono posted:Wow. Cancel culture strikes again - at least that’s what it sounds like. Most people would be amazed at some of the things that go on in a college athletic program (both good and bad). But if you aren’t part of the program it’s really none of your business.
"Part of the program" would include the actual university, with its rules and policies. It is certainly their business.
@anotherparent posted:"Part of the program" would include the actual university, with its rules and policies. It is certainly their business.
I agree with that
@MidAtlanticDad posted:I guess I’m just lucky, but the young people I know who have graduated college in the past 10 years (and those who haven’t) are far and away much better people and citizens than my generation (low bar?). They’re smarter, more resourceful, more adaptable, more thoughtful, better parents, and much kinder… much much kinder.
Yeah I'd say your really lucky, or....
I work at a job where I've employed a lot of HS/college kids over the years. A lot.
So back to the "or", or you are a really pathetic human being. Because I've found 99% of those kids I've employed to be lazy, all about me, and resoundingly incompetent.
@SomeBaseballDad posted:Yeah I'd say your really lucky, or....
I work at a job where I've employed a lot of HS/college kids over the years. A lot.
So back to the "or", or you are a really pathetic human being. Because I've found 99% of those kids I've employed to be lazy, all about me, and resoundingly incompetent.
You just provided evidence MidAtlanticDad observation about Gen Z is correct. No need to call someone pathetic. It does nothing to persuade anyone and it’s not kind. A comment like that isn’t what this board is about.
@LousyLefty posted:You just provided evidence MidAtlanticDad observation about Gen Z is correct. No need to call someone pathetic. It does nothing to persuade anyone and it’s not kind. A comment like that isn’t what this board is about.
Stop being a meanie…I need a safe space now
@old_school posted:Stop being a meanie…I need a safe space now
Don't worry you are safe here!
I don't think that LL was being a meanie, just truthful.
@SomeBaseballDad posted:Yeah I'd say your really lucky, or....
I work at a job where I've employed a lot of HS/college kids over the years. A lot.
So back to the "or", or you are a really pathetic human being. Because I've found 99% of those kids I've employed to be lazy, all about me, and resoundingly incompetent.
How pumped up do you expect an employee to get for $10-12 per hour? If you fire them there are plenty of other jobs available.
Heard a rumor through some ballplayers who "know some players" (so take that for what it's worth). What they described to son would be a little bit more than Hello Kitty backpack, but def not what I would consider on the level of the banana situation. As with all pranks, there are ways I could see it going sideways and someone getting hurt, as can happen with a game of tag really. I tend to believe this is somewhat close to the truth as the UC Davis police are not involved in the investigation, which (I think) rules out drugs, drinking, assault of any kind, as those would all be a criminal investigation.
Hopefully this is true and they can move on quickly during a critical recruiting period for an already struggling program.
Edited: removing my post; it doesn't belong here with the rest of the civil discourse
Maybe you guys should take this "discussion" to private messages. One thing to consider taking into those discussions. It's possible - if not likely - that both @SomeBaseballDad and @MidAtlanticDad speak some truth. I have been a hiring manager for about the last 15 years. It's not at all unfair to generally categorize the generation in question as "lazy, all about me, and incompetent." My experience shows the majority are this way. It's far more true than not. "Much kinder… much much kinder."? Yes, that's also the case, but being kind doesn't do anything to make a person less lazy, less entitled, or less incompetent. Being kind is a GREAT trait and I'm glad the world is getting more of it, but being kind is a helluva lot easier to pull off than hard work and competence. I'll take it one level deeper. I love my son DEARLY. He gets good grades, stays out of trouble, is kind to others, and works extremely hard for BASEBALL. He is an overall good person. More positive than negative. But he is very much part of this lazy generation. He is too often "all about me" and is largely incompetent when it comes to things outside of school and baseball. It's going to take a lot more than kindness for him to navigate successfully through life.
@DanJ posted:He gets good grades, stays out of trouble, is kind to others, and works extremely hard for BASEBALL. He is an overall good person. More positive than negative. But he is very much part of this lazy generation. He is too often "all about me" and is largely incompetent when it comes to things outside of school and baseball. It's going to take a lot more than kindness for him to navigate successfully through life.
Change the pronoun and sport and you are describing ME as a senior in HS. I think it's more an age/maturity thing than generational. (and also I noticed in the absence of my sport in my mid-20's, the same competitive drive transferred to work/projects/etc. Maybe "drive" has finite levels?)
Too bad there aren't archived internet boards of the the previous generation saying the same things about US. I'm guessing they thought we were losers too
Oh, I am definitely not holier than thou. Did my father's generation think me and my generation was less than his? Absolutely. But he was right. I am nowhere near the person my father is when it comes to drive, self-reliance and competence. And my father can't touch his father when it comes to such things. There's a clearly visible trend here and it won't give anyone warm fuzzies for the future. We can be restating what previous generation's parents said, and still be right.
@DanJ posted:Oh, I am definitely not holier than thou. Did my father's generation think me and my generation was less than his? Absolutely. But he was right. I am nowhere near the person my father is when it comes to drive, self-reliance and competence. And my father can't touch his father when it comes to such things. There's a clearly visible trend here and it won't give anyone warm fuzzies for the future. We can be restating what previous generation's parents said, and still be right.
How do I like this response more than one time?! Spot on IMO
I have to remind myself who is raising this next generation. Mine. We are teaching our kids, as a whole, manners, respect, work ethic, maturity, and decision making skills. We allow them to sit around and play video games rather than the things my generation where I was raised were taught. this generation did not create the everybody gets a trophy, we did.
However there are many exceptions and my oldest son is one of them. I’m a fairly successful man and at 27 he has done incredible things with his professional life already that far exceed what I have done. There is no way that he could work any harder or be more responsible. If I listed his accomplishments to date most on here wouldn’t believe it. So I won’t. I do worry about lack of balance in his life though as his social and dating life take too much of a backseat to his business interests.
I think the young generation is more stratified than past generations. The hardest working of this generation are truly amazing - they are far more advanced and accomplished in any area I can think of - mathematics, computer science, theater, art, sports... you name it. But many, many young people are unequipped to succeed as adults and are being left behind for any number of reasons - lazy parenting, helicopter/lawn mower parenting, single person parenting, poverty, poor adult examples, poor effort in the classroom, entitlement... again, you name it. The difference in skills, capabilities and effort between the top and rest is going to drive income disparity further than it is today.
I think a lot depends where you live and how you raise your children.
If you do everything for them, they become lazy. Both my daughter's friends of her generation (GenX) and sons, Millenium are successful, well educated and very nice people. That's not to say that at some point they were lazy and just wanted to be kids.
That has absolutely nothing to do with coming by every once in a while with a nasty attutude. You get back what you give out.
JMO
I'll add to this thread drift......
I think that there is truth on both sides of this argument, we always look fondly on the past generations and skeptically on the current generation(s). Isn't this the way it always goes?? Generational change is hard on all of us.
What gives me comfort is knowing that many of these young men and women are not soft and self centered.....
I'm very fortunate to have the privilege of flying these young people all over the world to their duty stations and back. I deliver selfless warriors to some of the crappiest places on earth to defend all of us and these young people are good at it!! We are all very lucky to have these kids on the front line, protecting of our country and the freedom we enjoy here.
Don't be fooled, just because their skill sets are different than ours, that doesn't mean that the job isn't getting done.......... I sleep well at night knowing that our youth are on watch, and hope that you do as well.
PS. The best part of my job is bringing these kids back to the USA!!!!
I will say that my 2021 college grad has grown up as much in 2 months of the real world the as he did in 4 years of college. He has already learned that many of his professors had no clue and that his drive and killer networking will drive his career….I wasn’t impressed with academia before he went to school and I less impressed now.
I do think playing baseball was outstanding lessons for him as he translates them to the real world.
@2020Lefty posted:I'll add to this thread drift......
I think that there is truth on both sides of this argument, we always look fondly on the past generations and skeptically on the current generation(s). Isn't this the way it always goes?? Generational change is hard on all of us.
What gives me comfort is knowing that many of these young men and women are not soft and self centered.....
I'm very fortunate to have the privilege of flying these young people all over the world to their duty stations and back. I deliver selfless warriors to some of the crappiest places on earth to defend all of us and these young people are good at it!! We are all very lucky to have these kids on the front line, protecting of our country and the freedom we enjoy here.
Don't be fooled, just because their skill sets are different than ours, that doesn't mean that the job isn't getting done.......... I sleep well at night knowing that our youth are on watch, and hope that you do as well.
PS. The best part of my job is bringing these kids back to the USA!!!!
That is very cool!
@2020Lefty posted:I'll add to this thread drift......
I think that there is truth on both sides of this argument, we always look fondly on the past generations and skeptically on the current generation(s). Isn't this the way it always goes?? Generational change is hard on all of us.
What gives me comfort is knowing that many of these young men and women are not soft and self centered.....
I'm very fortunate to have the privilege of flying these young people all over the world to their duty stations and back. I deliver selfless warriors to some of the crappiest places on earth to defend all of us and these young people are good at it!! We are all very lucky to have these kids on the front line, protecting of our country and the freedom we enjoy here.
Don't be fooled, just because their skill sets are different than ours, that doesn't mean that the job isn't getting done.......... I sleep well at night knowing that our youth are on watch, and hope that you do as well.
PS. The best part of my job is bringing these kids back to the USA!!!!
I wonder if these kids, raised on Twitter and Reddit, will be able to keep their threads on topic? 😇
@2020Lefty posted:I'll add to this thread drift......
I think that there is truth on both sides of this argument, we always look fondly on the past generations and skeptically on the current generation(s). Isn't this the way it always goes?? Generational change is hard on all of us.
What gives me comfort is knowing that many of these young men and women are not soft and self centered.....
I'm very fortunate to have the privilege of flying these young people all over the world to their duty stations and back. I deliver selfless warriors to some of the crappiest places on earth to defend all of us and these young people are good at it!! We are all very lucky to have these kids on the front line, protecting of our country and the freedom we enjoy here.
Don't be fooled, just because their skill sets are different than ours, that doesn't mean that the job isn't getting done.......... I sleep well at night knowing that our youth are on watch, and hope that you do as well.
PS. The best part of my job is bringing these kids back to the USA!!!!
I employ many of these kids after they are done their service, I don't find them to be much different then any other kids of the generation. Some are great and highly motivated but many more aren't, my biggest issue would be most are focused on the now and short term items and have no concept of the long game...they don't understand it takes time to learn, build and cultivate relationships. If it doesn't happen immediately they are ready to cut and move. I guess it is a lesson that needs to be learned but time is different at age 22 vs 40 or 60.
FWIW, I'm 58. Worked my tail off my entire life since I was 14. But, I have two buddies from HS who are the same age who have never worked a real job for more than one year in their life. So...go figure.
The one thing that I do believe is true is that MOST (but not all!) are younger today maturity wise than previous generations.
In 1958, being 18 was the equivalent of being 27 today. In 1980, being 18 was the equivalent of being 25 today. And, today's 18 year olds are like being 14 in 1980 or 12 in 1958. Again...in terms of maturity and emotionally.
I think it's because people had in rougher in the past and living FOR MANY today is easier...except for the unfortunate.
The Pareto principle will also apply to the kids in this discussion, since we are al using anecdotal observations, I will not show my numbers getting to 80/20.
Usually when threads swerve off topic it degenerates into negativity, politics, or silliness. IMO this one has done the opposite. It has actually gotten way better. How refreshing!
@Francis7 posted:The one thing that I do believe is true is that MOST (but not all!) are younger today maturity wise than previous generations.
In 1958, being 18 was the equivalent of being 27 today. In 1980, being 18 was the equivalent of being 25 today. And, today's 18 year olds are like being 14 in 1980 or 12 in 1958. Again...in terms of maturity and emotionally.
I don't know about the exact ages but as concept I think this is spot on. Kids are babied for a much longer time then needed, hell i am guilty of it myself but not near the level many others are.
I rest my case. Me, oldschool, and Francis are all in complete agreement on a subject. Never saw this one coming!
“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”
I'd agree with the maturity comments. It doesn't help that kids (high school seniors and younger) are fully aware how common it is now for "kids" to live with their parents until they're 30 or whatever. It's hard to push the virtues of maturing on to an 18 year old kid who knows he/she may not live on his/her own until in their 30s.
Any new info on the situation at UC David?
One of the loose 'rules' of history is that it's really difficult to assess social groups in the present day. Think about how the view of baby boomers has changed over ~30 years. People are just now figuring out my own Gen X and its role in contemporary American life. I agree with a number of these observations for good and ill but I think we just won't know for a while.
Really interesting, though
Baby Boomer here. We smoked pot, drank beer did LSD, experienced Kent State and our MO was make love not war. I don't look down at any generation as everyone has to grow up and some later than others.
Because of that experience, our kids had LOTS of restrictions.
All of our peers are professionals, doctors, lawyers, engineers.
Whoa, TPM, you run with quite a crowd!
@TPM posted:Baby Boomer here. We smoked pot, drank beer did LSD, experienced Kent State and our MO was make love not war. I don't look down at any generation as everyone has to grow up and some later than others.
Because of that experience, our kids had LOTS of restrictions.
All of our peers are professionals, doctors, lawyers, engineers.
I've heard that Gen X had a good psychedelic game. Just rumors, to be clear.
@TPM posted:Baby Boomer here. We smoked pot, drank beer did LSD, experienced Kent State and our MO was make love not war. I don't look down at any generation as everyone has to grow up and some later than others.
Because of that experience, our kids had LOTS of restrictions.
All of our peers are professionals, doctors, lawyers, engineers.
Party at TPM’s tonight. BYOLSD!
I’ll be the guy in a back corner of the room, lurking in the shadows, staunchly avoiding breaking any drug laws, while secretly wanting to try everything in sight.
@TPM posted:Nah, my daughter was GenX, no psychedelic stuff.
By the way, when I said WE, I meant my generation, but you all thought I meant ME....lol.
🤣
We knew what you meant. It’s all in good fun. But when you tee it up like that a few of us are gonna take a swing!
@Francis7 posted:The one thing that I do believe is true is that MOST (but not all!) are younger today maturity wise than previous generations.
I am not sure I agree. Are you talking males or females? Most 18-22, that I know, are pretty mature. Many work and go to college at the same time. Then when they are ready to put their degree to use, they have had some experience in the real world.
JMO
@TPM posted:I am not sure I agree. Are you talking males or females? Most 18-22, that I know, are pretty mature. Many work and go to college at the same time. Then when they are ready to put their degree to use, they have had some experience in the real world.
JMO
Both genders. Again - not saying all, but most.
@LousyLefty posted:You just provided evidence MidAtlanticDad observation about Gen Z is correct. No need to call someone pathetic. It does nothing to persuade anyone and it’s not kind. A comment like that isn’t what this board is about.
I didn't call him pathetic. Implied he was if he thinks this generation of college students are all the things he finds them to be.
@MidAtlanticDad posted:I guess I’m just lucky, but the young people I know who have graduated college in the past 10 years (and those who haven’t) are far and away much better people and citizens than my generation (low bar?). They’re smarter, more resourceful, more adaptable, more thoughtful, better parents, and much kinder… much much kinder.
To circle back . I'd assume you feel this way because you agree with the students on campus who feel the need for safe spaces? Who riot when a university decides to allow a speaker on campus who might have an unpopular point of view? When asked to express a view point of this country it's one of distain and competent.
I have a son on campus and he feels intimated to express his feelings in the classroom because of the pushback he'll get from his fellow students and professors.
So much kinder .......
@adbono posted:Usually when threads swerve off topic it degenerates into negativity, politics, or silliness. IMO this one has done the opposite. It has actually gotten way better. How refreshing!
Wasn't it nice?
@SomeBaseballDad posted:To circle back . I'd assume you feel this way because you agree with the students on campus who feel the need for safe spaces? Who riot when a university decides to allow a speaker on campus who might have an unpopular point of view? When asked to express a view point of this country it's one of distain and competent.
I have a son on campus and he feels intimated to express his feelings in the classroom because of the pushback he'll get from his fellow students and professors.
So much kinder .......
College campuses in 2021 are only kinder for liberal progressive ideas. If you dare take stance against academia you will attached, ridiculed and eliminated. The Gestapo was sympathetic compared to our current administrations.
@old_school posted:College campuses in 2021 are only kinder for liberal progressive ideas. If you dare take stance against academia you will attached, ridiculed and eliminated. The Gestapo was sympathetic compared to our current administrations.
I’m so glad that my 2 kids that went away for college were in Oklahoma and didn’t experience this. My son that stayed here and went to UT Dallas did experience it and it was brutal. Since is a kid that’s not bashful about speaking his mind (no idea where he gets that) it made fora miserable existence for him and he left.
So, let me ask you something. We live in a capitalist society. If so many people are unhappy about the things you guys allege, why are there not colleges at which these terrible things don't happen? And, why don't people go to colleges that fit their social, political, cultural needs? It's hardly a secret what these colleges are like - why did your sons go there? It's a marketplace - are you saying the liberal schools have the best baseball opportunities? So, you made a choice based on one factor and not another. Stop whining about it.
It would be really interesting to know what happened at UC Davis, though.
@anotherparent posted:So, let me ask you something. We live in a capitalist society. If so many people are unhappy about the things you guys allege, why are there not colleges at which these terrible things don't happen? And, why don't people go to colleges that fit their social, political, cultural needs? It's hardly a secret what these colleges are like - why did your sons go there? It's a marketplace - are you saying the liberal schools have the best baseball opportunities? So, you made a choice based on one factor and not another. Stop whining about it.
It would be really interesting to know what happened at UC Davis, though.
Okay, I’m gonna answer this plain and simple as it relates to my son. I’m not qualified to speak about other people’s experiences, and neither are you for that matter. In 2015 nobody had gone woke and even though I live less than a mile from the UTD campus it was not well known to me (or my friends) that the campus was as liberal as it is - especially since it’s located in an area that was still very conservative in 2015. UTD also has a highly respected business school that accepted my son, so the combination of that education plus good D3 baseball seemed like a good fit. It was a shock to his system to hear fellow students stand up in class and spout off radical ideologies as if it was the gospel - without tolerating a dissenting point of view I might add. In hindsight, we made a bad choice but at the time we didn’t know that. We would do things differently given the chance to roll back time. An awful lot has changed in the past 6 years. As for your comment about whining, I will give you one guess where you can stick that!
Btw, I clearly stated that my other 2 sons that went to college in Oklahoma didn’t experience having liberal ideologies crammed down their throats. So there are plenty of schools where it doesn’t happen. Just not as many as there used to be.
@adbono posted:We would do things differently given the chance to roll back time.
Based on posts on this site, I would suggest that that is true of many college baseball players. Don't we always say on here, "do your research"? Applies to more than the baseball team.
@adbono posted:As for your comment about whining, I will give you one guess where you can stick that!
I'd only suggest that both sides seem to need safe spaces these days. Often heard on this site: "you don't have to like the coach, you have to make the coach like you", "if your coach is unfair you have to make your performance so good that he has to put you in the lineup", etc.
Imagine if HSBBW were like most college campuses. Only one side of the narrative was considered scripture and dissenting views were pummeled into silence. Thankfully, we have many adults who contribute to the dialogue here on HSBBW. Even when we disagree here, I see most of us here being okay with it. Agreeing to disagree and forming our own conclusions. So that begs the question - why don't we demand the same from everyone educating our children? Isn't what's good for the goose, also good for the gander?
Reading the viewpoints here that are often 180 degrees out of phase with what another person is saying, is arguably my favorite part of HSBBW. Being successful in recruiting often requires thinking outside of the box. Challenging what you "know." I've said it here before, but I'll say it again. The best thing a parent/player can do in recruiting process is to start listening to those with the message that is TOUGHEST to hear and not those who deliver messages that they like hearing. Now imagine applying that concept on a college campus. Whoa. I think I just blew my own mind.
@anotherparent posted:Based on posts on this site, I would suggest that that is true of many college baseball players. Don't we always say on here, "do your research"? Applies to more than the baseball team.
I'd only suggest that both sides seem to need safe spaces these days. Often heard on this site: "you don't have to like the coach, you have to make the coach like you", "if your coach is unfair you have to make your performance so good that he has to put you in the lineup", etc.
All I’m going to say is that there have been much greater changes in the social environment on college campuses in the past 10-15 years than there have been in the way HS and college baseball programs are run. Comparing the two is complete nonsense.
My son attended a university in a solid red state. It didn’t change most of the professors were deep blue.
Freshman year in Intro to American Politics the professor told the class if anyone blames the troubles of the world on Ronald Reagan they will flunk his class. Besides, Reagan hadn’t been president for twenty-four years. My son was relieved by the open mindedness.
One of the first assignments was to write a paper on Occupy. Most of the class just ripped off their opinions on paper. My son went and interviewed people sitting in at Occupy. He wrote about the interviews, the grievances and where he felt there was reason for argument and protest. But he netted out his paper with the best avenue to personal success is individual responsibility and accountability.
He got a D on his paper. What he didn’t understand early in freshman year is professors don’t grade papers. TA’s grade papers. I told him it was likely some tree bark eating, 5’7 130, long hair with a pony tail and John Lennon glasses who graded his paper and detested the personal responsibility and accountability comment. He’s likely a communist into collectivism. Turned out I was right. He complained to the professor. His grade was changed to an A.
When I was in college in the 70’s every single Poly Sci professor I had was a socialist. As long as you wrote what they wanted to hear every class was an easy A. I took as many Poly ScI courses as I could for electives.
I majored in Economics. All the theory professors were socialists. Since my concentration was Quantitative Methodology (now called Analytics) at least math wasn’t political. However, I’ve recently read math is white supremacy racism (eyes rolling as almost all Asian kids ace math classes).
There are very few campuses in the country now where open speech isn’t all liberal. And anti Semitism is way up. It’s an in thing on campuses to denounce Jews and Israel. It’s led by Arab students and followed by liberal lemmings who can’t think for themselves.
I recently had a conversation (heated on her side, calm from me) about Israel. What this person had been taught in college was so one sided it was ridiculous. What she actually knew would fill a thimble. What she didn’t know would fill buckets. But regardless American Jews should not be getting shouted down and physically attacked on college campuses for what’s going on in Israel.
Note: This person led the protest against Wilson’s Bakery in Oberlin OH. The university now owes the Wilson family 44M* in damages. It’s not racism to tackle a black student who is stealing liquor as he runs out the door (since pleaded guilty of theft and assaulting the store owner with three others). He’s just a person stealing regardless of color.
* being appealed since amount exceeds state law
@anotherparent posted:I'd only suggest that both sides seem to need safe spaces these days.
Yep.
And this place is so safe that a user can post this and nobody bats an eye.
College campuses in 2021 are only kinder for liberal progressive ideas. If you dare take stance against academia you will attached, ridiculed and eliminated. The Gestapo was sympathetic compared to our current administrations.
I'm not going to waste my time or the board's by disputing that or any of the other whining going on here (I'm not saying the shoe fits you, Adbono but you might try it on) but I am going to post the following as a response to this particular statement.
From the website of the US Holocaust Memorial Museum
https://www.ushmm.org/informat...logies-are-dangerous
Edna Friedberg, Ph.D., is a historian in the Museum’s William Levine Family Institute for Holocaust Education.
Nazis seem to be everywhere these days. I don’t mean self-proclaimed neo-Nazis. I’m talking about folks being labeled as Nazis, Hitler, Gestapo, Goering — take your pick — by their political opponents. American politicians from across the ideological spectrum, influential media figures, and ordinary people on social media casually use Holocaust terminology to bash anyone or any policy with which they disagree. The takedown is so common that it’s even earned its own term, reductio ad Hitlerum.
This trend is far from new, but it is escalating at a disturbing rate in increasingly polarized times. The Holocaust has become shorthand for good vs. evil; it is the epithet to end all epithets. And the current environment of rapid fire online communication and viral memes lends itself particularly well to this sort of sloppy analogizing. Worse, it allows it to spread more widely and quickly.
This oversimplified approach to complex history is dangerous. When conducted with integrity and rigor, the study of history raises more questions than answers. And as the most extensively documented crime the world has ever seen, the Holocaust offers an unmatched case study in how societies fall apart, in the immutability of human nature, in the dangers of unchecked state power. It is more than European or Jewish history. It is human history. Almost 40 years ago, the United States Congress chartered a Holocaust memorial on the National Mall for precisely this reason: The questions raised by the Holocaust transcend all divides.
Neither the political right nor left has a monopoly on exploiting the six million Jews murdered in a state-sponsored, systematic campaign of genocide to demonize or intimidate their political opponents. Recently, some conservative media figures explicitly likened Parkland, FL students advocating for tightened gun control to Hitler Youth, operating in the service of a shadowy authoritarian conspiracy. This allegation included splicing images of these students onto historical film footage of Nazi rallies, reflecting the ease with which many Americans associate the sound of German shouting with a threat to personal liberties. A state representative in Minnesota joined the online bandwagon in these accusations.
Perhaps most popular this year have been accusations of “Nazism” and “fascism” against federal authorities for their treatment of children separated from their parents at the US border with Mexico. “Remember, other governments put kids in camps,” is a typical rallying cry from some immigration advocates. Even a person as well versed in the tenuous balance between national security and compassion, the former head of the CIA, took to Twitter to criticize federal policies toward illegal migrants using a black and white photo of the iconic train tracks leading the Auschwitz-Birkenau killing center. Nazi comparisons have also been leveled against the federal government in connection with a travel ban on individuals from predominantly Muslim countries. Animal rights proponents have consistently decried what they call “the Holocaust on your plate” in critiquing today’s meat industry. The list goes on.
It is all too easy to forget that there are many people still alive for whom the Holocaust is not “history,” but their life story and that of their families. These are not abstract tragedies on call to win an argument or an election. They carry the painful memories of the brutal murder of a cherished baby boy, the rape of a beloved sister, the parents arrested and never seen again.
As the Holocaust recedes in time, some Americans (and Europeans) are becoming increasingly casual and disrespectful to the mass murder of millions. More dangerous, today the internet disseminates insensitive or hateful remarks with unprecedented ease and influence. Online discussions tend to encourage extreme opinions; they allow people to live in echo chambers of their own ideologies and peers. Weimar Germany — the period between the First World War and the Nazi rise to power — is an exemplar of the threats that emerge when the political center fails to hold, when social trust is allowed to erode and the fissures exploited.
Quality Holocaust education may have the potential to bridge some of the divides our nation is experiencing. It enables people to pause. To step away from the problems and debates of the present. To be challenged by this catastrophic event of the past. That is what good history education does. It doesn’t preach. It teaches. It engages at a personal level. It promotes self-reflection and critical thinking about the world and one’s own roles and responsibilities. That engagement is lost when we resort to grossly simplified Holocaust analogies. And it demeans the memory of the dead.
Writing in 1953, the British novelist L.P. Hartley said “The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.” Comparing and categorizing are natural human impulses. We all use categories and analogies to navigate through life. But the nature of Nazi crimes demands that we study the evidence, alert ourselves to warning signs, wrestle with the world’s moral failure. When we reduce it to a flattened morality tale, we forfeit the chance to learn from its horrific specificity. We lose sight of the ordinary human choices that made genocide possible.
Careless Holocaust analogies may demonize, demean, and intimidate their targets. But there is a cost for all of us because they distract from the real issues challenging our society, because they shut down productive, thoughtful discourse. At a time when our country needs dialogue more than ever, it is especially dangerous to exploit the memory of the Holocaust as a rhetorical cudgel. We owe the survivors more than that. And we owe ourselves more than that.
Holy wall of text....i am gonna pass on reading that and just assume that you disagree with adbono...which makes the wall of text not worth reading anyway.
It is funny that anyone could think our university system isn't mind blowing liberal. I mean even the freakin administrations believe they are liberal, proud of it and want to take it further....it is laughable that this is a debate. Almost as stupid as arguing over if illegal immigrants are illegal - an argument that also actually happens!!
The world is truly a crazy place.
@DanJ posted:Imagine if HSBBW were like most college campuses. Only one side of the narrative was considered scripture and dissenting views were pummeled into silence. Thankfully, we have many adults who contribute to the dialogue here on HSBBW. Even when we disagree here, I see most of us here being okay with it. Agreeing to disagree and forming our own conclusions. So that begs the question - why don't we demand the same from everyone educating our children? Isn't what's good for the goose, also good for the gander?
Reading the viewpoints here that are often 180 degrees out of phase with what another person is saying, is arguably my favorite part of HSBBW. Being successful in recruiting often requires thinking outside of the box. Challenging what you "know." I've said it here before, but I'll say it again. The best thing a parent/player can do in recruiting process is to start listening to those with the message that is TOUGHEST to hear and not those who deliver messages that they like hearing. Now imagine applying that concept on a college campus. Whoa. I think I just blew my own mind.
If HSBBW was a college it would cease to exist, I do agree with you it makes this a great site. Part of the deal is that you have deal with the other side...something not tolerated on campus.
The majority of our universities have a liberal bias. That just a fact and I’m entitled to my opinion about that. Whether anyone else likes my opinion or agrees with it is none of my concern. But to try to associate me with the greatest crimes against humanity in the history of the world, just because you don’t agree with my opinion (about a fact) is insanity. It’s unbelievable how any rational person could even go there.
@adbono posted:The majority of our universities have a liberal bias. That just a fact and I’m entitled to my opinion about that. Whether anyone else likes my opinion or agrees with it is none of my concern. But to try to associate me with the greatest crimes against humanity in the history of the world, just because you don’t agree with my opinion (about a fact) is insanity. It’s unbelievable how any rational person could even go there.
I have no idea why you are making that accusation, but I'll assume it's an honest error.
I did not and would not do that, Adbono. Reread my post. And reread Old School's.
@JCG posted:I have no idea why you are making that accusation, but I'll assume it's an honest error.
I did not and would not do that, Adbono. Reread my post. And reread Old School's.
I will do that. But not now
The words “racism” and “Nazi” and/or associated words have come to be used far too often in public discourse as a personal attack to mean I vehemently disagree with you. Politicians have also been guilty. These are words that really mean something. They shouldn’t be used so liberally they can be shrugged off as having little or no meaning.
I’ve been called a racist frequently enough for being a right leaning libertarian who supports far more right leaning stances than I disagree. Whenever I hear “racist” now my first response is, “Whatever!” I know I’m not. A racist wouldn’t make his charitable focus helping underprivileged inner city kids.
What is sad is two-thirds of Millennials have never heard of Auschwitz. What the hell are they being taught in history class? My relatives came to the US in the 19th century from Russia. They weren’t part of Auschwitz or other concentration camps. But I’ve been there. It’s the emptiest feeling you could possibly have as a tourist.
@RJM posted:The words “racism” and “Nazi” and/or associated words have come to be used far too often in public discourse as a personal attack to mean I vehemently disagree with you. Politicians have also been guilty. These are words that really mean something. They shouldn’t be used so liberally they can be shrugged off as having little or no meaning.
I’ve been called a racist frequently enough for being a right leaning libertarian who supports far more right leaning stances than I disagree. Whenever I hear “racist” now my first response is, “Whatever!” I know I’m not. I racist wouldn’t make his charitable focus helping underprivileged inner city kids.
What is sad is two-thirds of Millennials have never heard of Auschwitz. What the hell are they being taught in history class? My relatives came to the US in the 19th century from Russia. They weren’t part of Auschwitz or other concentration camps. But I’ve been there. It’s the emptiest feeling you could possibly have as a tourist.
You are probably right on this. In fairness it was a comparison to compassion not calling a name. I do think that is something of a difference but I stand corrected.
@JCG posted:I have no idea why you are making that accusation, but I'll assume it's an honest error.
I did not and would not do that, Adbono. Reread my post. And reread Old School's.
I have reread your post. You quoted something that I didn’t say (which included a heinous reference) and then said “I’m not saying the shoe fits you adbono, but you might want to try it on.” To me that infers that my ideology aligns with the statement you quoted before your remarks to me. Which couldn’t be farther from the truth. So my response was not an honest mistake. My response is how dare you make such a reference?!? Old School was good enough to acknowledge a lapse in judgment. That seems appropriate for you too.
@adbono posted:I have reread your post. You quoted something that I didn’t say (which included a heinous reference) and then said “I’m not saying the shoe fits you adbono, but you might want to try it on.” To me that infers that my ideology aligns with the statement you quoted before your remarks to me. Which couldn’t be farther from the truth. So my response was not an honest mistake. My response is how dare you make such a reference?!? Old School was good enough to acknowledge a lapse in judgment. That seems appropriate for you too.
No.
Here's what I said, in a new paragraph after the OS Gestapo quote:
"I'm not going to waste my time or the board's by disputing that or any of the other whining going on here (I'm not saying the shoe fits you, Adbono but you might try it on) but I am going to post the following as a response to this particular statement."
The parenthetical mentioning you was a reference to your strenuous objection to being called a whiner by Anotherparent, who I was replying to. If you want me to acknowledge a lapse in judgement for implying that you're a whiner, fine, but, again, I did not imply what you inferred. I will also acknowledge that I should have @'ed Old School before the quote for clarity.
By the way, it's interesting that you now find Old School's Gestapo statement to be so objectional, and yet you didn't seem to have any problem at all with it when you quoted him yourself earlier in the thread.
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I don’t comment on everything that’s posted on here that I don’t like. Again you are making assumptions. What I did do was relate to the board an experience that my son had at UTD. And that generated snide comments from anotherparent (as it hit too close to home) and piling on from you along with a history lesson that wasn’t relevant to the conversation. Great stuff!
@adbono posted:I don’t comment on everything that’s posted on here that I don’t like. Again you are making assumptions. What I did do was relate to the board an experience that my son had at UTD. And that generated snide comments from anotherparent (as it hit too close to home) and piling on from you along with a history lesson that wasn’t relevant to the conversation. Great stuff!
Well, I'm sorry for what I did imply, but not what I didn't. And I do appreciate the value you bring to the site.
BTW was your son on the roster at UTD in 2018? If so, our sons have played against each other. Just looked it up. Mine had a pretty good game.
@SomeBaseballDad posted:To circle back . I'd assume you feel this way because you agree with the students on campus who feel the need for safe spaces? Who riot when a university decides to allow a speaker on campus who might have an unpopular point of view? When asked to express a view point of this country it's one of distain and competent.
I have a son on campus and he feels intimated to express his feelings in the classroom because of the pushback he'll get from his fellow students and professors.
So much kinder .......
I'm someone you might describe as a liberal. Safe spaces are dumb, and I'm a big fan of the Pres of UofChicago on this issue. However, the notion that the desire for safe spaces is unique to the left is demonstrably incorrect. It's an American problem, not a problem of the left or right.
@JCG posted:Well, I'm sorry for what I did imply, but not what I didn't. And I do appreciate the value you bring to the site.
BTW was your son on the roster at UTD in 2018? If so, our sons have played against each other. Just looked it up. Mine had a pretty good game.
Appreciate the olive branch of sorts. My son had an arm injury fall of 2015 and rehabbed spring of 2016. He didn’t go back after that year so he never appeared on a spring roster.
@adbono posted:The majority of our universities have a liberal bias. That just a fact and I’m entitled to my opinion about that. Whether anyone else likes my opinion or agrees with it is none of my concern. But to try to associate me with the greatest crimes against humanity in the history of the world, just because you don’t agree with my opinion (about a fact) is insanity. It’s unbelievable how any rational person could even go there.
That's just funny.
@Iowamom23 posted:That's just funny.
From a wording standpoint it’s a blooper. On intent I agree with him.
@Iowamom23 posted:That's just funny.
Yes, it was very poorly worded on my part. But I’m glad that you found it amusing and thank you so much for pointing it out!
Look, my comment was simply that people come on this site all the time, saying that the coach doesn't like their son, it's all politics, and what should he do? The advice for baseball seems to be, stop whining, put your head down, and be the best baseball player you can be. Why would it be different with academics? I'm pretty sure we've also seen people saying that the teammates don't like my son... How is that different from not liking other students?
"Safe spaces" are for people who don't like what other people are saying. The concept is silly, but the term is way over-used.
@anotherparent posted:Look, my comment was simply that people come on this site all the time, saying that the coach doesn't like their son, it's all politics, and what should he do? The advice for baseball seems to be, stop whining, put your head down, and be the best baseball player you can be. Why would it be different with academics? I'm pretty sure we've also seen people saying that the teammates don't like my son... How is that different from not liking other students?
"Safe spaces" are for people who don't like what other people are saying. The concept is silly, but the term is way over-used.
Oh, I know exactly what the point of your comment was - and it wasn’t for the benefit of anyone else on this board.
Politics on campus hasn’t changed much from when I went (70’s) and my kids went (10’s). I advised my kids to do what I did. Give the liberal professors what they want. Then walk away laughing with your A knowing they could never survive the real world.
I asked my kids what they learned in high school and undergrad college that’s actually useful today. My son responded, the business finance teacher in high school who taught him how to play the stock market. My daughter said her high school science classes helped get her through her college science classes. But they have nothing to do with her career as a lawyer. She was the only forensic science graduate in her law school.
In most every aspect of life there are balances. You have to defend your beliefs. Not the case in college. There is one side and it’s easier to pretend to believe it and take your A, because they will not give you the A if you disagree. It’s lazy of the professors and it’s not education. No amount of research is going to put you at a balanced school. There aren’t enough of them. We paid 65k a year to send our kids to a private school that by all accounts should be AT LEAST balanced, yet we have tons of very outspoken, liberal professors. The parent page is absolutely full of parents that are p*ssed off that our kids have to play dumb and get the easy A because the professors can’t be challenged. EVERYONE should want logical debate. That is learning. That is education. Silencing a side you don’t agree with is lazy and the reason we are having the issue with ego centric kids. Most never have to, or never get to, defend their position. My son actually had a professor put on a test, Katrina is an example of: (answer: a racist storm). He said he just had to laugh. Colleges will be obsolete soon. People are going to get tired of sending their kids off to dumb them down with someone’s misguided agenda. The bias is blatant and if you don’t see it, you are wearing blinders.
My daughter was shocked when she was named the Editor of the Law Review at her very liberal college. She was also a member of the Young Republicans.
@RJM posted:My daughter was shocked when she was named the Editor of the Law Review at her very liberal college. She was also a member of the Young Republicans.
That is awesome.