under funded programs

Someone posted this link a few months ago that is fantastic resource for researching programs.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Search.asp

I think it is listed somewhere in golden threads but I had it booked marked.

Should help.

Coach Merc posted that link on September 21, 2006. It is in the RECRUITING forum and in fact, it has been permanently pinned as the top thread titled "Fully funded program vs partial".

The website by the Department of Education is the greatest website ever (in my opinion) for any potential college athlete. I am grateful to Beezer for asking the question and for Coach Merc for posting the link.

I'm not sure I follow you, Ryno.

Lots of schools have less than the maximum allotment of scholarship money. They still need to recruit players. They try to sell whatever their strengths are to get the kids they need. Nothing wrong with that.

How do you protect your kid? Hey, nobody's holding a gun to your head. If you don't get the offer you want, keep looking.

As for roster spots, if someone offers you a guarantee, end the meeting. They are probably lying to you.

quote:

Originally posted by RYNO:
Has anyone had a situation were a school is under funded and has no monies available and yet is recruiting? How does one protect the interest of their son. And how can a college guarantee a roster spot to a student athlete with out the grant in aid?

I don't follow you either. No one has to give anything, but if they want to, it has to be minimum 25%.
Midloddad is correct, if no one is offering what you and your son want and need, then walk away. And don't have anyone promise you a spot other than on the 35.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:

As for roster spots, if someone offers you a guarantee, end the meeting. They are probably lying to you.

Midlo,
Can I assume you mean playing time and not roster spot? I know a couple of schools that we visited, including West Point, that told us they have never cut a recruited athlete.

Ryno, I'm going to assume that you and your son are interested in this school, but it does not have any monies available due to underfunding. You may not be interested in walking away, but instead want to know how to gauge the commitment of the program to him.

I would think this situation would be similar to an offer from a D3, which cannot offer money. You'll want to ask lots of questions (do you ever cut players, how many do you typically have on your roster, how does my son compare to others in his position at your school when they were being recruited, etc.). You'll also want to ask others about the coaches (are they men of their word, does what they're telling you sound correct, can you trust them, etc.). The answers you get will help you make a well-informed decision.

Btw, the link lists colleges' operating costs (travel costs, equipment, etc.), not whether they are fully funded for scholarships. However, it can be helpful to look up specific schools. If their cost per player is low compared to other schools, they probably are underfunded.

MIDLO DAD and TPM the question was how has others handled this situation. No one is promising playing time. Is there a way other then a coaches word to guarantee a roster spot? That's is the question they have no additional funds available for next 2 years from a very small pool of money.
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Quote Infield 08
I would think this situation would be similar to an offer from a D3, which cannot offer money. You'll want to ask lots of questions (do you ever cut players, how many do you typically have on your roster, how does my son compare to others in his position at your school when they were being recruited, etc.). You'll also want to ask others about the coaches (are they men of their word, does what they're telling you sound correct, can you trust them, etc.). The answers you get will help you make a well-informed decision.
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Thank you that is exactly what I am asking and when that particular coach calls this week we'll address those questions. The school is on our sons short list and he has visited school, toured campus and spoke with all coaches.

But I have heard some horror stories and don't wish this to happen if there is a way around it.

RYNO, there isn't a way around it.
The focus, and I think this is what you are really saying, is to minimize the risk of a bad decision and maximizing the chances for your son.
My view is different, in a way, from the advice already given.
There are two main elements in your situation.
The first would be to determine how well these coaches know your son, how well they know his skills and talents as a player, and based on that, how well are they able to explain how he could fit in their program, where do they see him over time, and how will they help him during the season and in the summer.
If the coaches have not seen your son play, and probably more than once, do they truly know his skills so that the things they say are worthwhile? If they know his skills first hand, what they say is far more credible.
The other main element is how well does your son know the program and coaches, how confident does he feel he can play at that level, how confident does he feel he can do the classroom work, the strength and conditioning work, and how well does he know the team in terms of it being a good "fit" for him.
Baseball recruiting is a strange experience. Everyone looks at it with optimism and rose colored glasses.
To have the sense of confidence that your seem to want, I think it is important to emphasize the words are meaningful to the extent the coaches have personal knowledge of your son combined with your personal knowledge of the program, competition and coaches.
With that said, while you do need to do your homework, you also need to know there are coaches who will be very honest and follow through in every way, if your son does his part and has the talent they project.

All BB programs are under funded. Even if they fund 11.7 rides. Players not being offerred money is more the norm since most buy pitchers and hard hitter 1st.
There is only 1 way to protect your son and that is by him being better that anyone else in front of him. A BB scholarship helps but he still has to perform in the eyes of the coach. Always a lot of risk and no gaurentees.

Let me throw another wrinkle in here, which may or may not help you.

When the new rules came out the underfunded programs were very concerned about the disproportionate impact it would have on them. For example, if a school only funded 4 scholarships, and had to give each player 25%, they could only give money to 16 kids. However, my recollection is that the NCAA said such schools could count academic aid the kids receive as part of the 25%, which would allow them to spread their athletic money out a lot more. Of course they would need to recruit academically oriented kids.

Basically, as I understand it, the kid must get a 25% "package." It does not have to be 25% athletic. It could be 5% athletic and 20% academic.

If the school in question has ANY money, AND your son qualifies for enough academic money to bring the total to 25%, he could sign an NLI, which would make him a counter, and automatically part of the 35 man squad list. (This is assuming the school has not obligated itself to 30 other kids).

Otherwise, infielddad has really hit the nail on the head. You're basically looking at a leap of faith. All you can do is make sure it is an educated leap, and hope for the best.

quote:

However, my recollection is that the NCAA said such schools could count academic aid the kids receive as part of the 25%, which would allow them to spread their athletic money out a lot more. Of course they would need to recruit academically oriented kids.

Bingo...this may be the first time someone on here has gotten the point of this rule change. For partially funded programs (i.e. less than 11.7 scholies ) they can use any "countable" aid in the calculation of the 25% minimum. In other words, if you qualify for academic money at less than the NCAA requirement for blended money (i.e. less than 3.5 GPA)the school can use this in the 25% figure.
It actually could potentially help some players who would not get the 25% minimum otherwise.

CPLZ,

I stand corrected, with an asterisk.

For the most part, yes I should have referred to playing time and not a roster spot. But even then there are exceptions.

Things happen year to year and relationships change. I know one very high profile program who had one very high profile freshman (two years ago)and they just didn't see eye to eye. He transferred to another high profile school, excelled there and is currently high on the prognosticators' draft lists that I've seen (now a college junior). This is a guy who was basically told to look elsewhere.

Another point: I got my Baseball America today and it indicated that approx. half of all D-1 programs fund less than the full 11.7 allotment. So it's not at all unusual for D-1's to be recruiting in that environment. It's not an exception to the norm; underfunded programs are just as common as fully funded ones. Though obviously it's tougher to compete with the handicap, some do better than others.

quote:

Originally posted by rbinaz:

quote:

However, my recollection is that the NCAA said such schools could count academic aid the kids receive as part of the 25%, which would allow them to spread their athletic money out a lot more. Of course they would need to recruit academically oriented kids.

Bingo...this may be the first time someone on here has gotten the point of this rule change. For partially funded programs (i.e. less than 11.7 scholies ) they can use any "countable" aid in the calculation of the 25% minimum. In other words, if you qualify for academic money at less than the NCAA requirement for blended money (i.e. less than 3.5 GPA)the school can use this in the 25% figure.
It actually could potentially help some players who would not get the 25% minimum otherwise.

I'm such a slow learner-

In other words, if you qualify for academic money at less than the NCAA requirement for blended money (i.e. less than 3.5 GPA)the school can use this in the 25% figure.

So what if you have a 3.5 plus?

quote:

Originally posted by thats-a-balk!:

I'm such a slow learner-

In other words, if you qualify for academic money at less than the NCAA requirement for blended money (i.e. less than 3.5 GPA)the school can use this in the 25% figure.

So what if you have a 3.5 plus?

The 3.5 GPA threshold is an indicator of whether academic aid will be counted against the total baseball scholarship pool of 11.7, or whether it will count as academic aid only and not affect the available 11.7 baseball scholarships.

In short, if Junior is under 3.5, and gets a 25% baseball scholarship and 25% academic scholarship, the total 50% gets counted against a baseball scholarship, even though 25% of it came academically. If Junior is 3.5 or over, under the same circumstances, only 25% gets counted towards baseball scholarship and the other 25% isn't.

It's a way for the NCAA to make sure the coaches aren't playing fast and loose with academic scholarships to players who aren't deserving of them.

If Junior is under 3.5, the coach may not allow him to take the academic money above the %25 because it would be counted against his 11.7 scholarship pool.

Thanks CPLZ,

That explains perfectly!

You're welcome.

Also understand that GPA is not the only criteria. If Junior has any of the following, 3.5 GPA, top 10% of his class, 105 cumulitive ACT, or (I may be wrong on this particular number) 1200 SAT, then he qualifies for academic aid not being counted against baseball scholarships. He only has to qualify on one of those to make him eligible.

If he qualifies in any category, he has upped his stock as a recruit with any baseball program.

CPLZ- you are correct-it is 1200 SAT 1

quote:

Originally posted by play baseball:
I am grateful to Beezer for asking the question and.....

Hey, hey Beezer! I haven't seen ya' in ages. How ya' feelin'? You're lookin' a little jaundiced under that fedora...ya' gettin' 'nuf sunshine?

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
Hey, hey Beezer! I haven't seen ya' in ages. How ya' feelin'? You're lookin' a little jaundiced under that fedora...ya' gettin' 'nuf sunshine?

Woodrow!!! Ma main man! I'm currently in Tokyo but flying back in the morning after a week of pretty good meetings. Lil Beezer is working hard and getting ready for his first '08 tourney down in Fla in a few weeks. How's the fam doin?

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Flying back in the morning Beez?

That's good news all right.

I want you flying in the back...where you can get plenty of sunshine and chase that jaundice away!


You're looking good back there Beez...is that Tokyo to Cleveland flight two or three days long?



And the family is doing reasonably well...thanks!


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quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
is that Tokyo to Cleveland flight two or three days long?

It certainly feels like it!!!! It's ONLY 11 1/2 hours coming back (14 hrs there). It's weird to take a nice relatively long nap, wake up, look at your watch and think "Great, only 9 hours to go!!"

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A little advice for you Beez...get yourself a good book to read on those long. long flights. May I suggest...




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