@JCG posted:I have not thought this though as completely as you but I think for the first couple of rounds at least, slot money should be be non-negotiable. The whole business of squeezing college seniors and using the money to pay down-draft HS players is BS. OTOH, what you describe Boras and Kumar possibly doing is BS too.
Don't disagree. Either way, rather unfortunate for the kid
@Smitty28 posted:I think Bregman and Correa worked out pretty well. Better than most other teams' draft picks.
What do Bregman and Correa have to do with the 2014 Astros draft and the fortunate whiffing on Aiken, Nix and Marshall? Correa was drafted in 2012. Bergman was drafted in 2015.
@JCG posted:I have not thought this though as completely as you but I think for the first couple of rounds at least, slot money should be be non-negotiable. The whole business of squeezing college seniors and using the money to pay down-draft HS players is BS. OTOH, what you describe Boras and Kumar possibly doing is BS too.
Definitely agree with the bold above. 
@RJM posted:What do Bregman and Correa have to do with the 2014 Astros draft and the fortunate whiffing on Aiken, Nix and Marshall? Correa was drafted in 2012. Bergman was drafted in 2015.
Nothing. What does the 2014 draft have to do with 40+ years of draft history?
@Smitty28 posted:Sure, there are probably lots of ways to solve the problem of competitive balance. The union, however, includes only MLB players. They generally are very protective of their turf (see MiLB player salaries...).
Isn't that how unions normally work?
Note, a person with skills should be able to be go to the employer willing to pay the highest compensation. Why should it be any different than any other business in the United States?
Basically, baseball business model has components of indentured servitude.
@Smitty28 posted:Nothing. What does the 2014 draft have to do with 40+ years of draft history?
Brady Aiken was a pitcher drafted in the first round with arm issues. Rocker is a pitcher drafted in the first round with presumed arm issues. Seems like a connection since both have arm issues and were unsigned. The thread is about Rocker. Aiken was mentioned a couple of posts ahead of mine due to potential similarities.
I am just coming across this topic now, and it led me to a little research on my google machine and this 2018 article from Verducci: https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/11...john-surgery-problem
The '22 draft class is absolutely loaded with high end HS arms, many of them having pitched into the high 90s this past year. But this article certainly raises a red flag for those teams thinking of jumping on one of them. As a father of a pitcher, it would certainly give me pause if I was thinking about the draft vs college. On one hand, you could make the argument that you should jump on the signing bonus out of HS because of the high chance of injury and low chance of MLB success (i.e., make $ off the arm while you can). On the other hand, the way you get considered in the first round out of HS (and get paid) is to increase velocity, which increases the chance of injury. There is also the Rocker fear -- you forego the $ out of HS and go to college, your coach has one motivation - to win games - and over pitches you (we could debate whether this happened with Rocker), and you don't get paid at all. There are risks all over the place, and I think it should all come down to one question for the high end HS pitcher -- what is the value of a college education and experience? This is the "life changing money" question, and it is different for each kid.
There are risks all over the place, and I think it should all come down to one question for the high end HS pitcher -- what is the value of a college education and experience? This is the "life changing money" question, and it is different for each kid.
First, I’ll make it clear education is a high priority in our family. I agree with the concept of what is life changing money. It will vary from player to player. But, a player grabbing the money out of high school does not preclude attending college. For most players it means going back to college after baseball doesn’t work out.
I know a kid who went back to college at 27. He was a top prospect. Injuries took him down in AAA. He was focused. He didn’t see college as a party. He saw it as work. In his thirties he’s a very well compensated Wall Street analyst. Brad Ausmus went to college out of high school and didn’t start his minor league seasons until college was out in May.
@2022NYC posted:How will this be affected when they strike next year?
The union doesn't care because draftees are future and not current union members.
I don't like that MRI program because there is just downside for the players and no upside but draft players essentially have zero leverage and neither the union nor the owners care about making it easier for them.
Personally I think that if a team doesn't even offer the player those 40% they used to offer to keep the pick the player should be a free agent to sign anywhere.
@TPM posted:Boras says Mets reneged. Mets feel Boras misrepresented.
Boras missing a few bucks in the bank, Mets get another pick.
Rocker gets nothing.
For boras this is actually a good thing. He loses a million bucks (if he gets 15% or what) but by demonstrating that he is occasionally willing to walk away from a deal and take nothing he demonstrates the clubs that he is willing to take a zero if his demand is not met. For the individual player it is a big risk but the GMs know Boras won't budge so they usually don't even try to low ball him.
That is the risk players take with Boras, they know most of the time he gets his good deal but there is a small chance as a player you get screwed over.
Boras plays the long game, he can occasionally lose a deal when it strengthens his overall position.
@RJM posted:What do Bregman and Correa have to do with the 2014 Astros draft and the fortunate whiffing on Aiken, Nix and Marshall? Correa was drafted in 2012. Bergman was drafted in 2015.
Below explains exactly how 2014 helped the Astros in 2015. This points out exactly some of the problems with the draft and the teams benefits of not signing players.
Would it be fair to say that Rocker knew he was hurt or his shoulder wasn't right and was misrepresenting/under-representing himself to get paid?
**Much smaller scale: Son signed with Boras and Mets and did MRI , draft physical and was a 5th rounder. Why should Rocker get special treatment when he will get paid much more for his talent?
I would also ask what this situation says about character...everyone hates Boras, i get it...but what does this say about Rocker's character? He elected to not take the MRI and the Mets opted to tell him to hit the road. It's their money until it isn't.
Rocker was supposedly a top 5 pick, dropped into the Mets slot pick.
Slot value was 4.7 million.
Mets thinking they had a gem, who from a eligibility perspective was a Covid Sophomore.
Why did his value drop?
Boras applied some car wax, and was able to get a deal for 6 million.
Mets looked under the hood and saw some issues before completing the deal.
@Shoveit4Ks posted:Would it be fair to say that Rocker knew he was hurt or his shoulder wasn't right and was misrepresenting/under-representing himself to get paid?
**Much smaller scale: Son signed with Boras and Mets and did MRI , draft physical and was a 5th rounder. Why should Rocker get special treatment when he will get paid much more for his talent?
I would also ask what this situation says about character...everyone hates Boras, i get it...but what does this say about Rocker's character? He elected to not take the MRI and the Mets opted to tell him to hit the road. It's their money until it isn't.
I'll be very interested to see what happens with Rocker in the spring. It sure looked like he and Boras blew it. But since the draft, the way that the Mets front office has devolved into an absolute s__t show, I find myself wondering if Boras was right all along and they were wrong. We'll see! And we'll see if any of the Mets FA's choose to return to a team with no GM*, no manager, and a president nobody seems to trust.
I hope the chaos at the top helps create opportunities for your son and that he is healthy and able to capitalize on them.
*I wrote this before looking at The Athletic or MLB.com today. They have a GM now! Seems like a good baseball guy and he's certainly inked some big deals, but obviously the results with the Angels were not great during his tenure. But when all the beautiful girls have shot you down, you need to be grateful when a nice, sensible girl agrees to dance with you.
It has been a s*^+ show for sure.
If rocker is really injured maybe the whole thing depending how damaged he was. If he still could have gotten 3 mil he probably should have taken it but if he would have fallen to the comp round and gotten one mil it probably is worth the risk to come back next year.
So maybe it was just either I get top10 money or I come back next year anyway.
It'll be interesting to see if we ever learn about the extent/accuracy of the concerns about Rocker. Reports I have read pointed to concerns about his elbow. That said, the elbow seems to be less concerning among MLB teams these days. Think back to 2012 when the Nationals drafted Giolito with the first pick knowing he would immediately need TJ. TJ has become so commonplace that some believe the question for every pitcher is when, not if. Shoulder injuries and concerns seem to be more of a red flag. Thoughts on this?
With all this Rocker talk, I can’t but help think about Kevin Able. In 2018 he was the Rocker of College baseball. Over threw in the CWS. But he was dominant!!!
TJ in 2019 and was drafted in this years draft. Round 7. Pretty steep fall from where he was.
@Around_The_Horn posted:With all this Rocker talk, I can’t but help think about Kevin Able. In 2018 he was the Rocker of College baseball. Over threw in the CWS. But he was dominant!!!
TJ in 2019 and was drafted in this years draft. Round 7. Pretty steep fall from where he was.
Abel was Not Draft eligible in 2019 though so it isn't really a good comparison
@Dominik85 posted:Abel was Not Draft eligible in 2019 though so it isn't really a good comparison
No freaking duh!!! I was just saying when ever I think of Rocker I think of Able and how both of their careers have gone from freshman phenom at CWS to where they both are now.
BTW not signing rocker still is very costly for the Mets.
First of all the Mets probably did save at least a million with their other picks to sign rocker. 1 million is about equivalent to a late second rounder and could have been used to sign better 2-9 picks (maybe an extra HS prospect instead of a college senior). Since those guys where already signed when rocker fell through the Mets never get that draft capital back. Of course cohen keeps that money in his private pocket but draft capital is way more valuable that real dollars to teams (estimations are 4-5 times https://blogs.fangraphs.com/an...o-value-draft-picks/)
Apart from wasting that draft capital saved for over slotting rocker they also went from 10th to 11th pick. From a pick alue standpoint that is no big deal but it means their pick is now not protected and they can't sign a guy with a comp pick attached to them without losing that pick. Usually a comp pick is more a late first rounder which hurts too but is not nearly as bad as losing the 11th overall.
That limits their options in the off season albeit they got scherzer who had no pick attached (for big money).
They probably had to pay scherzer the no comp attachment (which rises his value), so overall that decision still probably cost the Mets like 15 million of value (the million not spent in the draft is valued at around 5 million and the no comp attachment probably cost another 7 or 8)
@old_school posted:
Phillies fan … The NL East is ours.
Just like the NFC East, NBA Atlantic and the Metropolitan. Flyers fans are my favorite. They act like 1975 was yesterday. Probably the most delusional fans in sports are those who call Philadelphia sports talk radio to scream, “We’re going all the way, baby!”
Lol you should hear WIP this week after the eagles debacle! That kid from barstool rant is awesome, he is also local D3 baseball player I am told on very good info. Summary he addresses
old school Phillies jersey, puking in an Uber, Ben Simmons in a dumpster, the Marlins getting swept, 4 day old cheese steaks and smoking you buddies butts…in 50 seconds. Quality work
and oh I forgot - muck the fets
The Surgeon General has determined listening to sports talk radio may cause brain damage. I haven’t lived in Philadelphia since my youngest headed for college. But when the Eagles choke or get screwed The Fan is incredibly entertaining.
That said, friends say I do a good “Tony, fihst time, long time from Meffid (Medford MA to normal speaking people) …
Co rah don’t know what he’s do’in. He sucks. I coached LL. I know mo-ah about basebawl than Co rah. He-ahs what the Sawx need ta do.
Never call one of these shows to tell the host (once called Gargano) he’s wrong even if you have proof. You won’t get to finish a sentence. You will be insulted and hung up on. It doesn’t matter if you have facts. The callers job is to make the host look good.
