Unsigned Draft Picks and Problems with the Draft

The club didn’t lose a pick. They lost that player.

“If a team doesn't sign a first or second round pick, they will get to pick at the same slot plus one the following year. For example, if the team with the #5 pick does not sign that player, they would have the #6 pick the following year. The regular draft order would continue around those picks.”

Personally, I believe the pick should slide down the round as a penalty for failure to sign the player.

@PABaseball posted:

A high profile first round pick did not sign this year. I understand the issue. He didn't want his MRI done, the team that drafted him didn't like what they saw on their MRI. I have to imagine there is a better way to go about this so that the player isn't handcuffed to a team that doesn't want him.

I understand the club didn't like what they saw on their MRI, but why draft a guy who refused the MLBs predraft MRI? Isn't that the risk they take when they draft somebody in that position?

Should the MLB require all pertinent medical info and imaging to be done in order to be eligible for a draft slot? Hoping someone who knows more about the draft can shed some light on how this happens. Club loses a pick. Player loses out on millions. Hoping somebody can help me make sense of this.

You are assuming that you know all the details from what you have read and heard.

I agree, Mets should be penalized for not signing the player, not awarded.

@TPM posted:

You are assuming that you know all the details from what you have read and heard.

I agree, Mets should be penalized for not signing the player, not awarded.

Agree on not being awarded another pick next year, i disagree on the penalized...but this is like uncharted territory recently we are on similar pages!!

How will this be affected when they strike next year?

Good question, but I'll bet you a bottle of single malt that it's a lockout, not a strike.

@old_school posted:

Agree on not being awarded another pick next year, i disagree on the penalized...but this is like uncharted territory recently we are on similar pages!!

The question is how much from the initial offer of 6 million did Scott Boras come down?

Most of the 1st round picks signed below their slot value,  the Mets initial were willing to pay Rocker above said slot value because he was listed as a top 5 pick and he was technically a Covid Sophomore.

But did he slip because other teams saw his velocity drop and Boras tried to put lipstick on the proverbial pig.

Attached is the full draft with bonuses, slot value and differentials.

The Mets did not counter. They just walked away.

@PTWood posted:

The Mets did not counter. They just walked away.

Good stuff.

I found this interesting article

https://www.forbes.com/sites/m...-partially-to-blame/

Lots of stories circulating out there as to who is to blame, but the bottom line is who got hurt in this fiasco?

Not the Mets, not Scott Boras.

I find it all very sad for this young man who should have started his pro career weeks ago.

First observation is I hate the Mets, their colors, their chant, their airplane flyover field and everything about them....they can be -0-162 and i am happy.

if I understand the events properly Rocker refuses predraft medical exams, falls in draft but still get picked early due ridiculous amounts of talent, fails physical and the Mets walk away.

The rules in place negotiated by both parties in advance say they get another pick next year if they don't sign him...and there is a thought process that the Mets should be penalized and lose a pick and or acted unethically in some way? I don't get it, they took shot, by the rules and then pulled back to the fall back position. I would say this was logical, thought out and a good plan for the potential upside they stood to receive.

I am on board with the Mets losing their top pick and the entire 2022 draft if possible but i don't know why it makes any sense. I guess if you want to hate the rule fair enough but unfortunately i don't see where the Mets did anything wrong or unethical at all. Rocker gambled and lost for now, the Mets played it smart for the long game, Boras is a scumbag but he will take care of his client (for as long as he thinks there is a future meal ticket) ...seems like much to do about nothing to be honest.

This kind of ties in with the Players Union / MiLB story, nobody cares about you until you hold a Union card and vote.

@TPM posted:

Lots of stories circulating out there as to who is to blame, but the bottom line is who got hurt in this fiasco?

Not the Mets, not Scott Boras.

I find it all very sad for this young man who should have started his pro career weeks ago.

but his shoulder is hurt correct? An injury isnt a matter of fault but at the end of the day he isn't able to produce and his cost is higher then the risk of his healing according to his potential employer... If he had a the pre draft MRI and everyone knew the medicals before the draft then maybe you have a point.

I think it is reasonable to assume that Rocker and his advisors were well aware of how bad it was, they new damn well he was going to plummet in the draft, they he wasn't going accept lower round money. So they took a shot, they got picked high, they hoped to be able to land a big bonus prior to rehab and see what the future holds. It isn't a bad plan they just lost this round of betting.

As they say in Vegas 7 out, new money on the pass line...

How common is it for a pitcher to not submit to the pre draft MRI?  Sure seems like a red flag.

Boras says Mets reneged. Mets feel Boras misrepresented.

Boras missing a few bucks in the bank, Mets get another pick.

Rocker gets nothing. 

@K9 posted:

How common is it for a pitcher to not submit to the pre draft MRI?  Sure seems like a red flag.

The program is voluntary.  This is private and personal medical information, some might not want to give that out. They rely on their agent for best advice. 

100% TPM and old school. TPM on who got hurt the most in this whole thing and old school on the fact that in the collective bargaining agreement, the draft and minor league players are the ones who get screwed.

@TPM posted:

Boras says Mets reneged. Mets feel Boras misrepresented.

Boras missing a few bucks in the bank, Mets get another pick.

Rocker gets nothing.

agreed but Rocker is hurt, he knew it.

Rocker hired Boras who is known commodity and he knew exactly what he was hiring.

Boras took a shot to get the kid life changing money while being hurt and it didn't work. It was probably worthwhile and reasonable attempt. They were probably hoping to 75% or so of slot money which is still a lot more then where he may have fallen to if he allowed pre draft evaluations...I don't see any villain's here. It is just business, no different then some freshman being released from a scholarship.

Attempting to paint Rocker as some innocent bystander who is now not getting paid is just inaccurate IMO.

eliminate the draft.  Player should be able to shop his talents to the highest bidder.

Maybe we should blame St. Tim Corbin for running him out there the last how many starts with a bad wing...or maybe we just understand that sometimes there is nobody to blame for an injury.

This isn't the first time or the last that an injury is going to stop or at least delay a potentially amazing career. Assuming he gets healthy he will make plenty of money somewhere else.

The Red Sox drafted a kid at like 9 or 10 a couple years back, he was maybe the top pitcher prospect in the draft, hurt his shoulder soon after...he got lucky, the Sox didn't. It is just the other side of the coin. Maybe if Rocker had come out of HS so highly ranked he would have some of story like this.

"MLB Pipeline had Groome as its No. 1 prospect in the 2016 draft, suggesting the high school hurler had “everything to be a top-of-the-rotation left-handed starting pitcher.” He wound up slipping to the Red Sox at No. 12 overall, however, thanks in large to signability and makeup concerns.

There’s always risk associated with drafting high school pitchers, and Groome, who returned to Barnegat High School in New Jersey for his senior season after transferring to IMG Academy in Florida for his junior season, was a particularly precarious pick. Not only were there character questions surrounding Groome, who had been suspended for what was deemed an improper transfer and who had changed his commitment from Vanderbilt to Chipola College. There also were pre-draft reports linking Groome to the San Diego Padres, who owned the 24th and 25th picks.

Nevertheless, the Red Sox rolled the dice, for Groome’s upside at age 17 was too tantalizing to pass up. They reportedly awarded him a $3.65 million bonus, $457,000 above the value assigned to that slot in the draft.

You need to get over it. We don't need you to educate us on past players who were top prospects.

Also, stop challenging people opinions.

You might end up like OLD_SCHOOL.

"you need to get over it" says the retired lady living in Florida who is the number 1 poster on youth baseball ball web site...got it.

I blame them all.  Rocker who was hurt, I would believe anyone who watched him throw this year knows something was off.  He should have been honest about his medical, if he was not and I don't know for sure.  If you are well then you have no problem with MRI.  Boras did what he does and tried to get the most for his clients but in this case it backfired on him.  He is not hurting one bit.  Lost a little money but no big deal for him.  Mets if they drafted him and had a deal and reneged on the deal.  Many reports say the deal included a medical exam and MRI which Rocker refused to get.  I hope it works out for Kumar but I'm afraid he will never be the same.  He has to get fixed whatever is going on with him medically.  That is going to be hard to do without everyone knowing.  I'm not sure what he should/will do this year.  I'm not sure going back to Vandy will help him because he will have to throw a lot of innings again for them.  Not sure if overseas is the answer or just rehab.  That is why hopefully he has the medical guys and the baseball guys giving him advice.  Lots of stuff for a 21 year old to process.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

eliminate the draft.  Player should be able to shop his talents to the highest bidder.

Clearly this would be better for the players in the short term, but long term teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and Mets would gobble up the best talent.  What happens to MLB competitive balance?  It worked barely when there were 16 teams but I don't see it surviving with 30 teams.

@old_school posted:

Maybe we should blame St. Tim Corbin for running him out there the last how many starts with a bad wing...or maybe we just understand that sometimes there is nobody to blame for an injury.

This isn't the first time or the last that an injury is going to stop or at least delay a potentially amazing career. Assuming he gets healthy he will make plenty of money somewhere else.

The Red Sox drafted a kid at like 9 or 10 a couple years back, he was maybe the top pitcher prospect in the draft, hurt his shoulder soon after...he got lucky, the Sox didn't. It is just the other side of the coin. Maybe if Rocker had come out of HS so highly ranked he would have some of story like this.

"MLB Pipeline had Groome as its No. 1 prospect in the 2016 draft, suggesting the high school hurler had “everything to be a top-of-the-rotation left-handed starting pitcher.” He wound up slipping to the Red Sox at No. 12 overall, however, thanks in large to signability and makeup concerns.

There’s always risk associated with drafting high school pitchers, and Groome, who returned to Barnegat High School in New Jersey for his senior season after transferring to IMG Academy in Florida for his junior season, was a particularly precarious pick. Not only were there character questions surrounding Groome, who had been suspended for what was deemed an improper transfer and who had changed his commitment from Vanderbilt to Chipola College. There also were pre-draft reports linking Groome to the San Diego Padres, who owned the 24th and 25th picks.

Nevertheless, the Red Sox rolled the dice, for Groome’s upside at age 17 was too tantalizing to pass up. They reportedly awarded him a $3.65 million bonus, $457,000 above the value assigned to that slot in the draft.

Groome has avoided any off-field issues since joining the Red Sox organization. Instead, injuries have held him back. Most notably, he missed the entire 2018 season after undergoing Tommy John surgery. He’s totaled just 66 innings in the minors and has yet to pitch above Single-A."

Red Sox Prospect Outlook: Where Jay Groome Stands In 2021 (nesn.com)

Five years later Groome is only up to High A. Minor leaguers are evaluated on far more stats. But Groome is 1-6 5.01. He has a K/IP ration of 1.25:1. But he doesn’t have enough control to average for than 4 1/3 innings per start. In the eyes of the Red Sox Nation Groome is a forgotten man. I hadn’t heard his name in over two years until this thread.

@Smitty28 posted:

Clearly this would be better for the players in the short term, but long term teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and Mets would gobble up the best talent.  What happens to MLB competitive balance?  It worked barely when there were 16 teams but I don't see it surviving with 30 teams.

The big money teams still dominate with the draft.  The big money teams tend to be contenders from year to year. The other well run, lower budget teams teams can only hope to pop in and out of contention with younger players. These are players the lower budget team usually can’t afford to keep long term.

@RJM posted:

The big money teams still dominate with the draft.  The big money teams tend to be contenders from year to year. The other well run, lower budget teams teams can only hope to pop in and out of contention with younger players. These are players the lower budget team usually can’t afford to keep long term.

Sort of, but not completely.  Just since 2000 we've seen Diamond Backs, Marlins, White Sox, Astros, Cardinals, Rockies, Tampa Bay, Phillies, Rangers, Tigers, Royals, Indians, Cubs, Nationals in the World Series.  Some made it multiple times.

Look at the 2 decades before the draft... Yankees in the WS 15 times, Dodgers in the WS 10 times, along with a smattering of Cards, Giants, Indians, Reds, and Phillies.  

This was the problem that the draft attempted to solve, and it helped but free-agency has shifted a lot of strength back to big market teams.

@Smitty28 posted:

Sort of, but not completely.  Just since 2000 we've seen Diamond Backs, Marlins, White Sox, Astros, Cardinals, Rockies, Tampa Bay, Phillies, Rangers, Tigers, Royals, Indians, Cubs, Nationals in the World Series.  Some made it multiple times.

Look at the 2 decades before the draft... Yankees in the WS 15 times, Dodgers in the WS 10 times, along with a smattering of Cards, Giants, Indians, Reds, and Phillies.  

This was the problem that the draft attempted to solve, and it helped but free-agency has shifted a lot of strength back to big market teams.

Several of the organizations you mentioned are in the top ten metro areas. They don’t have an excuse for not maintaining a competitive level. The Red Sox aren’t in the top ten (11th). The Giants are right behind the Red Sox in metro area (12th).

Cubs - 3

White Sox - 3

Rangers -4

Astros -5

Nationals -6

Marlins -7

Phillies -8

D’Backs -10

The Cardinals have been historically one of the best run organizations in baseball. The Royals are a perfect example of an organization that pops in and out when young players peak before leaving.

The Reds haven’t won in 31 years. The Tigers haven’t won in 37 years. The Indians haven’t won 67 years.

The Rockies and Rays have never won a championship. They haven’t contended consistently in their history. The Rays were brutally bad for years.

If you look at metro population ranking it’s shoots a lot of holes in what the sports media refers to as small town teams. It’s just those teams are either poorly run or cheap.

There's a lot that goes into creating a winning organization, the draft is just one factor.  So is player development, coaching, trading, free-agent signing, etc.  But it seems pretty clear that the draft is a big reason that more teams are participating in the WS in recent years, which in my view is good for MLB and has been a big factor in revenue growth (which is good for players).

@TPM posted:

You are assuming that you know all the details from what you have read and heard.

I agree, Mets should be penalized for not signing the player, not awarded.

I don't know all the details and I don't have any inside information from either party. I can only work with the information made publicly available.

In any event, the question was mostly about medical information not being made available for every player to every team. The Mets gambled drafting a pitcher who chose not to submit imaging. Maybe another team was willing to take him at 11-30 that may have said it's worth the risk. But its complete BS that the Mets own this kid's rights for another year when I'm sure somebody else would have picked him up.

I understand the Mets not wanting to sign a player they didn't think was healthy, but why draft a player if his health is a question. In my opinion - Mets should be relieved of any obligation to sign, but the unsigned player should be allowed to sign with anybody else up to the slot value of the #10 pick (if the Mets can't reach an agreement). That should be the price to pay for the Met front office not doing their homework.

@PABaseball posted:

I don't know all the details and I don't have any inside information from either party. I can only work with the information made publicly available.

In any event, the question was mostly about medical information not being made available for every player to every team. The Mets gambled drafting a pitcher who chose not to submit imaging. Maybe another team was willing to take him at 11-30 that may have said it's worth the risk. But its complete BS that the Mets own this kid's rights for another year when I'm sure somebody else would have picked him up.

I understand the Mets not wanting to sign a player they didn't think was healthy, but why draft a player if his health is a question. In my opinion - Mets should be relieved of any obligation to sign, but the unsigned player should be allowed to sign with anybody else up to the slot value of the #10 pick (if the Mets can't reach an agreement). That should be the price to pay for the Met front office not doing their homework.

I think you're on a right track, but with that set up the Mets would have been taking a much bigger risk with the pick and almost certainly would not have drafted him in the 1st round.

@PABaseball posted:

I don't know all the details and I don't have any inside information from either party. I can only work with the information made publicly available.

In any event, the question was mostly about medical information not being made available for every player to every team. The Mets gambled drafting a pitcher who chose not to submit imaging. Maybe another team was willing to take him at 11-30 that may have said it's worth the risk. But its complete BS that the Mets own this kid's rights for another year when I'm sure somebody else would have picked him up.

I understand the Mets not wanting to sign a player they didn't think was healthy, but why draft a player if his health is a question. In my opinion - Mets should be relieved of any obligation to sign, but the unsigned player should be allowed to sign with anybody else up to the slot value of the #10 pick (if the Mets can't reach an agreement). That should be the price to pay for the Met front office not doing their homework.

Agree with most of your last paragraph.  That's why I believe he was the one who lost the most.

JMO

@old_school posted:

He wound up slipping to the Red Sox at No. 12 overall, however, thanks in large to signability and makeup concerns.

Not only were there character questions surrounding Groome, who had been suspended for what was deemed an improper transfer and who had changed his commitment from Vanderbilt to Chipola College.

I really hate the media. I'm not sure what's worse, publicly writing about a topic they know very little about or having a great deal of talent and knowledge and grossly exaggerating/reporting inaccurately.

He was suspended due to a transfer, same way every other transfer has to sit out for a month to start the season, he did too. His commitment change was solely for draft leverage. If he wasn't going to be a top 15 pick, he wasn't going to waste 3 years at Vanderbilt when he would be a top 10 pick the following year out of Chipola.

It's written properly, but it's done to discredit him. If there were makeup concerns for him out of high school, they existed for reasons other than this. Citing these reasons as makeup issues is just inaccurate.

That being said, I can't remember an injured first round non signee working out recently. So my issue isn't with the Mets not signing 10, it has more to do with them drafting him in the first place.

@JCG posted:

I think you're on a right track, but with that set up the Mets would have been taking a much bigger risk with the pick and almost certainly would not have drafted him in the 1st round.

Well that's really my point. The Mets should not have drafted him at all if they weren't comfortable drafting a player with an imperfect MRI. I don't expect the Mets to sign a pitcher with structural damage. The Astros passed on Aiken and they've been the best team in baseball for the past 5-6 years because of it (Bregman was comp pick the following year).

It's very possible and probably highly likely that the Mets told him if he falls to 10 they'll sign him for 6 million. So if the Rockies call at 8 and offer slot of 5.1 odds are him and Boras say no.

The other issue is that if the pre draft MRI is voluntary - why don't the Mets have to make a qualifying offer?

I have not thought  this though as completely as you but I think for the first couple of rounds at least, slot money should be be non-negotiable. The whole business of squeezing college seniors and using the money to pay down-draft HS players is BS.  OTOH, what you describe Boras and Kumar possibly doing is BS too.

Here’s the Brady Aiken story as it occurred. The Astros were heavily criticized. They whiffed on Aiken, Jacoby Nix and Mac Marshall.

https://grantland.com/the-tria...number-1-draft-pick/

Brady Aiken

http://www.thebaseballcube.com...rofile.asp?ID=187774

Jacoby Nix

http://www.thebaseballcube.com...rofile.asp?ID=188137

Mac Marshall

http://www.thebaseballcube.com...rofile.asp?ID=188097

The Astros fell on the faces but landed on their feet scoring a perfect ten by missing out.

@RJM posted:

Here’s the Brady Aiken story as it occurred. The Astros were heavily criticized. They whiffed on Aiken, Jacoby Nix and Mac Marshall.

https://grantland.com/the-tria...number-1-draft-pick/

Brady Aiken

http://www.thebaseballcube.com...rofile.asp?ID=187774

Jacoby Nix

http://www.thebaseballcube.com...rofile.asp?ID=188137

Mac Marshall

http://www.thebaseballcube.com...rofile.asp?ID=188097

The Astros fell on the faces but landed on their feet scoring a perfect ten by missing out.

RJM senior posters on this web sire have made it clear that no history lessons on past draft picks are needed. Do not waste our time with facts…

@Smitty28 posted:

Clearly this would be better for the players in the short term, but long term teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and Mets would gobble up the best talent.  What happens to MLB competitive balance?  It worked barely when there were 16 teams but I don't see it surviving with 30 teams.

Business is never balanced, Free market principles.

@Smitty28 posted:

Clearly this would be better for the players in the short term, but long term teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and Mets would gobble up the best talent.  What happens to MLB competitive balance?  It worked barely when there were 16 teams but I don't see it surviving with 30 teams.

@smitty28  you can still keep a salary cap and penalize those teams that go over the cap.

@RJM posted:

Here’s the Brady Aiken story as it occurred. The Astros were heavily criticized. They whiffed on Aiken, Jacoby Nix and Mac Marshall.

https://grantland.com/the-tria...number-1-draft-pick/

Brady Aiken

http://www.thebaseballcube.com...rofile.asp?ID=187774

Jacoby Nix

http://www.thebaseballcube.com...rofile.asp?ID=188137

Mac Marshall

http://www.thebaseballcube.com...rofile.asp?ID=188097

The Astros fell on the faces but landed on their feet scoring a perfect ten by missing out.

I think Bregman and Correa worked out pretty well.  Better than most other teams' draft picks.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

@smitty28  you can still keep a salary cap and penalize those teams that go over the cap.

Sure, there are probably lots of ways to solve the problem of competitive balance.  The union, however, includes only MLB players.  They generally are very protective of their turf (see MiLB player salaries...).

@JCG posted:

I have not thought  this though as completely as you but I think for the first couple of rounds at least, slot money should be be non-negotiable. The whole business of squeezing college seniors and using the money to pay down-draft HS players is BS.  OTOH, what you describe Boras and Kumar possibly doing is BS too.

Don't disagree. Either way, rather unfortunate for the kid

@Smitty28 posted:

I think Bregman and Correa worked out pretty well.  Better than most other teams' draft picks.

What do Bregman and Correa have to do with the 2014 Astros draft and the fortunate whiffing on Aiken, Nix and Marshall? Correa was drafted in 2012. Bergman was drafted in 2015.

@JCG posted:

I have not thought  this though as completely as you but I think for the first couple of rounds at least, slot money should be be non-negotiable. The whole business of squeezing college seniors and using the money to pay down-draft HS players is BS.  OTOH, what you describe Boras and Kumar possibly doing is BS too.

Definitely agree with the bold above.

@RJM posted:

What do Bregman and Correa have to do with the 2014 Astros draft and the fortunate whiffing on Aiken, Nix and Marshall? Correa was drafted in 2012. Bergman was drafted in 2015.

Nothing.  What does the 2014 draft have to do with 40+ years of draft history?

@Smitty28 posted:

Sure, there are probably lots of ways to solve the problem of competitive balance.  The union, however, includes only MLB players.  They generally are very protective of their turf (see MiLB player salaries...).

Isn't that how unions normally work?

Note, a person with skills should be able to be go to the employer willing to pay the highest compensation. Why should it be any different than any other business in the United States?

Basically, baseball business model has components of indentured servitude.

@Smitty28 posted:

Nothing.  What does the 2014 draft have to do with 40+ years of draft history?

Brady Aiken was a pitcher drafted in the first round with arm issues. Rocker is a pitcher drafted in the first round with presumed arm issues. Seems like a connection since both have arm issues and were unsigned. The thread is about Rocker. Aiken was mentioned a couple of posts ahead of mine due to potential similarities.

I am just coming across this topic now, and it led me to a little research on my google machine and this 2018 article from Verducci:  https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/11...john-surgery-problem

The '22 draft class is absolutely loaded with high end HS arms, many of them having pitched into the high 90s this past year. But this article certainly raises a red flag for those teams thinking of jumping on one of them. As a father of a pitcher, it would certainly give me pause if I was thinking about the draft vs college. On one hand, you could make the argument that you should jump on the signing bonus out of HS because of the high chance of injury and low chance of MLB success (i.e., make $ off the arm while you can). On the other hand, the way you get considered in the first round out of HS (and get paid) is to increase velocity, which increases the chance of injury. There is also the Rocker fear -- you forego the $ out of HS and go to college, your coach has one motivation - to win games - and over pitches you (we could debate whether this happened with Rocker), and you don't get paid at all. There are risks all over the place, and I think it should all come down to one question for the high end HS pitcher -- what is the value of a college education and experience? This is the "life changing money" question, and it is different for each kid.

There are risks all over the place, and I think it should all come down to one question for the high end HS pitcher -- what is the value of a college education and experience? This is the "life changing money" question, and it is different for each kid.

First, I’ll make it clear education is a high priority in our family.  I agree with the concept of what is life changing money. It will vary from player to player. But, a player grabbing the money out of high school does not preclude attending college. For most players it means going back to college after baseball doesn’t work out.

I know a kid who went back to college at 27. He was a top prospect. Injuries took him down in AAA. He was focused. He didn’t see college as a party. He saw it as work. In his thirties he’s a very well compensated Wall Street analyst. Brad Ausmus went to college out of high school and didn’t start his minor league seasons until college was out in May.

@2022NYC posted:

How will this be affected when they strike next year?

The union doesn't care because draftees are future and not current union members.

I don't like that MRI program because there is just downside for the players and no upside but draft players essentially have zero leverage and neither the union nor the owners care about making it easier for them.

Personally I think that if a team doesn't even offer the player those 40% they used to offer to keep the pick the player should be a free agent to sign anywhere.

@TPM posted:

Boras says Mets reneged. Mets feel Boras misrepresented.

Boras missing a few bucks in the bank, Mets get another pick.

Rocker gets nothing.

For boras this is actually a good thing. He loses a million bucks (if he gets 15% or what) but by demonstrating that he is occasionally willing to walk away from a deal and take nothing he demonstrates the clubs that he is willing to take a zero if his demand is not met. For the individual player it is a big risk but the GMs know Boras won't budge so they usually don't even try to low ball him.

That is the risk players take with Boras, they know most of the time he gets his good deal but there is a small chance as a player you get screwed over.

Boras plays the long game, he can occasionally lose a deal when it strengthens his overall position.

@RJM posted:

What do Bregman and Correa have to do with the 2014 Astros draft and the fortunate whiffing on Aiken, Nix and Marshall? Correa was drafted in 2012. Bergman was drafted in 2015.

Below explains exactly how 2014 helped the Astros in 2015.  This points out exactly some of the problems with the draft and the teams benefits of not signing players.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/w...ays-off-2015-6%3famp

Would it be fair to say that Rocker knew he was hurt or his shoulder wasn't right and was misrepresenting/under-representing himself to get paid?

**Much smaller scale: Son signed with Boras and Mets and did MRI , draft physical and was a 5th rounder. Why should Rocker get special treatment when he will get paid much more for his talent?

I would also ask what this situation says about character...everyone hates Boras, i get it...but what does this say about Rocker's character? He elected to not take the MRI and the Mets opted to tell him to hit the road. It's their money until it isn't. 

Rocker was supposedly a top 5 pick, dropped into the Mets slot pick.

Slot value was 4.7 million.

Mets thinking they had a gem, who from a eligibility perspective was a Covid Sophomore.

Why did his value drop?

Boras applied some car wax, and was able to get a deal for 6 million.

Mets looked under the hood and saw some issues before completing the deal.

@Shoveit4Ks posted:

Would it be fair to say that Rocker knew he was hurt or his shoulder wasn't right and was misrepresenting/under-representing himself to get paid?

**Much smaller scale: Son signed with Boras and Mets and did MRI , draft physical and was a 5th rounder. Why should Rocker get special treatment when he will get paid much more for his talent?

I would also ask what this situation says about character...everyone hates Boras, i get it...but what does this say about Rocker's character? He elected to not take the MRI and the Mets opted to tell him to hit the road. It's their money until it isn't.

I'll be very interested to see what happens with Rocker in the spring.  It sure looked like he and Boras blew it.  But since the draft, the way that the Mets front office has devolved into an absolute s__t show, I find myself wondering if Boras was right all along and they were wrong. We'll see!  And we'll see if any of the Mets FA's choose to return to a team with no GM*, no manager, and a president nobody seems to trust.

I hope the chaos at the top helps create opportunities for your son and that he is healthy and able to capitalize on them.

*I wrote this before looking at The Athletic or MLB.com today.  They have a GM now! Seems like a good baseball guy and he's certainly inked some big deals, but obviously the results with the Angels were not great during his tenure. But when all the beautiful girls have shot you down, you need to be grateful when a nice, sensible girl agrees to dance with you.

It has been a s*^+ show for sure.

If rocker is really injured maybe the whole thing depending how damaged he was. If he still could have gotten 3 mil he probably should have taken it but if he would have fallen to the comp round and gotten one mil it probably is worth the risk to come back next year.

So maybe it was just either I get top10 money or I come back next year anyway.

It'll be interesting to see if we ever learn about the extent/accuracy of the concerns about Rocker. Reports I have read pointed to concerns about his elbow. That said, the elbow seems to be less concerning among MLB teams these days. Think back to 2012 when the Nationals drafted Giolito with the first pick knowing he would immediately need TJ.  TJ has become so commonplace that some believe the question for every pitcher is when, not if. Shoulder injuries and concerns seem to be more of a red flag. Thoughts on this?

With all this Rocker talk, I can’t but help think about Kevin Able.  In 2018 he was the Rocker of College baseball.  Over threw in the CWS.  But he was dominant!!!

TJ in 2019 and was drafted in this years draft.  Round 7.  Pretty steep fall from where he was.

@Around_The_Horn posted:

With all this Rocker talk, I can’t but help think about Kevin Able.  In 2018 he was the Rocker of College baseball.  Over threw in the CWS.  But he was dominant!!!

TJ in 2019 and was drafted in this years draft.  Round 7.  Pretty steep fall from where he was.

Abel was Not Draft eligible in 2019 though so it isn't really a good comparison

@Dominik85 posted:

Abel was Not Draft eligible in 2019 though so it isn't really a good comparison

No freaking duh!!!  I was just saying when ever I think of Rocker I think of Able and how both of their careers have gone from freshman phenom at CWS to where they both are now.

BTW not signing rocker still is very costly for the Mets.

First of all the Mets probably did save at least a million with their other picks to sign rocker. 1 million is about equivalent to a late second rounder and could have been used to sign better 2-9 picks (maybe an extra HS prospect instead of a college senior). Since those guys where already signed when rocker fell through the Mets never get that draft capital back. Of course cohen keeps that money in his private pocket but draft capital is way more valuable that real dollars to teams (estimations are 4-5 times https://blogs.fangraphs.com/an...o-value-draft-picks/)

Apart from wasting that draft capital saved for over slotting rocker they also went from 10th to 11th pick. From a pick alue standpoint that is no big deal but it means their pick is now not protected and they can't sign a guy with a comp pick attached to them without losing that pick. Usually a comp pick is more a late first rounder which hurts too but is not nearly as bad as losing the 11th overall.

That limits their options in the off season albeit they got scherzer who had no pick attached (for big money).

They probably had to pay scherzer the no comp attachment (which rises his value), so overall that decision still probably cost the Mets like 15 million of value (the million not spent in the draft is valued at around 5 million and the no comp attachment probably cost another 7 or 8)

Muck the fets

Edit - added link for context.

https://twitter.com/barstoolph...831211319123973?s=10

@old_school posted:

Muck the fets

Edit - added link for context.

https://twitter.com/barstoolph...831211319123973?s=10

Phillies fan … The NL East is ours.

Just like the NFC East, NBA Atlantic and the Metropolitan. Flyers fans are my favorite. They act like 1975 was yesterday. Probably the most delusional fans in sports are those who call Philadelphia sports talk radio to scream, “We’re going all the way, baby!”

Lol you should hear WIP this week after the eagles debacle! That kid from barstool rant is awesome, he is also local D3 baseball player I am told on very good info. Summary he addresses

old school Phillies jersey, puking in an Uber, Ben Simmons in a dumpster, the Marlins getting swept, 4 day old cheese steaks and smoking you buddies butts…in 50 seconds. Quality work

and oh I forgot - muck the fets

The Surgeon General has determined listening to sports talk radio may cause brain damage. I haven’t lived in Philadelphia since my youngest headed for college. But when the Eagles choke or get screwed The Fan is incredibly entertaining.

That said, friends say I do a good “Tony, fihst time, long time from Meffid (Medford MA to normal speaking people) …

Co rah don’t know what he’s do’in. He sucks. I coached LL. I know mo-ah about basebawl than Co rah. He-ahs what the Sawx need ta do.

Never call one of these shows to tell the host (once called Gargano) he’s wrong even if you have proof. You won’t get to finish a sentence. You will be insulted and hung up on. It doesn’t matter if you have facts. The callers job is to make the host look good.