Velocity

Welcome 2020MOM - Although your son is a freshmen, his birthday would make him an 8th grader in most instances.  I think his numbers would compare favorably with kids his age and most freshmen. 

Remember that one year in age difference could be two or three biologically. 

Driveline is the by far and away the best program out there. Science driven and cutting edge all while being affordable and approachable. There are a lot of imposters out there who claim a lot of things that just aren't true. But I can tell you first hand that Driveline is the best way to go. A lot will depend on the amount of work your son is willing to put into it but if he is motivated to do so (and my son was willing to work for it) then you can't beat Driveline.

Texas Baseball Ranch is a great place and Coach Wolforth is awesome. Very expensive and not quite as approachable as the guys at Driveline. But a great program, nonetheless. I think the Ranch does a great job on arm care and provides some great instruction, but again, it's pretty expensive.

My son started with the Ranch at about 13-14 yrs old, but moved to Driveline and really liked it and still uses their training methods in his college program. 

And don't believe the naysayers out there about Weighted Ball program. Driveline has some great articles like this one https://www.drivelinebaseball....upporting-their-use/ that detail a new study at ASMI that show they are a great tool to help with building velocity. 

You will hear a lot of different opinions about how best to safely train and build velocity. You will also run into "pitching coaches" who don't really know anything about how to safely train. Sitting on a bucket while your kid throws a bullpen to him doesn't make him an expert. My son and I made sure to educate ourselves so we could form the best decision on which program worked best for him. I would also recommend reading the book "The Arm" by Jeff Passan, which is one of the best ways to educate yourself on the the risks to young pitchers.

Good luck!

Fascinating book...read it last year.  I am interested in when your son began using the weighted balls for training and if he did it on his own or actually at the facility in Seattle.  It looks like none of their "onsite" training is geared for kids my son's age and it seems before doing this that supervision would be important.

Welcome 2020mom, caco will be getting to you shortly if not already lol.  When you discover the secret to velocity pass it along to me! Lol.  But I am also looking into the driveline program. We are like you at an OK velocity but feeling like he needs a little boost. Time to try something different. And I think that is the key - the same thing may not work for everybody. Just got to keep trying!

Hi 2020Mom, I am the aforementioned Caco.  I will be sending you a PM, please look for the red circle near your name up top to access your private messages.

However, before I do that let me ask how big your son is?  How far into puberty is he?  Is he 6'2 and 200 pounds or is he 5'8 and 140 pounds?  This will matter greatly in the advice you receive.

2020Mom posted:

I have been reading the forum for several months and finally "joined" as an official poster!  So much great information here with kids at all levels.  So here's my issue...

My son is a Freshman in high school and has played travel ball year round while taking time off to shut his arm down once or twice a year.  He a "young" freshman just turned 14 at end of October.  He is a LHP and is in the low 70's.  He hit the weight room for the first time in the Fall while playing Freshman football [mostly on the sidelines although he enjoyed it very much!] and was able to build core/arm and leg strength. 

Any advice on the best way to build his velocity without hurting his arm?  I have read about the Driveline program where they use weighted balls and have heard differing opinions.  Any experience with any of your kids doing this and if so, at what age?  Other ideas or ways you know pitchers have increased velocity?  He loves baseball and is good at getting ground outs and has a great defense behind him so his stats looks good but his speed is lower than most at the tournaments we attend.  He would like to play in college (although I am sure he will be changing a lot over the next 4 years) and did great on the PSAT with all A's first semester.

I know he compares himself with others when you look up statistics for your teammates and others on sites like Perfect Game and even though he made the All Tournament Team was disappointed due to his low velocity number.  His abilities as a student may outrun his baseball skills which in my mind is fine but if there is a possibility of him going to a great college and playing ball that would be his dream.

 

It would help many of us to know his current physical specs (e.g. height, weight) along with some idea of what his gene pool is like . . .???

It's surprising how fast some kids mature physically over the next couple of year in HS.  So, if he's a little on the light side as a freshman I wouldn't be too concerned about velocity.  At this age there's such a large variance kids of this age, so your son shouldn't be too caught up in those who may be more mature with higher velocities.  

The main thing right now is to be sure he's developing and using the proper mechanics to get to the higher end of velocities.  This is a good time to develop the muscle memory for the proper mechanics.  Along with that, he should be working on strength, conditioning and flexibility of his core, and leg strength is important for a pitcher too. 

Weighted balls are ok to use as part of an overall strength and conditioning program, but they're better used as something to augment a strength and conditioning program and not as a primary function.   When those male hormones really kick in, there can be some amazing changes. 

2020MOM, My son (also a 2020) has strengthened his arm over the last several years with long toss.  Together with a consistent pitching coach that focuses on mechanics and a plyometric style workout, he has increased his velocity.  And also, he has physically matured, so some of it is definitely growing and getting stronger.

Here is the type of long toss he has done the last several years.  http://www.jaegersports.com/Ar...th-and-Conditioning/

Welcome 2020MOM!

I have two boys playing college baseball now.  One (SS/RHP) throws 90s in his sleep.  The other (SS/2B) needed a lot of work to improve.

Driveline is a great program.  My boys also did the Texas Baseball Ranch and one spent time at the Florida Baseball Ranch.  Echoing the Rover, Wolforth is great.  I'd say Randy Sullivan in Florida is much more approachable (and a physical therapist).  The Elite Pitcher's Bootcamp is a nice weekend introduction to the Ranch's concepts.  Whether it's one of the Ranches or Driveline, their ideas have been tested. 

IMHO, a lot depends on what the kid is able to do once they're not at a training site.  A lot of coaches won't or don't subscribe to Driveline's or the TX/FL/AZ Ranch concepts and it makes training alone or at your home location pretty challenging.

You mentioned your son hitting the weight room for the first time this Fall.  I can't emphasize that enough, if done correctly.  He's got a lot of time at this stage to really build himself up.  My older guy trained at Cressey in Massachusetts; my younger guy at Sparta in California.  These were very focused training/conditioning programs optimized for the athlete (age, sport, etc.).  Conditioning done right will help build a player's body...and as a result in my sons' cases, help them throw harder. 

Hopefully he can find a great conditioning program, and a great velocity improvement program.  As with a lot of things, it's time and money.  But for a pitcher, particularly a young man like yours, it can be $ well spent.  Good luck!

My son (2015) was 5'2 and maybe 110 as a freshman...throwing low 70's.  He never lifted....just threw long toss...ALOT!!   He added 5-6mph a year and was throwing 89-90 his senior year.  He has lifted since he got to college....but still doesn't do anything other than long toss as far as a throwing routine.  He's 91-92 now. 

Son is on a program in college that incorporates a lot of Baseball Ranch and some Driveline training methodologies.  I can say I'm a big believer. 

He worked with a local trainer in HS that trains lots of pro pitchers in the off season. He was in great shape but not a ton of velocity gain IMO  

In two months on campus this fall he jumped 4-5 mph. Says his arm has never felt better.  If you read some of their stuff some of this is mental too. Arm feels great allowing you to mentally throw with as much intent as possible. 

Good Luck

CaCo my son is 6'1" and a skinny 150 despite all he eats! 

Thank you for all the responses.  Our "gene pool" has some tall men on my side of the family...several at 6'3" but not so much on his Dad's side.  I appreciate all advice especially for conditioning.  We didn't want to push it too soon but now I can see we will probably need something more than what is available at his HS.

Driveline is a great program, and my son also works with the Texas Baseball Ranch.  A lot of similarities, and we worth with the Ranch since the academy he trains at works with and hosts TBR camps, so it works well.  I haven't found them to be unapproachable, however, pretty much the opposite in our experience.

Best of luck to your son, hope to hear more as he develops!

Truman posted:

Weighted balls are ok to use as part of an overall strength and conditioning program, but they're better used as something to augment a strength and conditioning program and not as a primary function.   When those male hormones really kick in, there can be some amazing changes. 

 Agree with Truman.  Weighted balls should be supplementary to strength & conditioning basics - squats, deadlifts, power cleans, plyometrics - as long as someone can show him how to safely and properly execute those movements.  Then, as he builds up a strength base, add in the weighted balls.

I see you are doing Jaeger-style long toss.  I'm a big believer in that for arm health.

I've never done a weighted ball program, but it's hard to argue with the results at Driveline.  The research they do at their facility is phenomenal.

2020Mom posted:

Fascinating book...read it last year.  I am interested in when your son began using the weighted balls for training and if he did it on his own or actually at the facility in Seattle.  It looks like none of their "onsite" training is geared for kids my son's age and it seems before doing this that supervision would be important.

He started right around the start of HS. He followed the Ranch program closely and then spent a month out at the Ranch during their summer program. He then moved to Driveline and did their "Remote" program for a couple of years. He actually went out to Seattle and trained there this summer before heading to college. 

I made a deal with my son a long time ago where I would support him financially with these programs as long as he worked hard at them, which he did so it was a great experience. Not all kids are willing to put the work into doing the things that it will take to play at the next level. A lot say they do, but never end up wanting to put in the work.

I'm grateful that he is much more informed kid on arm care, proper movement patterns and the effort it takes.

FrankJP posted:

Driveline is a great program, and my son also works with the Texas Baseball Ranch.  A lot of similarities, and we worth with the Ranch since the academy he trains at works with and hosts TBR camps, so it works well.  I haven't found them to be unapproachable, however, pretty much the opposite in our experience.

Best of luck to your son, hope to hear more as he develops!

The Ranch is great and all of the people there are awesome. My point about "approachable" was more about communicating remotely. Kyle and the Driveline team are great about answering tweets, emails and texts. I doubt too many people are just picking up the phone and calling Wolforth. It's not a knock on Wolforth at all, he's a fantastic coach and even better person. His family is incredible. 

Just wanted to clarify what I meant by that statement. 

I see you're from San Diego. At this point, no need to spend money to go anywhere.

There is a PC in Poway who has a stable of over 100 pro pitchers (many are cracking MLB) - most of whom have been with him since college or before. His goal is velo. Go, sit in his Back Yard, and see for yourself. (Right now the program is in full swing so your son may get a kick out of just watching the scene. At this point it's 7 days a week until the men begin heading off to ST.)

I could fill a page with what I think, but he'll explain it better - Jeager v. Weighted balls v bands, etc.. Let's just say he took my S in ninth grade who was low 70s, 5' 3" ish and 115, and turned him into a HS senior throwing 90 (5' 11", 140 as senior), with no injuries, lots of fun and mentoring (S is now retired and still keeps close touch). S was not an outlier result.

We spent five days a week during HS driving from downtown out to Poway (his program has a great physical training element [Hoefflins]), continued training whenever S was in town during college, and through his pro years.

Tremendous pro and college connections (every type of college, from JUCO through IVY league). My S had minimal showcase and travel ball exposure; just pitched in the Back Yard and the exposure came to him.

On top of that, as a person who cares about the kid (not just the baseball part), you'd be hard pressed to find a better mentor.

So, go see for yourself; doesn't matter which program is great (and there are many), unless your S bonds with the coach and wants to be there, there is no point.

Feel free to PM me for details, if you're interested.

My son has always been one of the hardest throwers in his age group,   he's thrown 82 recently as a 14 yr old 8th grader.   Our future high school pitching coach reached out to us when he heard we were going to attend his school next year and invited my son to do a weighted ball workout that he's been doing with his high school and travel team pitcher during the month of Dec and Jan.   Ill let you know how it goes,  its been tough to stay on program we seem to miss 1 or 2 day every week for 1 reason or another but I think its helping.   at a minimum it seems hes getting his arm in shape for the spring season about to start down here in Texas  like tomorrow.    It was interesting when coach pulled out the radar the other day and was getting times for every color ball the intensity really picked up.    Everyone complained of being sore the next day,  as an aside from a different thread I picked up a marc pro on ebay for about 1/2 cost of a new one and my son used it that night and was only kid the next day that was not sore.   

Please, no one take offense, BUT FOR HS FRESHMAN AND YOUNGER, STOP THE VELO OBSESSION!

I can't count the number of young pitchers I have seen who are throwing beyond what their body is prepared to take - with the resulting career ending or career retarding injuries (needing TJ or labrum and taking a year off as a Jr. Is a disaster).

Building velo is a process - a long process with incremental or no improvement for periods following by noticeable increases (notable being 2 - 3 mph over a six month period). Many times it's because the growth spurt knocks the coordination off and NOTHING - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - a PC can do can override that; moreover, trying to can lead to disaster. During puberty, the body development mostly drives the improvement; but during that time, dialing in decent mechanics, getting the kid to feel his body (so he's not just mechanically going through the motions) is critical; during this period, doing the correct PT will build up the body so it's prepared for the day when all parts are reasonably mature and ready to rock and roll.

Pulling out a radar gun on these kids is lunacy - because the kid pitches to the gun, exerting more effort which doesn't get any real velo and can lead to injury.

Put another way, no college coach cares, no scout cares, about what a 15 year old throws. This is a marathon and all too many treat it as a sprint - and have their kid sprinting a marathon is a recipe for disaster.

As the parent of a kid whose life dream was advancing to baseball's next level, it was a process with no fairy dust leading to success; it was hard, hard work for a long, long time with small improvements with no shortcuts. 

PATIENCE!

PS. I am speaking as one who is able to pontificate from the other side (post-baseball). I am simply trying to offer the lessons we learned - I was just as obsessed as most during those HS and even earlier years (I was the crazy one with a radar gun on 12 yr olds.) We didn't understand s**t going through the process; now, I understand it. Fortunately, I got S to a PC before he got hurt from my well-intentioned involvement.

Goosegg posted:

Please, no one take offense, BUT FOR HS FRESHMAN AND YOUNGER, STOP THE VELO OBSESSION!

I can't count the number of young pitchers I have seen who are throwing beyond what their body is prepared to take - with the resulting career ending or career retarding injuries (needing TJ or labrum and taking a year off as a Jr. Is a disaster).

Building velo is a process - a long process with incremental or no improvement for periods following by noticeable increases (notable being 2 - 3 mph over a six month period). Many times it's because the growth spurt knocks the coordination off and NOTHING - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - a PC can do can override that; moreover, trying to can lead to disaster. During puberty, the body development mostly drives the improvement; but during that time, dialing in decent mechanics, getting the kid to feel his body (so he's not just mechanically going through the motions) is critical; during this period, doing the correct PT will build up the body so it's prepared for the day when all parts are reasonably mature and ready to rock and roll.

Pulling out a radar gun on these kids is lunacy - because the kid pitches to the gun, exerting more effort which doesn't get any real velo and can lead to injury.

Put another way, no college coach cares, no scout cares, about what a 15 year old throws. This is a marathon and all too many treat it as a sprint - and have their kid sprinting a marathon is a recipe for disaster.

As the parent of a kid whose life dream was advancing to baseball's next level, it was a process with no fairy dust leading to success; it was hard, hard work for a long, long time with small improvements with no shortcuts. 

PATIENCE!

Thank you, Goose! I was cringing when I read this thread!

I'm not gonna come on here and bash the "velo" contingency, but I guarantee our latin friends in the DR are not doing  the weighted balls, ect.

It's about continuing to improve and maturation has a funny way of helping out in the process.

Do I believe in functional strength?   Yes, add that with mobility, athleticism and solid mechanics for young high school players!

After the high school level, the competition could care less about velocity because they'll simply make adjustments!

"my son is 6'1" and a skinny 150"

My son weighed less than yours and looked like a string when he first hit 90mph.  So, gaining weight/strength won't hurt, but it's not the golden route to 85+.  Technique is almost everything.

Velocity opens doors.

Goosegg posted:

Put another way, no college coach cares, no scout cares, about what a 15 year old throws. This is a marathon and all too many treat it as a sprint - and have their kid sprinting a marathon is a recipe for disaster.

The amount of 2020/2019 commitments to colleges would indicate you are wrong.

kids grow at different ages you just never know,   1st rd pick of the Astros last yr was throwing low 70s as a freshman,  was hitting 97 last yr as a senior in high school.   so you just have to patient.  

CaCO3Girl posted:

Goosegg posted:

Put another way, no college coach cares, no scout cares, about what a 15 year old throws. This is a marathon and all too many treat it as a sprint - and have their kid sprinting a marathon is a recipe for disaster.

The amount of 2020/2019 commitments to colleges would indicate you are wrong.

Not too many 2020's just yet and then 2020's that are showing committed are phenoms.  PG is showing a grand total of 303 commitments for 2019 and I would assume fewer than 50 are listed for 2020.  It seems like way too many "facts" are getting based on committing as a rising sophomore to a top 25 team (not even counting the Power 5 cellar dwellers).  Even if you construct your facts around the 50th percentile of D1 pitchers, Goosegg's comment has a lot of merit (even more if you substitute 14 yo).  The couple of 2019 pitcher commits were basically all 16 yo and up with one kid already 17 1/2.

2020Mom, my humble advice...

- Don't sweat it. Your son is in a rare demographic. He throws left, pitches, and is in the 99th percentile in height. That doesn't guarantee success, but it sure puts the odds in his favor. He's also very young compared to the kid he will be competing with in the 2020 college recruiting class. I would not rush him along. Make sure his conditioning is appropriate to his level of physical maturity.

- Take Goosegg up on his offer of a PM.

gunner34 posted:

My son has always been one of the hardest throwers in his age group,   he's thrown 82 recently as a 14 yr old 8th grader.   Our future high school pitching coach reached out to us when he heard we were going to attend his school next year and invited my son to do a weighted ball workout that he's been doing with his high school and travel team pitcher during the month of Dec and Jan.   Ill let you know how it goes,  its been tough to stay on program we seem to miss 1 or 2 day every week for 1 reason or another but I think its helping.   at a minimum it seems hes getting his arm in shape for the spring season about to start down here in Texas  like tomorrow.    It was interesting when coach pulled out the radar the other day and was getting times for every color ball the intensity really picked up.    Everyone complained of being sore the next day,  as an aside from a different thread I picked up a marc pro on ebay for about 1/2 cost of a new one and my son used it that night and was only kid the next day that was not sore.   

Manage your son closely... Coaches have good intentions but unless they're teaching the correct protocols and the player is following the protocol to the detail you can run into arm issues.  Whether it's weighted ball or bands.

Our club baseball program went big on the weighted ball program 2 years ago and disbanded it after only a year.  The reason: a few kids hurt their arms and they think it's because the kids started doing their own versions of the weighted ball program, and the program didn't want the risk.  Good intentions, but too many young kids without the maturity and discipline to follow the procedures, and they lacked the physical strength to put their bodies in the correct position to execttue the moves.  Our baseball program now focuses on dedicated strength training applicable for baseball and long toss.  A few of the kids that had success with the weighted ball program now do it as a supplement to their development at another facility where the pitching instructor is dialed into the protocols, arm care, and throwing is his thing (smaller version of Texas B. Ranch or Driveline).  

MidAtlanticDad posted:

2020Mom, my humble advice...

- Don't sweat it. Your son is in a rare demographic. He throws left, pitches, and is in the 99th percentile in height. That doesn't guarantee success, but it sure puts the odds in his favor. He's also very young compared to the kid he will be competing with in the 2020 college recruiting class. I would not rush him along. Make sure his conditioning is appropriate to his level of physical maturity.

- Take Goosegg up on his offer of a PM.

Concur.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Goosegg posted:

Put another way, no college coach cares, no scout cares, about what a 15 year old throws. This is a marathon and all too many treat it as a sprint - and have their kid sprinting a marathon is a recipe for disaster.

The amount of 2020/2019 commitments to colleges would indicate you are wrong.

Not too many 2020's just yet and then 2020's that are showing committed are phenoms.  PG is showing a grand total of 303 commitments for 2019 and I would assume fewer than 50 are listed for 2020.  It seems like way too many "facts" are getting based on committing as a rising sophomore to a top 25 team (not even counting the Power 5 cellar dwellers).  Even if you construct your facts around the 50th percentile of D1 pitchers, Goosegg's comment has a lot of merit (even more if you substitute 14 yo).  The couple of 2019 pitcher commits were basically all 16 yo and up with one kid already 17 1/2.

My son is a 2020, I know just locally more than 20 kids that have offers, and I don't know that many people.  It would appear to me that MANY offers are going out based on projection and people are being smart and saying "No, we aren't ready yet." 

If anyone wants to give the advice to take things slow, let the body progress naturally, don't base projections of what you think your kid will be doing in 12thgrade off of what he is doing in 9th grade... I am 100% good with that.  However, the idea that NO college coach cares what a 15 year old is throwing is false.  They have to care, it's their job to care.

The time is now.  Once you get to high school your time is running short quickly.  Now is when you should be asking the questions of what you have to do to get velocity up so that come junior year it IS up!  The great ones will already be offered to by then.  Many committed.  If you are not getting an offer as a freshman it tells you they do not consider you elite.  If you are not even getting mild interest it tells you they don't consider you at all!  Need to have some interest by end of sophomore year or you can definitely consider yourself behind the 8 ball.  Remember you might get one year of a huge jump, maybe 7 or 8mph.  Probably not two.  The rest of the way through hs you may get 2-3.  So if you are say 75 as a freshman...  Then 82 as a soph, 85 as a junior you are definitely on the bubble and definitely waiting til senior season - most spots are long since gone by then.  Now you are lowering your sights.  So NOW is the time to get those MPH!!

I don't know anything about pitching, never have and probably never will so I have no idea what it takes to gain velocity...but using weighted balls is liking throwing a curve ball from what I've heard.  If you do it right, probably not much of a risk but if you do it wrong, you might want to have Dr. Andrews number handy.   

SultanofSwat posted:

"my son is 6'1" and a skinny 150"

My son weighed less than yours and looked like a string when he first hit 90mph.  So, gaining weight/strength won't hurt, but it's not the golden route to 85+.  Technique is almost everything.

Velocity opens doors.

Likewise, my son was a true 6.0' and a skinny 145 and has always strove to be "bigger" (like when he was little after weighing in at the doctor's office at 43 lbs and telling the doctor of his goal . . . "I want to be 50 lbs.").  As a HS freshman he was sitting at 79-80 and touching 82 (and keep in mind, this wasn't throwing all out as hard as he could, but more like 90% to maintain command).  He got here because the year before we worked a lot on his mechanics and (in our case) never worked on strength and conditioning as I just felt it wasn't that important at that stage.  He was already VERY athletic and had a strong and flexible core.  His HS had a specified strength and conditioning facility and coaching that was mainly directed towards football, but baseball players would take part and later in HS my son got serious about that and the nutrition that needs to go along with it.  By his senior year he grew to 6'2" and 185 lbs and his pitching was sitting at 90 and touching 93.  

He was a two way player SS/RHP with most of his interest for playing SS.  He was recruited for both way and turned down a draft as a pitcher to play SS at dream school college.  As he entered college he felt his size still wasn't enough and he wanted to be "bigger", though he was touching 94 his college freshman year.  His body had matured  and as he increased his caloric intake and lots of strength and conditioning, height didn't increase but he got up to his goal of 205 lbs. in the sophomore year.  IMHO, I don't feel that weight was good for him and it seemed to slow his agility down a bit defensively sprinting wise and he has a hard time maintaining any weight over 200 lbs.

After listening to and speaking with Tom House at a baseball coaches convention, he inspired me to focus on my son's mechanics.  And I'm strongly convinced that mechanics/technique is indeed "almost everything" . . . particularly at these younger ages.  I believe focusing on it early certainly worked well for my son.

"The amount of 2020/2019 commitments to colleges would indicate you are wrong."

Did I miss that the NCAA now has NLI's for freshman or sophomores?

Do you understand what those early commitments are worth?

Many posters here have tried to explain how the system works; yet, you keep going to the same watering trough of looking at what A PLAYER does - not what THE SCHOOL does.

Let me put it this way: 2020A throws 85 at a showcase and a coach approaches his naive parents, throws an unenforceable offer in front of them, and gets a "comittment."  2020B is busy working on his mechanics and conditioning and has no idea what his velo is (but, let's say 72), and attends no showcases. Junior year arrives. 2020A is throwing 85 at his umpteenth showcase. 2020B shows up for the first time and throws 89.

What do you think happens? To the coaches it's a business, it's not personal. 

Stop living in fear that the train is leaving the station without your sons. While the coaches are indeed throwing "offers" around, each knows that the "offers" will only turn enforceable if the player appears to be able to contribute to the program. It's a brutal world for the kid who has been maneuvered out of his unenforceable offer - and coaches are experts at the maneuver. 

In other words, that early offer is meaningful ONLY if the player continues on the path the coach projected; if not, the player will be replaced by one who is on a path to help the program. So, if you want to push that kid who isn't physically ready, who doesn't have the proper mechanics, who gets injured because of all that, fine - one less player in the game of musical chairs.

As for attention from pro scouts, while I am at a HS game scouting a senior, yes, attention will be paid to an incredible underclassman. But all I do is write his name down and file it (along with the velo); the kid gets no credit for his FB velo - because it just doesn't matter until draft year. And, if he was 88 as a junior, he better be more than that as a senior.

Now, from all my posts, you do understand that I feel velo is king. But you can't get there without following a long, hard road which has no shortcuts and which cannot be forced.  All you can do is prepare the body for the time the entire chain is ready to come together - some parts of the chain can be worked on early (mechanics, PT, game IQ); other parts can't (growth, physical maturity). Forcing the issue doesn't move the goal closer - it may even foreclose the goal.

As always, the original question turns into an debate about another topic...Time to stop following this thread...

Goosegg posted:

"The amount of 2020/2019 commitments to colleges would indicate you are wrong."

Did I miss that the NCAA now has NLI's for freshman or sophomores?

Do you understand what those early commitments are worth?

Many posters here have tried to explain how the system works; yet, you keep going to the same watering trough of looking at what A PLAYER does - not what THE SCHOOL does.

Let me put it this way: 2020A throws 85 at a showcase and a coach approaches his naive parents, throws an unenforceable offer in front of them, and gets a "comittment."  2020B is busy working on his mechanics and conditioning and has no idea what his velo is (but, let's say 72), and attends no showcases. Junior year arrives. 2020A is throwing 85 at his umpteenth showcase. 2020B shows up for the first time and throws 89.

What do you think happens? To the coaches it's a business, it's not personal. 

Stop living in fear that the train is leaving the station without your sons. While the coaches are indeed throwing "offers" around, each knows that the "offers" will only turn enforceable if the player appears to be able to contribute to the program. It's a brutal world for the kid who has been maneuvered out of his unenforceable offer - and coaches are experts at the maneuver. 

In other words, that early offer is meaningful ONLY if the player continues on the path the coach projected; if not, the player will be replaced by one who is on a path to help the program. So, if you want to push that kid who isn't physically ready, who doesn't have the proper mechanics, who gets injured because of all that, fine - one less player in the game of musical chairs.

As for attention from pro scouts, while I am at a HS game scouting a senior, yes, attention will be paid to an incredible underclassman. But all I do is write his name down and file it (along with the velo); the kid gets no credit for his FB velo - because it just doesn't matter until draft year. And, if he was 88 as a junior, he better be more than that as a senior.

Now, from all my posts, you do understand that I feel velo is king. But you can't get there without following a long, hard road which has no shortcuts and which cannot be forced.  All you can do is prepare the body for the time the entire chain is ready to come together - some parts of the chain can be worked on early (mechanics, PT, game IQ); other parts can't (growth, physical maturity). Forcing the issue doesn't move the goal closer - it may even foreclose the goal.

I agree with everything you have said in THIS post.  I was pointing out the flaw in your previous post. 

College coaches do care what 15 year olds are throwing...not many 15 year olds... and if your 15 year old isn't throwing 80 that doesn't mean anything long term, and if your 15 year old IS throwing 90 again, that doesn't mean anything long term. 

I do understand what you are saying and agree with the principles you have stated, just not that ONE line.

"College coaches do care what 15 year olds are throwing...not many 15 year olds... and if your 15 year old isn't throwing 80 that doesn't mean anything long term, and if your 15 year old IS throwing 90 again, that doesn't mean anything long term."

No, college coaches have parents thinking they care. The coaches know that it's Kabuki theater, know it's illusory, and know that's how the recruiting game is currently played - and the parents and players are worse off for that.

Goosegg posted:

"Stop living in fear that the train is leaving the station without your sons. While the coaches are indeed throwing "offers" around, each knows that the "offers" will only turn enforceable if the player appears to be able to contribute to the program. It's a brutal world for the kid who has been maneuvered out of his unenforceable offer - and coaches are experts at the maneuver. 

Yo, i did that...folks, please listen...step away from the trough. 

As far as the Velo, big D1s didn't really pay attention to my undersized, "max effort" kid until he hit 90 consistently his Junior HS season. He had lived in the weight room for the previous 6 months and squatting became his 2nd love. It didn't hurt to have a + curveball. Otherwise, he was just another short RHP toiling away chasing the dream.Take care of his arm/health, research alot  and ask questions along the way. 

I wish you and your son much success.

I guess we all want to think our kid is "Elite" and wonder why he doesn't have an offer to the power 5 school in 8th grade.  Having been on here for several years now, I think the majority of kids are well outside that demographic.  Most people on here are here to help there kid play baseball as long as they can, where ever they can.  This gets back to the "dream school" discussion, early offers, and all the other things that go into this baseball recruiting world.  What is great about this site is that whatever level your kid is at and whatever level of "recruit" he may be, there is someone on here who has been there/done that.  It is really hard, but let the situation play out.  Get good coaching, work on mechanics, get stronger etc.  Control the things you can control and if all goes well, they can continue to play beyond high school if that is the dream.  For others it may be to just be part of the high school team.  Whatever the goal, enjoy the ride and try not to force it.  It really does go fast...

As I said, my son never used the weighted ball program, but someone earlier in this thread said their coach pulled out a radar gun had the kids throw weighted balls and everyone was sore the next day.  I've never heard of anyone using a gun with weighted balls. 

Buckeye 2015 posted:

As I said, my son never used the weighted ball program, but someone earlier in this thread said their coach pulled out a radar gun had the kids throw weighted balls and everyone was sore the next day.  I've never heard of anyone using a gun with weighted balls. 

Scary visual

Actually both Driveline and Baseball Ranch both use the gun with weighted balls.  I believe both overload and underloadRemember these programs are all about tracking and measuring progress.  There are lots of impacts on the athlete's mental game as well and progress tracking plays a big part here too.  

I've seen the impacts on my son physically, mentally, and pitch quality.  I'm a big believer. It will be the future IMO