Velocity

Welcome 2020MOM - Although your son is a freshmen, his birthday would make him an 8th grader in most instances.  I think his numbers would compare favorably with kids his age and most freshmen. 

Remember that one year in age difference could be two or three biologically. 

Driveline is the by far and away the best program out there. Science driven and cutting edge all while being affordable and approachable. There are a lot of imposters out there who claim a lot of things that just aren't true. But I can tell you first hand that Driveline is the best way to go. A lot will depend on the amount of work your son is willing to put into it but if he is motivated to do so (and my son was willing to work for it) then you can't beat Driveline.

Texas Baseball Ranch is a great place and Coach Wolforth is awesome. Very expensive and not quite as approachable as the guys at Driveline. But a great program, nonetheless. I think the Ranch does a great job on arm care and provides some great instruction, but again, it's pretty expensive.

My son started with the Ranch at about 13-14 yrs old, but moved to Driveline and really liked it and still uses their training methods in his college program. 

And don't believe the naysayers out there about Weighted Ball program. Driveline has some great articles like this one https://www.drivelinebaseball....upporting-their-use/ that detail a new study at ASMI that show they are a great tool to help with building velocity. 

You will hear a lot of different opinions about how best to safely train and build velocity. You will also run into "pitching coaches" who don't really know anything about how to safely train. Sitting on a bucket while your kid throws a bullpen to him doesn't make him an expert. My son and I made sure to educate ourselves so we could form the best decision on which program worked best for him. I would also recommend reading the book "The Arm" by Jeff Passan, which is one of the best ways to educate yourself on the the risks to young pitchers.

Good luck!

Fascinating book...read it last year.  I am interested in when your son began using the weighted balls for training and if he did it on his own or actually at the facility in Seattle.  It looks like none of their "onsite" training is geared for kids my son's age and it seems before doing this that supervision would be important.

Welcome 2020mom, caco will be getting to you shortly if not already lol.  When you discover the secret to velocity pass it along to me! Lol.  But I am also looking into the driveline program. We are like you at an OK velocity but feeling like he needs a little boost. Time to try something different. And I think that is the key - the same thing may not work for everybody. Just got to keep trying!

Hi 2020Mom, I am the aforementioned Caco.  I will be sending you a PM, please look for the red circle near your name up top to access your private messages.

However, before I do that let me ask how big your son is?  How far into puberty is he?  Is he 6'2 and 200 pounds or is he 5'8 and 140 pounds?  This will matter greatly in the advice you receive.

2020Mom posted:

I have been reading the forum for several months and finally "joined" as an official poster!  So much great information here with kids at all levels.  So here's my issue...

My son is a Freshman in high school and has played travel ball year round while taking time off to shut his arm down once or twice a year.  He a "young" freshman just turned 14 at end of October.  He is a LHP and is in the low 70's.  He hit the weight room for the first time in the Fall while playing Freshman football [mostly on the sidelines although he enjoyed it very much!] and was able to build core/arm and leg strength. 

Any advice on the best way to build his velocity without hurting his arm?  I have read about the Driveline program where they use weighted balls and have heard differing opinions.  Any experience with any of your kids doing this and if so, at what age?  Other ideas or ways you know pitchers have increased velocity?  He loves baseball and is good at getting ground outs and has a great defense behind him so his stats looks good but his speed is lower than most at the tournaments we attend.  He would like to play in college (although I am sure he will be changing a lot over the next 4 years) and did great on the PSAT with all A's first semester.

I know he compares himself with others when you look up statistics for your teammates and others on sites like Perfect Game and even though he made the All Tournament Team was disappointed due to his low velocity number.  His abilities as a student may outrun his baseball skills which in my mind is fine but if there is a possibility of him going to a great college and playing ball that would be his dream.

 

It would help many of us to know his current physical specs (e.g. height, weight) along with some idea of what his gene pool is like . . .???

It's surprising how fast some kids mature physically over the next couple of year in HS.  So, if he's a little on the light side as a freshman I wouldn't be too concerned about velocity.  At this age there's such a large variance kids of this age, so your son shouldn't be too caught up in those who may be more mature with higher velocities.  

The main thing right now is to be sure he's developing and using the proper mechanics to get to the higher end of velocities.  This is a good time to develop the muscle memory for the proper mechanics.  Along with that, he should be working on strength, conditioning and flexibility of his core, and leg strength is important for a pitcher too. 

Weighted balls are ok to use as part of an overall strength and conditioning program, but they're better used as something to augment a strength and conditioning program and not as a primary function.   When those male hormones really kick in, there can be some amazing changes. 

2020MOM, My son (also a 2020) has strengthened his arm over the last several years with long toss.  Together with a consistent pitching coach that focuses on mechanics and a plyometric style workout, he has increased his velocity.  And also, he has physically matured, so some of it is definitely growing and getting stronger.

Here is the type of long toss he has done the last several years.  http://www.jaegersports.com/Ar...th-and-Conditioning/

Welcome 2020MOM!

I have two boys playing college baseball now.  One (SS/RHP) throws 90s in his sleep.  The other (SS/2B) needed a lot of work to improve.

Driveline is a great program.  My boys also did the Texas Baseball Ranch and one spent time at the Florida Baseball Ranch.  Echoing the Rover, Wolforth is great.  I'd say Randy Sullivan in Florida is much more approachable (and a physical therapist).  The Elite Pitcher's Bootcamp is a nice weekend introduction to the Ranch's concepts.  Whether it's one of the Ranches or Driveline, their ideas have been tested. 

IMHO, a lot depends on what the kid is able to do once they're not at a training site.  A lot of coaches won't or don't subscribe to Driveline's or the TX/FL/AZ Ranch concepts and it makes training alone or at your home location pretty challenging.

You mentioned your son hitting the weight room for the first time this Fall.  I can't emphasize that enough, if done correctly.  He's got a lot of time at this stage to really build himself up.  My older guy trained at Cressey in Massachusetts; my younger guy at Sparta in California.  These were very focused training/conditioning programs optimized for the athlete (age, sport, etc.).  Conditioning done right will help build a player's body...and as a result in my sons' cases, help them throw harder. 

Hopefully he can find a great conditioning program, and a great velocity improvement program.  As with a lot of things, it's time and money.  But for a pitcher, particularly a young man like yours, it can be $ well spent.  Good luck!

My son (2015) was 5'2 and maybe 110 as a freshman...throwing low 70's.  He never lifted....just threw long toss...ALOT!!   He added 5-6mph a year and was throwing 89-90 his senior year.  He has lifted since he got to college....but still doesn't do anything other than long toss as far as a throwing routine.  He's 91-92 now. 

Son is on a program in college that incorporates a lot of Baseball Ranch and some Driveline training methodologies.  I can say I'm a big believer. 

He worked with a local trainer in HS that trains lots of pro pitchers in the off season. He was in great shape but not a ton of velocity gain IMO  

In two months on campus this fall he jumped 4-5 mph. Says his arm has never felt better.  If you read some of their stuff some of this is mental too. Arm feels great allowing you to mentally throw with as much intent as possible. 

Good Luck

CaCo my son is 6'1" and a skinny 150 despite all he eats! 

Thank you for all the responses.  Our "gene pool" has some tall men on my side of the family...several at 6'3" but not so much on his Dad's side.  I appreciate all advice especially for conditioning.  We didn't want to push it too soon but now I can see we will probably need something more than what is available at his HS.

Driveline is a great program, and my son also works with the Texas Baseball Ranch.  A lot of similarities, and we worth with the Ranch since the academy he trains at works with and hosts TBR camps, so it works well.  I haven't found them to be unapproachable, however, pretty much the opposite in our experience.

Best of luck to your son, hope to hear more as he develops!

Truman posted:

Weighted balls are ok to use as part of an overall strength and conditioning program, but they're better used as something to augment a strength and conditioning program and not as a primary function.   When those male hormones really kick in, there can be some amazing changes. 

 Agree with Truman.  Weighted balls should be supplementary to strength & conditioning basics - squats, deadlifts, power cleans, plyometrics - as long as someone can show him how to safely and properly execute those movements.  Then, as he builds up a strength base, add in the weighted balls.

I see you are doing Jaeger-style long toss.  I'm a big believer in that for arm health.

I've never done a weighted ball program, but it's hard to argue with the results at Driveline.  The research they do at their facility is phenomenal.

2020Mom posted:

Fascinating book...read it last year.  I am interested in when your son began using the weighted balls for training and if he did it on his own or actually at the facility in Seattle.  It looks like none of their "onsite" training is geared for kids my son's age and it seems before doing this that supervision would be important.

He started right around the start of HS. He followed the Ranch program closely and then spent a month out at the Ranch during their summer program. He then moved to Driveline and did their "Remote" program for a couple of years. He actually went out to Seattle and trained there this summer before heading to college. 

I made a deal with my son a long time ago where I would support him financially with these programs as long as he worked hard at them, which he did so it was a great experience. Not all kids are willing to put the work into doing the things that it will take to play at the next level. A lot say they do, but never end up wanting to put in the work.

I'm grateful that he is much more informed kid on arm care, proper movement patterns and the effort it takes.

FrankJP posted:

Driveline is a great program, and my son also works with the Texas Baseball Ranch.  A lot of similarities, and we worth with the Ranch since the academy he trains at works with and hosts TBR camps, so it works well.  I haven't found them to be unapproachable, however, pretty much the opposite in our experience.

Best of luck to your son, hope to hear more as he develops!

The Ranch is great and all of the people there are awesome. My point about "approachable" was more about communicating remotely. Kyle and the Driveline team are great about answering tweets, emails and texts. I doubt too many people are just picking up the phone and calling Wolforth. It's not a knock on Wolforth at all, he's a fantastic coach and even better person. His family is incredible. 

Just wanted to clarify what I meant by that statement. 

I see you're from San Diego. At this point, no need to spend money to go anywhere.

There is a PC in Poway who has a stable of over 100 pro pitchers (many are cracking MLB) - most of whom have been with him since college or before. His goal is velo. Go, sit in his Back Yard, and see for yourself. (Right now the program is in full swing so your son may get a kick out of just watching the scene. At this point it's 7 days a week until the men begin heading off to ST.)

I could fill a page with what I think, but he'll explain it better - Jeager v. Weighted balls v bands, etc.. Let's just say he took my S in ninth grade who was low 70s, 5' 3" ish and 115, and turned him into a HS senior throwing 90 (5' 11", 140 as senior), with no injuries, lots of fun and mentoring (S is now retired and still keeps close touch). S was not an outlier result.

We spent five days a week during HS driving from downtown out to Poway (his program has a great physical training element [Hoefflins]), continued training whenever S was in town during college, and through his pro years.

Tremendous pro and college connections (every type of college, from JUCO through IVY league). My S had minimal showcase and travel ball exposure; just pitched in the Back Yard and the exposure came to him.

On top of that, as a person who cares about the kid (not just the baseball part), you'd be hard pressed to find a better mentor.

So, go see for yourself; doesn't matter which program is great (and there are many), unless your S bonds with the coach and wants to be there, there is no point.

Feel free to PM me for details, if you're interested.

My son has always been one of the hardest throwers in his age group,   he's thrown 82 recently as a 14 yr old 8th grader.   Our future high school pitching coach reached out to us when he heard we were going to attend his school next year and invited my son to do a weighted ball workout that he's been doing with his high school and travel team pitcher during the month of Dec and Jan.   Ill let you know how it goes,  its been tough to stay on program we seem to miss 1 or 2 day every week for 1 reason or another but I think its helping.   at a minimum it seems hes getting his arm in shape for the spring season about to start down here in Texas  like tomorrow.    It was interesting when coach pulled out the radar the other day and was getting times for every color ball the intensity really picked up.    Everyone complained of being sore the next day,  as an aside from a different thread I picked up a marc pro on ebay for about 1/2 cost of a new one and my son used it that night and was only kid the next day that was not sore.   

Please, no one take offense, BUT FOR HS FRESHMAN AND YOUNGER, STOP THE VELO OBSESSION!

I can't count the number of young pitchers I have seen who are throwing beyond what their body is prepared to take - with the resulting career ending or career retarding injuries (needing TJ or labrum and taking a year off as a Jr. Is a disaster).

Building velo is a process - a long process with incremental or no improvement for periods following by noticeable increases (notable being 2 - 3 mph over a six month period). Many times it's because the growth spurt knocks the coordination off and NOTHING - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - a PC can do can override that; moreover, trying to can lead to disaster. During puberty, the body development mostly drives the improvement; but during that time, dialing in decent mechanics, getting the kid to feel his body (so he's not just mechanically going through the motions) is critical; during this period, doing the correct PT will build up the body so it's prepared for the day when all parts are reasonably mature and ready to rock and roll.

Pulling out a radar gun on these kids is lunacy - because the kid pitches to the gun, exerting more effort which doesn't get any real velo and can lead to injury.

Put another way, no college coach cares, no scout cares, about what a 15 year old throws. This is a marathon and all too many treat it as a sprint - and have their kid sprinting a marathon is a recipe for disaster.

As the parent of a kid whose life dream was advancing to baseball's next level, it was a process with no fairy dust leading to success; it was hard, hard work for a long, long time with small improvements with no shortcuts. 

PATIENCE!

PS. I am speaking as one who is able to pontificate from the other side (post-baseball). I am simply trying to offer the lessons we learned - I was just as obsessed as most during those HS and even earlier years (I was the crazy one with a radar gun on 12 yr olds.) We didn't understand s**t going through the process; now, I understand it. Fortunately, I got S to a PC before he got hurt from my well-intentioned involvement.

Goosegg posted:

Please, no one take offense, BUT FOR HS FRESHMAN AND YOUNGER, STOP THE VELO OBSESSION!

I can't count the number of young pitchers I have seen who are throwing beyond what their body is prepared to take - with the resulting career ending or career retarding injuries (needing TJ or labrum and taking a year off as a Jr. Is a disaster).

Building velo is a process - a long process with incremental or no improvement for periods following by noticeable increases (notable being 2 - 3 mph over a six month period). Many times it's because the growth spurt knocks the coordination off and NOTHING - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - a PC can do can override that; moreover, trying to can lead to disaster. During puberty, the body development mostly drives the improvement; but during that time, dialing in decent mechanics, getting the kid to feel his body (so he's not just mechanically going through the motions) is critical; during this period, doing the correct PT will build up the body so it's prepared for the day when all parts are reasonably mature and ready to rock and roll.

Pulling out a radar gun on these kids is lunacy - because the kid pitches to the gun, exerting more effort which doesn't get any real velo and can lead to injury.

Put another way, no college coach cares, no scout cares, about what a 15 year old throws. This is a marathon and all too many treat it as a sprint - and have their kid sprinting a marathon is a recipe for disaster.

As the parent of a kid whose life dream was advancing to baseball's next level, it was a process with no fairy dust leading to success; it was hard, hard work for a long, long time with small improvements with no shortcuts. 

PATIENCE!

Thank you, Goose! I was cringing when I read this thread!

I'm not gonna come on here and bash the "velo" contingency, but I guarantee our latin friends in the DR are not doing  the weighted balls, ect.

It's about continuing to improve and maturation has a funny way of helping out in the process.

Do I believe in functional strength?   Yes, add that with mobility, athleticism and solid mechanics for young high school players!

After the high school level, the competition could care less about velocity because they'll simply make adjustments!