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Tom House wrote about this once but anyone ever experience a difference with a bite guard in?  Our team did a throwing program (long toss and exercises) in the fall.  My son had picked up a little velocity (not much) but on the last, based on something I had read here I think, I  had him do one of this last throws with an under armour bite guard in and he threw  4-5 mph faster then repeated it 4 times in a rose.  Not sure if it was real or placebo but the coaches thought it was interesting. 

2020.2023dad posted:

Tom House wrote about this once but anyone ever experience a difference with a bite guard in?  Our team did a throwing program (long toss and exercises) in the fall.  My son had picked up a little velocity (not much) but on the last, based on something I had read here I think, I  had him do one of this last throws with an under armour bite guard in and he threw  4-5 mph faster then repeated it 4 times in a rose.  Not sure if it was real or placebo but the coaches thought it was interesting. 

For 4-5 mph I think my son would be willing to wear a full football helmet on the mound!

Did anyone else on the team try it?

2019Dad posted:
2020.2023dad posted:

Tom House wrote about this once but anyone ever experience a difference with a bite guard in?  Our team did a throwing program (long toss and exercises) in the fall.  My son had picked up a little velocity (not much) but on the last, based on something I had read here I think, I  had him do one of this last throws with an under armour bite guard in and he threw  4-5 mph faster then repeated it 4 times in a rose.  Not sure if it was real or placebo but the coaches thought it was interesting. 

For 4-5 mph I think my son would be willing to wear a full football helmet on the mound!

Did anyone else on the team try it?

One kid showed up with his football mouth guard for the next practice, but all they did was hitting..LOL.  We have been indoors not using radar guns since that day..it was the last practice.  I will say that my kid probably was finally feeling healthy on that day after a very long season where he pitched and caught  a ton.   Can't wait to try it again in the spring.  

Also note this is 2023 going from mid sixties to just under 70.  Not a HS age kid going from 86 to 90.  

We were using this..http://www.bpathletics.com/under-armour-ua-armourbite-multi-sport-lower-mouthguard/?gclid=CjwKEAiA2abEBRCdx7PqqunM1CYSJABf3qvaD9xYzELnc96bnTG-6DAVf5kllSH5Wg4NIaF8-vYW-RoCa-zw_wcB 

My son has not showcased and will not until he hits some numbers we have in mind that would make it worth it.  He is closing in on the hitting end not so much with pitch velocity.  We have yet to try driveline but seriously considering the $400 deal.  Given the amount we have spent over the years...  I will certainly ask him to throw with his football mouthpiece in - that's free, what is there to lose?  In short we are willing to try about anything or at least entertain it.  Not mechanically though we have to keep focused on improving  mechanics and don't want to keep changing every time some questionable expert suggests something.  My son has not been recruited and likely will have to sell himself more than be recruited.  Will have to convince some team he will be the good soldier at the end of the bullpen, work hard and be a good teammate.  However even that will not be possible without a velocity increase.  He pitched in 17 games last year about 13 being starts.  He lost only one.  The last game of the year when he was completely exhausted from football workouts.  He IS that guy many talk about.  The guy who doesn't walk people (except when maybe you should), is a student of the game, throws mulitple pitches effectively and gets a lot of ground balls - he is a pitcher not a thrower.  You know who cares about all that travel ball success?  Him, his coaches, teammates and sometimes me.  That's where the list ends.  No college coach cares how well he does.  We had a total of one guy talk to us last year when he was 14 and its really questionable how legitimate that was.  VELOCITY IS KING.  Don't ever doubt that.  And you can't sit around and wait for it to happen magically.  That's all we 2020ish crowd are saying.  Nobody is ready to jump off a bridge cause their son doesn't have an early offer.  Nobody is wigging out and we sure as heck aren't naive.  If you think you can sit around and wait for it to magically happen then you are naive.  Hope is not a plan.  I would encourage all parents of 8th graders and freshmen to get the kid to work.  You are laying the foundation now for the improvements that will get your kid recruited later.  Do not be deceived into believing you are some how out of control and should just sit back and wait.

Not sure of any adults and I think one could debate when adult starts all day long.  

I agree that pre HS and for some kids even into HS they gain a lot of velocity simply through maturity. 

With that said there are lots of examples of post HS pitchers (college and pro) who gain velocity and some even significant amounts through hard work and specified training. 

2020dad posted:

My son has not showcased and will not until he hits some numbers we have in mind that would make it worth it.  He is closing in on the hitting end not so much with pitch velocity.  We have yet to try driveline but seriously considering the $400 deal.  Given the amount we have spent over the years...  I will certainly ask him to throw with his football mouthpiece in - that's free, what is there to lose?  In short we are willing to try about anything or at least entertain it.  Not mechanically though we have to keep focused on improving  mechanics and don't want to keep changing every time some questionable expert suggests something.  My son has not been recruited and likely will have to sell himself more than be recruited.  Will have to convince some team he will be the good soldier at the end of the bullpen, work hard and be a good teammate.  However even that will not be possible without a velocity increase.  He pitched in 17 games last year about 13 being starts.  He lost only one.  The last game of the year when he was completely exhausted from football workouts.  He IS that guy many talk about.  The guy who doesn't walk people (except when maybe you should), is a student of the game, throws mulitple pitches effectively and gets a lot of ground balls - he is a pitcher not a thrower.  You know who cares about all that travel ball success?  Him, his coaches, teammates and sometimes me.  That's where the list ends.  No college coach cares how well he does.  We had a total of one guy talk to us last year when he was 14 and its really questionable how legitimate that was.  VELOCITY IS KING.  Don't ever doubt that.  And you can't sit around and wait for it to happen magically.  That's all we 2020ish crowd are saying.  Nobody is ready to jump off a bridge cause their son doesn't have an early offer.  Nobody is wigging out and we sure as heck aren't naive.  If you think you can sit around and wait for it to magically happen then you are naive.  Hope is not a plan.  I would encourage all parents of 8th graders and freshmen to get the kid to work.  You are laying the foundation now for the improvements that will get your kid recruited later.  Do not be deceived into believing you are some how out of control and should just sit back and wait.

What was his velocity?  Aren't there pitchers in the Majors who aren't the fastest but have great movement?  I truly don't know the answer to that.

hsbaseball101 posted:

Most velocity gains I'm guessing is attributed to growth spurts.  A 5'11 170lb kid is probably going to throw way harder than his former 5'2 120lb self.  I'm curious if any adult has ever tried a velocity program without a previous injury that increased their velocity?  

I would echo that. My 2018,  has managed to sit where he topped the previous season with an average of 5lbs per year from Freshman to current Junior year at 6-2, 185.

Dadof3 posted:
2020dad posted:

My son has not showcased and will not until he hits some numbers we have in mind that would make it worth it.  He is closing in on the hitting end not so much with pitch velocity.  We have yet to try driveline but seriously considering the $400 deal.  Given the amount we have spent over the years...  I will certainly ask him to throw with his football mouthpiece in - that's free, what is there to lose?  In short we are willing to try about anything or at least entertain it.  Not mechanically though we have to keep focused on improving  mechanics and don't want to keep changing every time some questionable expert suggests something.  My son has not been recruited and likely will have to sell himself more than be recruited.  Will have to convince some team he will be the good soldier at the end of the bullpen, work hard and be a good teammate.  However even that will not be possible without a velocity increase.  He pitched in 17 games last year about 13 being starts.  He lost only one.  The last game of the year when he was completely exhausted from football workouts.  He IS that guy many talk about.  The guy who doesn't walk people (except when maybe you should), is a student of the game, throws mulitple pitches effectively and gets a lot of ground balls - he is a pitcher not a thrower.  You know who cares about all that travel ball success?  Him, his coaches, teammates and sometimes me.  That's where the list ends.  No college coach cares how well he does.  We had a total of one guy talk to us last year when he was 14 and its really questionable how legitimate that was.  VELOCITY IS KING.  Don't ever doubt that.  And you can't sit around and wait for it to happen magically.  That's all we 2020ish crowd are saying.  Nobody is ready to jump off a bridge cause their son doesn't have an early offer.  Nobody is wigging out and we sure as heck aren't naive.  If you think you can sit around and wait for it to magically happen then you are naive.  Hope is not a plan.  I would encourage all parents of 8th graders and freshmen to get the kid to work.  You are laying the foundation now for the improvements that will get your kid recruited later.  Do not be deceived into believing you are some how out of control and should just sit back and wait.

What was his velocity?  Aren't there pitchers in the Majors who aren't the fastest but have great movement?  I truly don't know the answer to that.

Dadof3 my observations, which should NOT be taken as fact, is that there are some MLB pitchers that hang out around the 88-92mph mark, and they do have deceptive movement, but they once upon a time threw a magic number to get them in the door, and that number isn't 85mph.  

There have been many stories on here about two pitchers.  One is crafty, lots of movement and can hit his spots, he peaks at 85mph.  Another pitcher is fairly wild, not always sure where his pitches will land, but he throws 92.  The 92 guy will be drafted higher and more sought after because many coaches have the belief that you can TEACH crafty...you can't TEACH 92.

Last edited by CaCO3Girl
 

The 92 guy will be drafted higher and more sought after because many coaches have the belief that you can TEACH crafty...you can't TEACH 92.

Respectfully disagree. We all read about guys on here who either through tweaking of mechanics or weighted baseballs or just plain working out/aging add speed to that fastball. I believe you can "teach 92" because it happens every year.

Got to cut out the whoa is me stuff because no one is going to recruit anyone's kid when their folks have that attitude.

justbaseball hasn't been around in a while, but as some are aware, he has 2 sons in professional ball.  You all should check out Tyler Davis, attended Washington State.

Tyler has 15 major accomplishments as a college player in his bio.

Did I mention that he didn't really add on velo until after he was drafted? I don't remember him hitting anywhere close to 90 out of HS, yet he was given a scholarship at a PAC 12 program.

Stop worrying about the velo, the height, the weight, do well in school, doors will open.

Most 9th graders unless they are studs, DO NOT GET RECRUITED.

SanDiegoRealist posted:
 

The 92 guy will be drafted higher and more sought after because many coaches have the belief that you can TEACH crafty...you can't TEACH 92.

Respectfully disagree. We all read about guys on here who either through tweaking of mechanics or weighted baseballs or just plain working out/aging add speed to that fastball. I believe you can "teach 92" because it happens every year.

It happens but it also depends on the body. Not everyone can gain the same.

A super lanky 6“4 guy who thows 85 might still get interest

Dominik85 posted:
A super lanky 6“4 guy who thows 85 might still get interest

PLENTY of bigger, lower velo guys get attention, sign Power 5 D1 and/or get drafted. Even RHPs. You've heard it here, pro ball can develop players and college usually prefers to have kids who can contribute sooner. Plenty of D1s have pitchers who may touch 90 but live below it and there are plenty from either side that are 85-88 and throw 4 pitches for strikes. 

Shoveit4Ks posted:
Dominik85 posted:
A super lanky 6“4 guy who thows 85 might still get interest

PLENTY of bigger, lower velo guys get attention, sign Power 5 D1 and/or get drafted. Even RHPs. You've heard it here, pro ball can develop players and college usually prefers to have kids who can contribute sooner. Plenty of D1s have pitchers who may touch 90 but live below it and there are plenty from either side that are 85-88 and throw 4 pitches for strikes. 

Preach!!!

Dadof3 posted:
2020dad posted:

My son has not showcased and will not until he hits some numbers we have in mind that would make it worth it.  He is closing in on the hitting end not so much with pitch velocity.  We have yet to try driveline but seriously considering the $400 deal.  Given the amount we have spent over the years...  I will certainly ask him to throw with his football mouthpiece in - that's free, what is there to lose?  In short we are willing to try about anything or at least entertain it.  Not mechanically though we have to keep focused on improving  mechanics and don't want to keep changing every time some questionable expert suggests something.  My son has not been recruited and likely will have to sell himself more than be recruited.  Will have to convince some team he will be the good soldier at the end of the bullpen, work hard and be a good teammate.  However even that will not be possible without a velocity increase.  He pitched in 17 games last year about 13 being starts.  He lost only one.  The last game of the year when he was completely exhausted from football workouts.  He IS that guy many talk about.  The guy who doesn't walk people (except when maybe you should), is a student of the game, throws mulitple pitches effectively and gets a lot of ground balls - he is a pitcher not a thrower.  You know who cares about all that travel ball success?  Him, his coaches, teammates and sometimes me.  That's where the list ends.  No college coach cares how well he does.  We had a total of one guy talk to us last year when he was 14 and its really questionable how legitimate that was.  VELOCITY IS KING.  Don't ever doubt that.  And you can't sit around and wait for it to happen magically.  That's all we 2020ish crowd are saying.  Nobody is ready to jump off a bridge cause their son doesn't have an early offer.  Nobody is wigging out and we sure as heck aren't naive.  If you think you can sit around and wait for it to magically happen then you are naive.  Hope is not a plan.  I would encourage all parents of 8th graders and freshmen to get the kid to work.  You are laying the foundation now for the improvements that will get your kid recruited later.  Do not be deceived into believing you are some how out of control and should just sit back and wait.

What was his velocity?  Aren't there pitchers in the Majors who aren't the fastest but have great movement?  I truly don't know the answer to that.

What is my son's velocity?  You can PM me.  It's not good.  If I wanted it advertised we would showcase!!  If you look up what is average at PG events for his age it is almost on the nose.  As for MLB...  what passes for slow is really really fast.  A guy who tops at 92 or 93 is considered that crafty pitcher.  Even Mark Buhrle topped at 92 or 93 (maybe not his last couple years) but CHOSE to throw in the 80's and let his cutter and curve work.  But when he needed to he could reach back and get that 92 which at that point looked like 97.  I think the list of guys who could not hit 90 ever who reached the major leagues could be counted on one hand.  Not even 100% sure there are any.  Great movement wins lower level games.  Maybe even college games, certainly lower level college games.  MLB?  Not so much.  

Shoveit4Ks posted:
Dominik85 posted:
A super lanky 6“4 guy who thows 85 might still get interest

PLENTY of bigger, lower velo guys get attention, sign Power 5 D1 and/or get drafted. Even RHPs. You've heard it here, pro ball can develop players and college usually prefers to have kids who can contribute sooner. Plenty of D1s have pitchers who may touch 90 but live below it and there are plenty from either side that are 85-88 and throw 4 pitches for strikes. 

We need to separate college from MLB.  This is 100% true.  There are a bunch of guys even D1 who aren't even capable of hitting 90.  I have said a million times on here it is a complete and total myth that everyone in D1 throws 90.  And 85 or 86 is that number I have said many times can get you there.  Not gonna pitch on sunday for a power 5 probably but some mid to low D1 will pick you up for sure if you are 85 and great pitchability.  

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