Skip to main content

roothog66 posted:

I think we sometimes get caught up in the whole "gotta hit 90" thing. In truth, there are a lot of D1 programs and not so many 90mph throwers that every school has a abundance of them. We visited two Mid-majors this weekend and watched their scrimmages. They are basically a week away from their first game. Both schools had radar displays. At school one, we didn't see their #1, but did see their #2 - #5 pitchers. None hit 90. Two of them, one a lefty, sat 82-83 and hit 85 a couple of times. The others all sat at around 85 and only a couple of them topped out at 87 and only a couple times each at that.

At school two, their #1 was a lefty sitting 90 and topping out at 92. This guy was the A-Sun pitcher of the year in 2016. However, the #2 was sitting 85, topping out at 87 twice over two innings and this guy was the pitcher of the year in the Cape Cod league last summer. He had great stuff and a very quick arm, but not a 90mph guy. The other pitchers, all freshmen and sophomores sat low-80's. 

After spreading them out over almost 300 D-1 schools, there aren't as many guys throwing 90 as you think. You can be a good D-1 pitcher without throwing 90+. 

I agree and would like to add, in my experience, while watching my "in state" SEC program go toe to toe with a top SEC program last season,  the difference was the in state had 3-90+ guys and the rest of the staff was 85-88 on average,  where the top program seemed to run freshman after freshman that were all mid 90 guys and never got to the starters.

 

I probably shouldn't have said what I did about guaranteed roster spots.  I just don't know how a competitive program can honestly do that.  I coached small college baseball for several years and never, not once, ever guaranteed a roster spot or anything else.  If someone I wasn't recruiting asked for one, I wouldn't even want that player.  How much confidence does a player have if he needs a guaranteed roster spot.  What if I guaranteed a roster spot to someone that became a cancer to the team?

Problem is, that is how I look at it and should know better that some might go about things much differently. So I'm sure there are some coaches that guarantee roster spots rather than have players earn it. Though I guess if a kid that was so good that I definitely wanted him and was only asking me to guarantee him a roster spot, I would have done that. Never remember anyone we were recruiting ever asking for any guarantees.  Then again maybe they did and it went in one ear and out the other.  When we really wanted someone, we would work with admissions, find grants and non athletic money, put together an offer, do everything possible to get him, so it was obvious he was going to at the very least be on the roster. But I wouldn't expect him to ask for a guaranteed spot and would hope he wants much more than a guaranteed roster spot.

2020Mom posted:

... I have read about the Driveline program where they use weighted balls and have heard differing opinions.  Any experience with any of your kids doing this and if so, at what age?  Other ideas or ways you know pitchers have increased velocity? ...

I am a very strong booster of the Driveline Program. My son was a devoted participant in Kyle's early iterations of the program, beginning his 13U summer when coming back from a "Little League" elbow case. He stayed with it through high school and was an extremely effective pitcher in HS. He was up to 87 off the mound by mid Senior season at (then) 5'7" 160 and surrendered one ER in his last HS season. His bat and speed got him recruited as a CF, but he still uses some of the Driveline concepts and is a +arm in the OF.

That said, and in answering your second question: the single best thing a developing HS-aged player can do for any aspect of their athletic performance, including throwing velocity, is lift heavy, correctly, under authentic supervision. Heavy is self explanatory. But lifting correctly while receiving real guidance on form, movement, and progression cannot be had just anywhere or from anyone selling memberships at the local big box gym. Add the benefits of a fully-researched, iterative throwing program and the results are synergistic.

PG,

I have great respect for your input and experiences.  I will respectfully add my two cents again around guaranteed roster spots...

My boys want to be starters on their teams.  Not roster spot holders. 

At no time did we encounter a coach who committed to my boys any playing time or position, only a chance to compete for such in the Spring.  Every coach that offered a guaranteed Spring roster spot did that conditionally, i.e., for the first Spring only, and presuming appropriate academic, athletic and off the field behavior. 

And the coaches that offered scholarships, or preferred walk on status, or guaranteed Spring roster spots, etc., did so after seeing my boys play, i.e., the kids "earned" it during the recruiting process.  And yes, it could be taken away if the players don't do the appropriate academic, athletic, and off the field work.

We did encounter many coaches recruiting kids for Fall rosters and Fall tryouts.  My boys received recruiting phone calls, emails, texts, etc., from coaches as did my boys' peers.  Some coaches were transparent about this.  Some weren't.  Ultimately just recruiting them to come to college to tryout in the Fall.  We certainly had coaches ask my boys "are you afraid of competition?".

My boys aren't afraid of competition.  They just want to play college baseball at a school that fits academically and athletically.

IMHO, if a coach is actively recruiting a player, that should be for the first Spring roster.  Nothing more, nothing less.  If a player is not recruited and just goes to an open Fall tryout, then let the chips fall where they may.

Recruiting players for a Fall roster only and Fall tryout is fine by me if the coach is 100% transparent that they are doing this.  As I mentioned, our local D2 had over 90 players out this Fall.  Most, but not all, of these players had been recruited by the coaching staff.

Some coaches are incented by admissions to bring as many kids as possible in the door.  Some coaches don't want to make any commitments until after everyone tries out in the Fall. Understanding that as a prospective college player / parent is a very important part of the process IMO.

tres_arboles posted:
TPM posted:

justbaseball hasn't been around in a while, but as some are aware, he has 2 sons in professional ball.  You all should check out Tyler Davis, attended Washington State.

 

University of Washington. Confusing the two is somewhat like confusing Wake and Clemson. 

You are right, lost my mind posting so late at night!  

No confusion distinguishing between wake and clemson!

Last edited by TPM
tres_arboles posted:
2020Mom posted:

... I have read about the Driveline program where they use weighted balls and have heard differing opinions.  Any experience with any of your kids doing this and if so, at what age?  Other ideas or ways you know pitchers have increased velocity? ...

I am a very strong booster of the Driveline Program. My son was a devoted participant in Kyle's early iterations of the program, beginning his 13U summer when coming back from a "Little League" elbow case. He stayed with it through high school and was an extremely effective pitcher in HS. He was up to 87 off the mound by mid Senior season at (then) 5'7" 160 and surrendered one ER in his last HS season. His bat and speed got him recruited as a CF, but he still uses some of the Driveline concepts and is a +arm in the OF.

That said, and in answering your second question: the single best thing a developing HS-aged player can do for any aspect of their athletic performance, including throwing velocity, is lift heavy, correctly, under authentic supervision. Heavy is self explanatory. But lifting correctly while receiving real guidance on form, movement, and progression cannot be had just anywhere or from anyone selling memberships at the local big box gym. Add the benefits of a fully-researched, iterative throwing program and the results are synergistic.

I put up 895lbs in the big 3 lifts.  Let's just say I never got anywhere close to mid 80s.  My friends could barely curl 20lbs yet touched mid 80s.  Go figure.  

hsbaseball101 posted:
tres_arboles posted:
2020Mom posted:

... I have read about the Driveline program where they use weighted balls and have heard differing opinions.  Any experience with any of your kids doing this and if so, at what age?  Other ideas or ways you know pitchers have increased velocity? ...

I am a very strong booster of the Driveline Program. My son was a devoted participant in Kyle's early iterations of the program, beginning his 13U summer when coming back from a "Little League" elbow case. He stayed with it through high school and was an extremely effective pitcher in HS. He was up to 87 off the mound by mid Senior season at (then) 5'7" 160 and surrendered one ER in his last HS season. His bat and speed got him recruited as a CF, but he still uses some of the Driveline concepts and is a +arm in the OF.

That said, and in answering your second question: the single best thing a developing HS-aged player can do for any aspect of their athletic performance, including throwing velocity, is lift heavy, correctly, under authentic supervision. Heavy is self explanatory. But lifting correctly while receiving real guidance on form, movement, and progression cannot be had just anywhere or from anyone selling memberships at the local big box gym. Add the benefits of a fully-researched, iterative throwing program and the results are synergistic.

I put up 895lbs in the big 3 lifts.  Let's just say I never got anywhere close to mid 80s.  My friends could barely curl 20lbs yet touched mid 80s.  Go figure.  

Yeah, I've always looked at weight lifting as something that can help some pitchers, but not a guarantee. My 2018 started lifting weights early first semester, but an injury put a halt to that. So, basically, other than that one week, he's never lifted. The write ups on him always include "big, strong build." He is 6' 4" / 225 (was 235). He has huge arms and legs. Looks like he could lift a barn. However, in reality, he maxes out benching 120 lbs. with effort and only benches around 200 lb. max. He took the mound last night for the first time since Labor Day and hit 92 mph. So, you can either say he didn't need weight training or he would have hit a 100 if he'd bulked up.

Branson,

I understand and I wasn't referring to your boys.  I even know that some kids are guaranteed a roster spot by some college coaches.  For those coaches that has worked out well for... Fine.  

I get it... The kid knows he is getting a chance.  I could guarantee that every kid will get a chance.  Not sure why anyone needs to guarantee more than that, though I know some do.

I stand by what I mentioned earlier regarding guaranteed roster spots. Maybe not in every case, but I know there are some college coaches that have to reach a quota.  Enrollment is the thing, baseball brings them students.  I couldn't coach at one of those type colleges, but I don't really see anything wrong with it either.

Truth is, there is nothing wrong with roster spots being guaranteed. At DI I can't imagine it happening, but guess it could.  Anyway, if it happens and it works out well, good enough.  But what exactly does a guaranteed roster spot really mean?  Is it spelled out in writing?

I have to admit, I know very little about guaranteed roster spots.  I have no experience with that.  I only know it happens, but there are players with baseball scholarships that sometimes don't make the roster.  Anyway, if it sounds like I'm arguing, I'm not.  I'm sure you know much more than I do about guaranteed roster spots.  All I have is an opinion on the subject.

tres_arboles posted:
2020Mom posted:

... I have read about the Driveline program where they use weighted balls and have heard differing opinions.  Any experience with any of your kids doing this and if so, at what age?  Other ideas or ways you know pitchers have increased velocity? ...

I am a very strong booster of the Driveline Program. My son was a devoted participant in Kyle's early iterations of the program, beginning his 13U summer when coming back from a "Little League" elbow case. He stayed with it through high school and was an extremely effective pitcher in HS. He was up to 87 off the mound by mid Senior season at (then) 5'7" 160 and surrendered one ER in his last HS season. His bat and speed got him recruited as a CF, but he still uses some of the Driveline concepts and is a +arm in the OF.

That said, and in answering your second question: the single best thing a developing HS-aged player can do for any aspect of their athletic performance, including throwing velocity, is lift heavy, correctly, under authentic supervision. Heavy is self explanatory. But lifting correctly while receiving real guidance on form, movement, and progression cannot be had just anywhere or from anyone selling memberships at the local big box gym. Add the benefits of a fully-researched, iterative throwing program and the results are synergistic.

Thank you Tres. I appreciate the advice. 

BackstopDad32 posted:

There are D1 schools (mainly private) who have generous institional merit or need based aid for the right student. I have seen it not unusual for them to offer roster spots in lieu of scholarship money that they would normally offer. All about stretching those 11.7 as far as possible. 

That would be our case were he good enough. Honestly we would get way more aid than any baseball scholarship they would offer. And since in their infinite wisdom NCAA says you can't combine the two we would have to decline the scholarship and take the aid. I think that is where guaranteed spots with no scholarship come to play. 

PGStaff posted:

Branson,

I understand and I wasn't referring to your boys.  I even know that some kids are guaranteed a roster spot by some college coaches.  For those coaches that has worked out well for... Fine.  

I get it... The kid knows he is getting a chance.  I could guarantee that every kid will get a chance.  Not sure why anyone needs to guarantee more than that, though I know some do.

I stand by what I mentioned earlier regarding guaranteed roster spots. Maybe not in every case, but I know there are some college coaches that have to reach a quota.  Enrollment is the thing, baseball brings them students.  I couldn't coach at one of those type colleges, but I don't really see anything wrong with it either.

Truth is, there is nothing wrong with roster spots being guaranteed. At DI I can't imagine it happening, but guess it could.  Anyway, if it happens and it works out well, good enough.  But what exactly does a guaranteed roster spot really mean?  Is it spelled out in writing?

I have to admit, I know very little about guaranteed roster spots.  I have no experience with that.  I only know it happens, but there are players with baseball scholarships that sometimes don't make the roster.  Anyway, if it sounds like I'm arguing, I'm not.  I'm sure you know much more than I do about guaranteed roster spots.  All I have is an opinion on the subject.

PG is definitely correct in stating that there are quotas that have to be met.  When your son shows up and there are a lot morewalk on  recruits than expected, now you know why. 

Last edited by TPM

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×