What are the real numbers?

Some folks treat scholarship offers like salary info - not polite to ask - and cannot rely on thet answers given.

It is truly not possible to give you sweeping generalizations, for a host of reasons.

First of all, not all programs have the full 11.7 maximum budgeted.

Secondly, other than complying with the 25% minimum rule and the 27 player maximum rule, the schools have complete freedom as to how to allocate funds, so you can get as many answers as there are different head coaches.

Thirdly, some programs' practices are skewed by the extent to which non-baseball moneys are readily available, e.g., in FL and GA where Hope Scholarships and Bright Futures money can cover an awful lot of the college bill even before baseball money comes into play.

Fourth, the higher the level of program, the lower the ceiling will often be on offers. When everyone and his brother is trying to get recruited there, they don't have to throw big bucks at you if bachelor # 2 is just as good and costs them less (i.e., leaves them more of their budget for use on other players).

Subject to those qualifications, my experience is along these lines:

Pitchers: Big time studs projected as weekend starters tend to run 60-80%. Truly exceptional cases can get 90%. In the very rare case where the program is competing against a pro offer, you might see 100% on the table, but not at the NLI stage, usually after the draft. Other pitchers might get anything in the 25-60% range.

Offensive players: Depending on their position and how well they swing it, anywhere from 25% on up. Above 60% is rare for a non-pitcher in my experience, though certainly not unheard of.

I have had three sons play college ball and never once did I concern myself with "the other guy---all that mattered was did my kid get what he wanted but then I am " oldschool

quote:

I know the math with 27 rostered kids dividing 11.7 (if funded fully), but what are you all seeing from D1 schools? I know it matters who they are and what level they play. What are the true numbers you are seeing for pitchers, middle infield and catchers. My son is a middle infielder, and we are hearing a broad range of boasting about the size of offers.

There have been enough conversations on this particular subject to warrant a wing at the library. You might want to research the archives as I'm not really sure of your motive in asking this way?

As you know the minimum amount is 25% and that's a really good baseball offer these days. Quote, unquote "full rides" are likely few and far between.
More can go for starting pitching, a stud shortstop and or big bats but there isn't any set formula by position. Thus, I don't think you will garner any definitive information this way. And yes, "Boasting" is one way of describing much of the talk about the amount of ones "offer." A truer term may be "embellishment."

In my world I would suggest to you that an offer covering "Tuition" would be an outstanding offer for one to hope for! If the school really needs a MIF at the time your son is recruited and they are flush in funds, then your son may fare better.

Yes - I do understand your post, but thought there might be some straightforward people on a blog where anonymity is pretty high and you don't have a lot to gain by exagerating and you are not insulted because nobody knows you. I'm sure that a lot of people would like to have some general input and at least hear thoughts on the subject.

Midlo - That is exactly what I was hoping to get from the discussion. Thank you for it. We have some pretty strong baseball in out area, so I have seen and contempleted most of the variable, but I know that there are a lot of dynamics. Again, thank you for the input.

TR - Thanks and congrats on your kids playing ball. There is value in knowing the general guidelines for offers. I don't care what another kid gets, but I do care about the ranges. I believe it is essential in the art of negotiation. College is expensive. so I will do all I can to get all the money I can AFTER all else is considered. If a MIF can "generally" get 25-50%, I will want to be at the top of that range if my son fits that program and their need.

There are also kids getting academic and financial money where the parents would like you to think they are getting baseball money.

MIF - keep pushing this thread. I think it is a great one and will garner some real data once it has some time to gain interest from the general participants.

Thanks for the input on the subject. Consider the comments read! The numbers that all of you have commented are about what I hear. I would still like to hear some actual recent experiences.

quote:

Originally posted by gappower:
Yes - I do understand your post, but thought there might be some straightforward people on a blog where anonymity is pretty high and you don't have a lot to gain by exagerating and you are not insulted because nobody knows you. I'm sure that a lot of people would like to have some general input and at least hear thoughts on the subject.

Midlo - That is exactly what I was hoping to get from the discussion. Thank you for it. We have some pretty strong baseball in out area, so I have seen and contempleted most of the variable, but I know that there are a lot of dynamics. Again, thank you for the input.

May want to do some editing... Just sayin'

2016 - Thanks for your concern, but I operate from a phone a lot and the fingers are pretty large. I trust that most people probably understood.

academic money is now a huge factor in the overall picture

My response was somewhat tongue -in -cheek. I have nothing to hide as son is going to West Point so it is public knowledge what the cost will be.

Our experience in the recruiting world mirrors Midlo's numbers.

I also know that many times (all the time?) when you hear that a player got a "full ride" it includes academic money.

Knowledge is power so I hope you get the info you are looking for.

quote:

I will do all I can to get all the money I can AFTER all else is considered. If a MIF can "generally" get 25-50%, I will want to be at the top of that range if my son fits that program and their need.

gappower,
While I understand where you are coming from, to get to the core, this is not about "you" or "us" as "parents."
College baseball is demanding. At the DI level, it is very demanding. Build in a scholarship/larger scholarship and even more expectations are created.
All the money that "I" as a parent can get has the very strong potential to increase the expectations,pressures, demands and production for your son...and he is the one who will need to perform for you to "get what you want."
College baseball can be a demanding business. The more $$$$ you "want," the greater the chance you increase the results which are expected.
Remember, the $$$$ will be for one year, in most situations. It seems as if there is an ever increasing transfer out of DI positions during and after one year, some of the player choosing and some not.
Again, I understand college is expensive and scholarship money is desirable.Baseball $$$$ can be highly elusive.
The contrast is that in many programs, there likely will be a coach or coaching staff where your son will be expected to perform and "earn" every $$$$ "you" want.

Please excuse me if this comes off a bit snotty, because I am going to do my best.

My post had these words..."I will do all I can to get all the money I can AFTER all else is considered." You will note that the word "after" is emphasized.

My son wants to play D1 baseball and have the chance to be recruited as a junior in college. He really wants to go to college. He has been told by many people who I do not pay money that he has the skills. He is also very aware of the difficulty and probability.

I want to do all I can to help him acheive his dreams. I know that I am not the one playing baseball. All of this is a great learning experience for a young person and young adult. My son has played baseball for a long time. My son has NOT negotiated contracts. That, in my opinion, is a place where a parent needs to be involved. Hence the word "I".

My son wanted a car when he turned 16. I bought him a very nice car 4 months before his 16th birthday and explained all the additional responsibility that came with that car. If he keeps on his current pace, he will likely be able to get into most high academic schools based only on academics. He stays out of trouble, plays 2 sports, and I have never had to ask him to do his homework. Maybe we have a different approach to parenting, but I LOVE watching my son rise to difficult challenges. It bolsters his confidence and will make him a better man. Should I have told him that he cannot have the car, because living up to the additional responsibility would be too tough for him? Maybe in California.

This is just one example of how I believe these kids can evolve, because they are blessed with baseball skill and have worked extremely hard to hone that skill. These challenges will certainly not stop when they are done with baseball. When the time comes for him to leave baseball behind, I want him to be strong. Yes I did say "I", because I am the parent.

In the end, he might even learn a valuable lesson about how to negotiate a contract. Maybe he will be a lawyer. Either way, he will earn whatever he gets.

While all the "old sage" baseball advice is nice, we should now return to the discussion. If you don't want to provide data to the discussion, then let it die. I'm pretty sure mifdaddy doesn't give a poo about my parenting philosophy...

Yeah...it would be nice to get some answers. Maybe we can all agree that we are all concerned for our kids.

Hmmm, let's see.
gap is from NC and has 8 posts.
mif is from NC and has 3 posts.
Both are looking for the same information and appear to enjoy being "snotty" with any "old timers" who don't provide data.
Lesson learned here for sure: Don't get in the way of a parent of a player "blessed with baseball skill and have worked extremely hard to hone that skill" when that poster is in search of the scholarship $$$ they have earned(before ever stepping on a college field) and have a "right" to receive, apparently.

quote:

I believe it is essential in the art of negotiation.

If your son is recruited by a four year school, you will likely discover that there may not be much negotiating. If you appear to be a major bump in the road, they will move on to the next of many players on their list.

Aren't you two the same, did you change names after the first post?

I'm not sure when my post was "snotty" at all. We also joined on the same day, but don't paint me with the gappower brush.

Here's something to consider....your sons if they are lucky enough to play D1 may simply be offered a roster spot. There are at least 7 more guys on a team that don't athletic money and at many of the top programs many less that that 28 actually get athletic money.

I have found that if they can do well in school they become desirable to programs at schools that can offer great academic dollars and save the athletic dollars for the pitchers and guys who don't have the grades.

Academic dollars = 4 years
Athletic = 1 year

Also, by the way, it would be nice if when you are brand spanking new to the board you start off a little less abrasive gappower.

You guys are pretty fascinating!

Here's the deal, doesn't really matter to me whether 'anonymous' posters tell you what their kids got or not. I'll tell you this...2 sons, both in Pac 10/12, both with multiple offers...were offered as low as 0% and and high as 100%. Neither took the 0% and neither took the 100%. The 'best fit' is not always the most $$ (which you'll see talked about a lot on this board if you are interested in learning something from others willing to share their stories).

The reasons for each percentage offer my sons were offered are somewhat clearer to me in retrospect, but even if I outlined each offer they received between the two of them...they wouldn't mean much to you and your situation and I doubt you could translate them to any parallel for your own sons.

The answer, for each player, is unique to him and the schools offering. You will figure it out if/when its time and you are not likely to get more $$ by negotiating for your son and even less if you flash that fancy car you bought him in the coaches' faces...whether you taught your boy something 'good' in life or not.

quote:

Originally posted by gappower:
2016 - Thanks for your concern, but I operate from a phone a lot and the fingers are pretty large. I trust that most people probably understood.

FINKLE IS EICHORN!... EICHORN IS FINKLE!

When i said edit, take a closer look at your first post. (you answered in first person... for a response given to MIF).

I caught that too!

Who said anything about this being a negotiation?

I can see how it might be of some value to have a sense of the range that tends to be offered to players of various levels of priority on a roster; and, I think MidloDad did about as well as one can to generalize about the available ranges. However, if you think that that knowledge is going to position you to negotiate on your son's behalf; I'm afraid you're setting him up for disappointment.

A college head coach has an extremely tight scholarship budget available to him; and he has to work very hard to try to divide it among players on the existing roster as well as recruits. Because existing players are known entities, they tend to carry less risk than recruits; and they tend to get taken care of first. That leaves a certain amount to be offered to recruits.

This causes the coach to come to the discussion with the recruited player with a fairly well-defined amount of money to offer. If you find it acceptable, you take it. If not, you need to have at least one alternative available to you that is acceptable.

It's a zero-sum game from the coach's perspective. If he raises his offer to a recruited player, he has to lessen the amount provided to another player or players; whether existing or recruited. This and all of the variables and considerations he is trying to reconcile create a pretty inflexible position for him.

One more thing: The parent who comes to the college scholarship discussion as though he is negotiating a professional contract runs a very real risk of being considered a problem parent if the player accepts. A coach's concern over this issue threatens to make him even more intransigent than he might be, otherwise.

To answer to an extent the original question, my experience, more from talking to coaches and players' parents, is that a good rule of thumb is that money goes "up the middle"-catcher, pitchers, MIF, Centerfield, with pitchers naturally being the area of concentration. First baseman often aren't recruited-teams take a guy that can hit and teach him, and third basemen are often shortstops moved over, or pitchers that didn't quite light it up on the mound but have a stick, or a converted outfielder. (My only direct hands on experience was my LHP son, who was offered roughly 70% projected as a starting pitcher). I hope this helps.

Thanks to those who stuck to the discussion! If they get an early offer from a smaller D1 and that school tells you to take your time, do they usually hold the offer if the kid continues to progress? Makes sense to me. Has anyone had an early first offer that went up as they got older?

quote:

Has anyone had an early first offer that went up as they got older?

Nope, not here.

I have heard of coaches giving offers where they explained it will be X% in year-1 and we intend to make in Y% in year-2 and 3. That is usually a 'balancing the books' issue.

Sorry, let me clarify. Sophomore in high school gets an offer and the coach tells him that the offer is open until he makes his decision. The coach also says that the offer can increase in the time ahead if they see him play and he progresses.

Has anyone seen an offer as a sophomore increase as they get closer to decision time?

do not understand s coach making that offer to a hs soph

Offers to sophomores can increase... They can also decrease... In fact, they can disappear.

An offer that is "open"? Is that really an offer? How can someone make a verbal commitment based on that?

since the boy is a soph the "offer" is merely words at this time.

PGstaff..."open" means that they said there is no pressure to decide or expiration date. They made an athletic financial offer, estimated the academic contribution, and said that they wanted to be his first college offer. They told him to take his time and not worry about it going away.

As I understand it, an "offer" at any age is only a bunch of words until they sign. I was wondering if anyone has actually had an offer increase. I have certainly heard of them going away!

quote:

I was wondering if anyone has actually had an offer increase.

PGStaff told you yes, it could and does happen...therefore it must be possible.

Seems like a kind of silly question to ponder at this point though? Either it will happen, or it won't. Coaches' decision, not yours.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record......I told my son when he was in high school that we were not going to pay 50K/yr for him to play college baseball and that he better work hard to have a high GPA so that he would be eligible for academic money.

He needed no incentive to work hard @ baseball but a little nudge for academics was helpful. He did get the Presidents scholarship @ his college for those grades/SAT's. But he also got athletic money, making his private college very affordable. He has continued to maintain over a 3.2 GPA for his academic money
( every thing has strings attached).

Unless your son is a projected high round draft pick you don't have too much leverage these days. If he ends up fielding multiple offers maybe you can negotiate. Big maybe! Wait and see how it plays out.

Great advice CaBB!

quote:

mifdaddy said....I was wondering if anyone has actually had an offer increase. I have certainly heard of them going away!

Yes. We had both. Son is a RHP. We had a school make and initial open offer 25% before senior year, and then increase it to 50% six weeks later with a deadline. We did not negotiate the increase, they offered it.

Our offer would be significantly different than your son's offer experience IMHO. I tend to agree with others on the board that your son's offer while very complimentary lacks substance because it is not actionable. Nobody could do anything about it even if they wanted to. Besides, the coach has no idea whatsoever what his budget or baseball needs will be in 12 months. Your son is presumably just getting started with his recruiting efforts. In my mind this would be like two kids getting married after their first date.

I would have your son thank the coach for his offer, and tell him that he will keep in touch with him as you move forward with the recruiting process. I would continue to look at a broad range of options for your son, and then let him choose the path, and program that is right for him.

Best of luck!

PS...Ditto. That is great advice CaBB!

Although I've never witnessed the sort of "expanding offer" you describe, mifdaddy, if you think about it, there are at least a couple of factors that could lead to a coach saying that.

First, any player who has attracted an offer during his sophomore year is probably viewed by the coaches as being good enough that he can be given such an open-ended offer. In other words, he's good enough to be wanted virtually regardless of the team's roster situation between the time the offer is extended and the signing date.

Additionally, coaches are realists; and they know that their circumstances can change sufficiently that some dollars can get freed up along the way. After all, there are two signing classes between the sophomore's offer and his signing date. For a host of reasons, players or recruits who are known today can evaporate from the picture.

Since the early offers tend to get extended to exceptional players, it stands to reason that the coach would hedge his offer amount some initially and indicate generally that more could become available down the road.

As others here have indicated, a lot can change in a couple of years; on both sides. With a change can come a revision in the original offer in either direction.

It wouldn't hurt to ask the coach if he's able to cite examples of having been able to have done this in the past; or, if not, what circumstances might lead to such an increase in the offer.

Congratulations to your son and best wishes to him!

Thanks for the reply without the attitude, Prepster.