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What exactly distinguishes "recruited" from "non-recruited"?

SandmanSandman500+ posts
This thread got me wondering... I already posted my questions in that thread, but then later thought it might be better as its own thread.

I understand that this process likely varies greatly for each player so I'm not expecting any earth-shattering pinpoint indicator that "Yes, once you pass #n, you are NOW definitely a recruit and can feel a little more comfortable that you're not likely just showing up to a cattle-call tryout in the fall" Wink But in general, how far along the communication/exposure/interest timeline would a player have had to progress before being considered "recruited" and perhaps more comfortable that there's a spot on the team for him?

For example, some of these below are more obvious than others as to whether or not the player is being "recruited" and my son hasn't progressed through all of these either. I understand that some of these might not even be common; I'm just looking for general guidelines:

1. Reply to player-initiated email(s) with some compliments and a "Let's keep in touch".
2. Initial contact by coach (not player), perhaps asking for schedules.
3. Invitation to the team's baseball camp(s).
4. Player is taken aside by coach at/after camp for brief personal evaluation and compliments.
5. Coach goes to see player at a showcase/camp (not on his campus).
6. Coach comes to see player at his high school, summer or fall game(s).
7. Invited for UNofficial visit.
8. Invited to private workout with coach and/or staff.
9. Invited for official visit.
10. Told there'll be a "chance to be a contributor" (IOW, invited to a TRYOUT?).
11. Mention that the program also has a JV team, but with no promise that player would be placed there or varsity or either ("everyone competes for spots").
12. "Promised" (in words only, no NLI) that player will make varsity.
13. Promised that player will immediately start on varsity.
14. Signs a NLI and offered an athletic scholarship. (I understand that this does not apply in D3.) [Side questions: (a) Do an NLI and athletic scholarship always go hand-in-hand or can there be one without the other? (b) Are these really just for pitchers and immediate-impact projected starters? Without these though, all of the risk would seem to be on the player: they have to apply, get accepted, show up, and could end up getting cut (which sounds very similar to D3). With these, the coach shares some of that risk.]
15. What else?

I realize that not all recruiting paths progress through most or all of these steps. What other steps are there and which are better indicators of sincere interest?

Thank you.
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S SwampboyHSBBWeb Administrator
Sandman,
Not sure exactly what you're asking.

The NCAA's definition of "recruited" is satisfied by any of the following:
--If they provide the prospect with an official visit.
--If they have an off-campus contact with the prospect or the prospect’s parents or legal guardians.
--If they offer the prospect a National Letter of Intent or an athletic scholarship agreement.
--If they initiate a telephone conversation with the prospect or his parents or legal guardians more than one time.

If, however, you're asking what indicates a school truly wants a player, I'd go with the simplest answer: when they say so.

So many parents over-analyze coach communications and try to infer the between-the-lines significance. This effort is nearly always wasted. Coaches are neither shy nor subtle. When they decide they want a player, they go after him quickly and unambiguously. Any other communication from coaches is designed to a) promote camps, b) learn more about a potential prospect's ability or interest, or c) keep a "b" list prospect on the hook while they recruit higher priority prospects.

From my limited experience, a phone call to the player (not the parent), asking him to make an unofficial visit and meet the head coach in a non-camp, non-group setting is the best predictor of a pending offer.
SandmanSandman500+ posts
Actually Swampboy, you ARE pretty sure what I'm asking. Wink Thank you. I wasn't aware the NCAA had such a definition.

But you're right, I was also looking for how to better understand true interest.

How about a concrete example, leaving out school name?
- Son emailed coach in summer, expressing interest.
- Coach replied, complimenting his videos and invited him to camp.
- Son attended camp. Coach kept him after for 15-min or so private discussion, at which he was asked to contact coach end of Sept. to come back for a 1-on-1 workout with him.
- Son attended private workout, but coach was called away that morning to a staff meeting (hmm???). Son worked out with 3 assistants instead, one of which is the infield coach (son's position).
- Son corresponded through email with coach, asking where he stood.
- Coach said he "definitely feels he can play at this level" and "would love to have him".
- Son asked if he'd consider an overnight official visit.
- Coach said "definitely" and they're now planning a date.
* Note: all correspondence has been via email, no phone calls either way yet. Is that a sign of less interest than phone calls or just a more convenient communication method?

So we feel like the interest is sincere. Adding to our confusion/apprehension though is that this school also carries a JV team (and all the reading I've done here and elsewhere about how schools often carry one just to bring in more students, but with little/no chance of ever getting onto the varsity team). However, I can also see the merit in a JV team - that instead of riding the pine for a year or two on varsity, you're actually playing, getting at-bats vs. live pitching in games. But, you're not practicing with the varsity team.
Last edited by Sandman
floridafanfloridafan5,000+ posts
I can not imagine a coach extending an Official Vist offer to a player expected to play JV. I know folks have expressed some concern over "private" work outs, but I believe that it depends on the classification. My guy took infield with the team prior to signing with a D-2.

If you expect to play Varsity ball I would steer clear of ANY JV offers.

It sounds like your son has sincere interest, but it also sounds as though your player may not be the only one being recruited to fill that spot, and may be the 2nd choice. The coach may be waiting to see what another player does, so he is clear what resources he may have available to extend an offer to your son.
Last edited by floridafan
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Sandman:
Actually Swampboy, you ARE pretty sure what I'm asking. Wink Thank you. I wasn't aware the NCAA had such a definition.

But you're right, I was also looking for how to better understand true interest.

How about a concrete example, leaving out school name?
- Son emailed coach in summer, expressing interest.
- Coach replied, complimenting his videos and invited him to camp.
- Son attended camp. Coach kept him after for 15-min or so private discussion, at which he was asked to contact coach end of Sept. to come back for a 1-on-1 workout with him.
- Son attended private workout, but coach was called away that morning to a staff meeting (hmm???). Son worked out with 3 assistants instead, one of which is the infield coach (son's position).
- Son corresponded through email with coach, asking where he stood.
- Coach said he "definitely feels he can play at this level" and "would love to have him".
- Son asked if he'd consider an overnight official visit.
- Coach said "definitely" and they're now planning a date.
* Note: all correspondence has been via email, no phone calls either way yet. Is that a sign of less interest than phone calls or just a more convenient communication method?

So we feel like the interest is sincere. Adding to our confusion/apprehension though is that this school also carries a JV team (and all the reading I've done here and elsewhere about how schools often carry one just to bring in more students, but with little/no chance of ever getting onto the varsity team). However, I can also see the merit in a JV team - that instead of riding the pine for a year or two on varsity, you're actually playing, getting at-bats vs. live pitching in games. But, you're not practicing with the varsity team.


I think that Swampboy gave you a great answer to what you were looking for.
It's pretty obvious to me that there is true interest in your son from these coaches, not sure what else there is to say.
Just don't put all of your eggs in one basket, keep searching for programs that may be good a good fit for your son and keep trying to generate interest from other programs by getting seen.
SandmanSandman500+ posts
Thanks for your input TPM. I understand that nothing is guaranteed in college baseball, especially if you're considering D1/D2 and not getting athletic scholarship money (which I've heard is mostly for pitchers?) or you're going to a D3, in which everyone essentially is trying out in the fall.

But I've also read things like "recruited walk-ons are more likely to make the team in the fall" than "out-of-nowhere/uninivited" walk-ons. So I'm just trying to understand when exactly one might be considered "recruited".

The existence of a JV team only adds to the confusion and risk though, in that one might FEEL recruited, yet show up and be placed on the JV team for one or more seasons. If it were a D2 school that didn't have a JV team, then it would be much clearer that the coach actually wants you because he only has one [varsity] team on which to place you. Of course, like a D3 that doesn't have a JV team, you could just be cut in the fall. But again, that would seem less likely if one were "recruited", no?

Does that make more sense where I'm coming from?

Thank you.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I don't know what to say, but IMO I think that too many folks try too hard to read into stuff they really don't need to. Part of the process should be feeling good about the interest, I think if one has to question it then there are warning signs.
If it doesn't feel right, then it probably is not right, that's the FIRST thing that came to son in recruiting.

The NCAA definition of being recruited was given to you by Swampboy, but I understand you not understanding what is between black and white.

IMO, recruited walk on at a program with a JV team really doesn't do much for me (if that is what you are saying here), I would like to know that my player is a serious recruit, no matter how good the program may be. For us that was an athletic scholarship for others it's academic.

You and your player have to decide which program best fits your needs, according to academics, program, finances, geography, etc.

Then you have to take that and be confidant that your son has th eability to make that team, or don't go there, that's just my opinion.
SandmanSandman500+ posts
Bingo! We have a winner!

IMO, recruited walk on at a program with a JV team really doesn't do much for me (if that is what you are saying here), I would like to know that my player is a serious recruit, no matter how good the program may be. For us that was an athletic scholarship for others it's academic.

Is it considered too forward or in bad taste for the recruit (or parent) to bring up the possibility of an athletic scholarship? Or is it more polite/common to just wait and see if the coach offers it? I mean, if the coach envisions the player on his varsity team, he might be more willing to back it up with some money. In lieu of that, you've hit the nail on the head with my concern.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Sandman:
D2 with a JV team also. I'd be happy to PM you more details, but I don't really want to come right out and share the school here publicly. I'm really not trying to disrespect the school or program. The coach does seem very likable and sincere. Not looking to burn any bridges.


I asked because I am not all that familiar with that type of program. With 9 scholarships to give, do they on JV teams?
If this is a place where your son may like to play, then you need to pursue, and if the recruiting is serious (at that point an invite for an OV) you can ask those questions. JMO.
BOFBOF10,000+ posts
Sandman,

I don't think a coach is going to be giving his precious scholarhips to populate the JV team. Makes no sense to me.

In the end after all is said your son is going to have to compete with the other kids on the squad. If he is as good or better he will play and if not he won't. Go watch them play or scrimmage and come to your own conclusion. This will give you a good idea where he stands.
SandmanSandman500+ posts
I completely agree BOF. The bottom line is that I'd be much less concerned without the presence of a JV team. The coach has shown interest and likely wouldn't waste his time recruiting players just to cut them. IOW, most of the over-recruiting I've heard about, in my limited experience anyway, is at the D3 level. But when you add in a JV team, sincere interest isn't as clear.

Appreciate the input folks.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Sandman:
I completely agree BOF. The bottom line is that I'd be much less concerned without the presence of a JV team. The coach has shown interest and likely wouldn't waste his time recruiting players just to cut them. IOW, most of the over-recruiting I've heard about, in my limited experience anyway, is at the D3 level. But when you add in a JV team, sincere interest isn't as clear.

Appreciate the input folks.


Sandman,
I kind of understand now, the team has a JV team so therefore there is confusion as to what the intentions might be in recruiting, V or JV squad.

I am going to be honest, me personally, I would stay away from a situation such as the one you have mentioned. JMO.
BOFBOF10,000+ posts
I think over recruiting tends to be program specific. You will find them in all divisions. The one thing you have to be aware of with D2 programs is that they can take D1 drop downs with no waiting, so at least out here on the West Coast you have programs with lots of these players. If you look at the rosters of the top D2’s out here there are a number of D1 drop downs. Most of the top D2’s in the west are populated with players who play for that program for two years or less.

Take a look at Sonoma State’s roster, ½ of the kids are from JC’s or D1 drop downs. Every fall there will be new kids showing up with considerable experience, likely taking key roles. It is one of the reasons for their success and everyone going there knows this is how they run things.

My experience with D3’s is the opposite. The top nationally ranked D3’s are typically recruiting high academic D1 athletes or ones that have fallen between the cracks. However my son’s coach has said they are only competing with 20% of the D3 schools, so there are lots of others schools that may be, like infielddad suggested, with cattle calls.

So the moral of the story is to know, as best you can, what type of program your son is going into.

Good Luck!

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