My son is a sophomore this year playing in 16u tournaments. I hear see how they do against high level pitching. What is the threshold of high level pitching at 16u . I understand there are some freaks out there that can hit low and maybe mid 90's . My question is where is the point you can say he does well against "high level pitching ".
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You'll probably get all kinds of answers, but in the end high-level pitching is pitching that gets good hitters out. I've seen guys hit 88-90 at 16u and get beat by relatively pedestrian hitters, and I've seen low-80s guys beat DI prospect filled teams.
Also, in 3+ years of 16u/17u/18u PG ball, I've personally seen two guys actually hit 90 in a game my son played in, and maybe 5-6 more total. That probably slightly under-represents the percentage of guys at that level who can do it, since I don't go out of my way to look for them even when I'm at LP, but 90 is definitely not the marker you want to be looking for as the dividing line for high level pitching.
Well I think that phrase is pretty general, depends on your listening audience and will always need some point of reference. It will likely mean something different if he is a JV player talking to the HS V coach as opposed to a V player talking to a D3 coach and, again, to a major D1 coach.
I guess the safe answer, knowing he is a soph playing 16U, is when he is having success against the better arms of the better travel teams in the country in 16u or underclass high profile events. If you are looking for numbers, I would say an underclassman hitting well against guys throwing 82-84 and known to have decent secondary stuff would probably qualify. I'll be curious to see other opinions. This really is subjective though.
EDIT ....As I re-read the question, I think the real answer is when he is hitting well against the guys with the best stuff and effectiveness at the level he is targeting in the conversation. Pretty simple when I re-thought it.
I guess it is a simple and complex question all in one. I see it in posts from time to time and I don't know how to quantify it . That is why I'm putting it out there for people who have seen a lot of baseball at that age group. I guess in my sons situation it would be as a varsity starter who competes in national level events . In my mind 16 wwba will be his biggest tournament this year . The majority of tournaments will be 16/17u past time tournaments, black swamp and 15u perfect game World Series. Hitting is his number 1 tool . That is why I'm trying to figure out what is high level pitching. I figure if he succeedes against high level pitching that he is a high level hitter.
I agree with what others have stated. Belo 84 and up, with a knack for getting guys out. Noticed a recent tourney where pitcher had most strikeouts by far, but didn't even make the velo daily leaders. Also, a good hitter can adjust after watching the pitcher, whether it's a nasty curve, high vela, weird arm slot, etc.
High level pitching is the same at most every level. Higher velocity, sharper breaking balls, better command, etc. than you normally see.
Not many hit well against the best pitchers. That is why they are considered the best pitchers. Those that are successful competing against that kind of pitching are the best hitting prospects.
Sometimes it's not the hitters actual results as much as it is seeing him battle and compete against that level of pitching. That really stands out to scouts and recruiters. Just having good at bats is a big plus.
If you are looking for a practical number...I'd agree with others that mid-80s as 16U pitcher is high level but we all know there is much, much more to pitching than velocity.
I'll never forget being at the 18U PG WWBA in East Cobb a bunch of years ago. My son's team had won the tournament the previous year. He'd put on some muscle/weight and had touched 90 in the Spring...so he was ready to show some of the college recruiters what he could do in an afternoon game. We're walking around the complex and happen to walk by some kid from Florida throwing a bullpen with a lot of college and pro scouts watching....he was touching 100mph. At that point, I think my son and I realized what high level or elite velocity really was (for an 18U player in a bullpen). A couple days later that 100mph kid is pitching in the semifinals against another Florida team and they are hitting him all over the place. The 100mph fastball was flat. Baseball is a funny game.
hueysdad posted:I guess it is a simple and complex question all in one. I see it in posts from time to time and I don't know how to quantify it . That is why I'm putting it out there for people who have seen a lot of baseball at that age group. I guess in my sons situation it would be as a varsity starter who competes in national level events . In my mind 16 wwba will be his biggest tournament this year . The majority of tournaments will be 16/17u past time tournaments, black swamp and 15u perfect game World Series. Hitting is his number 1 tool . That is why I'm trying to figure out what is high level pitching. I figure if he succeedes against high level pitching that he is a high level hitter.
Huey....you're not far from me here in NW Ohio. You are right on with regard to your tourneys. WWBA will be the best....though not every team there is "top level"...most are. My son's team won a couple games at the 14U WWBA and couldn't win a lot of games around here vs "average" teams. Pastime tourneys are also a mixed bag. The events at the bigger schools, OSU, Michigan, ND will bring in some really good teams....but you're also going to get some "local" type teams who just want to play at the nicer fields. Black Swamp is just ok....they take the same teams year after year, sometimes without regard to how good they are. They know if they get them at 16 they'll get them again the next 2 years. Yes, some are good....but overall, especially at 16U, it's not up to the level of most of the Pastime tourneys. Don't know much about PG World Series....are you talking about the new Super 25? From what I've seen, it looks to be taking off....I would expect it to be good, though a lot of top 15U teams will just play up at 16U so you may not see the best of the best in his age group.
Who does your son play for? May try to catch up with you during the Black Swamp if I've got some free time
My son was not considered high level and threw 84-86 touching 88 as a 16u player. I say this because he had a nasty (now plus) curveball with that velo and not many colleges seriously considered him as a prospect. I believe he was too short and also a RHP. I draw this conclusion due to the fact that UNTIL he broke 90 and was up to 93/94, not many schools came calling.
Shoveit4Ks posted:My son was not considered high level and threw 84-86 touching 88 as a 16u player. I say this because he had a nasty (now plus) curveball with that velo and not many colleges seriously considered him as a prospect. I believe he was too short and also a RHP. I draw this conclusion due to the fact that UNTIL he broke 90 and was up to 93/94, not many schools came calling.
This again highlights the definition of what we mean by high-level, though. My son was 81-83 as a 16u RHP with what could charitably be described as a "developing" breaking ball and he got a lot of interest from colleges, albeit primarily high academic DIIIs. He was also a 6'5", 185ish junior at the time, which I know didn't hurt.
If high-level means serious DI interest, then, yeah, there's not really all that much high-level pitching around, relatively speaking. If it means serious college interest, or even just the ability to get really good hitters out at his age level, that's a different story.
