What is More Important?

First of all, 10-year old travel teams are not the best idea...JMO from experience. Whats wrong with just playing with your friends down at the local park in LL or whatever you have locally?

At 12U, the most important thing is that the coach teaches the players the fundamentals and the nuances of the game. We all like to win (heck, I love to win!), but I'd rather have families and kids that are decent people that may not win everything they play in, but get along and just want their kids to learn.

Once you get to HS, I still want good families, but if you're going to travel, the winning becomes more relevant.

At 10yo the most important factor for selecting a travel team for us was playing time. The rec programs in our area had inflated rosters, time limits on games and max. run rules, so it was impossible to get the number of AB's per game to be enjoyable for my son. The final straw was when he only got one AB in two consecutive games and he was batting in the top of the order. It just wasn't fun for him.

We looked for a travel team that needed the position he played in the field and only carried an 11 man roster. That ensured that he would have plenty of playing time and several more opportunities to bat during each game.

While parent chemistry was a bonus and winning was always more enjoyable, the bottom line for me was that my son be on a team where instruction was emphasized and that he had fun.

I have seen 10yo teams where winning was the most important thing, where the parents argued and where the kids didn't like each other... Good grief, what's the point?

Even now, when evaluating 12yo teams to play for we look at roster size, coaching and the players on the team. The parent issue isn't really a factor for me since this is about my son's enjoyment. If he is having fun, than I will enjoy it by default. You'll typically find me seated down the lines away from the stands anyway.

To me, the most important factors would be instruction & playing time.

quote:

While parent chemistry was a bonus and winning was always more enjoyable, the bottom line for me was that my son be on a team where instruction was emphasized and that he had fun.

I would agree that instruction and playing time are the most important. Families that get along are the icing on the cake of an enjoyable experience for everyone.
Poor coaching will ruin the whole experience. Add in a couple boorish loudmouth parents and you'll dread you ever signed your kid up.

If the players get the best instruction the winning will take care of itself. What I have found is if the team gets great instructon & has a 12 or 13 man roster where the starters are rotated among the roster no matter what game you are playing the team will be good at the end of the season. What I found is that 2 things were common with most youth coaches:
1. They recruited the 9 best players they could find and just let them play. The other players on the roster got little instruction or playing time.
2. Youth coaches are scared to loose a game even if it would be the best thing for the players.

My son (13) just completed his summer traveling season and it was a rough one. He's come away feeling pretty much the same way I do about it all.

1. You must have coaches that know the game and have strong leadership sklls.

2. You must have a group of players that enjoy and respect the game as well as enjoy competing whether they are winning or losing.

3. Kids should not be placed on teams simply because their dad is either the head coach or an assistant coach. Especially if one of the coaches (or his kid) has a history of problems.

As I'm sure you can figure we just completed a season of "daddy ball". It was extremely disappointing to me because I'd incorrectly assumed that to coach a top level team, like this was supposed to be, you had to know your "stuff". Not only that but I'd incorrectly assumed there would be players on this team that were just like my son. Players that enjoy and respect the game. Players that give 100% no matter what the score is. Players that want to get better. Unfortunately I made bad assumptions.

Good luck!

Jason

You have to ask yourself what is more important to you? There are teams that go out and pick up the best players they can find with the sole purpose of winning. There are teams that are formed to give kids the (select) baseball experience. These teams might be short on talent and or coaching. They are put together so kids can compete with the other kids at this level. Then there are teams that are formed to teach kids baseball. A strong emphasis on fundementals and the finer points of the game. In my opinion the best situation a kid can be in at a early age is where the coach or coaches are dedicated to teaching the game. They are more concerned with developing all the players than just putting a 9 out there that can win every game. They make sure that if a kid is on the roster he will get an opportunity to play and learn the game. They are loyal to there players and they are not constantly looking to (upgrade). If your kid is getting great coaching and instruction he will get better and so will the team. In the long run they will be better off than the teams that are just put together with the better players and sent out on the field to win because they are just more talented. There will come a day when these teams will no longer be the most talented and the other kids will surpass them. The coaching is the most important thing period. Find a coach that knows the game and knows how to teach the game. Find a coach that teaches the fundementals of the game ie throwing fielding catching and hitting. Find a coach that is dedicated to teaching. There are a ton of coaches that are dedicated to winning at this level but not dedicated to teaching the game. There is a big difference believe me.

Flipp,
You have a PM.
CADad

CADad,

You have a reply!

Jason

What I am reading here is that it doesn't matter about who the other parents are or who the other players are just give me coach who is going to be the best for my son.

I couldn't agree more. A coach is a role model to your son whether you want him to be or not. So a coach not only needs to know how to teach the game but also be a person of integrity.

The coach who put together our son's first travel team took the best players who agreed to break away from the league. He was an excellent coach, not always the best role model though.
We traveled with that team for years. The best part of game day, was going out to the best wing place in town, moms, dads, players, siblings, even grandparents. The parents all got along and I do believe that all the chemistry helped us to be winners.
In other words, we had fun!

I think parents play a big role in the success of a team.

I say that because year in and year out, I watch other teams crumble while ours stays strong. Why? Our parents get along and they don't beyotch about playing time.

At other team's games, I often hear "My Johnny could have made that play" Do you think they say those things in front of the kid? You betcha! So where does lil Johnny get a bad attitude from? Mommy and Daddy.

Also, if you play 50 games, the parents will be together A LOT. Even though it is about the kid, the parents need to have some enjoyment out of it all.

Sorry Redbird, but the reason your team is successful and has stayed together so long is not the parents, it's the coaching! When are you moving to SC!!!

All the best buddy!
R.

Usually -- but not always -- good coaching breeds happy parents. Bad coachig never works. And good players -- combined with good coaching -- top everything. Winning can make everything good for a long, long time, at least until the egos take over.

Good coaching does not always breed good parents. I have a great example that just recently happened...

At AAU Nationals last week, a kid quit the team in the middle of the tourney because the coach got on him about a certain play (not degrading but coaching) . The decision was made by the parents. The coach in question is a good coach - knows his stuff and communicates it well. I would have him on my team today. The kid is a good kid and very good player.

Ironically, this kid's dad contacted my team 2 days later asking for a spot on our team. How can I take him? Why would I take him?

Redbird5

Your above post says it all. AAU Nationals!!! Kid quits the team in the middle of the tourney because the coach got on him? the decision was made by his parents? Kids dad contacted you?

2 questions to all

Are kids that soft today that they cant take criticism?

Are 'some" parents that overbearing?(for use of another phrase)

jemaz hit the nail on the head in my opinion. At this age (13) I don't care if my son plays on a lousy team. Obviously I'd like him to be on the best team he can be on but it's more important to me that he plays on a team that has quality coaches and players that appreciate, respect, and enjoy the game.

Jason

Will,

I agree.

Yes, many kids are soft. Ironically, I am very loud to try to 'harden' my kids as a prep for HS and college. I don't belittle.

Yes, many overbearing parents out there.

BTW, there is NO WAY to pick up this kid...we teach our players to repsect the game and your teammates. If I were to pick him up, what message would that send?

quote:

If I were to pick him up, what message would that send?

The wrong message! Further, since your boys know this player you are sending the correct message to them and their parents.

Will

I believe that boys wanting to play baseball today play MORE baseball than they did back in the sandlots. To have so many negative opinions about "today's" players seems unfounded to me. I simply don't understand your point. I can assure you that my 11yo is as "tough" as any back in your day...guaranteed.

Callaway

The atmosphere is just different. It is just what I have observed and yes experienced over many years. I am not being negative just pointing some things out.

My view on baseball today for kids is this:

It is the best it has ever been and by far. There are more better athletes playing, there is better coaching, better facilities and better opportunities for tough competition. The mental part of the game is taught earlier and better.

The best of baseball lies ahead, not behing.

quote:

Originally posted by Callaway:
The wrong message! Further, since your boys know this player you are sending the correct message to them and their parents.

I agree...he'll have to play somewhere else next year.

In this case wherever this kid goes his parents reputation precedes him.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
In this case wherever this kid goes his parents reputation precedes him.

You are correct

Travel team before graduating from LL...IMO more like snob-ball.

Travel teams for 13U-18U prior to college ball, should be about playing time and good coaching if you can find it...otherwise, what's the point.

Welcome back. Not sure I know what snob-ball is. I've never heard that term used before. 13 to 18 is a wide spread. Exposure may not be such a big deal at 13 but will become a VERY BIG factor prior to college.
Fungo

<<< Welcome back. Not sure I know what snob-ball is. I've never heard that term used before. 13 to 18 is a wide spread. Exposure may not be such a big deal at 13 but will become a VERY BIG factor prior to college.
Fungo >>>


Didn't know you missed me...just kidding.

I know that Cal Ripkin ball and LL are looked down on as insufficient venues by some coaches. We have a local team here that is a 12U travel team called the EXTREME. The end products of which attend the local HS's. I can't say whether the end products of that program at the college level include any of their players.

Fallball starts August 25 here and my son just returned from the IBC tourney. Pitched twice against the Baseball Factory, got (1)SAVE and (1)WP. He didn't start travel team until he had finished his LL experience. I think it helps them learn to deal with baseball from all aspects, including both the good and the bad (politics) of having to be accepted and liked to progress and proceed based on their own reputation to perform in the clutch.

The 12U travel team here, and I hear is pretty good, but I wouldn't allow my son to join when he was asked me about it. I had him play Babe Ruth 13-15 ball which is pretty good baseball here. The BRLL League spands three counties with over 3500 kids and the level of ball is pretty competitive. The tourneys are as good as any that we had attended in private ball club tournaments. Cost $175.00 to $750.00 depends on which team and in what county.

I don't take anything away from other programs as they have their salient points of positive testimony by many here. But for a parent who is looking for an inexpensive way to give their son the chance to learn the game and reach a level of play that will help in the decision whether he wants to pursue it beyond the elementary youth stages, BRLL can't be beat.

Snob-ball refers to parents who are willing to spend $1,000.00 to $3,500.00 for their 10-11yo to travel thousands of miles to play select elitist baseball. I know of parent here that have done it. the results of their son's skills aren't any better than what BRLL provides....just different atmospherics.

My son is working on putting the academics together with the baseball. He found that the D-1 players that didn't make their teams come back and play at the JC level to see if they can get drafted. It's extremely competitive:

2005 California Community College Baseball

My son will be competing for a starting job this year so he will be running 2 miles and working out for 3 hours everyday per the recommended schedule of his pitching coach.

quote:

Originally posted by Ramrod:
Snob-ball refers to parents who are willing to spend $1,000.00 to $3,500.00 for their 10-11yo to travel thousands of miles to play select elitist baseball. I know of parent here that have done it. the results of their son's skills aren't any better than what BRLL provides....just different atmospherics.

I coach an 11U team and I can tell you, without a doubt, that my 11U players have better skills than any rec league team in our state.

redbird:

Ramrod didn't put it the best way, and I am totally sure of the accuracy of your statement. But CA, with 40 million people, is just different. There are so many players -- including just about nearly every high-level athlete -- that every level of baseball in CA -- rec or travel -- will include a number of amazing player with amazing skills. The best players anywhere are just as good as the best player in Cali, but CA has so many that it is always amazing. Ramrod's statement undoubtedly is true, but only in CA, which probably is all he has seen.

Arizona has just over 5 Million people and Virginia has approximately 7.5 Million. California has almost 40 Million.

As in any endeavor there will be 10-12yo baseball programs that are the exceptions and Redbird's team may qualify as one of those.

But as with schools sizes the 1A level school is usually much better than a 5A school in athletics because the student population demographics just gives the edge to larger schools that can have up to 5,000 students versus a small school that has 400 students. That's the analogy that JEMAZ is making here regarding a BRLL program in California versus a private ball club program in a small state. The area that the BRLL program can select players from will have players that include players with athleticism that you would have to search your entire state to get.

The California Community College Baseball Program has over 600 pitchers, 200 that are very good, and the top 10% of them could probably pitch at D-1 or the Minor League level right now. There is no way that a scout or college coach can see everyone of these pitchers during a season. the best that can happen for a good pitcher is for his team to make it to the championship rounds of the playoffs, as did our team and the eventual champion the Santa Rosa team. Those players did get the chance to be evaluated by the upper level colleges and scouts. Last year our team had the #1 batter in the entire league and we still got eliminated in the first round. So that is exactly what we mean that the talent pool is so vast and competitive that having one or two top players on your team doesn't guarantee you anything.

Between California, Florida and Texas IMO you will fine the best baseball programs, just because of size and weather.

We now have "Daddy ball" and now Snob Ball. Maybe somewhere in between we have some baseball

I think Bubba is putting together a "junket bus" to bring them "poor passed over pitchers" out of California to his showcases!

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quote:

Originally posted by Ramrod:
Arizona has just over 5 Million people and Virginia has approximately 7.5 Million. California has almost 40 Million.

Incredible that CA has so many people and VA had more 1st rounders in the past Free Agent Draft. Yeah...good baseball is only played in CA, TX & GA.

Fungo,
You funny guy
And smart too!