Hey I'm trying to find out what is the most efficient swing path and how MLB hitters use their swing path to hit well. I've seen some guys swinging down, swinging to the level, and swinging uppercut. What would be a good swing path?
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quote:Originally posted by vertigo_911:
Hey I'm trying to find out what is the most efficient swing path and how MLB hitters use their swing path to hit well. I've seen some guys swinging down, swinging to the level, and swinging uppercut. What would be a good swing path?
A slight upswing is the best path unless you have outstanding speed and little or no power. IMO
A lot (I've been told) depends on strength... which can be seen (not necessarily perfectly) by body size and just the muscles.
I being a smaller guy, have always been told to swing down until the point of contact (not drastic) and then extend through the ball. When done properly, this creates back spin and causes the ball to rise as it goes further. I'm not saying this is absolutely the only way. I'm interested to read further posts.
I being a smaller guy, have always been told to swing down until the point of contact (not drastic) and then extend through the ball. When done properly, this creates back spin and causes the ball to rise as it goes further. I'm not saying this is absolutely the only way. I'm interested to read further posts.
Think about it.....
Would the swing path be the same for a high pitch as a low pitch?
Would the swing path be the same for a high pitch as a low pitch?
Here you're probably gonna "swing on the plane of the pitch." Rotational
quote:Originally posted by Roll-it-up:
Think about it.....
Would the swing path be the same for a high pitch as a low pitch?
If you are swinging down it will be. Not in the same lane, but the direction will be.
quote:Originally posted by Dtiger:
A lot (I've been told) depends on strength... which can be seen (not necessarily perfectly) by body size and just the muscles.
I being a smaller guy, have always been told to swing down until the point of contact (not drastic) and then extend through the ball. When done properly, this creates back spin and causes the ball to rise as it goes further. I'm not saying this is absolutely the only way. I'm interested to read further posts.
If, you can get to a slight downward swing, get the path of the ball and the path of the sweetspot to the exact correct spot, while being in perfect position with your body, and have arms like tree trunks, yes, this will work. But, if you look at video clips of most Major League hitters from the side, you will see the slight up-swing I described.
Any path but this...
This is a TOTALLY incorrect swing path and yet the PCR and PCRW swings are built around it.
The problem....many....but the lead elbow up in the plane as part of the "connection" to shoulder turn as the power source is minor league....low level....a sure cause of turning one into a s o c c e r player. This is what I would call a "mostly" horizontal swing plane.
This...
...is the proper swing plane....what I would call "diagonal".
You can swing up to the ball from a mostly horizontal plane or you can swing up to the ball from diagonal plane. Only one of the two choices is high level.
The diagonal plane allows early batspeed and high adjustability because it's radius is very short....it's the hands. The fulcrum is between the hands. The mostly horizontal plane is slow developing, forces an early commitment and demands the spine be the fulcrum of rotation, meaning a LONG radius swing. The arms are part and parcel of the power source in the mostly horizontal swing path. That is THE kiss of death.
The mostly horizontal swing plane IS the cause of bat drag.....the seen and unseen bat drag. Even if your rear elbow is not leading the rear hand....if you are swinging in the mostly horizontal swing plane you are dragging the bat.
It must be the hips and the hands, not the arms. You must get the lead elbow down out of the swing plane.
This is a TOTALLY incorrect swing path and yet the PCR and PCRW swings are built around it.
The problem....many....but the lead elbow up in the plane as part of the "connection" to shoulder turn as the power source is minor league....low level....a sure cause of turning one into a s o c c e r player. This is what I would call a "mostly" horizontal swing plane.
This...
...is the proper swing plane....what I would call "diagonal".
You can swing up to the ball from a mostly horizontal plane or you can swing up to the ball from diagonal plane. Only one of the two choices is high level.
The diagonal plane allows early batspeed and high adjustability because it's radius is very short....it's the hands. The fulcrum is between the hands. The mostly horizontal plane is slow developing, forces an early commitment and demands the spine be the fulcrum of rotation, meaning a LONG radius swing. The arms are part and parcel of the power source in the mostly horizontal swing path. That is THE kiss of death.
The mostly horizontal swing plane IS the cause of bat drag.....the seen and unseen bat drag. Even if your rear elbow is not leading the rear hand....if you are swinging in the mostly horizontal swing plane you are dragging the bat.
It must be the hips and the hands, not the arms. You must get the lead elbow down out of the swing plane.
Chameleon,
Of all the posts that you have entered on this site, this post best communicates the hitting philosophy and mechanics you have been advocating for so long. I am in 100% agreement with you. Hands and hips equal bat speed and bat control.
Nice to see a good post on hitting again, its been awhile!
Of all the posts that you have entered on this site, this post best communicates the hitting philosophy and mechanics you have been advocating for so long. I am in 100% agreement with you. Hands and hips equal bat speed and bat control.
Nice to see a good post on hitting again, its been awhile!
I think what Chameleon is saying is good is what I (attempt to) do. My angle going "down" towards the ball is not drastic. I just focus on not dropping my hands and then finishing with good (level-not very tilted) extention. As long as I do those 2 things, I usually have a pretty good swing that feels comfortable.
So is it basically Lau-ism swing path such as 'pulling the knob to the ball', or is it just another way to use the hand to make a diagonal path? Can someone explain it? Thanks
The important distinction between what Chameleon teaches and Charlie Lau is Chameleon (I believe) believes in keeping your weight back and exploding with hands and hips linked for power. Lau is more linear and hitting off the front foot. Both are distinctly different than pure rotational.
quote:Originally posted by vertigo_911:
So is it basically Lau-ism swing path such as 'pulling the knob to the ball', or is it just another way to use the hand to make a diagonal path? Can someone explain it? Thanks
Although I agree with "knob to the ball", I do not believe in pulling the knob to the ball. I, like Tony Gwynn, believe in trying to hit the ball with the knob of the bat in the beginning of taking your hands to the ball. Meaning, I don't believe you can take your top hand to the ball first or even both at the same time, if you are trying to get your hands to contact position too early. That, IMO, is what creates a long swing. The top hand has to fire late.
quote:Originally posted by Chameleon:
..........................................
The fulcrum is between the hands.
.....................................................
It must be the hips and the hands, not the arms..............................
For several years - Chameleon (and his many different ids) argued against the importance of the hands in the swing process. And I am sure many people may have actually given that nonsense credence.
In every case - his defense was that all those that suggested that the hands (and the wrists) were an integral part of the swing process - were clueless.
And for all of those years many of us here told him how terribly wrong he was - and how bad his advice was - and how it hurt anyone willing to believe it.
NOW - Chameleon believes the hands are an integral part of the swing process. NOW - the hands are important.
I find it all just very very sad - and I hope that new members will do everything they can to find out as much as they can about anyone - giving advice about any subject - before they act on any of the "advice" dispensed on the internet.
Just very sad to watch this continue to play out. IMO.
I fail to see much of a difference in the two examples demonstrated by Chameleon's examples. That "lead elbow" isn't that different. Of course one is a animation and the other is live. Probably some difference there. Again, video is worthwhile if you take the time to view it. However, Chameleon has often used the same video ie. video of Bonds to argue two vastly different theories.
Its, you are correct in your assertion of Chameleon. The following is a quote Chameleon (As Teacherman) once put on the public portion of a private site. At the time, I was doing my best to “catch up” on PCR. Certainly this quote in that conversation was the train of thought Chameleon argued/supported at that time. I don't think it would be that difficult to find various members of the internet community who have video of Chameleon attempting to demonstrate his support of various conflicting philosophies. I will work on that.
…"look Doug is old school and thinks the hands and arms power the swing, and you are not going to convince him otherwise so leave it alone .....as long as he does not come on this website and try to attribute to the hands what can only be done by other body parts I don’t care…. "
The only way to discover the swing process is by trial and error and by “developing within their body a better "kinesthetic sense.” (This is a paraphrase of statements contained on the aforementioned site by that site’s owner.)
vertigo__911, you are going to find several theories out there. Reading this site or others like it will never take the place of getting out there and taking some swings. To be sure, members on this site, including myself, are more than willing to let you know which theories they believe best fit the bill. If your interesting in which theory I support, pm me.
Take care.
Its, you are correct in your assertion of Chameleon. The following is a quote Chameleon (As Teacherman) once put on the public portion of a private site. At the time, I was doing my best to “catch up” on PCR. Certainly this quote in that conversation was the train of thought Chameleon argued/supported at that time. I don't think it would be that difficult to find various members of the internet community who have video of Chameleon attempting to demonstrate his support of various conflicting philosophies. I will work on that.
…"look Doug is old school and thinks the hands and arms power the swing, and you are not going to convince him otherwise so leave it alone .....as long as he does not come on this website and try to attribute to the hands what can only be done by other body parts I don’t care…. "
The only way to discover the swing process is by trial and error and by “developing within their body a better "kinesthetic sense.” (This is a paraphrase of statements contained on the aforementioned site by that site’s owner.)
vertigo__911, you are going to find several theories out there. Reading this site or others like it will never take the place of getting out there and taking some swings. To be sure, members on this site, including myself, are more than willing to let you know which theories they believe best fit the bill. If your interesting in which theory I support, pm me.
Take care.
quote:Originally posted by CoachB25:
That "lead elbow" isn't that different.
The difference in the two lead elbows, where they are positioned and how they work, is HUGE.
When you "get it" you'll convert to the truth just like I did.
In a high level swing there is no "tug" on the lead arm/elbow by the rotating shoulders to pull the bat through the zone in the rotational plane of the shoulders. Relying on that to power the swing IS the cause of bat drag. It is very slow developing and requires an early start.
As the hands turn the barrel the lead elbow works up. As the hips rotate the upper torso turns and gives the elbow the "appearance" of what you and the others are fooled by.
While the "look" of the two moves are very similar on video, how they are produced is vastly different. And, each move results in a different swing plane.....one high level the other not.
quote:Originally posted by Chameleon:
When you "get it" you'll convert to the truth just like I did.
This was part of this anonymous cyber troll's response to Coach B25.
Nice. LOL
CoachB25 is a real coach - with a real history - and real insights into the game.
But Chameleon - the cyber entity of multiple ids - continues to spew absolute contradictory garbage delivered in condescending and insulting ways.
It used to be just funny. But it is getting so very very old.
I hope all of the folks who read these posts understand them for what they are.
Pure cyber garbage from an anonymous cyber troll. Year after year after year.
IMO.
Chameleon - (and all of your prior anonymous cyber ids)
Talk to me about the hands and the swing.
Talk to me baby!
LOL
Talk to me about the hands and the swing.
Talk to me baby!
LOL
quote:Originally posted by Chameleon:
Any path but this...
This is a TOTALLY incorrect swing path and yet the PCR and PCRW swings are built around it.
Chameleon,
Take a deep breath dude.
That is a cyber animated skeleton.
I dont know any skeletons that have ever played a single game of baseball.
On this planet anyway. LOL
Chameleon,
Where did you go?
Talk to us about the hands.
Cyber-Enlighten us - please.
LOL
Where did you go?
Talk to us about the hands.
Cyber-Enlighten us - please.
LOL
