Son may not be able to make a “pre-draft” showcase depending on college playoffs and am wondering if “Sunshine West” (May 30-31) would be too late? Son (6'3'' LHP) is in an odd situation; coming back from TJ surgery with good velocity and movement but still figuring out mechanics so control hasn't been great. Scouts have been hanging around his games and two this week have asked him when he is pitching. He has no idea if or when the coach will have him pitch. In one of the scout conversations he told the scout that his pitching coach (a kid that graduated a few years ago) told him to “throw 80%” for control, scout said no, “we'll teach you control when you get to pro ball”. Son has figured out that he needs to manage what he can and get on a regular bullpen schedule to repeat mechanics, and not 80% mechanics. I told him to focus on May, and if coach isn't getting him seen then go to a showcase.

Original Post

Scouts will be at the college world series regionals and supers.   Scouts will be at college conference playoffs.  They will be at regular and non-conference games.  They will scout right up to the when the draft boards are set.  (well, maybe the day before).

I haven't heard of a pre-draft showcase for college players, unless you are talking about an invite workout  by a MLB team.   Every game a player plays is a "showcase" in college.

There is still a lot of baseball to be played before June.  The scouts will figure out the pitching rotation.

Or, the scouts could ask him to throw a bull-pen before a game if he isn't pitching that day.

FWIW - Son got invited to a workout for XXX  MLB team.  His agent "highly suggested" he not go.....that it would show "favoritism" to that team since he didn't go to the other MLB workouts that he had been invited to due to his college playoffs.  The XXX scout was everywhere and had already seen him play dozens of times. 

In the end, it didn't matter.  Got drafted by YYY team.

 

Last edited by keewart

We're at a tournament this weekend. Scouts came and went. My feeling (and I know NOTHING) is if there's a good players, scouts will scout them, whenever it is.

Every player with a potential MLB tool - at every level, in every division, in every state - will be found and scouted.

While scouts  - to make conversation - will ask a pitcher when he will pitch, the scout doesnt rely on that conversation to base the scout's schedule. The scout - every week - will have communication with every program in his area (might be phone, might be text, might be by a mass emailing from the program to all area scouts) which will cover the players who may have the potential MLB tool and the schedule for pitchers (gets a bit tricky if the pitcher is a closer, however).

For a kid who is recovering from an injury, that player may not be in mid-season form during most of the season. For these guys, the scout has to scramble and evaluate the player on a different schedule. That may take the form of showing up at bullpens and/or inviting the player to a club workout shortly before the draft (club workouts can be anywhere and have large numbers of players present or just a few). 

There are no set "rules" on scouting and drafting injured/recovered players; there was a HS kid in our area who needed TJ and was drafted in the last round. Club gave him the max non-slot bonus, paid for the TJ, and after recovery the kid rocketed up for an MLB cup of coffee - before his career ended. Now, this kid was a LHP who was 90 before the injury and reached 95 on his way up after recovery.

As for taking to the bank anything a scout says to a player, remember this: it is only conversation, it is what the scout does and nothing can be gleaned from most of the pitter-patter. There are some signs of seriousness - like a questionnaire, or cross-checkers watching, or even the sheer number of scouts repeatedly showing up - but it's all tea leaves (except for slot players which have unique issues) until an announcement.

Imo, too many players begin (understandably) focusing on the draft and it adversely affects their play.

 

Last edited by Goosegg
LHP's Roady posted:

Son may not be able to make a “pre-draft” showcase depending on college playoffs and am wondering if “Sunshine West” (May 30-31) would be too late? Son (6'3'' LHP) is in an odd situation; coming back from TJ surgery with good velocity and movement but still figuring out mechanics so control hasn't been great. Scouts have been hanging around his games and two this week have asked him when he is pitching. He has no idea if or when the coach will have him pitch. In one of the scout conversations he told the scout that his pitching coach (a kid that graduated a few years ago) told him to “throw 80%” for control, scout said no, “we'll teach you control when you get to pro ball”. Son has figured out that he needs to manage what he can and get on a regular bullpen schedule to repeat mechanics, and not 80% mechanics. I told him to focus on May, and if coach isn't getting him seen then go to a showcase.

Scouts don't ask players those questions (when are you going to pitch) they call the coaches.

I agree with GOOSEGG, take what a scout says with a grain of salt.

Unless your son has been identified as a top draft prospect, and your son has a solid college committment at a good program,  considering the circumstances, go to college.

TPM posted:
LHP's Roady posted:

Son may not be able to make a “pre-draft” showcase depending on college playoffs and am wondering if “Sunshine West” (May 30-31) would be too late? Son (6'3'' LHP) is in an odd situation; coming back from TJ surgery with good velocity and movement but still figuring out mechanics so control hasn't been great. Scouts have been hanging around his games and two this week have asked him when he is pitching. He has no idea if or when the coach will have him pitch. In one of the scout conversations he told the scout that his pitching coach (a kid that graduated a few years ago) told him to “throw 80%” for control, scout said no, “we'll teach you control when you get to pro ball”. Son has figured out that he needs to manage what he can and get on a regular bullpen schedule to repeat mechanics, and not 80% mechanics. I told him to focus on May, and if coach isn't getting him seen then go to a showcase.

Scouts don't ask players those questions (when are you going to pitch) they call the coaches.

I agree with GOOSEGG, take what a scout says with a grain of salt.

Unless your son has been identified as a top draft prospect, and your son has a solid college committment at a good program,  considering the circumstances, go to college.

They text my son all the time and ask him when he is pitching.

BASEBALLHS,

During HS, not one scout asked that question, during college all questions were directed to pitching coach, and now, those questions are asked of the HC.

Reason being, coaches are concerned about winning games, the draft becomes a distraction to many players.

As a parent, if the draft appears to be a serious thought, I would have son direct all questions to his coaches.

JMO

I know that in our state there is also an email that goes to all of the scouts who subscribe and they ask you to email each week with your pitching schedule.  Some still text to confirm or ask how many pitches you are set to throw.  It hasn’t been a distraction at this point.  I think our coach might be more annoyed if he was asked to handle it.

Last edited by baseballhs

This whole thing was a bit of a head scratcher but is he in HS or college? 

If he's in college he doesn't need to pay for a pre-draft showcase. If he's in HS and isn't getting any attention from scouts a paid showcase would be a waste because he's not on anybody's radar. 

I'm not sure what pitching coach would tell one of his guys to only throw 80%, but "recent grad" gives me a pretty good idea. I'm also not sure what you mean by if his coach isn't getting him seen but it appears your son needs to have a conversation with the HC about a realistic timeline for getting back on the mound and then worry about pro baseball after. 

FWIW there were scouts at 2019s games the week of the draft. Nothing ever came of it, but I would assume they were there for a reason 

The texts to the players is part of the scout's job. He is creating a relationship so that  - when and if the time comes - he is a trusted, close resource. Comes in handy in many situations.

Some texts from the player to the scout  may useful but the schedules upon which the scout rely's are direct with the team  - HC, RC DOps, whoever.

 

Goosegg posted:

The texts to the players is part of the scout's job. He is creating a relationship so that  - when and if the time comes - he is a trusted, close resource. Comes in handy in many situations.

Some texts from the player to the scout  may useful but the schedules upon which the scout rely's are direct with the team  - HC, RC DOps, whoever.

 

I would believe that to be true if the player would really be a consideration.

This doesn't sound to be the situation.

But I can be wrong.

 

Last edited by TPM

Thanks to everyone for the info. What Goosegg said about the backroom conversations makes perfect sense. His coach told him out of the blue this week that he hopes he goes back to college after he is done with pro ball (he is a good student).  He is a juco redshirt freshman closer and was out for over 2 years. He came back with more velocity than expected, was up to 92 by his 3rd scrimmage, and then threw harder over the break. I now believe they are trying to get him to pace himself and are making sure he stays healthy, which makes a lot of sense since he is still maturing. Anything can happen, but I know none of it is in my control. So I will just try to sit quietly in the back of the bus and enjoy the ride.

Goosegg posted:

The texts to the players is part of the scout's job. He is creating a relationship so that  - when and if the time comes - he is a trusted, close resource. Comes in handy in many situations.

Some texts from the player to the scout  may useful but the schedules upon which the scout rely's are direct with the team  - HC, RC DOps, whoever.

 

One of the scouts has become such a resource and has been a big help to my son.

 

No one can determine your path or how it will play out by a post and no ones path is the same. Sounds like an exciting time for your family. Good luck and keep us posted!

LHP's Roady posted:
Goosegg posted:

The texts to the players is part of the scout's job. He is creating a relationship so that  - when and if the time comes - he is a trusted, close resource. Comes in handy in many situations.

Some texts from the player to the scout  may useful but the schedules upon which the scout rely's are direct with the team  - HC, RC DOps, whoever.

 

One of the scouts has become such a resource and has been a big help to my son.

 

Does your son have a commitment to a 4 year program?

TPM posted:
LHP's Roady posted:
Goosegg posted:

The texts to the players is part of the scout's job. He is creating a relationship so that  - when and if the time comes - he is a trusted, close resource. Comes in handy in many situations.

Some texts from the player to the scout  may useful but the schedules upon which the scout rely's are direct with the team  - HC, RC DOps, whoever.

 

One of the scouts has become such a resource and has been a big help to my son.

 

Does your son have a commitment to a 4 year program?

No. He is keeping a handful of the top programs that have expressed interest posted as to his development. Given his age (he will turn 21 before the draft) and desire for development if he gets a fair deal he will probably go, but he is keeping the college option open. One of the clubs asked him about his concerns and he said it was food. He had heard stories about how hard it was to maintain weight in the minors and he eats a ton. The scout told him the club has chefs at every facility. I think my son would have signed for a bus ticket on the spot.

I'm gonna make an offer -- Anybody's kid plays for the Staten Island Yankees or the Brooklyn Cyclones this summer, I will cook him and a buddy a home cooked meal. All they gotta do is come to Manhattan.  And I am a really good cook.

Last edited by JCG
JCG posted:

I'm gonna make an offer -- Anybody's kid plays for the Staten Island Yankees or the Brooklyn Cyclones this summer, I will cook him and a buddy a home cooked meal. All they gotta do is come to Manhattan.  And I am a really good cook.

I have been laughing for the last five minutes. Thanks.

LHP's Roady posted:
TPM posted:
LHP's Roady posted:
Goosegg posted:

The texts to the players is part of the scout's job. He is creating a relationship so that  - when and if the time comes - he is a trusted, close resource. Comes in handy in many situations.

Some texts from the player to the scout  may useful but the schedules upon which the scout rely's are direct with the team  - HC, RC DOps, whoever.

 

One of the scouts has become such a resource and has been a big help to my son.

 

Does your son have a commitment to a 4 year program?

No. He is keeping a handful of the top programs that have expressed interest posted as to his development. Given his age (he will turn 21 before the draft) and desire for development if he gets a fair deal he will probably go, but he is keeping the college option open. One of the clubs asked him about his concerns and he said it was food. He had heard stories about how hard it was to maintain weight in the minors and he eats a ton. The scout told him the club has chefs at every facility. I think my son would have signed for a bus ticket on the spot.

If your son has no commitment to further his education, he has nothing to use for bargaining for a bonus with any teams, and they LOVE that.

You said that your son was smart, as a two year freshman at a JUCO at 21 who hasn't played for 2 years, he should have a commitment to a 4 year program, that IMO is more important than any possibility of getting drafted.  At 21 he should have at least 3 years of school. Seriously, I am not telling you this to be mean, I am speaking from sons experience in a very good organization. You or your son know nothing about the draft, and do not rely on these scouts to be your friend.  Because they are not. 

They DO NOT have chefs at  most milb facilities. They have chefs in the ML clubhouse.  Milb have club managers who do everything from washing uniforms, grocery shopping and cooking, but they are not chefs.  And all players have to pay clubhouse dues for the clubbie.  Has he asked what a low minor league player will be paid next year?

And a lot of it depends on the team that drafts you and if they own their milb affiliate. Some organizations are better than others but I was shocked when someone told me her son ate PB & J, and played in milb in one of the richer   ML clubs.

Your son will be 21 so he can decide what path he will take, but you and he need to understand how it works. He will not get enough money to finish paying for his education, that should be his concerns, not about the food. 

Your 21 year old son might end up in a league with drafted HS students.

What if he doesn't get drafted?  What are his plans?  

Please feel free to send me a pm if you wish to discuss.  

TPM posted:
LHP's Roady posted:
TPM posted:
LHP's Roady posted:
Goosegg posted:

The texts to the players is part of the scout's job. He is creating a relationship so that  - when and if the time comes - he is a trusted, close resource. Comes in handy in many situations.

Some texts from the player to the scout  may useful but the schedules upon which the scout rely's are direct with the team  - HC, RC DOps, whoever.

 

One of the scouts has become such a resource and has been a big help to my son.

 

Does your son have a commitment to a 4 year program?

No. He is keeping a handful of the top programs that have expressed interest posted as to his development. Given his age (he will turn 21 before the draft) and desire for development if he gets a fair deal he will probably go, but he is keeping the college option open. One of the clubs asked him about his concerns and he said it was food. He had heard stories about how hard it was to maintain weight in the minors and he eats a ton. The scout told him the club has chefs at every facility. I think my son would have signed for a bus ticket on the spot.

If your son has no commitment to further his education, he has nothing to use for bargaining for a bonus with any teams, and they LOVE that.

You said that your son was smart, as a two year freshman at a JUCO at 21 who hasn't played for 2 years, he should have a commitment to a 4 year program, that IMO is more important than any possibility of getting drafted.  At 21 he should have at least 3 years of school. Seriously, I am not telling you this to be mean, I am speaking from sons experience in a very good organization. You or your son know nothing about the draft, and do not rely on these scouts to be your friend.  Because they are not. 

They DO NOT have chefs at  most milb facilities. They have chefs in the ML clubhouse.  Milb have club managers who do everything from washing uniforms, grocery shopping and cooking, but they are not chefs.  And all players have to pay clubhouse dues for the clubbie.  Has he asked what a low minor league player will be paid next year?

And a lot of it depends on the team that drafts you and if they own their milb affiliate. Some organizations are better than others but I was shocked when someone told me her son ate PB & J, and played in milb in one of the richer   ML clubs.

Your son will be 21 so he can decide what path he will take, but you and he need to understand how it works. He will not get enough money to finish paying for his education, that should be his concerns, not about the food. 

Your 21 year old son might end up in a league with drafted HS students.

What if he doesn't get drafted?  What are his plans?  

Please feel free to send me a pm if you wish to discuss.  

Thanks for the information. I ran across Dirk Hayhurst, The Long Out in another thread. Son has made sure to cover his transfer eligibility stuff and has a 4 year academic scholarship to fall back on. As another contingency he is teaching himself Japanese (not kidding). I will also make sure he gets information to the schools that are waiting on it. I don't think playing with drafted HS students would be a problem for him as long as they provided a challenge. He is not a partier and most of them look older than he does with his 3 chin hairs.

As an FYI, players with no professional experience are not chosen by Japanese teams. Sons college teammate was a 4th pick first round and the best he could do was a season in Korea.

It would be wiser to learn Spanish, if he is not bi lingual.

Best of luck to your son.

TPM posted:

As an FYI, players with no professional experience are not chosen by Japanese teams. Sons college teammate was a 4th pick first round and the best he could do was a season in Korea.

It would be wiser to learn Spanish, if he is not bi lingual.

Best of luck to your son.

Carter Stewart was chosen. He was a top of first round talent though so for the majority of amateur players you are probably right, if he can't go top5 rounds in the US he probably won't get chosen in Japan 

Dominik85 posted:
TPM posted:

As an FYI, players with no professional experience are not chosen by Japanese teams. Sons college teammate was a 4th pick first round and the best he could do was a season in Korea.

It would be wiser to learn Spanish, if he is not bi lingual.

Best of luck to your son.

Carter Stewart was chosen. He was a top of first round talent though so for the majority of amateur players you are probably right, if he can't go top5 rounds in the US he probably won't get chosen in Japan 

Yes, I remember, but he was a number 8 pic so you are right it doesnt apply in this case.

Now I am really confused. Son is developing rapidly, thus my original question, the longer he has to figure things out the better. But the clock is ticking, he is going to turn 21. The thinking when I originally posted was get to pro ball and work through the system with good pitching coaches (he is a blank slate and very coachable). Also the late movement on his fastball plays better with wood. Now the comments indicate that if you don't go in an early round of the draft it pigeonholes you for your career. Is that really a thing? Does it matter as much for LHP's?

I think what people are trying to say is that it is better to go in with leverage. Obviously the better the stuff he has the more likely he will not be pigeonholed, but if they ain't got much invested into you the more likely they will move on to the next guy if you hit a bump in the road. MLB has a business first mentally.

What makes you think your son is draftable?  Just being a lefty, coachable, smart, and/or a blank slate doesn't. Having a potential MLB tool does.

What have the area scouts during home visits say?  Has he been given lots of questionnaires? Have cross-checkers or assistant GMs contacted him? If so, what did they say?

Topping 92 is nice; but what does he sit? Does he miss bats?  How many ks/9? How many bb/9? Does he have a devastating second pitch (absolutely needed for a closer) or a third or fourth pitch (needed for a starter)?

Do not for a minute think/believe pro pitching coaches are the true north; some clubs have coaches who can develop, while many others don't. With 60ish new players (half of them pitchers) being brought in each year, there isn't any desire for a 92 mph lhp project. Now, I have seen 100 mph players drafted and kept for years as projects - but not 92 mph pitchers.

He may get a pro shot, but you haven't provided compelling data which indicates (1) this is the year  and/or (2) he is slot potential.

Moreover, he has no control over the process EXCEPT for pitching lights out, with repeatable mechanics, showing MLB potential velo and control. When he does that, the next step is have a bonus amount which doesn't self-eliminate.

Do some research on old threads  - MILB is a form of hell which should only be chosen with open eyes. 

 

A slight diversion, but along the same topic — we recently learned that my son, who is in his second year, is on target to graduate after three years. He would be draft eligible, but when I asked the coach I talk to once a year if he would still get athletic aid if he chose to stay a fourth year, he said sure he could do that but graduating early "is a great place to be for negotiating."

Why is that? It seemed to me you'd be in that spot of teams basically saying "yea, so you can come play for us for no money, or be done playing." Is it just because he could stay in school for that additional degree?

Goosegg posted:

What makes you think your son is draftable?  Just being a lefty, coachable, smart, and/or a blank slate doesn't. Having a potential MLB tool does.

What have the area scouts during home visits say?  Has he been given lots of questionnaires? Have cross-checkers or assistant GMs contacted him? If so, what did they say?

Topping 92 is nice; but what does he sit? Does he miss bats?  How many ks/9? How many bb/9? Does he have a devastating second pitch (absolutely needed for a closer) or a third or fourth pitch (needed for a starter)?

Do not for a minute think/believe pro pitching coaches are the true north; some clubs have coaches who can develop, while many others don't. With 60ish new players (half of them pitchers) being brought in each year, there isn't any desire for a 92 mph lhp project. Now, I have seen 100 mph players drafted and kept for years as projects - but not 92 mph pitchers.

He may get a pro shot, but you haven't provided compelling data which indicates (1) this is the year  and/or (2) he is slot potential.

Moreover, he has no control over the process EXCEPT for pitching lights out, with repeatable mechanics, showing MLB potential velo and control. When he does that, the next step is have a bonus amount which doesn't self-eliminate.

Do some research on old threads  - MILB is a form of hell which should only be chosen with open eyes. 

 

I did not mean to imply that the highest he has touched is 92. So far the highest he has touched is 94. his goal is to repeat those mechanics and sit there by May. God only knows where he will be when he can grow a beard. His "tool", if I had to guess at this point, is a unique late movement on his fastball. This is juco so his k rate is ridiculous, and no one has barreled his fastball, in games, scrimmages, or practices. I appreciate your perspective and information. This may not be the best year for him to go since he is a work in progress.

Last edited by LHP's Roady
Iowamom23 posted:

A slight diversion, but along the same topic — we recently learned that my son, who is in his second year, is on target to graduate after three years. He would be draft eligible, but when I asked the coach I talk to once a year if he would still get athletic aid if he chose to stay a fourth year, he said sure he could do that but graduating early "is a great place to be for negotiating."

Why is that? It seemed to me you'd be in that spot of teams basically saying "yea, so you can come play for us for no money, or be done playing." Is it just because he could stay in school for that additional degree?

The reason it strengthens your negotiating position is because he still has years of college eligibility left.

LHP's Roady posted:
JCG posted:

I'm gonna make an offer -- Anybody's kid plays for the Staten Island Yankees or the Brooklyn Cyclones this summer, I will cook him and a buddy a home cooked meal. All they gotta do is come to Manhattan.  And I am a really good cook.

I have been laughing for the last five minutes. Thanks.

Besides JCG being a really good cook, he's also an excellent conversationalist.

Iowamom23 posted:

A slight diversion, but along the same topic — we recently learned that my son, who is in his second year, is on target to graduate after three years. He would be draft eligible, but when I asked the coach I talk to once a year if he would still get athletic aid if he chose to stay a fourth year, he said sure he could do that but graduating early "is a great place to be for negotiating."

Why is that? It seemed to me you'd be in that spot of teams basically saying "yea, so you can come play for us for no money, or be done playing." Is it just because he could stay in school for that additional degree?

Your son would have one more year left of eligibility, but all that might mean is that they might put $$ in the scholarship fund, the negotiating  point might be for the cost for grad school, one year vs 4th year in his major. This would be entirely different than receiving bonus $$$.

To be honest, I don't know how that works in this situation. Best advice is if it looks promising next year, seek advice of an advisor.

Last edited by TPM
LHP's Roady posted:

Now I am really confused. Son is developing rapidly, thus my original question, the longer he has to figure things out the better. But the clock is ticking, he is going to turn 21. The thinking when I originally posted was get to pro ball and work through the system with good pitching coaches (he is a blank slate and very coachable). Also the late movement on his fastball plays better with wood. Now the comments indicate that if you don't go in an early round of the draft it pigeonholes you for your career. Is that really a thing? Does it matter as much for LHP's?

There is a bias towards high round picks but the reason most late round picks fail is not bias against them but that they are usually less talented.

A late round pick might need to perform a little longer and better than a high rounder to get promoted but if he can really play and performs he can make it.

He shouldn't worry about a bias against him but whether he is good enough to play.

Why not try for a year or two?

 

 

 

Dominik85 posted:
LHP's Roady posted:

Now I am really confused. Son is developing rapidly, thus my original question, the longer he has to figure things out the better. But the clock is ticking, he is going to turn 21. The thinking when I originally posted was get to pro ball and work through the system with good pitching coaches (he is a blank slate and very coachable). Also the late movement on his fastball plays better with wood. Now the comments indicate that if you don't go in an early round of the draft it pigeonholes you for your career. Is that really a thing? Does it matter as much for LHP's?

There is a bias towards high round picks but the reason most late round picks fail is not bias against them but that they are usually less talented.

A late round pick might need to perform a little longer and better than a high rounder to get promoted but if he can really play and performs he can make it.

He shouldn't worry about a bias against him but whether he is good enough to play.

Why not try for a year or two?

 

 

 

You make a decent point, but there have been a lot of high round picks that end up being a bust. However, that does not mean they weren't given ampule time to prove they were over rated. I don't necessarily blame a club for doing this. They are trying to get a return on an investment. OP kid is a LHP that can touch mid 90's. That is great for him and I wish him the best, but the honest truth is the club probably has 3 kids from the DR that are projected to do the same. If they don't have much invested into him (my point about going in with leverage) it isn't going to take much for them to move on to the next guy.  

Why not secure a 2 year commitment at a D1, that has a decent pitching coach, get back into the game and improve your worth.

Then player might get some $$, and his last year of college paid for?

Last edited by TPM

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