What is the top hand's role in the swing?

The top hand is important to keep control of the bathead, to stay long through the ball, and if you have a great top hand, it allows for more power.

without an active top hand/rear arm, you'll have a bat that drags through the zone.

As the rear arm slots downward, it sets the position for the hands to rotate the barrel to the ball. Without an active top hand/rear arm, it is just being pulled through the zone by the front arm/front shoulder.

The rear arm movement up/down allows the batter to fill time and keep momentum when looking for one pitch (fastball/middle in) and getting something different (off speed/middle out).

I am not sure how usefull that would be as a cue if he isn't giving some instruction with it in practice.IMO,just saying be a top hand hitter would be little help.BUT,if he explains and teaches what he means in practice and uses it as a reminder,I can see it being a beneficial cue.

The above have given good explanations as to what the top hand does.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
I am not sure how usefull that would be as a cue if he isn't giving some instruction with it in practice.IMO,just saying be a top hand hitter would be little help.BUT,if he explains and teaches what he means in practice and uses it as a reminder,I can see it being a beneficial cue.

The above have given good explanations as to what the top hand does.

I agree that you have to be taught well or the top hand can be detrimental because if you use too much top hand or use it too early you will begin rolling over balls, not being able to hit curveballs, etc.

The top hand cue helps a batter swing hands to the ball. Think of the motion as a forehand swing. Palm to the ball.

Leading with the bottom hand would create a backhand swing. Backhand to the ball.

The backhand swing is instinctively used by players experimenting with switch hitting.

quote:

Originally posted by INshocker:
if you use too much top hand or use it too early you will begin rolling over balls

I have to challenge that wisdom.

Jack Mankin documents that premature rollover of the top wrist occurs because the elbow of the lead arm is too low.

Try this experiment. Make sure your lead-arm action is correct and take a full cut ... try your hardest to rollover your top wrist at contact. At full speed you'll find that as long as your lead-elbow is not too low that you'll resist premature wrist rollover without effort.

Too much talk about the hands and arms in the swing. The most important piece of the swing is the pivot and the hitter's lower half is the key to his hands.

All hitters have some degree of "push" in their pivot(rear leg). The greater the degree of push, the more the front side opens up and the hands are affected accordingly. By focusing on hands/arms/elbows etc., you are chasing symptoms of the problem instead of the cause. The legs should be tight, rear end out, back straight, knees slightly bent and slightly pointed together, keeping the tension between the knees like holding a ball, seperate (load), keeping your weight at approximately 50f/50r and let your pivot take your hands to the ball while hitting off a stiff front leg, staying square, with the front foot staying closed, not opening up until after contact and only as part of the deceleration phase.

While it is true what was said about the front elbow and it's effect on the hands rolling over, the main reason to keep the front elbow up is so that your hands can clear through the zone and "unfold" without having to open the front side. This keeps the swing linear. Push in the pivot leg causes a rotational process. Always, always, always, stay linear with the pivot leg acting like the scope of a rifle.

In what part of the lower body do you hold the bat?

Looks like this would be some video.

It is.......you should buy it. It called the "Five Simple Steps" by Rudy Jaramillo. (I know he's probably not in your league but he's a hitting instructor with some proven success.)

No post or written statement could explain the fundamentals of the swing. I attempted to give a summary of the basis for a complete swing with the emphasis on the lower half. Quincy, I have read many posts by you and the others on this site who have a great understanding of what a proper swing should look like. However, you cannot teach the swing like you say because you are focusing on the symptoms of the problems and not the causes.

How many MVP's, silver slugger award winners and MLB batting champions have you produced with your methods?

4egenball: Just drop it...it will go on forever.

4genball,I agree it all starts down low.When my son starts hitting ground balls in bp,I have to remind him to hit with his hips and legs instead of with his hands.It almost always results in hard line shots in the air to the outfield.My son is one of those that will make an immediate adjustment on cue when asked,his hitting instructor told me he has never seen a young 8-9 year old do that theway he does.


I do agree that the lead elbow being up is crucial but it does seem to naturally happen when the hips,legs and core are being used to drive the ball.

BUT,hands are important too.

quote:

Originally posted by Quincy:
The backhand swing is instinctively used by players experimenting with switch hitting.

Thank you Quincy! You just made me realize something I didn't think about. I'm working with my son on switch hitting and that is EXACTLY what he was doing. I stopped everything and just had him work one-hand top-hand drills for the otherside...and his progress has really jumped way ahead. Thank you.

The point I was making is that the lower body has no place in a discussion of the role of the top hand in hitting.

A thread based on the lower body or the entire swing would be the place to interject such beliefs and practices.

Lesterclan,

I leaned that from an old timer. I'll relay your thanks to him. Glad it helped.

quote:

Originally posted by 4genball:
the main reason to keep the front elbow up is so that your hands can clear through the zone and "unfold" without having to open the front side.

Could you please eplain this in greater detail?

quote:

Originally posted by Quincy:
The point I was making is that the lower body has no place in a discussion of the role of the top hand in hitting.

A thread based on the lower body or the entire swing would be the place to interject such beliefs and practices.

Probably not in "your" discussions as you abviously do not undertand the biomechanics of the swing.

The fact that you made the statement "the lower body has no place in a discussion of the role of the top hand in hitting" shows how uniformed and "little league" you are.

Everything about the swing starts and ends with the lower half....but I understand why you think the way you do....you are a symptoms guy like most all self professed "hitting instructors".

Also, I didn't realize you were the new "thread category" monitor. Did you get a corner office with your new position?

Okay Speedy, explain to the board what effect the lower body has in the role of the top hand in hitting.

Is it reeally too much to maintain a thread that does not meander from the title or question proposed?

Go back and read your book written by a guy who couldn't hit well enough to last in the game.

By the way, all the guys who played for Texas while he just happened to be there learned their trade before they ever met him.

Quincy,

If you want to get the training you so obviously need, go to www.leaguelineup.com/jbbc. You can contact one of the Jaramillo staff and they can hook you up.

Any thread that discusses hitting should give the right information and "symptom resolution" is not proper instruction. Amateur hitting instructors do not realize how much damage can be done to a young hitter by telling them things that will always produce bad habits. As an instructor, it is critical that you teach the student how to be his own coach. You do this by giving him an understanding of the root cause of his hitting problems, current and future. (After all Quincy, the hitter can't stop in the middle of the game and PM you to find out what they are doing wrong).

The lower half drives the hands and 90% of the problems with the hands stem from poor lower body mechanics. If you focus on the proper technique in your lower half, (the proper pivot/closed front side/square to the plate) the natural "hand/eye" ability of the athlete will take care of itself.

Regarding Rudy Jaramillo, once again you are obviously misinformed so you should go back and check your facts. Every other hitting coach in the history of Major League baseball has had players that had already "learned their trade" but they didn't produce hitters like Mr. Jaramillo. He will also be the only hitting instuctor ever inducted to the MLB Hall of Fame. His nephew Aaron runs the Jaramillo Baseball Club in Ft. Worth, Texas. Go to the web site above and see what success the "Jaramillo" has on hitters that haven't already "learned their trade". When you can take boys 14 - 15 years old and have them beating 18 year old teams with pitchers throwing in the mid to upper 80's with off speed, you must be doing something right. I have personally witnessed over the last two years, the transformation of over twenty five young men into polished, disciplined and productive hitters that make "mid at-bat" adjustments during the heat of the game.

Good bye Quincy.

quote:

All hitters have some degree of "push" in their pivot(rear leg).

quote:

The most important piece of the swing is the pivot and the hitter's lower half is the key to his hands.

4genball, can a hitter PUSH and PIVOT with their rear leg if their rear foot is in the air and being dragged forward like this Willie Mays swing?

You are correct. Many major leaguers don't do it correctly. The hip "should" open and the body rotate at contact, not before. If you broke down these swings, you would see that they are all doing it, just not perfectly and the hand eye coordination of a Major League hitter is incredible. This along with other elite athletic skills are compensatory.

Notice the head movement in each of these swings. If you push, your head moves forward and this speeds the ball up. Not an optimal process, agreed? Also check out two of the greatest of all time. Bonds and Manny.