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It obviously makes sense that if a ball club signs one ball player for more money than another ballplayer, the club has more of a interest in seeing their ball player that they have more money in succeed and might give him more opportunities to succeed. But occasionally you see a ball player, for example, signed in the 7th round for less money than a player signed in the 15th round. Does the round that a player truly matter to a ball club or is it money alone that matters to a ball club? I've wondered about this. 

Last edited by Dirk
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lol. Agree. But obviously it makes sense they are gonna give "more benefit of the doubt" to a kid they have 500grand in opposed to a kid with 50grand. But was just wondering why a kid might be taken in say the 7th round for 50,000 and another taked say in 15th round for 125,000. It would seem to me the club would have drafted them in opposite order. You see this time to time. Was just wondering if the round truly matters in this specific case. 

You may have a college Sr taken in the 7th round get much less than a HS kid taken in the 25th round. The Sr may have more present tools, less upside & no bargaining power (School is over). The HS kid can bargain. Giving up a scholarship, more projection, more potential upside = more $$.

Unless you are a first round pick or some special circumstance, both players will get a shot to play & fight their way through. The younger HS kid will get more time to develop.

Big $$ signings & First Round guys will get every opportunity to show they can't play.

Steve A. posted:

You may have a college Sr taken in the 7th round get much less than a HS kid taken in the 25th round. The Sr may have more present tools, less upside & no bargaining power (School is over). The HS kid can bargain. Giving up a scholarship, more projection, more potential upside = more $$.

Unless you are a first round pick or some special circumstance, both players will get a shot to play & fight their way through. The younger HS kid will get more time to develop.

Big $$ signings & First Round guys will get every opportunity to show they can't play.

Thanks Steve. It makes a little more sense now. The draft round can "also" indicate the present level of ability. 

Each of the first 10 rounds has a theoretical money amount assigned; assuming a club has used up its entire slot total on slot draftees, subsequent US draftees or FA can be signed for 100k without triggering some penalty to the signing team (roughly as penalties kick in at different percentages). If slot money is left over, it can be applied to give more than 100k.

For the most part, before a club uses a slot pick, it has a firm idea of the bonus demands of the player. Players with the most leverage AND skills generally command the biggest bonus. Thus a HS player with the best protectable skills will be offered a higher bonus then a college senior with the same skills. Clubs have learned to save slot money by drafting the top college seniors in late slot rounds and offering them 10 cents on the slot dollar. (Also remember this: if a slot draftee isn't signed, the club gets dinged for that slot amount and cannot wheel the money to other draftees. )

If a club wants to take a flyer on a HS kid but doesnt know for sure he can be signed (e.g., mo ey, school commitment), the club will draft him after slot rounds and use its slot savings to offer a greater then 100k bonus.

Back to the OP issue. IN GENERAL - AND EXCEPT FOR COLLLEGE SENIORS - bonus money and round do enter into the equation. it is NOT that a lower drafted/bonus player cant make it; its that the higher bonus/round gets more chances. (And, generally, you can see the difference between the skills of a high round  and a low rounder.)

So, all things being equal, a low round college sr should expect to be retired before the low round HS kid. (Of course, one may have a college degree while the other will never play college ball and needs to spend at least 4 years of full time study to get one.)

I have known 38th round college sr  picks rocket to AAA after 2 seasons- only to be cut after a few AAA outings; I know high slot picks to languish in low milb until their skills came together.

Lots of variables and no set of facts is the same in any case. 

Steve A. posted:

You may have a college Sr taken in the 7th round get much less than a HS kid taken in the 25th round. The Sr may have more present tools, less upside & no bargaining power (School is over). The HS kid can bargain. Giving up a scholarship, more projection, more potential upside = more $$.

These are from the first 6 rounds of the 2017 draft. All college seniors.

93. SEA - Wyatt Mills, RHP, Gonzaga $125,000 (Pick value: $579,800)
118. PIT - Jason Delay, C, Vanderbilt $100,000 (Pick value: $450,500)
124. STL - Kramer Robertson, SS, Louisiana State $150,000 (Pick value: $424,800)
140. ATL - Bruce Zimmerman, LHP, Mount Olive (N.C.) $10,000 (Pick value: $364,100)
167. CIN - Tyler Buffett, RHP, Oklahoma State $70,000 (Pick value: $280,900)
170. ATL - Jordan Rodgers, 3B, Tennessee $5,000 (Pick value: $273,700)
171. OAK - Logan Salow, LHP, Kentucky $100,000 (Pick value: $271,300)
180. KC - Tyler Zuber, RHP, Arkansas State $2,500 (Pick value: $251,700)
188. BAL - Mason McCoy, SS, Iowa $10,000 (Pick value: $235,700)

Goosegg posted:

Each of the first 10 rounds has a theoretical money amount assigned; assuming a club has used up its entire slot total on slot draftees, subsequent US draftees or FA can be signed for 100k without triggering some penalty to the signing team (roughly as penalties kick in at different percentages). If slot money is left over, it can be applied to give more than 100k.

For the most part, before a club uses a slot pick, it has a firm idea of the bonus demands of the player. Players with the most leverage AND skills generally command the biggest bonus. Thus a HS player with the best protectable skills will be offered a higher bonus then a college senior with the same skills. Clubs have learned to save slot money by drafting the top college seniors in late slot rounds and offering them 10 cents on the slot dollar. (Also remember this: if a slot draftee isn't signed, the club gets dinged for that slot amount and cannot wheel the money to other draftees. )

If a club wants to take a flyer on a HS kid but doesnt know for sure he can be signed (e.g., mo ey, school commitment), the club will draft him after slot rounds and use its slot savings to offer a greater then 100k bonus.

Back to the OP issue. IN GENERAL - AND EXCEPT FOR COLLLEGE SENIORS - bonus money and round do enter into the equation. it is NOT that a lower drafted/bonus player cant make it; its that the higher bonus/round gets more chances. (And, generally, you can see the difference between the skills of a high round  and a low rounder.)

So, all things being equal, a low round college sr should expect to be retired before the low round HS kid. (Of course, one may have a college degree while the other will never play college ball and needs to spend at least 4 years of full time study to get one.)

I have known 38th round college sr  picks rocket to AAA after 2 seasons- only to be cut after a few AAA outings; I know high slot picks to languish in low milb until their skills came together.

Lots of variables and no set of facts is the same in any case. 

It all makes sense now. Thanks for the reply! 

MidAtlanticDad posted:
Steve A. posted:

You may have a college Sr taken in the 7th round get much less than a HS kid taken in the 25th round. The Sr may have more present tools, less upside & no bargaining power (School is over). The HS kid can bargain. Giving up a scholarship, more projection, more potential upside = more $$.

These are from the first 6 rounds of the 2017 draft. All college seniors.

93. SEA - Wyatt Mills, RHP, Gonzaga $125,000 (Pick value: $579,800)
118. PIT - Jason Delay, C, Vanderbilt $100,000 (Pick value: $450,500)
124. STL - Kramer Robertson, SS, Louisiana State $150,000 (Pick value: $424,800)
140. ATL - Bruce Zimmerman, LHP, Mount Olive (N.C.) $10,000 (Pick value: $364,100)
167. CIN - Tyler Buffett, RHP, Oklahoma State $70,000 (Pick value: $280,900)
170. ATL - Jordan Rodgers, 3B, Tennessee $5,000 (Pick value: $273,700)
171. OAK - Logan Salow, LHP, Kentucky $100,000 (Pick value: $271,300)
180. KC - Tyler Zuber, RHP, Arkansas State $2,500 (Pick value: $251,700)
188. BAL - Mason McCoy, SS, Iowa $10,000 (Pick value: $235,700)

Thanks for examples! 

Dirk, As for your boy, I hope he gets a shot & called. If he is a LHP with 88-91 & some projection left & has shown he can miss bats he ultimately should get a chance. Realistically, for this year I would lower expectations & be pleasantly surprised. They may throw him in there late but the $$ offer would be relatively low as there have been no discussions pre draft.

He has time & skills so this is a good thing either way. Best of luck.

When you see a player signed for less than slot money he usually didn't have any or little leverage.  It’s a collefe senior who can sign or end his baseball career. Or a high school student the team knows really soesnt want ro go to college. 

When you see a player sign for more than slot the team is drafting him later than expected hoping he will sign rather than attend college. 

One year a kid in our area was headed for a top ACC. He said he wouldn't sign for less than 1.5M. The Red Sox had three round three picks that year. They drafted him using one of the picks and offered 1.3M He signed five minutes before midnight on the deadline day. 1.3M was late first round money that year. 

Someone on this board a few years ago had their son headed for the same ACC team. He was drafted in the 20th round and offered 950K. He signed.

In summary, signing bonus is the player’s perceived value. But leverage can impact the money offered. 

Last edited by RJM
Steve A. posted:

Dirk, As for your boy, I hope he gets a shot & called. If he is a LHP with 88-91 & some projection left & has shown he can miss bats he ultimately should get a chance. Realistically, for this year I would lower expectations & be pleasantly surprised. They may throw him in there late but the $$ offer would be relatively low as there have been no discussions pre draft.

He has time & skills so this is a good thing either way. Best of luck.

Thanks Steve. He plays at a JUCO for a former major leaguer and he projects my son 90-93 from the left side by the end of his junior year. He's happy at his school.  Loves JUCO ball. Has had a lot of high D1 interest and will likely be committed by the end of the summer. So it's all good.

Steve A. says it all:  " Big $$ signings & First Round guys will get every opportunity to show they can't play."  If you extrapolate this then can also think low round guys will get opportunities to show they CAN play.  Big difference I feel.  A tremendous amount of pressure is put on a player knowing he must do well to remain or advance.  First rounders ($$) are put in the spotlight and must now lose it.  Less pressure if at the top.  For example, top rounder may one game have 4 K's and he will be there the next day.  Low round reserve may have same 4 K's and it may be a while before he gets in again.

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