Does not anyone else find it interesting that the same RAG in SF has all the so-called info ?
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Byrd can pitch and there are not many solid pitchers around---
That is what good dentistry can do for you. Just ask major league players like Byrd, Williams, Ankiel, Guillen, and Valdez.
quote:Does not anyone else find it interesting that the same RAG in SF has all the so-called info ?
Yes TR, I find it very interesting. The Chronicle writers (same guys that wrote the Bonds book) seem to have a source deep inside MLB and closely connected to the Mitchell investigation. Since Deep Throat and Curveball have already been taken, I wonder what they call him? Root Canal? Uncle Charlie? Wrinkles? FerNANDRO? HolyCow? Sellout? How 'bout SecretBuddy or Beerman?
The MLB post-season awards are going to face some stiff competition for headlines this year.
I got it! It's...
OPERATION BIGDOME
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
And if our son's did it pretty much the right way, by following the advice of the orthopedist, not a dentist,and did it through hours upon hours of PT and strength and conditioning as opposed to HGH and the expenditure of thousands of dollars
That my friend is one heck of a tough decision to be a parent providing guidance for. I can't imagine having to tell my son to do the right thing and potentially throw your dreams and aspirations out the window while others are getting shady prescriptions to get healthy.
Honestly, I have no clue what I'd say. I'm confident I'd advise him of the "right" and "wrong" course of action though. What would you say in that situation?
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
And if our son's did it pretty much the right way, by following the advice of the orthopedist, not a dentist,
That, right there, in the proverbial nutshell is exactly why I say I want to see the policy be Get Caught, You're Outta There. Being a pro ballplayer is an earned priviledge. If you've got an injury/condition verified by your doctor AND the team doctor --- you get scripts.
If you're (ahem) self-medicating, you're playing Russian (now there's an apt term) Roulette with your career.
Yes, it is tough to find good pitching. (And, apparently, honest people of character in MLB on the field and behind the desks.) But there are good pitchers, players, and hitters buried in MiLB right now so 7 figures can be awarded to Better Living Through Chemistry-enhanced Superior Genetics Believers.
Grrrr.....
Beezer,
I fully agree with you that these are tough, very tough. IMO, what Cleveland just did, for a large section of the player population is to justify every action of it's player, as Byrd reported them.
It justified his going around baseball rules in numerous ways to obtain HGH, it justified obtaining this from a dentist, it justified the representation of this being for a severe pituitary tumor. It justified his not identifying the condition in advance as baseball requires and having medical oversight and approval of the process of treatment. Justified everything to the tune of $7,500,000.
So let me complicate this a bit further.
I recently talked with a young man who is at the end of his career at about age 25-27. He has had baseball related injuries that resulted in surgery to two different parts of his body. After a very lengthy effort with the team trainer and doctor, it was concluded his residuals precluded his return to baseball.
He was offered less than $5,000 for a full settlement of his baseball injury related problems, including any medical care those might require during his lifetime.
Certainly, there isn't any guarantee this younger player would ever make MLB. But, from where I view things, it certainly increases the incentives players will make decisions of the type that resulted in a $7,500,000 "reward."
I fully agree with you that these are tough, very tough. IMO, what Cleveland just did, for a large section of the player population is to justify every action of it's player, as Byrd reported them.
It justified his going around baseball rules in numerous ways to obtain HGH, it justified obtaining this from a dentist, it justified the representation of this being for a severe pituitary tumor. It justified his not identifying the condition in advance as baseball requires and having medical oversight and approval of the process of treatment. Justified everything to the tune of $7,500,000.
So let me complicate this a bit further.
I recently talked with a young man who is at the end of his career at about age 25-27. He has had baseball related injuries that resulted in surgery to two different parts of his body. After a very lengthy effort with the team trainer and doctor, it was concluded his residuals precluded his return to baseball.
He was offered less than $5,000 for a full settlement of his baseball injury related problems, including any medical care those might require during his lifetime.
Certainly, there isn't any guarantee this younger player would ever make MLB. But, from where I view things, it certainly increases the incentives players will make decisions of the type that resulted in a $7,500,000 "reward."
just did the math & the only conclusion possible is that the Indians front office are on drugs ...
will they be tested?
he'll be paid about $280,000 per start,
or about $50,000 per inning,
or about $3000 per pitch
will they be tested?
he'll be paid about $280,000 per start,
or about $50,000 per inning,
or about $3000 per pitch
That is obscene.
Thanks for doing the math.
How much does it cost to go to a major league game?
Thanks for doing the math.
How much does it cost to go to a major league game?
Okay, so many of us here have sons currently on MLB teams, in Milb, college, hs and below.
What do we say to them as a collecitve? What do you teach your players/kids? As they progress, is it ok to_______________ fill in the blank. Honestly, what are you telling them at each level. When does it become ok to cross the lines...?
Obviously when they are 18 and older, they are making their own decisions - how do we guide them at that point to stay away from ______________???
What do we say to them as a collecitve? What do you teach your players/kids? As they progress, is it ok to_______________ fill in the blank. Honestly, what are you telling them at each level. When does it become ok to cross the lines...?
Obviously when they are 18 and older, they are making their own decisions - how do we guide them at that point to stay away from ______________???
good question, it can't be an easy task as evidenced by all the players on the investigation/suspension lists are NOT orphansquote:how do we guide them
Bee, now every time I see him pitch, all I will see is $ . strike 3k, ball 3k, strike 3k.
And when he walks someone, 12k down the
And when he walks someone, 12k down the
This is all a very complicated issue and I'm not sure what the answers are.
What do people think should happen to someone like Byrd? Or the "many" others who will surface in the future? Do we give these people the death sentence?
Should organizations just ignore these players and not make an offer? Or should we just turn the page and move forward, trying to clean up the game?
These players are accused of using or purchasing performance enhancing drugs. The arguments are...
1. They Cheated!
2. It is bad for their health
3. It sets a bad example for our youth
4. Other
1. They cheated - Cheating by itself goes on in nearly every sport and has a long history in baseball. I once asked a player, "Would you cheat in order to win a game"? His reply was, "Not only would I cheat to win a game, but I wouldn't want to play with someone who wouldn't"! That is how competitive some people can be. Not saying it's right, but maybe it's the degree of cheating that counts the most.
2. It is bad for their health - Well I have a hard time buying into this theory, even if it were true. Tobacco kills people, alcohol kills people. Lots of things are bad for health yet many of those things are accepted by the general public.
3. It sets a bad example for our youth - This is probably the #1 most important item. To me, this is the biggest problem.
4. Other - ??????
What do people think should happen to someone like Byrd? Or the "many" others who will surface in the future? Do we give these people the death sentence?
Should organizations just ignore these players and not make an offer? Or should we just turn the page and move forward, trying to clean up the game?
These players are accused of using or purchasing performance enhancing drugs. The arguments are...
1. They Cheated!
2. It is bad for their health
3. It sets a bad example for our youth
4. Other
1. They cheated - Cheating by itself goes on in nearly every sport and has a long history in baseball. I once asked a player, "Would you cheat in order to win a game"? His reply was, "Not only would I cheat to win a game, but I wouldn't want to play with someone who wouldn't"! That is how competitive some people can be. Not saying it's right, but maybe it's the degree of cheating that counts the most.
2. It is bad for their health - Well I have a hard time buying into this theory, even if it were true. Tobacco kills people, alcohol kills people. Lots of things are bad for health yet many of those things are accepted by the general public.
3. It sets a bad example for our youth - This is probably the #1 most important item. To me, this is the biggest problem.
4. Other - ??????
quote:1. They cheated - Cheating by itself goes on in nearly every sport and has a long history in baseball. I once asked a player, "Would you cheat in order to win a game"? His reply was, "Not only would I cheat to win a game, but I wouldn't want to play with someone who wouldn't"! That is how competitive some people can be. Not saying it's right, but maybe it's the degree of cheating that counts the most.
I completely understand what you're saying, but it makes me feel kind of squeemish...doesn't it you? There's a cute little balk move (most of you probably know it) that RHPs can use in a 1- or 2-umpire system that is almost never caught during the game...except by opposing coaches. My older son used it often in HS (he learned it at a college camp) and picked off a lot of runners with it. Although I like it and think its kind of cool, I could not bring myself to teach it to young kids on our younger son's teams as I felt it set a bad example by me because it really is "cheating."
quote:3. It sets a bad example for our youth - This is probably the #1 most important item. To me, this is the biggest problem.
Yep, this IS the problem. I'm not so sure 12-year olds are much affected by this...but what about the HS player who is trying to figure out how to add that little extra bit to get to the next level? I don't think the concept of "cheating" comes into their mind...nor would they would take the chance because they idolize a big leaguer. Its more of an "example of how to get there." That alone makes it a big problem to me.
I am of the mind that we need to move on. But it is my understanding (just from reading some articles...which can defintely be misleading?) that MLB still has a ways to go to get really serious about all of this. If that is the case, more than anything I'd just like MLB to get serious about stopping it.
I will repeat what I have said before: we cannot change what has happened but we can, hopefully, change what will occur in the future. Give them all a two year grace period to get clean--we cannot change what has happened nor will we ever know the total number of players who have have "used"
Two years hence there will be no excuses---you cross the line you are gone---no more with hunts
Two years hence there will be no excuses---you cross the line you are gone---no more with hunts
Another thought---Mickey Mantle was followed by devils from within---he was the first male in his family to live thru his 40's---if he did not drink as he did and whatever else would he have been the player he was---for him you could easily say that alcohol was a performance enhancer for him but was and is still totally legal
TR - If Mantle did not drink, he would have been even better. Drinking hinders athletic performance.
Tripledad
Not in his case--- between his knees and his fear of impending death he needed something to get over the "hump"
Not in his case--- between his knees and his fear of impending death he needed something to get over the "hump"
Alcohol is a depressant, not a stimulant. Once it enters the blood stream and hits the brain, it slows reaction time, it doesn't speed it up. Some may be able to play with an alcohol hangover (which some still do today, as was Mantle's case), but I would be willing to bet, literally no one can play while drunk.