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A FB is effective largely by it's velo and also (but generally less so) by it's location and movement.  A CB is effective largely by it's movement and location and also (but less so) by it's velo.

A good velo FB will keep hitters honest and make decent off-speed offerings more effective.  Without a good velo FB, other off-speed offerings are less effective.  The hitter knows there is time to sit.

Movement and effectiveness of a CB can often be adjusted with minor tweaks to grip, release, arm angle, etc.  Minor tweaks won't change an 84 mph FB into a 90+ mph FB.

A 90 FB during recruiting is likely to become 92-94 in college.  An 84 FB is much less likely to become 92-94 in college.

And on and on...  a good velo base is what sets up everything else.

This is not to say that a P with a particularly sharp CB can't be effective leaning on that pitch. 

I think Trevor Bauer would take the 2500 rpm CB kid. TB was said in this podcast from Jeff Passan how he wants to build an average mid major into a powerhouse pitching school when he is 45.
It is a fascinating interview that IMO is well worth the time to hear his thoughts on a variety of subjects. It was the first thing that really made me a fan. It is classic Bauer and so good. From why he won’t sign a long term deal (it involves getting shot in the junk with a paintball gun) to how many cy young’s he wants to win to the espn body issue. Funny and informative.

@used2lurk posted:

I think Trevor Bauer would take the 2500 rpm CB kid. TB was said in this podcast from Jeff Passan how he wants to build an average mid major into a powerhouse pitching school when he is 45.
It is a fascinating interview that IMO is well worth the time to hear his thoughts on a variety of subjects. It was the first thing that really made me a fan. It is classic Bauer and so good. From why he won’t sign a long term deal (it involves getting shot in the junk with a paintball gun) to how many cy young’s he wants to win to the espn body issue. Funny and informative.

Trevor Bauer overrates himself.  I think most would agree with Cabbage.

For those of you that did not listen or heard what he said in the podcast he (my paraphrased version) said:

I take all the kids with great off speed stuff (ie 2500 spin rate CB) that never get recruited by P5 cuz not enough velo and encourage them all to redshirt freshman year. Do nothing teach/train VELO and then how to pitch/compete. When they are ready to pitch sophomore year they all will throw 8-12 mph harder, still have dominating off-speed, and his staff would "punch out the f-ing world" on their way to the NCAA regionals and potentially beyond. He would do nothing with hitters and defense...just the pitching staff.

@used2lurk posted:

For those of you that did not listen or heard what he said in the podcast he (my paraphrased version) said:

I take all the kids with great off speed stuff (ie 2500 spin rate CB) that never get recruited by P5 cuz not enough velo and encourage them all to redshirt freshman year. Do nothing teach/train VELO and then how to pitch/compete. When they are ready to pitch sophomore year they all will throw 8-12 mph harder, still have dominating off-speed, and his staff would "punch out the f-ing world" on their way to the NCAA regionals and potentially beyond. He would do nothing with hitters and defense...just the pitching staff.

You realize he's never recruited a player or coached a game, right?  I get that he's got strong opinions and is a decent (barely above major league average, based on WAR) pitcher, but I don't think 300 D1 coaches are wrong.  You can't teach velocity, regardless of what he claims.

@Good Knight posted:

Interesting discussion. Our HS coach does not let my guy throw a CB the first time thru the batting order. FB and CU that both look pretty much the same.

It seems to work but I am not a coach and do not interfere.

But I also do not understand if this is the right thing to do or not.

No cookie cutter approach is right for every game situation - or for any pitcher. If the opposing team can’t catchup to your pitchers FB you are doing them a favor by throwing something else. The reverse is true too. If the opposing team is all over your pitchers FB, and that’s all you feature first time thru the lineup, there is usually a different pitcher on the mound second time thru. Hard and fast rules about how to pitch are a mistake IMO. Pitching is about making adjustments- especially if the initial plan isn’t working. Sometimes those adjustments need to be made in the first inning or else you are behind 3-0 before you know what happened. I’ve seen it happen way too many times.

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