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What would you do?

M Mom2006Member
This is long, but I need to vent!

My son is a HS Senior this year and is set to graduate in May. He signed a NLI with a top DI school during the early signing period as a LH Pitcher. He would go today, if he could. He has received All State, All Region and many other awards for his Freshman, Sophomore & Junior years. The coaching at the school started off pretty good (our son's freshman year was this coach's first year as head coach). He committed to us that he would upgrade the team and be more competitive. We decided to stay (other factors were as important as it is a small, christian school and his dad and I both graduated from there also). Freshman & Sophomore years were ok. We would have liked more commitment but were overall ok with the program. His Junior year was a disaster. The coach became lazy, turned his back on his batters and would not give signals, and backed away from relationships with any of the players. In the meantime, he discouraged any outside instruction. I can't explain it, so don't ask.

Last Fall, we found out that the coach had been low-balling the pitch count since the beginning of his coaching career. My son made the decision at that point to not play his senior year. He had a "stress reaction" at the end of last summer. The doctor said that it was a progressive injury caused by "over-pitching". The coach is not a happy person, to say the least.

Last summer, our son was identified by the Major League Scouting Bureau as a prospect. We have received questionnaires from a few ML clubs and found out by accident that at least one club rep called the high school and talked with the coach. The conversation between the two was not complimentary of our son.

We have instructed the school to not allow any more contact between "post highschool" recruiting personnel and the coach. I am sick about this. My son is a great kid with a God given gift. He is resigned to the fact that he will not play his senior year and appears to be ok with his decision.

We have had the appropriate conversations (along with other parents) with the administration, but to no avail.

We are now looking forward his summer team.

Any advice??? Thanks for letting me vent!
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TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
He as signed a NLI as per your post and you have MLB scouts talking to you

So what if the HS coach is not part of the plan !

I am not a pitchers parent but most parents of pitchers at the HS level that I know have an plus or minus pitch count in their heads-- were you not at the game watching__ how much did he , the coach low ball the pitch count/

To me I hear sour grapes about something--- what is missing ?

Please explain
tychcotychco1,000+ posts
TRH and Mom06,

I would agree if it were a 15-20 pitch total for the season, but does she mean 15-20 pitches per outing? If so, that might add up throughout a season. Having said that, I have never been an advocate of quitting teams...it sets a bad precedent.

In any case, Mom06, since you all made the decision you made, I wouldn't think anymore about the HS team and just look forward to his next stop and focus on preparing him for that. He will still have his summer team to prepare him for the fall in college.
BeezerBeezer1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Mom2006:
Any advice??? Thanks for letting me vent!

I'm not quite sure what advice you're seeking since he's decided not to play HS ball his Sr year, he's all set for a summer team, he's signed the NLI at a top D1 school and is on the radar of some MLB scouts. Many people would love to have your problems. It seems more like you needed to vent....which is perfectly acceptible. But like TR said, maybe we're missing something here.
Last edited by Beezer
B Bee>1,000+ posts
well, you do have a few options

you could run track & train - oops, a lefty(?), forget track walk

anyway, if there is pro interest & you are in playing shape, there ARE "pre draft workouts"

PG has one, as do many pro teams (closed/invite only)

of course you will be at a disadvantage, because there may be some teams interested who are unknown to you at this time & are assuming they can communicate thru the HS coach

but, scouts DO occsionally hear of HS situations so bad that a prospect does not play


that said, I sense some tension here - what's the big deal??
ya never played for a bad coach??

even if it's as bad as you think, I would just use it as a learning/growth/educational experience - "playing for a jerk" 101


also, Praying about it can help - but be open to your prayers changing YOU, not the coach

wishing you the best


btw, exactly what is a stress reaction??



.
Last edited by Bee>
L lafmom5,000+ posts
I always have such a hard time relating to stories like these, so I'm not sure that I can really put myself in your shoes. We adored son's HS coach - he was and is a caring man that we were grateful to have as a part of our lives.

I guess my concern in reading this post is that your son will miss his HS senior season. That was just such a special year that I cannot imagine a young man missing that part of his life. Have you sat with the coach and discussed his viewpoints and your concerns with this situation? I would assume he's probably anxious to keep your son on the team too and would welcome discussion.
04and1004and10100+ posts
your son's mental health and physical health are what's important. He has already signed his NLI so his future is secure so have him heal up and get ready for summer. His colege coach will thank you for not rushing him into competition with a sore arm.

PG has some spring events and possibly a league that he could pitch in the spring.

Beleive it or not, not all HS coaches have your son's best interest at heart. Sad but true.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
Mom2006,
Cliché time. Water under the bridge. Time to move on. Look to the future. No harm done. As far as your son’s baseball future I don’t see this as a problem. Obviously since he has signed an NLI, his college scholarship and roster spot are reserved. As far as professional exposure goes I’m sure he will miss a little during the high school season but summer ball is crawling with pro scouts in the Memphis area. My son played for Dulin’s 18u for three years (2000-01-02) and I know that professional scouts abound in the Memphis area. If your son chooses to ignore his NLI and has the talent and the desire to turn pro out of high school, every scout within 100 miles already knows this.
Best of Luck!
Fungo
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
noidea
I am sorry but someone has to explain to me exactly what this post is about. And I am not teh only one who is confused.

I am getting the following: son signed with a good school, now a prospect for the draft, son was hurt because coach didn't watch pitch count and he was overpitched by him (were you not aware), son said he would not play because coach didn't get better players for teh pitchers or at least offer good instruction.
Cosch is bad mouthing player. Son might miss out on the draft. Is that correct?
Last edited by TPM
20dad20dad1,000+ posts
not trying to be a touchhole here, but your sons ok with his future but what about the team?sounds like he's a stud and losing him will hurt the rest?i think his mental health and what not are important but what about the team thing?will he be sorry he missed the sr season?just some things that run through my head but will he be remembered as a great player?or whatever?............... i think bee has a point nothing to lose.why not do it and count your own pitches. good luck what ever you choose
M mifdad10+ posts
Your son should make every attempt to play HS ball this spring if you feel he has a chance to be drafted in '06 and that is his goal. ML scouts are very busy during this time and he could fall off their radar (for this year) if they don't see him play.

In our area, a case like this could be petitioned before the state athletic board for the clearance to play for a different school. It sounds like a hardship situation exists and may be provable using (among others) the negative things said to the scout.

You should deal with it soon though, spring is coming. Otherwise, relax and have him train for summer and college.
M MOUNDMASTER100+ posts
Somethings just not right here or I'm reading it wrong...

1. Your son recieved many awards including his junior year.
Him or the team must have done pretty well.

2. He signed a NLI w/ a top DI school.
I'm sure some colleges talked to coach and got good reports

3. The coach commited to US and WE dicided to stay.
Did you give him a ultimatium?

4. He had a "stress reaction" at the end of the summer.
I'm guessing he played for a summer team and pitched .. but this was the HS coachs fault from May?

5. The coach discouraged any outside instruction.
Maybe outside coaching instruction (from parents)
6. The coach became lazy.
Was he sleeping in the dugout?

7. The coach is not a happy person.
He's there to coach not show his pearly whites.

8. We dicides to stay
We have instructed
We have had the appropriate conversations
We are looking forward to his summer team

Lotta WE'S there.

Maybe I'm wrong here but these things just come to mind after reading this post
Last edited by MOUNDMASTER
T Texbbfan10+ posts
I hear a little double talk here. Most of the time the majority of posters on this site say "parents keep out of the coaches business" then one parent does and then she hears "didn't you keep track of the pitch count.” I am a pitcher's mother. We don't get involved with our son and his HS coach and we do not keep pitch counts. Either you trust your coach and your son's ability to tell you how he is doing or not. However, when that trust is violated, as it may have been in this situation, what is a player and his parents to do. This is a coach who most likely wouldn’t listen to the parents anyway if he manipulates the pitch count to win games. This sounds more like a difficult decision that was made by concerned parents with a concerned player who wants to continue to play after HS, into college and maybe as a professional. We parents of pitchers worry about our pitcher's arms constantly. If you don't have a pitcher for a son, you could never imagine what we go through. Only through hard work, concerned good coaches both in summer league and HS and a great instructor, we have been injury free at my house and my son is a senior. But, kudos to you Mom2006 for making a very tough decision for the future of your son and good luck to you. And for the others that just don’t understand Mom2006’s initial post, it starts off “I need to vent
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
MoundMaster, nice post. I'd be interested in finding out how you learned that the high school coach was "lowballing" the pitch counts. If your son has thrown all summer long, what is the accountability for the summer coach? Since it is summer, what did your son do during the summer for arm maintenance? Naturally, if it is true that the coach is lying about pitch count, I wouldn't trust him with my son's arm. Aren't you keeping those as well? Most of my parents do and I'd say that they coincide with our extremely well. Heck, we encourage our parents to do so.
B Bee>1,000+ posts
quote:
by mom: He signed a NLI with a top DI school during the early signing period as a LH Pitcher. He would go today, if he could.
take the GED and enroll then, you have already been accepted Smile - - not much sympathy here



it reads like threats were implied to change schools each hs year - what's with that?

I can't even guess what "coach low-balls" the pitch count means -
the normal case for counting pitches is a sub with a clipboard & clicker -
who is prolly also keeping tabs on the chicks in the stands - get him a golf pencil (no eraser)

I hear ya tho about the stress reaction - when mrs bee> gets one - LOOK OUT! Eek


.
Last edited by Bee>
M MOUNDMASTER100+ posts
Texbbfan,
I am the father of two pitchers that have gotten partial rides to play in college. Pitch count is something any pitchers parents should know about. This is a great way to tell if you can trust the coach. Mom2006 admitted she did'nt pay attention at the games as she was busy coversing. But now she knows everything and has'nt stayed out of the coaches business.
Lowballed pitch count, turned back on batters , he's lazy, bad mouthed my kid. This sounds like all HEAR SAY from another source. You say kudos to Mom for making a tough decision for her son, Mom said her son made the decision. I tend to agree with you though. I think that choice is terribly wrong. If her son is being looked at by ML Scouts and wants to get drafted in June then scouts better see him playing HS ball. Summer ball just gets going in June.Also, scouts don't like quitters. Another thought about this post is maybe all this hear say is from another jealous parent whos kid is'nt playing so much. I have coached from LL to legion ball and I've seem some pretty sharp parents when it comes to stirring the pot to making sure some players or coaches don't suceed.
SmokeySmokey500+ posts
There is tremendous anxiety associated with being a pitcher’s parent.. nervous 15-20 pitch differentials can be a huge issue if the pitcher is fatigued. Assuming his age to be 16-18 that normally is 90 to 100 pitches. Some error to the side of caution and put it as low as 80. There are a lot of variables that go into determining pitcher overuse; frequency of play, type of pitches thrown, velocity of pitches, throwing mechanics, pitchers age and physical development, and pitch count. The “stress reaction” may be the result of one of these other variables, other than pitch count, like mechanics or type of pitches. I would hate to think of forfeiting my son’s senior year over a pitch count “misunderstanding”. noidea Sounds like there is more going on…… lightbul
D dbg_fan1,000+ posts
I recall a certain LH pitcher from DFW who had a similar set of circumstances to yours. Signed NLI to top D1 college, ran into philosophy issues with HS coach (high pitch counts), and eventually left his HS team at the start of Sr spring season. Player also had pro interest & scouts following him.

This young man got his spring innings in by pitching in a PG weekend league in IA. You might look into that.
denisr400denisr400500+ posts
Far too many posters jump on players or parents when there is a problem with hs coaches.
I think the huge majority of coaches are knowledgeable,fair, and care about their players. My kid was lucky with coaches. Sure, some didn't teach as much or as well as others but all cared about their players & their health.
A tiny fraction of coaches are maybe there for the wrong reasons,some lack knowledge, and some don't care. The worst are all of those. If your kid plays for one of them it can be a truly miserable existence. Make no mistake, they are out there.
In this case, if the description of coach is accurate, I'd still have your son try and play.
Doesn't sound like your son needs or would want instruction from the coach. Simply tell him, a.d, or whomever you can get thru to that he has a set pitch count, have someone monitor it strictly and see what happens.
Lots of kids and/or parents hate the coach. The old saying "you still hate the coach and now your not playing the game you love" applies. He may not eventually like his college coach either but he's there to get an education & play ball. I wouldn't let anyone ruin that unless it's a truly awful situation & his health is abused.
We could be a bit more understanding as not all parents know or played the game or have any idea what to do when their kid blossoms into a stud player.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I think this is a great topic and one that shows that there are things to be learned.

First, we don't really know ALL of the circumstances and poster has not returned to expalin anything, we may have misunderstood soemt things.

But brings up good points.
Parents of younger players reading this can learn a few things.
We can't always be there to watch our sons play, and if we are we are sometimes distracted. I
I feel the end responsibility lies within the parent for watching pitch counts. If your son plays for 2-3 different coaches in a years time (incorporating the 3 seasons in order spring, summer, fall) you need to help son keep track so he can inform other coaches. For example is a max inning count is 130 for teh year, and most has gone to theS, you know you must pay attention to the teams. Any coach will use a pitcher up as much as they can to win, so if his pitch counts and innings were high, then you need to consider other options for summer or fall.
Scouts come to watch the player. They couldn't care less if the team wins of not. Even in a disasterous game, scouts can see things that we don't consider, how they handle tough situations, make up, etc.
Many coaches do not give instruction, and do it on purpose. I know my son's HS coach gave him no instruction because heelt that he has a sund basis for mechanics and his pitches. He always said that his college coach could work on the corrections. What we expected he did, he worked with players as a team. That was his job, not to give individualized instruction.

As ai said this is a great example of things gone bad, withnot putting the blame on parent or coach.

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