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What's Best?

P PlayWithHeart10+ posts
What's best for a 12 year old?

Play on a highly competitive team that competes nationally, but kid sits the bench quite a bit and plays positions he's not ever played before (left/right field) and team doesn't practice very much as a team (players are spread out geographically and practice about once a week), professional coaching, good because loaded with studs.

Or.......play on a team that practices 3 times a week, coaches who played college ball (not professional), play competitive local ball (MAJOR-select), kid always plays and plays mostly shortstop, catcher, pitcher, and centerfield?

???????????
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ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by Doughnutman:
Option number 2 for me. If he isn't good enough to start, why go through the expenses in money, time, and frustation? Good coaching, having fun, staying healthy and playing time are all that matter IMO. If you can get it locally you should be good to go.

Totally agree. The practice time alone is worth its weight in gold. 12 year olds need to play. Kids can be developed locally imho as long as they play.
Last edited by ClevelandDad
WklinkWklink500+ posts
Number 2. Competing nationally doesn't teach a thing to a kid if he doesn't get a chance to play. Sure he gets a uniform and he can brag that he is on 'THE TEAM' but ultimately his baseball skills will not improve. He will stagnate and I suspect he will not have much fun just sitting there.

If he plays for team 2 he will have much more practice, much more interaction on the field and off the field with his teammates, much more experience actually playing the game. Coaches that have played at the Collegeate level are very good, better than most coaches and he should be able to learn a lot.

This one is a no brainer to me and I am a father of a 12 year old.

One more thing: Ask your son. What does he want to do? Last year my son played on a team that was frankly below his talent level because he wanted to be there to both play with his friends and hopefully help them win more games than they normally would. I went along with it although I personally thought a top tier team would have been a better fit for him. This year he decided that travel ball is what he wants to do so we are going that route.

Get his input, and don't try to force him to make one decision or the other. Let him know your opinions and make sure he himself voices the pros and cons to both but get his unfiltered opinion.
S 27"sDad100+ posts
I would echo Wklink and the others: First, ask your son which he would prefer, and, second, hope that it is option 2. The playing time at a decent local level will help his development far more than the bench on a national powerhouse. At 12, he needs to be playing, and learning, the game...not watching his team bring home medals from national tourneys. jmho.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
In the pre high school years development is most important. Playing and developing will take the kid further. Besides, no one remembers the preteen heros by high school.

Playing on a national team at 12U is a huge waste of money. It doesn't matter what the coaches backgrounds are if the team doesn't practice a lot. At 12U it's easy to win without coaching by recruiting the biggest physical early bloomers.

Don't worry about what position your son plays at twelve years old. He only needs to learn to be a baseball player. Chances are he'll be playing a different position by high school and almost definitely by college ball.

My son was predominantly a catcher in 12U travel and LL all-stars. He played short for two years in middle school and JV ball as a high school freshman. He moved to third to start on varsity as a sophomore. This year he's going to play center. Players play where their team needs them.
Last edited by RJM
P PlayWithHeart10+ posts
Thanks to all of you for your thoughts on the matter. This has really helped me alot. I've heard
others say that being on a highly competitive team is important because playing against better competition will get you better. Also, have heard that always being "THE STAR" on the team is not good because sometimes it keeps kids from developing work ethic in order to get better. That doesn't apply in this case because my son has always pushed himself and worked very hard on his own. Everything you've said makes perfectly good sense to me.

Another thing is the $. We may be going to Orlando two weeks in a row to compete in two different tournaments and a few other out of state tournaments. Can just imagine going over there and spending all that $ for my kid to sit the bench. Oh...and also didn't mention in previous email that this team brings in two players from long distances (one from out of state) to play in tournaments. They don't practice with the team. Yes, they are studs....big kids who've hit puberty. My son is the smallest on the team and hasn't hit that stage yet.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Oh...and also didn't mention in previous email that this team brings in two players from long distances (one from out of state) to play in tournaments. They don't practice with the team. Yes, they are studs....big kids who've hit puberty.
The teams that do this stuff will bring in more outsiders if needed to win and think nothing of throwing a dedicated, but less talented player under the bus. The team you're describing isn't about development. It's on a trophy hunt.
Last edited by RJM
D Doughnutman1,000+ posts
Play with heart. Being the best on a team also has its good side. Learning to be the number 3 hitter, having high expectations and achieving them teaches a kid to be used to the pressure. Sounds like your kid is all right. As long as his head is OK, he will be OK. Sounds like he has that covered.

And my kid is a fly in kid on occasion. No trophy hunting. The best want to play against the best. The kids on the team know that if you aren't the best you will sit on the bench. Excellent motivation to work hard IMO.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
And my kid is a fly in kid on occasion. No trophy hunting. The best want to play against the best. The kids on the team know that if you aren't the best you will sit on the bench.
I don't fault the kid for wanting to play. I fault the coaches for inviting the kids and not playing their committed players. My son has been the invited player. He bumped a player off short and leadoff. There was a domino effect for positions and in the lineup. The ticked off parents were the shortstop's parents and the parents of the kid bumped out of the lineup. I wasn't comfortable being there even though it was the coaches who screwed their kids.

I never let my son be a mercenary player again unless a team was short players. Then I asked the coach to play him in the missing player's position and bat him last.

Pitching is adifferent scenario. In a challenging tournament there's no such thing as too much pitching. As long as the long time rostered pitchers get their opportunities there's nothing wrong with using extra pitchers.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
I never let my son be a mercenary player again unless a team was short players. Then I asked the coach to play him in the missing player's position and bat him last.

RJM - You and I have had our differences but I respect your opinion. I have not heard this type of advice before but I believe it to be excellent.

I believe people need to develop humility with this sport. You may be the fly-in player today, but the also-ran player tomorrow. My son played on a local city travel team that rarely traveled outside the county and even more rarely traveled outside the state. We occasionally came across teams who used fly-in or mercenary players and it seemd to do more harm than good. I guess with pitching it is a little different if the player is brought in to pitch in the later rounds of a tournament but with position players it seems to cause lots and lots of hard feelings - and rightly so imho.

Here is a secret. Great players who love the game will become great players. Their quest may be accelerated somewhat by playing against better competition but a great player can be developed in Rhode Island just as assuredly as in Florida, Texas, or California. I believe part of being a great player is learning how to win and being a great teammate. Although winning should never be the priority at the younger ages, it is at the end of the day why we even participate in sports imho. I think your sons can learn more in the pursuit of winning with their teammates than they can ever learn in victory with mercenary players. I expect some disagreement on that assertion but that is the way I feel about it.
fillsfanfillsfan1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
quote:
I never let my son be a mercenary player again unless a team was short players. Then I asked the coach to play him in the missing player's position and bat him last.

RJM - You and I have had our differences but I respect your opinion. I have not heard this type of advice before but I believe it to be excellent.

I believe people need to develop humility with this sport. You may be the fly-in player today, but the also-ran player tomorrow. My son played on a local city travel team that rarely traveled outside the county and even more rarely traveled outside the state. We occasionally came across teams who used fly-in or mercenary players and it seemd to do more harm than good. I guess with pitching it is a little different if the player is brought in to pitch in the later rounds of a tournament but with position players it seems to cause lots and lots of hard feelings - and rightly so imho.

Here is a secret. Great players who love the game will become great players. Their quest may be accelerated somewhat by playing against better competition but a great player can be developed in Rhode Island just as assuredly as in Florida, Texas, or California. I believe part of being a great player is learning how to win and being a great teammate. Although winning should never be the priority at the younger ages, it is at the end of the day why we even participate in sports imho. I think your sons can learn more in the pursuit of winning with their teammates than they can ever learn in victory with mercenary players. I expect some disagreement on that assertion but that is the way I feel about it.



Good points CD. If a player has top level talent he will reach is potential if he works at it no matter where he lives.

I will go a little further with your next to last sentence and say that most players would rather get to the semi finals with their original team than win the championship with a couple of fly-in players. IMO it would be more enjoyable for the team and more of a sense of accomplishment.

I would guess that with teams that regularly fly in players everyone would, or should, be aware of this situation and then it's buyer beware.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
fills ...

Wasn't it the PA Capitals who had all the "fly in" players back in 13U and 14U? I loved beating them. What I hated was watching the coaches, who expected to win berate players in front of the entire park when they failed. What really ticked me off was when the coach yelled, "I can't believe you lost to them, AGAIN." and pointed at our dugout. On paper they were better. The person who started this team went to Cooperstown at 12U and rounded up the best talent willing to get to Reading or Allentown PA on weekends. They were coming from hundreds of miles away. He financed hotels and food for families.

After losing the semis to fills' son's team we stayed for the finals (I even remember it was Rotary Park). I'm sitting with one of the Capitals player's parents (we didn't sit with no stink'n Arsenal parents Smile in those days **). The championship game started about 7:30. The parents were moaning they had a four drive back to Long Island after the game and it was a school night (early June).

** I would have sat with fills. I didn't know him then. I didn't like Arsenal at the time over a condescending comment a parent made about my 5'2", 115 pound (at the time) son before the semi game. My son towers over this parent's kid now.
Last edited by RJM
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
If someone is better than you, you sit. Just like HS, college, and the pros.
In high school and college no one flies in a new player in the middle of the season for a weekend. If it happens in pro ball it's a business. But the player still gets paid.
Last edited by RJM
D Doughnutman1,000+ posts
They don't fly them in RJM, but kids show up in the program year after year in HS, college and the pros. If you aren't the best at your position you are gone. Nothing else matters but who is the best at their position. Just like highly competitve travel teams. If you don't like the competition, don't play with teams that do that kind of thing. Not saying it is a good thing or a bad thing, but every kid and every parent on the teams that fly in kids know that it can and will happen.

Makes for a highly competitve atmosphere. Which leads me back to HS, college, and the pros. No guarantees, no daddy ball.

Just be the best or be replaced. Life lesson time.
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