whats next

This is against everything our country is based on.

If myself and another rep from a competing company decide we don't want to compete and offer like pricing, we will end up in federal prison.

What are we really teaching our kids?

Dear old dad I am not trying to be a jerk here but you totally missed my point and it was because I probably didn't explain myself that well.

First I agree that coaches need to be off the field and let kids play. I agree that age 11 is the age they should be left to play on their own.

What I am saying is before age 11 the coaches need to be on the field instructing players in what to do. This is where they learn the game and the only people to do it are the coaches. Sometimes you have a great dad who does a lot at home but let's face it - there are a lot of dads who cannot / will not teach their kid the game.

Please correct me if I am wrong but you make it sound like coaches are a bad thing.

quote:

The more power a coach has to manipulate the game the more he will do it.

When I coach I take the preseason and teach my guys what the need to do to be successful and then let them take over. During the season I make the decisions I have to make but other than that I let them go.

I just think we are limiting our talent pool to choose from and developing kids by having all star (or whatever you want to call it) at such an early age.

All I am saying is teach the game.

quote:

Originally posted by fsmjunior:
If myself and another rep from a competing company decide we don't want to compete and offer like pricing, we will end up in federal prison.

Should the owner of a gas station A sell his gas on Thurs for $3.99 per gallon, then come in after the weekend on Mon morning and notice the competing gas station across the street selling at $4.18 per gallon, and the owner A raise prices to $4.17,
neither will go to prison (unless it can be proven than each spoke about the gas price increase).

Obviously, you are NOT an attorney, judge, or an owner of a gas station! QED

I certainly understand Coach2709's point, and I tend to agree with a lot of it. Leaving the 95 players out of post season isn't a great thing, and is unnecessary.

Our Little League district has each league form all star teams from its 9-10 year olds and its 11-12 year olds. They of course play the district tournaments, and if they win, go on to state.

But each age group also forms two other post season teams, called "Honors" teams. They, too play a post season tournament that basically mimics the all star district tournament.

This basically allows any kid who wants to play post season to be on a team. Lots of kids don't - their families want to take vacations, or do other stuff.

It works out very well. A lot of kids get the chance to compete in post season, and those honors teams have every bit as much fun trying to win their tournaments as do the all star teams.

All that said, I am of the way of thinking that says 10 year olds love to compete, and their tender psyches are able to withstand the horror of both not making the all star team.

We have all heard the competition thing. It is all about competition. sooner or later our young people are going to have to realize that they have to produce. As far as all star teams when? I remember seeing a kid around 5 years old with a t shirt saying such and such organization t ball all star. a liitle over the top?

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:


Please correct me if I am wrong but you make it sound like coaches are a bad thing.

quote:

The more power a coach has to manipulate the game the more he will do it.

Coach2709, I think we are in agreement on coaches. This is what you said about them in your other post:

"The biggest problem isn't a kid getting his feelings hurt because he didn't get make the all star team - it's because you have coaches who have no clue and take the fun away. Bear with me on this one - I watched Bad News Bears with Billy Bob Thornton and Greg Kinnear last night. Both of them and Will Ferrell in the movie Kicking and Screaming went nuts as coaches trying to win "the championship". The reason why those movies exist is because they are true and they happen - granted the movies exaggerate but those characteristics do exist in every little league park, midget league football, midget league basketball and whatever sport you want to name.

When I walk past - I won't even sit down and watch anymore - a little league field all I hear from the adults (parents, coaches, fans) is you gotta win or do it right or don't embarass me. Talk about pressure - no wonder most of these 95 kids who don't make the all star team end up finding something else to do because at that moment their skill level isn't up to everyone else's expectations."


I have seen coaches do whatever they can to give their team an advantage. If you want the coaches on the field through age ten, than get rid of the umpires, scorebooks and uniforms. My eight year old rec team was just fine being on the field by themselves. As were the teams we played against. Waiting until 11 would be doing the kids, all the kids a disservice.

For all the people who think the all-star process is harsh in baseball. Try putting your child in gymnastics and see how that goes. I have posted this before but a child in gymnastics who is not good enough to make the team will never get to compete. Ever. There is no rec league for a weak gymnast to go to. Get good enough to make the team or spend your days only practicing.

Youth baseball bends over backwards to give everyone a chance to feel like a star. It is important that we don't hurt the most talented kids in the process. By holding everyone back until 11 years old we hurt the kids who want to be there the most.

And Coach2709, I too was one of the 95 kids who didn't make all-stars when I was 12. My dad had no time for sports except to watch bowling on Saturday afternoons. I played stickball in the summer and bummed around all day. Didn't we all back then?

I view all this with a different set of glasses and they are not rose colored

When I was a kid, way back when, we had made our own field in a corner lot, we cut it and groomed it ourselves---we devised all sorts of games if we had less than the needed 18 players for a regular game---we had invisible runners, yes we had great imaginations--- we had no umpires---we had do overs and no fights---we laso played punchball in the streets in front of our house---we played Stoop Ball" ---we played stickball either in the street or at the local school off the wall

One thing we did not do was just "bum around"---that meant trouble with Dad

It may sound corney but I the times for kids back then were better than they are now


Do kids knock on their buddies door and yell "Cmon it is game time"


We had neighborhood events and we, as kids, crested them as we competed with other neighborhoods---no trophies involved---just pride for you neighborhood and we had no age limits---just made sure if the other team had two teens so did we---we had 8 year olds playing ion the field with teens---and no self esteem problems---this is how kids got better---many days the 8 year olds were the first ones to arrive at the field


Today we pamper the kids and they are all becoming soft

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:

One thing we did not do was just "bum around"---that meant trouble with Dad

TR, everything you said you did as a kid I did too. The neighborhood games, gutterball, kickball. It's all just bumming around. Not bumming around meant you had a job or were at a camp. That's what I meant. A couple of kids I knew went off to military camp in the summer. I was a member of the Boys Club so I did some day trips with them.

I used to dread my dad's vacation because he would put me to work around the house. At 77 years old, work is still his favorite pastime.

Not bumming around meant you were doing something constructive, not playing with your friends. At least that's the definition my parents had.

TR, I have no doubt you would have fit into my neighborhood perfectly, or me yours.

The life and times of TR as a chld is what the boys of todays world need. Competition that comes from within that is no way invovlved in our parents hopes and dreams. A work ethic coming from wanting to gain the acceptance that will make a Saturday afternoon a little better. Its the joy of playing for the fun of it, not to be an All Star. The difference between College and Pro...being part of and contributing to something bigger than themselves because of a love for the game and their team. Thats what I'm talking about!

quote:

Originally posted by Bear:

quote:

Originally posted by fsmjunior:
If myself and another rep from a competing company decide we don't want to compete and offer like pricing, we will end up in federal prison.

Should the owner of a gas station A sell his gas on Thurs for $3.99 per gallon, then come in after the weekend on Mon morning and notice the competing gas station across the street selling at $4.18 per gallon, and the owner A raise prices to $4.17,
neither will go to prison (unless it can be proven than each spoke about the gas price increase).

Obviously, you are NOT an attorney, judge, or an owner of a gas station! QED

You are correct; I am not an Attorney, Judge, nor do I own a gas station. I am however a professional Sales Manager. I do Know that Sarbanes Oxley laws require companies to legitimately compete.

My point was, our country is based on competitiveness; maybe the Mayor in question should decide competition would not be good in the next election. It should be the other party's turn to represent the mayors office.

Excellent point! I just wrote a letter to him. Got his email address off the website where the article is. I didn't quote anyone here, but told him that he is taking away from both the kids who are on the team as well as the ones who were not.

TR,
You will be happy to hear that your childhood is being relived in my area of Omaha, NE. My kids are always outside looking for a game of some kind. They put together baseball, football, wallball(no idea, they made it up)and a myriad of other games involving a ball and a handful of boys. We have a lot of boys ranging in age from 8-11 and they all play together. My 8 year old does and has always played with his brother who is 2 1/2 years older. As the youngest of 3 boys he is ultra competitive. He does not want to be outdone by his brothers.

quote:

The life and times of TR as a chld is what the boys of todays world need.

I experienced the same thing. I really dont know if you gave a bunch a kids a bat and a ball and said play they would know what to do. Seems they always hae some adult telling them what to do when to do it etc.

We used to pick our own teams and you know the better guys got picked first and the lesser guys last. could that be a self esteem issue? and we did not count pitches or innings pitched. I remember one kid was pretty good threw hard. Seems he pitched all the time. If only we had made a rule. everybody was eligible no cut off dates for birthdays. We used to have a saying "your chucked"
it meant you were playing so bad you were thrown off the team. cold I suppose but we dealt with it.

quote:

When I was a kid, way back when, we had made our own field in a corner lot, we cut it and groomed it ourselves---we devised all sorts of games if we had less than the needed 18 players for a regular game---we had invisible runners, yes we had great imaginations--- we had no umpires---we had do overs and no fights---we also played punchball in the streets in front of our house---we played Stoop Ball" ---we played stickball either in the street or at the local school off the wall

quote:

The life and times of TR as a chld is what the boys of todays world need. Competition that comes from within that is no way invovlved in our parents hopes and dreams. A work ethic coming from wanting to gain the acceptance that will make a Saturday afternoon a little better.

..........great quotes! Great core values!!

quote:

Originally posted by fsmjunior:

I do Know that Sarbanes Oxley laws require companies to legitimately compete.
...... My point was, our country is based on competitiveness; [/QUOTE]

Oh My Goodness,

SOX is in response to a number of crooks from major corporations, accounting and sales scandals.
It shook my confidence in security markets and American business practices and ethics.

What exactly has the PCAOB done lately?

The Act Does NOT apply to privately held companies.

Those officials at Enron, Tyco International, Adelphia, Peregrine Systems and WorldCom took many pensions & retirement and are now in jail (and
need to stay there.)

quote:

Originally posted by Bear:

quote:

Originally posted by fsmjunior:

I do Know that Sarbanes Oxley laws require companies to legitimately compete.
...... My point was, our country is based on competitiveness;

Oh My Goodness,

SOX is in response to a number of crooks from major corporations, accounting and sales scandals.
It shook my confidence in security markets and American business practices and ethics.

What exactly has the PCAOB done lately?

The Act Does NOT apply to privately held companies.

Those officials at Enron, Tyco International, Adelphia, Peregrine Systems and WorldCom took many pensions & retirement and are now in jail (and
need to stay there.)[/QUOTE]


Bear,

You are STILL missing my point. This is not a political or economic message board... but what I was speaking to is everything about our country is based on competitiveness: Capitalism, politics, education (getting into college), and sports!

As I said, that mayor needs to allow his opposing party their turn in office the next time around.

If I used an analogy you didn't feel fit this situation, I am sorry for the personal attack.

Cancelling All-Stars was wrong in every way! That is all I meant.

We can chat another time about proper business practices.

quote:

Originally posted by JT:
I think we should all march up their and torch their river/lake again.

More than surface knowledge
by D'Arcy Egan, Plain Dealer Columnist Saturday July 12, 2008, 8:03 AM



D'Arcy Egan/The Plain Dealer
Capt. Peg Van Vleet of Blue Sky Charters nets a walleye for Ohio Sea Grant Director Dr. Jeffrey Reutter while fishing on Governor's Fish Ohio Day recently on Lake Erie. Reutter considers it the most important of the Great Lakes.

"I heard Lake Erie is the place fish go to die." -Johnny Carson, comedian, 1976



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Port Clinton -- When Dr. Jeffrey Reutter presents his Lake Erie show to groups, he likes to flash Johnny Carson's joke on the screen. It wasn't true then. It certainly is not true these days.

"You can make a very effective case that Lake Erie is the most important lake in the world," said Reutter, director of Ohio Sea Grant and Stone Laboratory for Ohio State University. "It would be difficult to find a lake used by so many people for so many things."

Reutter and I spent a morning on the expansive inland sea, casting for walleye during the recent Governor's Fish Ohio Day. It was a very enlightening few hours, especially for someone who thought he knew a great deal about Lake Erie.

Here are five things Reutter said most people don't know about Lake Erie, and he is happy to tell them.

1.) Lake Erie is the most important of the Great Lakes

It has the largest freshwater commercial fishery in the world. Lake Erie provides drinking water for 11 million people in four states and a Canadian province. It has 20 power plants along its shoreline.

More goods are shipped from Ohio ports each year than through the Suez Canal. It has more anglers, boaters and crowded beaches -- warm water in summer makes it a great place to play -- and more industry than any of the other Great Lakes. More than 40 percent of the Great Lakes charter fishing fleet docks on Lake Erie.

2.) Lake Erie was not a "dead lake" when the Cuyahoga River burned in 1969

In 1969, Lake Erie commercial and sport fishermen caught more fish than were harvested in the other four Great Lakes combined. Lake Superior has 50 percent of the water mass of the Great Lakes and 2 percent of the fish. Lake Erie has 2 percent of the water mass and 50 percent of the fish.

3.) The upper Great Lakes keep Lake Erie on the move

About 80 percent of the water in Lake Erie flows in from the Detroit River, arriving from the upper Great Lakes. Another 10 percent flows into Lake Erie from its tributaries. Only 10 percent of its water is from direct precipitation. Lake Erie's water races over Niagara Falls and on to Lake Ontario, down the St. Lawrence River and into the Atlantic Ocean.

4.) Lake Erie may look great, but it is not becoming cleaner and more pristine each year

The Lake Erie ecosystem was in decline until 1970. It was stable from 1970 to 1975, and improving from 1975 to about 1995. Since 1995, it has been getting worse. The main culprit is sedimentation flowing from its tributaries, primarily the Maumee River, bringing an increase in nutrients and phosphorous that degrade the water we drink and can shrink the schools of fish we catch.

Agricultural fertilizer and animal waste are the chief offenders. They are followed by trillions of quagga mussels, a filter-feeding invasive species that spit out much more phosphorous than their cousin, the zebra mussel. Add to that phosphate load the deep-water dead zone in the center of the lake, where phosphate-enriched algae dies, sinks to the bottom and decomposes, pulling life-giving oxygen from the lake.

Ohio banned phosphate in laundry detergent in 1990, but cities are now adding phosphorous into drinking water to prevent corrosion in pipes. Even the resurgence of mayflies has been troublesome, because phosphorous is released as they burrow into the lake bottom.

5.) Toxins do not hang around for long in Lake Erie

The shallow waters of Lake Erie that make it so fertile and productive also allow it to flush itself every three years. In comparison, it takes nature more than 100 years to replace the water of Lake Michigan and Lake Superior. Things happen quickly around Lake Erie.

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:
degan@plaind.com, 216-999-5158

http://www.cleveland.com/outdoors/index.ssf/2008/07/mor...rface_knowledge.html

quote:

Originally posted by fsmjunior:
Bear,

You are STILL missing my point. This is not a political or economic message board... but what I was speaking to is everything about our country is based on competitiveness: Capitalism, politics, education (getting into college), and sports!

As I said, that mayor needs to allow his opposing party their turn in office the next time around.

If I used an analogy you didn't feel fit this situation, I am sorry for the personal attack.

Cancelling All-Stars was wrong in every way! That is all I meant.

We can chat another time about proper business practices.

Did you miss the chad count?
10 % probably do not get the memo.