Anyone who tells you anything above 75 as average is bsing you.
Wow, thats a bold statement to say about 75 and up considering the high level of baseball in the chicago land area. Maybe you need to get away from the little league fields and come watch the big boys play because I don't know a team that doesn't have at least one guy throwing 80 or higher with the rare exceptions of Rich South, Central and East. When a kid says he throws 80 thats more than likley ligit, now if made that staement about people saying they throw 90 and up you would have a case, but 75 and up sophmores can throw.
id have to agree aighto5
Sure there might be a lot of pithcers throwing 80 and over but were talking about average here.
Sure there might be a lot of pithcers throwing 80 and over but were talking about average here.
AVERAGE being the key word.
Bump - Interesting topic
very interesting topic
I am familiar with what should be the 2009 starting rotation at one particular high school. I witnessed three of the four clocked on the same gun.
All MPH's are were they were sitting/working (not max) within the last month: two seniors at 86, a junior at 80, and a senior at 78.
That averages 82, in the fall, with eight months to go. It does not take into account the bullpen, which would probably bring the average down.
One of the 86 MPH seniors a lefty D1 verbal commit.
All MPH's are were they were sitting/working (not max) within the last month: two seniors at 86, a junior at 80, and a senior at 78.
That averages 82, in the fall, with eight months to go. It does not take into account the bullpen, which would probably bring the average down.
One of the 86 MPH seniors a lefty D1 verbal commit.
Used to hit 300, if that's the school I'm thinking of, it is unusual. They will have a total of 5 strong hurlers in 2009. The team will be a force next year, that's for sure. However, they are the exception versus average. I'd be surprised if the average of most high schools tops 80. Sure, you'll have some kids mid 80's, but a great deal will be 77 - 79.
The next factor would be pitching versus throwing. Some pitchers are very effective at a lower speed than some of the hard throwers.
The next factor would be pitching versus throwing. Some pitchers are very effective at a lower speed than some of the hard throwers.
I have had the radar gun on our pitchers & opponents for the past 4 years. Here are some of my observations....
Generally what I read in the paper is not what a pitcher is averaging in the game. Players/coaches/parents tend to give you the highest pop speed a pitcher has ever thrown. That is not what they "cruise" at in a game. Not always but most of the time.
Kids don't throw as hard in the cold springs here in IL as they do in the warm summers.
In 4 years it is very, very rare to see a pitcher average over 85 in a game. It is very rare to see a lefty average over 80. I can count the total using both hands. That is in over 120+ games.
I know this is not in regards to high school speeds, but when I was watching a week worth of Class A games this summer the over riding majority of starting pitchers consistantly throw upper 80's.
Majority of relief pitchers were consistantly 90's.
The question should probably be asked - what range of speeds (+/- 2 mph) does a kid hit the most during an entire game? Our pitcher were 83-84, 82-83, 81-82 and 78-79. Our top guy might hit 86 once or twice but he is not "cruising at that speed."
Look at the Mike Bowden video on mlb draft tracker. He was mostly hitting 89 in that video.
Just my observations...
Generally what I read in the paper is not what a pitcher is averaging in the game. Players/coaches/parents tend to give you the highest pop speed a pitcher has ever thrown. That is not what they "cruise" at in a game. Not always but most of the time.
Kids don't throw as hard in the cold springs here in IL as they do in the warm summers.
In 4 years it is very, very rare to see a pitcher average over 85 in a game. It is very rare to see a lefty average over 80. I can count the total using both hands. That is in over 120+ games.
I know this is not in regards to high school speeds, but when I was watching a week worth of Class A games this summer the over riding majority of starting pitchers consistantly throw upper 80's.
Majority of relief pitchers were consistantly 90's.
The question should probably be asked - what range of speeds (+/- 2 mph) does a kid hit the most during an entire game? Our pitcher were 83-84, 82-83, 81-82 and 78-79. Our top guy might hit 86 once or twice but he is not "cruising at that speed."
Look at the Mike Bowden video on mlb draft tracker. He was mostly hitting 89 in that video.
Just my observations...
NC42dad - when you say velocity average over an entire game, you are referring to fastballs only, correct?
A school that I am very familiar with has 5 kids (4 seniors, one junior) that average over 80 with their fastballs. Their breaking balls are dfinitely under 80mph.
Also, how are we defining high school pitchers? The 3 kids that start the majority of the games or all kids that pitch including the JV games.
A school that I am very familiar with has 5 kids (4 seniors, one junior) that average over 80 with their fastballs. Their breaking balls are dfinitely under 80mph.
Also, how are we defining high school pitchers? The 3 kids that start the majority of the games or all kids that pitch including the JV games.
RRF8- My readings I gave were just fastballs.
I can believe that a school has 5 kids averaging over 80. We had 3. As for defining "average" I do not know how to do that. Most guys (the non-starters) coming out of the "bullpen" usually do not throw 80. I just passed on what I observe for what it is worth. My oldest kid was freaked out by all the talk of guys throwing 90 mph and somehow thought he wasn't good enough or needed to crank it up and throw harder (usually not with a positive result). After "gunning" the high school games & showcases, etc. he started feeling less "inadequate" & just went out and relaxed (better results.)
As for curveballs, an upper 70's breaking ball is about as rare or more rare than a 90's fastball. Not that I have been at every event but I have only seen 1 kid throw a breaking pitch at 80. Last year the highest breaking pitch I saw was 77. Most curve balls come in about 10 mph slower than their fastball. Colin Bates was about 75-77 mph with his breaking pitch his senior year and it was UNHITTABLE! Maybe the best "pitch" I have seen in the 4 years I have been going to games. Very rare.
If I was a scout I am sure I would be able to see more guys throwing 90 mph, etc. but I just pass on what I see - mostly at high school games.
I can believe that a school has 5 kids averaging over 80. We had 3. As for defining "average" I do not know how to do that. Most guys (the non-starters) coming out of the "bullpen" usually do not throw 80. I just passed on what I observe for what it is worth. My oldest kid was freaked out by all the talk of guys throwing 90 mph and somehow thought he wasn't good enough or needed to crank it up and throw harder (usually not with a positive result). After "gunning" the high school games & showcases, etc. he started feeling less "inadequate" & just went out and relaxed (better results.)
As for curveballs, an upper 70's breaking ball is about as rare or more rare than a 90's fastball. Not that I have been at every event but I have only seen 1 kid throw a breaking pitch at 80. Last year the highest breaking pitch I saw was 77. Most curve balls come in about 10 mph slower than their fastball. Colin Bates was about 75-77 mph with his breaking pitch his senior year and it was UNHITTABLE! Maybe the best "pitch" I have seen in the 4 years I have been going to games. Very rare.
If I was a scout I am sure I would be able to see more guys throwing 90 mph, etc. but I just pass on what I see - mostly at high school games.
quote:Originally posted by BBFan58:
Used to hit 300, if that's the school I'm thinking of, it is unusual. They will have a total of 5 strong hurlers in 2009. The team will be a force next year, that's for sure.
Probably not the school you are thinking...this school won't have 5 and probably won't be a force...will only go as far as their kids take them 'cuz the coach doesn't help...but that's a different story.
quote:All MPH's are were they were sitting/working (not max) within the last month: two seniors at 86, a junior at 80, and a senior at 78.
All witnessed MPH's were during bullpen sessions and at roughly 30 pitches. I also witnessed the lefty D1 commit working at 86 four innings into a start at the DSP tourney at ISU in July. Had five guns all telling the same story.
BTW, none are my kid and I my only interest is I'm saying what I was seeing.
I'd say the range from 78-81 is average. You'd be surprised how many kids are in that range, even kids you might think are throwing harder. They might hit 83 once in a while but not very often. If a kid in HS is at 86, you'll definitely notice the difference when watching it. And I'd go further to say that a kid that consistenly throws 84-86, 95% of them can't keep that speed up even into the 4th inning.
That's not to say there aren't some very good HS pitchers that throw all 3 pitches for strikes and pitch at around 78 and have great careers, but at the next higher levels it's mostly about velocity for them to take a look at you.
That's not to say there aren't some very good HS pitchers that throw all 3 pitches for strikes and pitch at around 78 and have great careers, but at the next higher levels it's mostly about velocity for them to take a look at you.
My son just started HS. He has been averaging 74-77 in BP sessions with his fall team and his 15U travel/tournament team for next summer.
I'm guessing from this thread he is on a good track.
I'm guessing from this thread he is on a good track.
Posted September 04, 2008 09:40 AM Hide Post
My son just started HS. He has been averaging 74-77 in BP sessions with his fall team and his 15U travel/tournament team for next summer.
I'm guessing from this thread he is on a good track.
In my opinion - yes.
My son just started HS. He has been averaging 74-77 in BP sessions with his fall team and his 15U travel/tournament team for next summer.
I'm guessing from this thread he is on a good track.
In my opinion - yes.
That is fine for a freshman headed to JV. To play varsity, he will need to progress, but there's no reason to think he won't.