When is it finally time to talk to the coach?

So do you want to be proactive or reactive?  Which one will get the best results?  Honestly you and your husband shouldn't have this conversation with the coach because how does this help your son grow up?  This needs to be a conversation your son has with the coach.  He needs to explain to him how his legs feel after the all day catching session.  Your son needs to ask him how he plans on using him if he's pitching first and catching second or vice versa or even pitching at all.  Once the coach explains his plan (if he has one) then your son can say he doesn't think he would be at his best if he caught first then pitched (or even did both on the same day).  Now the coach can plan accordingly based on the conversation with your son.

Now you guys as parents can help your son prepare for the conversation by helping him understand how to phrase things (working together for the team benefit vs I'm getting my way) and other things like that.  But for your husband to go to the dugout on Saturday and create a scene is the worst way possible to handle this.  Be proactive, help your son learn to take up for himself and teach him how to communicate effectively.  Plus, it helps him look more like a leader in this coaches eyes.  Way more good will come from being proactive like this than waiting to the day of the game and creating a scene.  Now if your son does all this and the coach still won't listen then I think it's appropriate for you as parents to ask for a meeting BEFORE this situation happens.  Do everything in your power to take care of this BEFORE it comes to making a scene.  It's not always possible but at least strive for it.

ditto. It's time for your son to inquire & then speak up.

Spot on coach2709!!

A parent's role is to prep the player on how to handle the situation with the coach. 

My son is also a catcher and a pitcher.  I think the answer you got from Coach2709 is pretty much what my son has done.  Based on a suggestion my son got to a question at an excellent college camp, he presented it in a way like this to his coach:  I enjoy catching and pitching, but I know I will not be at my best if I try to do both on the same day or on back to back days.  Where do you see my highest need to the team?  The coach told him the team had more of a need at catcher, so my son said he will then focus on catching during the season.   It worked well, and there has been no problems whatsoever.

Now if your son has a similar conversation with his coach and he still tries to catch and pitch him on the same day, then your son can always say his arm is sore.  If the coach still insists on using him both ways after he tells him that, then I think you need to request a private meeting with the coach immediately.

Those of us with kids who both catch and pitch live on the edge.  These are kids who typically have strong arms and coaches want to take maximum advantage of those arms.  However, I read somewhere that the highest correlation the experts have found with players needing Tommy John at an early age are players who both caught and pitched in the same week throughout the season.  Most coaches understand this risk and put the players' interest first.  But some of these high schools have coaches who need to be told by their players that they should only do one or the other.  Hopefully they respect the player's willingness to address the issue with them.

Concur with above...   The coach might not realize the risk he's exposing your son to... Not all coach's are dialed into arm care and they sometimes need a careful reminder.  Empower your son with the tools for a conversation with the coach.  

IF the Coach completely disregards what your son says, that's an entirely different matter.  Then, an off-field proactive conversation with the coach about arm care and knee rest would be appropriate.  

What coach2709 said.

Duh. I keep forgetting my baby is a fairly articulate young man who can stick up for himself. He will speak up if he hurts or doesn't feel up to a specific task, but otherwise, he feels it's the coaches job to put him where he needs him, and his job to do his best in that spot.

I'll remind him he needs to have that conversation and be smart about what he does.

Thanks for the reality check.

Iowamom23 posted:

Duh. I keep forgetting my baby is a fairly articulate young man who can stick up for himself. He will speak up if he hurts or doesn't feel up to a specific task, but otherwise, he feels it's the coaches job to put him where he needs him, and his job to do his best in that spot.

I'll remind him he needs to have that conversation and be smart about what he does.

Thanks for the reality check.

Your son has the right attitude.  Let him be his own man, however, you can have a conversation with him if you feel his health is in jeopardy.  Sometimes we have to remind them they cant do it all, especially if the coach is not as educated in arm care.

As FYI. My son is and in HS was a very articulate young man. He was also a young man willing to do whatever coach asked. Believed in himself and willing to put everything on line for the win. 

We interceded (beforehand and privately) with coach. As parents I still feel like we have to protect kids health as much as possible. In our case it was a very positive experience. But we knew that coach from older sons who had played for him ( neither of them pitched so not an issue). We watched him abuse way to many arms. We knew our sophomore HS son would be willing to risk it. We as parents weren't. 

That's why you have the discussion with son and only intervene when you have to.

I understand, we had that situation but only spoke up when son knew he needed us to help.  And yes, sometimes you have to speak up when your sons future is at stake.

But give them the chance first, because they have to learn on their own to take care of business.

I don't know if I've ever seen so many "likes" on a post so it is obviously excellent advice from coach2709.  And as I was reading through Coach's post, I found myself nodding in total agreement all the way through before I saw the likes.

HOWEVER...  as I think longer on this one, I actually disagree with the player handling this.  I'm going to go against the grain with some of the folks who I respect the absolute most here on HSBBW. 

I TOTALLY agree that dad stepping in on game day is the worst possible option.  I totally agree that players this age need to handle their own business.  But, look, the kids with the best attitudes, the kids who love to play the most, the kids who have been properly parented with respect to elders, those kids want to go where the coach tells them and have a good attitude about it.  Those kids want to play instead of sit.  Those kids want to be in the middle of things and it doesn't get any more "middle" than pitcher and catcher.  Those kids want to help the team any way needed... and so on an so on.  You get my point.  So this is one topic where I find it appropriate for the parent to step in and say something like...

"Johnny would never say anything to you because he loves to play and wants to help the team wherever he is needed but we have studied up on how it is highly recommended not to have kids pitch and catch the same day unless it is just a few innings at each. He comes home and his legs are very tired from catching bullpens for two hours straight.  Then he is asked to pitch and this is when, we're told, kids' mechanics will fail and arm injuries follow.  We totally appreciate everything you do with the team and will stay out of all decisions you make but when it comes to any concerns with our son's health, we feel the need to communicate with you."  "Are there maybe some reasonable guidelines that can be put in place with limits for pitching and catching?"

Then, when he asks what you had in mind, that's when you introduce him to HSBBW!!!!!  Win, win, win

JMO... any other issues regarding normal stuff, the kid handles it.

Agree with CABBAGEDAD. Perfect wording. This particular issue is when the player might need an advocate. If the player felt comfortable with handling the issue, that would be my first choice, but I wonder how many coaches would hear those words in the intended way from a player. 

Player needs to understand the risks of health to his arm and knees.  Given the disregard by the coach, this is a bit dicey.  Player needs to have an immediate conversation with the Coach.  Empower your son with the tools.  BUT,...

Because of the immediate health concerns and If the player is slow to act, or the coach is slow to respond to the player, parent can feel comfortable about stepping in.  

Safety (arm care or knees) & "checkbook" items open the door for parents to have an off the field, ahead of time conversation with a focus on the issue.  Arm care is a safety issue, if most coach's are disconnected, the parent coach is likely disconnected as well.  

Hopefully it's an oversight and coach responds immediately.

You've received great guidance, good luck to you and your son.

Is it really that hard for a player to talk to the coach?  I mean as much time as they spend together ?  Just last week 2018 was pitching in a scrimmage and the head coach yelled at him to speed up the game.

After his allotted threes innings he was in the bullpen doing post pitching work and 2018 asked the pitching coach if the head coach was yelling at him to speed up the game or the umpire.  The pitching coach said he wanted you to speed up the game.

2018 went to the head coach and said that its his game to pitch , every game I pitch has a slightly different feel and at that time in the game  he needed to take a little longer than usual.   Keep in mind he faced 10 batters striking out 7 ...walked one.   HS school coaches are for the most part great guys, and great teachers , not always great coaches. 

Are most high school players intimidated by their coach?

I have to agree with bacdor and GOV, and I understand this is not his HS coach a travel coach and my understanding  he also is a dad coach.

Sometimes I get a bit confused. Your son is a catcher, pitcher and 3rd basemen yet you have concerns that the coach might pitch him one game and have him catch the next?  And you are upset that he caught to all the pitchers the other night and afraid his knees were weak?  But you think maybe that you should have a talk with him, about what? Isn't this what he signed up for?  So instead of going to speak to the coach, wouldn't it be better to sit down with your son and discuss better options or solutions beforehand so you or your son wont have to have that conversation.

Please do not take this the wrong way, but I just don't get it sometimes, player wants to play all positions that can cause issues later on but parents want the player to play on their terms?

That's not how it works, no matter at what level you play at.

JMO

Keep in mind, this isn't a varsity coach or even a "real" baseball coach. It's a dad who puts together a team each spring before our high school can start practice, just so the kids get a chance to play. As a family we respect and appreciate that, but also realize his lack of knowledge.

Son has been raised to know there are two kinds of coaches--those you respect because they have the title and those you respect because they have the knowledgeable skill to make him better.

This is a coach by title  

I think sometimes guys who don't know a ton about baseball are more intimidated by kids and their questions than coaches who are confident and comfortable with their knowledge and role. 

cabbagedad posted:

I don't know if I've ever seen so many "likes" on a post so it is obviously excellent advice from coach2709.  And as I was reading through Coach's post, I found myself nodding in total agreement all the way through before I saw the likes.

HOWEVER...  as I think longer on this one, I actually disagree with the player handling this.  I'm going to go against the grain with some of the folks who I respect the absolute most here on HSBBW. 

I TOTALLY agree that dad stepping in on game day is the worst possible option.  I totally agree that players this age need to handle their own business.  But, look, the kids with the best attitudes, the kids who love to play the most, the kids who have been properly parented with respect to elders, those kids want to go where the coach tells them and have a good attitude about it.  Those kids want to play instead of sit.  Those kids want to be in the middle of things and it doesn't get any more "middle" than pitcher and catcher.  Those kids want to help the team any way needed... and so on an so on.  You get my point.  So this is one topic where I find it appropriate for the parent to step in and say something like...

"Johnny would never say anything to you because he loves to play and wants to help the team wherever he is needed but we have studied up on how it is highly recommended not to have kids pitch and catch the same day unless it is just a few innings at each. He comes home and his legs are very tired from catching bullpens for two hours straight.  Then he is asked to pitch and this is when, we're told, kids' mechanics will fail and arm injuries follow.  We totally appreciate everything you do with the team and will stay out of all decisions you make but when it comes to any concerns with our son's health, we feel the need to communicate with you."  "Are there maybe some reasonable guidelines that can be put in place with limits for pitching and catching?"

Then, when he asks what you had in mind, that's when you introduce him to HSBBW!!!!!  Win, win, win

JMO... any other issues regarding normal stuff, the kid handles it.

 

 

This is perfect. Son is going to talk to coach before practice about what he sees him doing this weekend and if there's a concern, he'll let me know and I'll reach out. 

My 2016 came within an eyelash of not playing HSBB after soph. year because of problems with HC.I have a problem right now with HC that I want to post on this thread but, do not want to high jack.I mean no disrespect when I say this.I would not let/put 2016 in a situation you describe with this coach.From what I've read you/son had/have problem with this guy going in before hand.I also am kinda scrathing my head on the sore knee thing.What is his off season rest period?what is his getting ready for season routine?.I constantly am on 2016 about his health.He is a top 2 sport kid.Other than this last FB season(he was on my very short string) he is really good with telling me how he feels.But there is a diffirence in being sore.There is a good sore and a bad sore this time of year with alot of kids.As far as the pitching catching thing I am 110% on your side.