When is it too much?

The thing that bugs me the most is how Williamsport has completely sold out for the TV dollar. The entire program is now built around accommodating the August TV schedule.

A few years back, the Cal Ripken tournament recognized what was happening in youth ball with metal bats and moved to 50/70 play with deeper fences. Williamsport, on the other hand, moved its aging date from Aug. 1 to May 1, thereby putting OLDER players on the same dinky field. All so that we could have home run derby while Brent Musburger gushes about what studs these rising 8th graders are. Yeah, right, 6-foot tall 13-year-olds well into puberty who can hit it 205 feet, they're our next major leaguers.

Even in VA, with long warm summers, the kids stop playing before the middle of June so that those few who are all stars can go to the tournaments. And then they don't come back to play after the tournaments are done. For most recreational players, there is no baseball for 90% of their summer break from school.

And folks wonder why even the below average player is migrating to travel ball. Why? BECAUSE THEY WANT TO PLAY!

There's a book about the founder of Little League, I think his name was Carl Stotz. He had a vision for LL that involved every kid playing. He wanted long summer seasons and limited rosters so that everyone could play. The book is many years old now, but it talks a lot about how Stotz was basically run out of his own organization by the corporate types and yes, lawyers (as you know, sometimes members of my profession can really mess things up!) who saw LL as a potential big deal internationally.

You suggest we not watch the TV. I suggest that players are already voting with their feet, moving to other playing venues. Outside of the Polyanna broadcasters of ABC/ESPN, everyone involved in youth baseball knows that the days when LL was king are long gone. Already you have Babe Ruth/Ripken on TV and other competing tourneys are not apt to be far behind. Eventually LL will be viewed not as the leader of the pack, but just another member of the herd. With the small diamond, no leading off bases, etc., it's only a matter of time until its premier spot on TV disappears because the market is simply saturated with other viewing options of baseball outlets every bit as, or even more familiar to the viewer who is a youth baseball player, volunteer or fan.

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Good post Midlo...

If you are listing other alternative events that still work....Don't forget the Pony system...The Bronco league World Series gets played in Monterey CA in early in Early August. The event has gotten hurt by travel leagues but it is still a great event. Bigger field, longer basepath's...and it is not yet "sold out". Tiawan, Caribbean, Mexico, as well as regional teams from around the US....thsoe who have participated do not forget it and the baseball is terrific.

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Those of us on here know that the cream of the crop is rarely in Williamsport, unless a Travel Team from the same Little LEague district is involved.

I don't know if you can blame TV for spoiling the game; they just let more people into the circle.

RJM, long before Cable TV effected College Sports by with the almighty dollar and the BCS, the big Conferences and the Big teams dominated even more than now. Growing up it was Nebraska, Oklahoma, Michigan, Ohio State, FLorida, Alabama, FLorida State, USC... all big schools in big conferences. Now with the Regional Cable TV coverage schools like Utah, Boise St, Hawaii and Tulsa also get some exposure.

I get your point, when are they too young? I just think we have seen that behavior up close and with TV it just lets the outsiders in, to close for comfort.

I actually saw a FSN broadcast of the 9yr old Triple Crown championship from Steamboat Springs the other night. It was televised with an announcer and former big leaguer as the color guy.

My college ballplayer son sat down and watched it with me. I haven't seen a 9yr old game since he was that age. We both felt kind of silly watching, it was a tape delay broadcast, but I'll admit it was fun watching the little guys. One of the pitchers was throwing a knuckler.

There are so many sports stations now, with so much time to fill that they will broadcast stuff like this. It is more fun than watching the collegiate skeet shooting championships.

I like the TV coverage for the games. I don't see the problem with covering the games but would like to see Little League get out of the stone age and move the age back to September so that the majority of kids in the same grade play together, get 13 yr olds off the small diamond and they increase the field size for 11-12 year olds. The Willy on TV games look like a pinball game. I'd like to see more coverage of the 50/70 Ripken WS tournament because it's a better game to watch for all-stars that age. At least Ripken and some of the other organizations have made the adjustments Little League refuses to make but still need to move the age cutoff dates back.

Milo you make some good points. LL is not perfect, but it still is the dominant league in youth baseball. Couple of clarifications to your points.

1. The age change was driven by USA baseball and LL followed suit. (as well as everyone else) I agree that the consequences are getting more powerful kids on the small field. I don’t know what the answer is, but agree a move back on the pitching distance would be good. LL did not drive this change however.

2. LL has been active in trying to limit bat performance. They continue to keep the bat diameter smaller and OK the use of wood bats. It would not surprise me if LL took another lead and went back to wood. The problem is the bats not the distance from home plate to the fences.

3. LL took a real leadership posting in the protection of pitchers arms, the first youth organization to do so. Its not perfect but a good start.

4. As the father of a pitcher, I prefer the no lead off. Kids learning to pitch don’t need to worry about pitching from the stretch until they are 13. (it is a non argument that pitchers coming out of LL are disadvantaged in HS because it is not accurate) It is also allows a rider range of kids to play.

5. The All-Star tournament format has been around long before there was TV. I agree however that the leagues could implement some type of summer baseball for all of the other non-all stars. I know some leagues have tournament of champions that different leagues play each other after the regular season ends. You have a great point on this one.

I happen to enjoy the LL World Series; I think LL is doing a good job of trying to keep it fun, yet competitive. As far as the announcers go that is another story, except I like Orel Hershiser.

Please don't turn this into a 46/60 v. 50/70 or rec v. travel debate. The thread is about youth sports and television due to the behavior sometimes exposed on tv and the potential coruption of youth/high school sports. If there's another (ugh) 46/60 v. 50/70 or rec v. travel debate to be had, please start another thread.

Got it RJM.

It will adapt to the level of interest. If there are viewers interested they will broadcast it, if not they won't.

I think the behavior has almost always been there to some degree; now with HD and more mikes and better coverage we are seeing more of it.

We are talking about very competitive adolescent boys.

I like the fact that the LLWS is more widely covered now.I live in the town that produced last years World Champions,Waipio-Hawaii.The homecoming that they received wouldn't have happened if the games weren't so widely televised.There were banners and signs all over the community that said "Welcome home LLWS champs","Home of the LLWS champs","Congrats LLWS champs", etc...My son has access to play Little League,Pony or Cal Ripken in our area.We have never had that kind of homecomong with our Pony World Series Champions ever before.I think it's because of the lack of media coverage.

As far as having the coaches and players being miced.You have to take the good with the bad.Timo Donahue,the head coach for Waipio LL, said something to the effect that "whatever happens,hold your head up because at the very least,you guys are the second best team in the country".He said it calmly,motivationally and inspirationally.I know for sure that I wouldn't have been that calm and composed with the LLWS on the line.

The playera behavior this year isn't a reflection of the coaches.As our generations goes on,character traits like dicipline,honor,integrity,have been getting lost.I know if my son ever acted up on the field,he would get benched at the least and probally handed a good a$$ whoopings when he got home.The players behavior is reflection of the lack of GOOD parenting in this day and age.

our local paper has been struggling financialy. they now have only 1 sports writer, because the guy in charge doesn't like sports. waste of money in his eyes.

we have been a very succesful LL program, regionals every couple yrs, even a trip to the ws a few years ago. we were at one time the 2nd biggest cal ripken state behind florida. but thats another story.

my point is you have to sell to those buying. every player has a family, grandparents, neighbors etc they all buy papers to see the boy's in it. same with tv, etc.

LL was all we had, now it is one of the herd so to speak. it is not my favorite baseball,but i do watch alot of it. 90% of LL was/is designed for the average boy, great for the community. it's the stuff on tv with the 13 yo studs that takes away from it, imho.

in the end,it's almost alway's about the money.

quote:

our local paper has been struggling financially. they now have only 1 sports writer, because the guy in charge doesn't like sports. waste of money in his eyes.

I'd get rid of him real quick. Covering local events like sports can get people reading your paper. These are trying times for printed media. One way to quicken your demise is to not include local events.

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quote:

Originally posted by 20dad:
...in the end,it's almost alway's about the money.

Yes sir...just ask these guys!






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Bobble,

Are you sure you're really in Canada? It sure sounds like you're the guy in charge of our local paper. Do you work for Media General?

quote:

I'd get rid of him real quick. Covering local events like sports can get people reading your paper. These are trying times for printed media. One way to quicken your demise is to not include local events.

The team that defeated my son's LL all-star team went all the way to the LLWS. Their local paper assigned a reporter to the team. I talked with her at Williamsport. She (age 26) said the last thing she envisioned when she was majoring in journalism was spending a summer with a group of twelve year old boys.

All I know is, as much as some of the rules annoy me about LL, I DVR'ed every one of the regional games and have watched them. (Great thing about DVR is you can FF through the commercials and slow stuff).

Got to see a walk-off grand slam last night.

I would like to have seen some of the international games.

I just love watching baseball and seeing the boys have fun.

Maybe it reminds me of playing in Cooperstown last year.