don't become a PO until you know for sure you cannot hit.
After watching the Phillies' Vince Velasquez make one of the dumbest base-running decisions in the history of baseball last night, I took to google convinced that he must have been the product of some travel ball coach forcing him into a PO role when he was 10. Unfortunately, he doesn't have that as an excuse. He was a SS in high school. Brutal.
MidAtlanticDad posted:After watching the Phillies' Vince Velasquez make one of the dumbest base-running decisions in the history of baseball last night, I took to google convinced that he must have been the product of some travel ball coach forcing him into a PO role when he was 10. Unfortunately, he doesn't have that as an excuse. He was a SS in high school. Brutal.
Your comment was good for a chuckle (thanks). But I guess I'm more sympathetic... Pinch-running a pitcher is pretty odd. There is the risk of injury (remember Chien Ming Wang? on track for a really nice career with the NYY, then injured his foot running to 1B and was never the same). And there is the fact that Ps just don't do much base running. I imagine Velasquez's heart was racing, he was eager to show what he could do--and so he left the base early on a routine fly. I didn't watch the game--why was Kapler using a pitcher to pinch-run? No one else on the bench?
Chico Escuela posted:MidAtlanticDad posted:After watching the Phillies' Vince Velasquez make one of the dumbest base-running decisions in the history of baseball last night, I took to google convinced that he must have been the product of some travel ball coach forcing him into a PO role when he was 10. Unfortunately, he doesn't have that as an excuse. He was a SS in high school. Brutal.
Your comment was good for a chuckle (thanks). But I guess I'm more sympathetic... Pinch-running a pitcher is pretty odd. There is the risk of injury (remember Chien Ming Wang? on track for a really nice career with the NYY, then injured his foot running to 1B and was never the same). And there is the fact that Ps just don't do much base running. I imagine Velasquez's heart was racing, he was eager to show what he could do--and so he left the base early on a routine fly. I didn't watch the game--why was Kapler using a pitcher to pinch-run? No one else on the bench?
I've run out of goodwill for this team. They make more stupid mistakes than any team I've ever watched. I think Kapler used a P to pinch-run in case they tied the game and he needed a bench guy to hit later.
Tagging up was dumb on so many levels. The ball wasn't hit real deep to begin with. There were 2 outs. The 3rd base coach had the hold sign up, and he left early... Very basic stuff, even for a pitcher. Frustrating month for Phillies fans.
In my area, PO's start to show up on the Freshman/SO team, and really become a thing in JV/Varsity. Since we have a large public, there tend to be plenty of numbers. My eldest was good at everything and had a very strong arm, but his glove/speed filled such a need on the team that his pitching time dwindled as the years went on, while other buddies who started to pitch more with the occasional stint at the corners started to surpass him around Junior yr. Did pitch about 7-8 innings Senior year, but his main value to the team was his ability to go out and get it in the field.
IMO, it's near impossible to play an up the middle defensive position and pitch at a competitive Varsity HS. Pitcher's arms need to rest before and after outings, and fielders need to work on their defense and chemistry.
My youngest is an interesting case. Arguably the best pitcher in his class of 650. Athletic, fast, but by no means the glove wizard. Loves to hit, though, and is pretty good at it. Maybe top 4-5 in his grade? I'm trying to groom him to be a corner OF guy so he can get his AB's in when not on the mound. Don't see a coach wanting a part time 3b, and he's too fast/RH to be a 1B.
One things for sure. We'll have our plans, and the HC will have his. Guess which one wins out?
57special posted:In my area, PO's start to show up on the Freshman/SO team, and really become a thing in JV/Varsity. Since we have a large public, there tend to be plenty of numbers. My eldest was good at everything and had a very strong arm, but his glove/speed filled such a need on the team that his pitching time dwindled as the years went on, while other buddies who started to pitch more with the occasional stint at the corners started to surpass him around Junior yr. Did pitch about 7-8 innings Senior year, but his main value to the team was his ability to go out and get it in the field.
IMO, it's near impossible to play an up the middle defensive position and pitch at a competitive Varsity HS. Pitcher's arms need to rest before and after outings, and fielders need to work on their defense and chemistry.
My youngest is an interesting case. Arguably the best pitcher in his class of 650. Athletic, fast, but by no means the glove wizard. Loves to hit, though, and is pretty good at it. Maybe top 4-5 in his grade? I'm trying to groom him to be a corner OF guy so he can get his AB's in when not on the mound. Don't see a coach wanting a part time 3b, and he's too fast/RH to be a 1B.
One things for sure. We'll have our plans, and the HC will have his. Guess which one wins out?
Same here POs really start around Frosh HS year. Then you see more Soph year and by Jr year you are either a PO or a position player. My son was a two way player for two years in HS. By the time he was a Jr and on the V team he was moved to 1B by the coach. He was throwing mid 80s but was sitting 3rd/4th in the rotation. Coach decided his bat was needed more then his pitching at that point so he became a position player.
joes87 posted:57special posted:In my area, PO's start to show up on the Freshman/SO team, and really become a thing in JV/Varsity. Since we have a large public, there tend to be plenty of numbers. My eldest was good at everything and had a very strong arm, but his glove/speed filled such a need on the team that his pitching time dwindled as the years went on, while other buddies who started to pitch more with the occasional stint at the corners started to surpass him around Junior yr. Did pitch about 7-8 innings Senior year, but his main value to the team was his ability to go out and get it in the field.
IMO, it's near impossible to play an up the middle defensive position and pitch at a competitive Varsity HS. Pitcher's arms need to rest before and after outings, and fielders need to work on their defense and chemistry.
My youngest is an interesting case. Arguably the best pitcher in his class of 650. Athletic, fast, but by no means the glove wizard. Loves to hit, though, and is pretty good at it. Maybe top 4-5 in his grade? I'm trying to groom him to be a corner OF guy so he can get his AB's in when not on the mound. Don't see a coach wanting a part time 3b, and he's too fast/RH to be a 1B.
One things for sure. We'll have our plans, and the HC will have his. Guess which one wins out?
Same here POs really start around Frosh HS year. Then you see more Soph year and by Jr year you are either a PO or a position player. My son was a two way player for two years in HS. By the time he was a Jr and on the V team he was moved to 1B by the coach. He was throwing mid 80s but was sitting 3rd/4th in the rotation. Coach decided his bat was needed more then his pitching at that point so he became a position player.
Ha! Our HS NEVER has enough pitching, it seems. With the new pitch count rules and the compressed schedules up in the northern midwest it seems like they are always at least one P short, even in their best years.
Chico Escuela posted:I have seen several threads that give the advice that "the game will let you know when it's time to become a pitcher-only." That makes sense. But could I get some thoughts on when might be too soon to make that call?
Son is a 2020. Prior to 2017 (when he was a freshman playing JV and then on a pretty good travel team for summer and fall) he had always been a middle of the order bat and a starter at corner infield, in addition to a RHP. In 2017 he has pitched well, but has really struggled at the plate--and has seen a lot less playing time in the field as a result.
Son has always insisted he didn't want to be a PO, although his coaches have told him it was going to be his role eventually if he wanted to play in college. (As a pitcher he consistently gets evaluated by his coaches as having D1 potential.) Today my son surprised me by telling me he has thought about it and decided he wants to be a PO starting with the coming spring season.
I'm concerned he is just discouraged, but this is my son's decision to make, of course. His HS coach may want him to play in the field and hit some regardless (small school, big kid). But what should my son be thinking about as he goes through travel team try outs in the next couple of weeks? Does he tell teams he wants to be a PO or does he tryout as a two-way player and let the teams evaluating him decide? My son has always loved the game. To me it seems too soon to decide to pitch in one game a week and just sit and watch the rest of them. If that's the only role he can win, then so be it; but should he choose that path for himself as a HS sophomore?
Not many colleges have two way players, sounds like if he wants to play D1 baseball , pitching is his ticket. Pitching will give you more opportunities. In D1 you have to be able to hit , everyone was the best hitter on their high school / travel team.... if you can hit then they find you a position .
How many times have I heard scouts recruiters talking and I never hear them say , man did you see the glove on that 1st baseman.... it's always that kid can rake , has power,
I had a D1 coach call me about a player in my area , I said the kid can hit... for power and average, he is advanced for his age and his swing translates to the college game... The coach said I feel the same , and I said but where are you going to play him in the field...? He said , well he won't play as a freshman , maybe redshirt, and then as a soph he will likely DH and work his way into to 1st base.
If he is struggling at the plate , cut bait... focus on pitching... Let him hit for his high school team.
I mean in order to play college baseball you have to be really good a something.... not just average at everything.
Just to update a thread that I was responsible for starting a while back (and thanks again to all for some good advice): Son spent HS and summer 2018 seasons as a PO and was very happy in that role. He says he prefers being able to just focus on pitching and doesn't miss the other aspects of the game (although his dad still misses seeing him in the field and at the plate). He has gotten some interest this summer as a P from HA D1 and D3 coaches--any future he has playing beyond HS is clearly as a PO. So it has worked out well. Son made the adjustment easily; dad less so, but is getting there.
Chico Escuela posted:Just to update a thread that I was responsible for starting a while back (and thanks again to all for some good advice): Son spent HS and summer 2018 seasons as a PO and was very happy in that role. He says he prefers being able to just focus on pitching and doesn't miss the other aspects of the game (although his dad still misses seeing him in the field and at the plate). He has gotten some interest this summer as a P from HA D1 and D3 coaches--any future he has playing beyond HS is clearly as a PO. So it has worked out well. Son made the adjustment easily; dad less so, but is getting there.
In my 18 years of coaching kids (at all age levels) I have found that the players are usually much more in tune with their capabilities and their limitations than their parents are.
adbono posted:In my 18 years of coaching kids (at all age levels) I have found that the players are usually much more in tune with their capabilities and their limitations than their parents are.
I resemble that remark!!
Chico Escuela posted:adbono posted:In my 18 years of coaching kids (at all age levels) I have found that the players are usually much more in tune with their capabilities and their limitations than their parents are.
I resemble that remark!!
57special posted:joes87 posted:57special posted:In my area, PO's start to show up on the Freshman/SO team, and really become a thing in JV/Varsity. Since we have a large public, there tend to be plenty of numbers. My eldest was good at everything and had a very strong arm, but his glove/speed filled such a need on the team that his pitching time dwindled as the years went on, while other buddies who started to pitch more with the occasional stint at the corners started to surpass him around Junior yr. Did pitch about 7-8 innings Senior year, but his main value to the team was his ability to go out and get it in the field.
IMO, it's near impossible to play an up the middle defensive position and pitch at a competitive Varsity HS. Pitcher's arms need to rest before and after outings, and fielders need to work on their defense and chemistry.
My youngest is an interesting case. Arguably the best pitcher in his class of 650. Athletic, fast, but by no means the glove wizard. Loves to hit, though, and is pretty good at it. Maybe top 4-5 in his grade? I'm trying to groom him to be a corner OF guy so he can get his AB's in when not on the mound. Don't see a coach wanting a part time 3b, and he's too fast/RH to be a 1B.
One things for sure. We'll have our plans, and the HC will have his. Guess which one wins out?
Same here POs really start around Frosh HS year. Then you see more Soph year and by Jr year you are either a PO or a position player. My son was a two way player for two years in HS. By the time he was a Jr and on the V team he was moved to 1B by the coach. He was throwing mid 80s but was sitting 3rd/4th in the rotation. Coach decided his bat was needed more then his pitching at that point so he became a position player.
Ha! Our HS NEVER has enough pitching, it seems. With the new pitch count rules and the compressed schedules up in the northern midwest it seems like they are always at least one P short, even in their best years.
normally we are in the same boat. My sons graduation year we seemed to be loaded on pitching. Our number 1 went SEC and was a boardline draft pick. Number 2 went to a Juco, Number 3 decided not to play in college (same as my son), 4 and 5 went D2. We also had 3 Jrs riding the bench who could also pitch in a pinch. Add in another 2 or 3 kids who could be two way players if needed and we were deep in pitching that year.
adbono posted:Chico Escuela posted:Just to update a thread that I was responsible for starting a while back (and thanks again to all for some good advice): Son spent HS and summer 2018 seasons as a PO and was very happy in that role. He says he prefers being able to just focus on pitching and doesn't miss the other aspects of the game (although his dad still misses seeing him in the field and at the plate). He has gotten some interest this summer as a P from HA D1 and D3 coaches--any future he has playing beyond HS is clearly as a PO. So it has worked out well. Son made the adjustment easily; dad less so, but is getting there.
In my 18 years of coaching kids (at all age levels) I have found that the players are usually much more in tune with their capabilities and their limitations than their parents are.
I wish that were my case. EVERY coach loves his pitching, and likes his OF. He calls himself an outfielder....since he is a junior this is NOT good!
3and2Fastball posted:
"what I really regret is missing out on the fun of hitting all those summers. I could have had a lot more fun hitting and playing a position as well as pitching, and would've still ended up in the same spot I am right now."
Spot on!
The delima is that the higher level of travel, college or pro you wish to play, the lower number of legit two-way players there are. So have fun while you can, but ensure you are putting enough focus on the skill(s) that will get you to the level you aspire.
You better be a first class stud to play both ways in P5 baseball. I suspect other levels are similar in that area as well. Several kids came into Clemson with that whole "Possibly a 2 way guy" talk and really never did it. I think there is one there now who has pitched and gotten some ABs last year...Michigan HS player of the year, Sam Weatherly...great kid and can play too.
We made my son a P.O. after his freshman year in high school. He's always been a small kid, young for his grade, who wanted to play on the same teams as his classmates and struggled for it. For him. sports has been as much social as athletic - a great chance to have some with his friends. Pitchers who can throw strikes are always in demand, and he wasn't exactly knocking the cover off the ball or making great defensive plays. So a way for him to play with his classmates was to learn to throw strikes and be a pitcher. Although he never threw hard, he threw enough strikes in Little League to be a competent pitcher. It was like that all through Little League and beyond - his real playing time came as a pitcher. He batted way down the lineup.
He (2020) got cut from his freshman team and was devastated. Thankfully his young age allowed him to play baseball in the spring with some 8th graders and he continued to work out and improve his game. He grew about five inches between freshman and JV tryouts, but only put on about 10 pounds. We knew that he wasn't going to worry anyone at the plate, and that he was a serviceable fielder who can make most of the routine plays, but not the challenging ones. Putting him in the OF for tryouts was not going to help him and could only hurt him. There were much better fielders out there.
When it came time for JV tryouts, we decided to play towards his strength - pitching - and not muddy the waters at all by having him play outfield in the vain hope that he might catch on as an outfielder, or show how he could "add value" by playing out there as well as pitching. He tried out as a PO and made the team - barely. He actually pitched for the JV coach's travel team and had three outstanding outings in January before tryouts in February. I told him to treat those starts as an extended JV tryouts - and they were. However, he pitched only five innings over the JV season. He was happy to make the team, but to be honest his development stagnated badly.
Although he has always been slight, he projects to be a monster. His mother and I are both tall and athletic - her like a basketball player, not a long distance runner. His grandparents and uncles are all tall (6'0"+ for guys, 5'10" for mom/grandmothers). I think he'll end up in the 6'4" 220 range. As a junior he is 6'1" but only 130 pounds (top 15% height, 45% percentile weight)! So he needs to bulk up. My point is, he is going to be a big guy, and if he learns to hit he will be able to do something with the bat when his shoulders come in. So we've kept him in hitting lessons, and in the fall baseball "silly season" he's hopefully going to get some at bats and time in the field. We want to keep developing his all around game until such time as a college coach (hopefully!!) tells him it isn't worth it.
He is, for all intents and purposes, a PO. When he tries out for Varsity next year, it will be as a PO. But having said that, we're still going to keep working on his hitting and fielding so that if the day ever comes where he develops a strong desire, or his team has a need, to hit and play the fiend, he has the talent to take advantage of that.
NorCal, my son shot up almost overnight. Actually, he had the stomach flu last year and woke up two inches taller, and before that he wasn’t a slouch either. He started 10th grade at 6’1 and 165. One year later, he is 6’3 and 200.
He drinks at least two gallons of chocolate milk a week and he went through a phase where he ate 6 scrambled eggs before bed every night. This is when he also hit the gym hard. I thought he was nuts, but it’s worked out for him obviously.