Where's PG?

I've wondered the same thing. I always enjoyed his input, and his perspective was extremely valuable.  Mostly I appreciated his willingness to help kids out that he didn't even know...

Perhaps he got tired of being attacked and the "PG Villian" every time he spoke up about anything

I'm pretty sure he bowed out about 6 months or so ago.  There were a couple threads where he was getting beat up pretty badly about issues at Lakepoint and him promoting his company or something along those lines.  I think most of the posters here think that was ridiculous.  Hopefully he still checks in from time to time and sees that there is a need for his perspective and experience.

I think it’s more telling that in his absence there have been waaay fewer posts about PG tournaments and showcases. 

Chicago643 posted:

I think it’s more telling that in his absence there have been waaay fewer posts about PG tournaments and showcases. 

For a dad who is "trying to learn all I can about the recruiting process" (per profile), his insights on how colleges go about recruiting are invaluable.  The fact that he is the person behind what has turned into the premiere recruiting hub should not really be held against him.  He is way past having to promote much of anything to the general public, much less to this group of what is largely baseball parents.

Chicago643 posted:

I think it’s more telling that in his absence there have been waaay fewer posts about PG tournaments and showcases. 

Yes, we all know what a treasure Chicago has been as opposed to PG. Just a wealth of information & assistance to parents trying to navigate the experience. Or not.....

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Chicago643 posted:

I think it’s more telling that in his absence there have been waaay fewer posts about PG tournaments and showcases. 

For a dad who is "trying to learn all I can about the recruiting process" (per profile), his insights on how colleges go about recruiting are invaluable.  The fact that he is the person behind what has turned into the premiere recruiting hub should not really be held against him.  He is way past having to promote much of anything to the general public, much less to this group of what is largely baseball parents.

He wasn’t saying anything that others on this board don’t say, but his view of the importance of PG in the recruitment and drafting of players was a little inflated in my opinion. Sure he’s a nice guy and hope his health is good.

Steve A. posted:

Chicago643 posted:

I think it’s more telling that in his absence there have been waaay fewer posts about PG tournaments and showcases. 

Yes, we all know what a treasure Chicago has been as opposed to PG. Just a wealth of information & assistance to parents trying to navigate the experience. Or not.....

It’s undeniable that the amount of PG related posts have gone down...just stating the facts. 

Wow, I know he had mentioned that he may step away....I hope that's not the case.  Anyone who has had a kid go on to play baseball in college has likely gotten some really good info from PG at one time or another over the years....I know I certainly did.   If those of you who are still going thru the recruiting process with your HS'ers have managed to run him off all I can tell you is that it's your loss.  He would answer any questions with regard to recruiting...whether it had anything to do with PG or not.  He knows a lot of people....and has more connections in the college baseball world than probably anyone else in the country.

Steve A. posted:

Chicago643 posted:

I think it’s more telling that in his absence there have been waaay fewer posts about PG tournaments and showcases. 

Yes, we all know what a treasure Chicago has been as opposed to PG. Just a wealth of information & assistance to parents trying to navigate the experience. Or not.....

I don’t give recruiting advice or information. I state my opinion, which you are welcome to ignore.

Chicago643 posted:

Steve A. posted:

Chicago643 posted:

I think it’s more telling that in his absence there have been waaay fewer posts about PG tournaments and showcases. 

Yes, we all know what a treasure Chicago has been as opposed to PG. Just a wealth of information & assistance to parents trying to navigate the experience. Or not.....

It’s undeniable that the amount of PG related posts have gone down...just stating the facts. 

Uh....it's also February.....and half the country is still covered in snow 

Chicago643 posted:

Steve A. posted:

Chicago643 posted:

I think it’s more telling that in his absence there have been waaay fewer posts about PG tournaments and showcases. 

Yes, we all know what a treasure Chicago has been as opposed to PG. Just a wealth of information & assistance to parents trying to navigate the experience. Or not.....

I don’t give recruiting advice or information. I state my opinion, which you are welcome to ignore.

I "liked" your post, or at least the second half of it (couldn't locate the half-like button)

Chicago643 posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Chicago643 posted:

I think it’s more telling that in his absence there have been waaay fewer posts about PG tournaments and showcases. 

For a dad who is "trying to learn all I can about the recruiting process" (per profile), his insights on how colleges go about recruiting are invaluable.  The fact that he is the person behind what has turned into the premiere recruiting hub should not really be held against him.  He is way past having to promote much of anything to the general public, much less to this group of what is largely baseball parents.

He wasn’t saying anything that others on this board don’t say, but his view of the importance of PG in the recruitment and drafting of players was a little inflated in my opinion. Sure he’s a nice guy and hope his health is good.

Chicago, where are your kids in the recruiting process?  Are you, or have you been a club coach or HS coach actively involved in the recruiting process?

Gov posted:

Chicago643 posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Chicago643 posted:

I think it’s more telling that in his absence there have been waaay fewer posts about PG tournaments and showcases. 

For a dad who is "trying to learn all I can about the recruiting process" (per profile), his insights on how colleges go about recruiting are invaluable.  The fact that he is the person behind what has turned into the premiere recruiting hub should not really be held against him.  He is way past having to promote much of anything to the general public, much less to this group of what is largely baseball parents.

He wasn’t saying anything that others on this board don’t say, but his view of the importance of PG in the recruitment and drafting of players was a little inflated in my opinion. Sure he’s a nice guy and hope his health is good.

Chicago, where are your kids in the recruiting process?  Are you, or have you been a club coach or HS coach actively involved in the recruiting process?

Well I have a feeling that if I tell you my kid is committed to a Power 5 and never attended a PG event you will find a way to say that somehow PG had something to do with that.

PG puts on a great tournament that attracts teams and players. Those tournaments by default bring coaches to recruit. It’s not easy to build, I get it. But PG is also responsible for a lot of kids trying to overthrow and injuring themselves to put a number on a radar, maybe not him personally but the product he hs developed. 

Chicago643 posted:

Steve A. posted:

Chicago643 posted:

I think it’s more telling that in his absence there have been waaay fewer posts about PG tournaments and showcases. 

Yes, we all know what a treasure Chicago has been as opposed to PG. Just a wealth of information & assistance to parents trying to navigate the experience. Or not.....

I don’t give recruiting advice or information. I state my opinion, which you are welcome to ignore.

Don't worry. I will take that advice. Just FYI. Back when all the turmoil went down (basically over nothing) I did PM him & stress that he should not pack it in as his insight was a true value to the site. I do not know him personally, but his experience & knowledge relating to the topics discussed here were the most beneficial that I could find. Fact is he was tired of having to battle against nonsense, directed by the likes of you, suggesting it was all about promoting PG & making $$ or whatever & now he has possibly moved on & we are left with the valid option of ignoring your advice as a substitute for his insight. So thanks & keep up the great work.

Chicago643 posted:

 But PG is also responsible for a lot of kids trying to overthrow and injuring themselves to put a number on a radar, maybe not him personally but the product he hs developed. 

That's maybe the most ridiculous statement that's ever been posted here.   I can tell you from experience that EVERY time a coach with a gun shows up a kid will try to overthrow to light up the gun, even if it's just in a bullpen at practice.....trust me, I have a D1 pitcher who I watched do it for years.   It doesn't matter if it's at PG event, a HS game where a D3 coach is watching or a junior high game with some crazed dad who went out and bought a pocket radar.  Kids are kids....and velo is velo.  Heck, my son is a junior in college now and  he still does it.....every pitcher does.   To somehow try to blame PG or a PG event for arm injuries is really reaching for reasons to put down a guy and his company.

Chicago, I don't know you and you don't know me.  I don't know PG either.  What I do know is he has helped more than a few people on this site in a personal way.  One poster, RedFishFool, who isn't around much can attest to this personally.  I never got the opinion that Jerry "pushed" PG on anyone.  There are multiple posts that he admits PG is not for every player out there.  His stance was the vast majority of the best player were PG alums.  That is just the fact, not Jerry tooting the PG horn.  He really seemed to be in a no-win situation.  When he would use his PG stats to back up or support a position, he was bashed for promoting his organization.  What's a guy to do?  The man had at least one son that played professional baseball.  He coached at the collegiate level.  He was a professional scout.  All this PRIOR to starting PG.  In fact, PG was started, I believe, to allow kids in the Iowa area a chance to train in the winter to try and level the playing field with the southern players.  I'm quite sure he envisioned a successful business.  Why would ANYONE start a business that he / she hopes will fail or not be successful?  Because his business is super successful, some feel as if he personally is part of the problem of parents spending money on kids that have zero chance to make the next level.  That is such a bogus thought process, in my opinion.  It just seems such a shame to me that an individual with as much experience as Jerry has would be made to feel unwelcome on an internet site.  I would think that a parent that has a high school aged kid that is looking for advice or opinions would highly value a person like Jerry Ford of many other posters on this site that have "been there and done that".  You may not always agree with their advice or see an alternate route as better for your specific circumstance, but that doesn't make their advice any less credible.  These are just my humble opinions, so take them for what they are.  I have ZERO skin in the game with PG.  I am 100% convinced that the PG platform was a HUGE part of my son being where he is today.  So maybe I am slightly biased toward PG.

You are welcome to do what you want. Any question someone poses on here has no lack of valid responses, it’s just that 99% of them aren’t the owners of PG. Does their input have merit - absolutely! Is it the gospel? Hell no! Do they have a conflict of interest? In my opinion yes. If you look at how long PG and others trying to compete with them have “stretched the season” for a baseball player, it is apparent they are trying to generate more revenue. Is that best for the players? Hosting tournaments on dates when kids should be in school is one example. How does this benefit anyone other than PGs bottom line? It sure doesn’t promote the “student” aspect of student athlete. 

Chicago643 posted:

Gov posted:

Chicago643 posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Chicago643 posted:

I think it’s more telling that in his absence there have been waaay fewer posts about PG tournaments and showcases. 

For a dad who is "trying to learn all I can about the recruiting process" (per profile), his insights on how colleges go about recruiting are invaluable.  The fact that he is the person behind what has turned into the premiere recruiting hub should not really be held against him.  He is way past having to promote much of anything to the general public, much less to this group of what is largely baseball parents.

He wasn’t saying anything that others on this board don’t say, but his view of the importance of PG in the recruitment and drafting of players was a little inflated in my opinion. Sure he’s a nice guy and hope his health is good.

Chicago, where are your kids in the recruiting process?  Are you, or have you been a club coach or HS coach actively involved in the recruiting process?

Well I have a feeling that if I tell you my kid is committed to a Power 5 and never attended a PG event you will find a way to say that somehow PG had something to do with that.

PG puts on a great tournament that attracts teams and players. Those tournaments by default bring coaches to recruit. It’s not easy to build, I get it. But PG is also responsible for a lot of kids trying to overthrow and injuring themselves to put a number on a radar, maybe not him personally but the product he hs developed. 

Nope, and I know a number of players like that....

This might not be a good site for you.

Just an aside. I did not always agree 100% with PG & he did not always agree with me. I posted on here that I thought the turf mounds at Lakepoint were awful and dangerous. I stand by that. He responded & there was a discussion for everyone to see & chip in on. We do not always have to agree. This is fine. But to accuse the guy of simply being a shill for his company when the vast evidence, thousands of posts offering information & insight, is in direct opposition to a $$ theory is just a quest to ignore the facts & stir it up for no valid reason.

Apparently he had enough & perhaps moved on. I hope it is otherwise.

Chicago643 posted:

Gov posted:

Chicago643 posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Chicago643 posted:

I think it’s more telling that in his absence there have been waaay fewer posts about PG tournaments and showcases. 

For a dad who is "trying to learn all I can about the recruiting process" (per profile), his insights on how colleges go about recruiting are invaluable.  The fact that he is the person behind what has turned into the premiere recruiting hub should not really be held against him.  He is way past having to promote much of anything to the general public, much less to this group of what is largely baseball parents.

He wasn’t saying anything that others on this board don’t say, but his view of the importance of PG in the recruitment and drafting of players was a little inflated in my opinion. Sure he’s a nice guy and hope his health is good.

Chicago, where are your kids in the recruiting process?  Are you, or have you been a club coach or HS coach actively involved in the recruiting process?

Well I have a feeling that if I tell you my kid is committed to a Power 5 and never attended a PG event you will find a way to say that somehow PG had something to do with that.

PG puts on a great tournament that attracts teams and players. Those tournaments by default bring coaches to recruit. It’s not easy to build, I get it. But PG is also responsible for a lot of kids trying to overthrow and injuring themselves to put a number on a radar, maybe not him personally but the product he hs developed. 

Chicago643 posted:

You are welcome to do what you want. Any question someone poses on here has no lack of valid responses, it’s just that 99% of them aren’t the owners of PG. Does their input have merit - absolutely! Is it the gospel? Hell no! Do they have a conflict of interest? In my opinion yes. If you look at how long PG and others trying to compete with them have “stretched the season” for a baseball player, it is apparent they are trying to generate more revenue. Is that best for the players? Hosting tournaments on dates when kids should be in school is one example. How does this benefit anyone other than PGs bottom line? It sure doesn’t promote the “student” aspect of student athlete. 

Bottom line is, you can't sell what people won't buy. People make the choice to buy it. Perfect Game doesn't force anyone to do anything. And I think when someone with the screen name PGStaff posts about Perfect Game, we all should be pretty capable of knowing that there might be a bias in favor of PG, and we all should be pretty capable of taking that bias into account when weighing his advice.

It's not his job to do what's best for our kids. It's his job to give us options and opportunities. It's our job to decide which ones are best for our kids.

Apologize for PG much guys? Geesh! Maybe he left because he doesn't like criticism. If you don't like criticism, a public message board may not be the place for HIM, if his skin is that thin.

I had the privilege of being a part of a conversation a couple summers ago and PGStaff’s name came up. I’ll just say that his heart is in the right place based on what I learned. 

Sometimes, folks have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. 

Chicago643 posted:

Apologize for PG much guys? Geesh! Maybe he left because he doesn't like criticism. If you don't like criticism, a public message board may not be the place for HIM, if his skin is that thin.

"Apologize for PG" - really?  More like apologize to PG for most of the crap folks send his way when they feel like blaming someone.  Apologize to him in hopes that he actually sticks around and keeps passing along his knowledge.  The thing is, a lot of us have thin skins - in that we are working alongside our sons trying to help them reach their goals.  We often lose sight of whose goals they are (or turn into) and we often don't always work in their best interest.  PG's skin thickness doesn't matter to me if I think he is a valuable resource.  Maybe he has developed some thin skin when if comes to abuse, but who could blame him.  This site is not for folks to test their mettle and go head to head with actual experts and see if they can't shout them down.  If you think so, then maybe your are on the wrong site as GOV pointed out.

Why are you on this site?  If your are hear solely to voice your opinion when you disagree, please leave.  If you wish to learn and/or contribute, please stick around and try harder.

Perfect Game provides a menu of opportunities for players of many ages to play. You, as a player / parent get to engage your brain to determine what to select from the menu, or not.

To suggest PG has a quest to crush kids arms with overuse would be equivalent to suggesting McDonalds is on a quest to Make America Fat Again by simply existing & having a menu.  Their job (PG) is to sell tournaments & opportunities. Can you overuse & cause harm ? Yes. McDonalds wants to sell Big Macs. Can you eat too many ? Yes. It's called America / freedom.   

And sometimes they do.

He hasn't posted since  mid November but he still checks in on the site

If Jerry has moved on that's a shame. This site was so fortunate to have such a valuable resource at its disposal. What a great human being. Sad day for the HSBBW if it's true.  

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Chicago643 posted:

Apologize for PG much guys? Geesh! Maybe he left because he doesn't like criticism. If you don't like criticism, a public message board may not be the place for HIM, if his skin is that thin.

"Apologize for PG" - really?  More like apologize to PG for most of the crap folks send his way when they feel like blaming someone.  Apologize to him in hopes that he actually sticks around and keeps passing along his knowledge.  The thing is, a lot of us have thin skins - in that we are working alongside our sons trying to help them reach their goals.  We often lose sight of whose goals they are (or turn into) and we often don't always work in their best interest.  PG's skin thickness doesn't matter to me if I think he is a valuable resource.  Maybe he has developed some thin skin when if comes to abuse, but who could blame him.  This site is not for folks to test their mettle and go head to head with actual experts and see if they can't shout them down.  If you think so, then maybe your are on the wrong site as GOV pointed out.

Why are you on this site?  If your are hear solely to voice your opinion when you disagree, please leave.  If you wish to learn and/or contribute, please stick around and try harder.

oh, you seem to be the gatekeeper, eh? Who died and left you in charge?

Chicago643 posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Chicago643 posted:

Apologize for PG much guys? Geesh! Maybe he left because he doesn't like criticism. If you don't like criticism, a public message board may not be the place for HIM, if his skin is that thin.

"Apologize for PG" - really?  More like apologize to PG for most of the crap folks send his way when they feel like blaming someone.  Apologize to him in hopes that he actually sticks around and keeps passing along his knowledge.  The thing is, a lot of us have thin skins - in that we are working alongside our sons trying to help them reach their goals.  We often lose sight of whose goals they are (or turn into) and we often don't always work in their best interest.  PG's skin thickness doesn't matter to me if I think he is a valuable resource.  Maybe he has developed some thin skin when if comes to abuse, but who could blame him.  This site is not for folks to test their mettle and go head to head with actual experts and see if they can't shout them down.  If you think so, then maybe your are on the wrong site as GOV pointed out.

Why are you on this site?  If your are hear solely to voice your opinion when you disagree, please leave.  If you wish to learn and/or contribute, please stick around and try harder.

oh, you seem to be the gatekeeper, eh? Who died and left you in charge?

Common sense did.

ironhorse posted:

Chicago643 posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Chicago643 posted:

Apologize for PG much guys? Geesh! Maybe he left because he doesn't like criticism. If you don't like criticism, a public message board may not be the place for HIM, if his skin is that thin.

"Apologize for PG" - really?  More like apologize to PG for most of the crap folks send his way when they feel like blaming someone.  Apologize to him in hopes that he actually sticks around and keeps passing along his knowledge.  The thing is, a lot of us have thin skins - in that we are working alongside our sons trying to help them reach their goals.  We often lose sight of whose goals they are (or turn into) and we often don't always work in their best interest.  PG's skin thickness doesn't matter to me if I think he is a valuable resource.  Maybe he has developed some thin skin when if comes to abuse, but who could blame him.  This site is not for folks to test their mettle and go head to head with actual experts and see if they can't shout them down.  If you think so, then maybe your are on the wrong site as GOV pointed out.

Why are you on this site?  If your are hear solely to voice your opinion when you disagree, please leave.  If you wish to learn and/or contribute, please stick around and try harder.

oh, you seem to be the gatekeeper, eh? Who died and left you in charge?

Common sense did.

Look, can we just address the elephant in the room? PG has as many people who doesn't like the business model, or the monetizing of the college baseball recruiting process as those who feel your kids are where they are because of PG. Your kid is where he is because of your kid, not a tournament promoter.

ironhorse posted:

Chicago643 posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Chicago643 posted:

Apologize for PG much guys? Geesh! Maybe he left because he doesn't like criticism. If you don't like criticism, a public message board may not be the place for HIM, if his skin is that thin.

"Apologize for PG" - really?  More like apologize to PG for most of the crap folks send his way when they feel like blaming someone.  Apologize to him in hopes that he actually sticks around and keeps passing along his knowledge.  The thing is, a lot of us have thin skins - in that we are working alongside our sons trying to help them reach their goals.  We often lose sight of whose goals they are (or turn into) and we often don't always work in their best interest.  PG's skin thickness doesn't matter to me if I think he is a valuable resource.  Maybe he has developed some thin skin when if comes to abuse, but who could blame him.  This site is not for folks to test their mettle and go head to head with actual experts and see if they can't shout them down.  If you think so, then maybe your are on the wrong site as GOV pointed out.

Why are you on this site?  If your are hear solely to voice your opinion when you disagree, please leave.  If you wish to learn and/or contribute, please stick around and try harder.

oh, you seem to be the gatekeeper, eh? Who died and left you in charge?

Common sense did.

Too funny. Iron, please change name to "Gatekeeper."

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Chicago643 posted:

Apologize for PG much guys? Geesh! Maybe he left because he doesn't like criticism. If you don't like criticism, a public message board may not be the place for HIM, if his skin is that thin.

"Apologize for PG" - really?  More like apologize to PG for most of the crap folks send his way when they feel like blaming someone.  Apologize to him in hopes that he actually sticks around and keeps passing along his knowledge.  The thing is, a lot of us have thin skins - in that we are working alongside our sons trying to help them reach their goals.  We often lose sight of whose goals they are (or turn into) and we often don't always work in their best interest.  PG's skin thickness doesn't matter to me if I think he is a valuable resource.  Maybe he has developed some thin skin when if comes to abuse, but who could blame him.  This site is not for folks to test their mettle and go head to head with actual experts and see if they can't shout them down.  If you think so, then maybe your are on the wrong site as GOV pointed out.

Why are you on this site?  If your are hear solely to voice your opinion when you disagree, please leave.  If you wish to learn and/or contribute, please stick around and try harder.

Hi Officer.....Having a nice day?

Someone need a little 'google analytics' bump today?

Chicago643 posted:

ironhorse posted:

Chicago643 posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Chicago643 posted:

Apologize for PG much guys? Geesh! Maybe he left because he doesn't like criticism. If you don't like criticism, a public message board may not be the place for HIM, if his skin is that thin.

"Apologize for PG" - really?  More like apologize to PG for most of the crap folks send his way when they feel like blaming someone.  Apologize to him in hopes that he actually sticks around and keeps passing along his knowledge.  The thing is, a lot of us have thin skins - in that we are working alongside our sons trying to help them reach their goals.  We often lose sight of whose goals they are (or turn into) and we often don't always work in their best interest.  PG's skin thickness doesn't matter to me if I think he is a valuable resource.  Maybe he has developed some thin skin when if comes to abuse, but who could blame him.  This site is not for folks to test their mettle and go head to head with actual experts and see if they can't shout them down.  If you think so, then maybe your are on the wrong site as GOV pointed out.

Why are you on this site?  If your are hear solely to voice your opinion when you disagree, please leave.  If you wish to learn and/or contribute, please stick around and try harder.

oh, you seem to be the gatekeeper, eh? Who died and left you in charge?

Common sense did.

Look, can we just address the elephant in the room? PG has as many people who doesn't like the business model, or the monetizing of the college baseball recruiting process as those who feel your kids are where they are because of PG. Your kid is where he is because of your kid, not a tournament promoter.

Chicago, The solution here is simple. You, Chicago, go out & create a superior operation, based upon your principles, & run PG out of business or at least offer a competing experience.

ClevelandDad posted:

I haven't noticed him posting in quite some time.  If I am mistaken about that, someone please let me know and I'll remove this thread.  Hope all is well with him.

Some of us know that Jerry Ford is the primary financial support behind the HSBBW site. If you don't know that, you haven't been paying very close attention.  He hasn't gone anywhere - and if he isn't posting regularly he has his reasons for that - whatever they may be.  But seeing as how you are an administrator on this site it stands to reason that there are many ways you could check in on Jerry Ford that would be more straightforward than this post. So I have to wonder about the intent behind it.  Its not too difficult to predict that a bar fight might break out over this subject  

adbono posted:

ClevelandDad posted:

I haven't noticed him posting in quite some time.  If I am mistaken about that, someone please let me know and I'll remove this thread.  Hope all is well with him.

Some of us know that Jerry Ford is the primary financial support behind the HSBBW site. If you don't know that, you haven't been paying very close attention.  He hasn't gone anywhere - and if he isn't posting regularly he has his reasons for that - whatever they may be.  But seeing as how you are an administrator on this site it stands to reason that there are many ways you could check in on Jerry Ford that would be more straightforward than this post. So I have to wonder about the intent behind it.  Its not too difficult to predict that a bar fight might break out over this subject  

We must go to different bars as this is a pretty low key event compared to my youth...

adbono posted:

ClevelandDad posted:

I haven't noticed him posting in quite some time.  If I am mistaken about that, someone please let me know and I'll remove this thread.  Hope all is well with him.

Some of us know that Jerry Ford is the primary financial support behind the HSBBW site. If you don't know that, you haven't been paying very close attention.  He hasn't gone anywhere - and if he isn't posting regularly he has his reasons for that - whatever they may be.  But seeing as how you are an administrator on this site it stands to reason that there are many ways you could check in on Jerry Ford that would be more straightforward than this post. So I have to wonder about the intent behind it.  Its not too difficult to predict that a bar fight might break out over this subject  

Exactly. Why would PG care to finance and dedicate an inordinate amount of time to this website? Because it is a center of influence, people come here to "learn the ropes." If the site is influenced to a high degree by someone with a business which is predicated upon selling the opportunity to get in front of college coaches, then their word becomes "gospel." People who come to this site share what they learn with others who may not visit it. Most of what has been done by PG isn't bad, and you are right - we all have choices. I just think PG presence on this site is a bit disingenuous.

Steve A. posted:

adbono posted:

ClevelandDad posted:

I haven't noticed him posting in quite some time.  If I am mistaken about that, someone please let me know and I'll remove this thread.  Hope all is well with him.

Some of us know that Jerry Ford is the primary financial support behind the HSBBW site. If you don't know that, you haven't been paying very close attention.  He hasn't gone anywhere - and if he isn't posting regularly he has his reasons for that - whatever they may be.  But seeing as how you are an administrator on this site it stands to reason that there are many ways you could check in on Jerry Ford that would be more straightforward than this post. So I have to wonder about the intent behind it.  Its not too difficult to predict that a bar fight might break out over this subject  

We must go to different bars as this is a pretty low key event compared to my youth...

Well, it hasn't been a low key event on this site and anyone that has been following along knows that. 

I respected PG.  he started Perfect Game as a parent looking for what was best for his son which is why we do most of what we do in baseball.  He was blessed to have built something that became incredible.  Just like most of us would, he took advantage of a blessing and made something great from it. 

On here, I was always thankful for his comments even when they were not always the best for PG.  He said numerous times that PG was a tool to be used.  Not for everyone.  Both of my younger sons were blessed to have been helped tremendously by PG events.  I hope he is still around and gives his insights.

If you don't like PG, then don't take your kid.  That simple.  Just like everything else in life.  But don't blame it for where baseball has moved to.

Personally, I think the attacks on Mr. Ford are unwarranted. If a person took the time to read the posts that he made over the years, you could see that he cared about the kids. He offered to help many kids that he didn't even know.  

Currently there are 286 visitors (as I am writing this post), I think he could find a better way to advertise, so thinking that he is here to just push his agenda is not sound, IMHO.  

Ryno attended several PG Events, but he also didn't attend as many as he was invited to, because we just couldn't afford them.  I do not resent PG at all for that. We had to pick and choose, and in the end, PG wasn't the reason Ryan ended up at CSI, or Purdue.  Fact is, Ryno had many opportunities and some were because of:

• HS Coach Connections
• Travel Team Coach
• Showing well at a tournament
• PG Events
• HS Baseball Web

There were a myriad of ways that a kid can get better and get exposure.  Why would you eliminate a potential tool?  An invaluable piece of knowledge?

I guess to each his own, but some of the posts I am seeing, seem more like sour grapes.  Why? I'm not sure, but there is a chip on someone's shoulder, and it is an unhealthy way to be.  

Did their kid not make an all tournament team?  Did their kid not go to PG National? Etc.?  That's what it seems like.  Attacking a good person, because of jealousy.  That is a bad way to be IMHO.

PGStaff is still around.  With a couple of clicks, he last posted in November and was on this site yesterday.  

Now, to get JH back on now that he has moved on out of baseball.

I really wish this site had an ignore button.

keewart posted:

PGStaff is still around.  With a couple of clicks, he last posted in November and was on this site yesterday.  

Now, to get JH back on now that he have moved on out of baseball.

what?

cabbagedad posted:

keewart posted:

PGStaff is still around.  With a couple of clicks, he last posted in November and was on this site yesterday.  

Now, to get JH back on now that he have moved on out of baseball.

what?

JH?  Not in scouting anymore.  On to a new venture.

You can research by name to see the activity of members.....like I did with PGStaff.

I second the voice of others.  Again, this is not the typical generic message board.  This is a community.  PG has been a long standing pillar of the community and has proven a thousand times over to be not just an invaluable resource but more importantly, a very good person who has gone above and beyond to help so many.  

As Ryno inferred - while this community is an amazing resource, the time PG has spent here would be a truly awful investment if "driving business" was his primary motivating factor, particularly considering the fact that he often comes out and states "we're probably not right for you" toward many.  Sometimes it can be a bit tricky to determine if a person is genuine or not.  It is glaringly obvious with Jerry.

It is really unfortunate, IMO, that a few regular members cannot recognize these things.  In fact, they seem downright determined not to.

keewart posted:

cabbagedad posted:

keewart posted:

PGStaff is still around.  With a couple of clicks, he last posted in November and was on this site yesterday.  

Now, to get JH back on now that he have moved on out of baseball.

what?

JH?  Not is scouting anymore.  On to a new venture.

You can research by name to see the activity of members.....like I did with PGStaff.

I know JH has a ton to offer any industry.  I knew he went to a front office type of position.  I just couldn't see him leaving baseball any time soon.  He seemed to have a fire for matching his baseball experience with the business/analytics side of the game. 

Chicago643 - what's the gig? 

Jerry is by no-means thin-skinned but he is human and I am sure criticism bothers him.  He is the foremost expert on our site and shares his knowledge generously.  His business interest has never interfered.  He knows every college coach, every MLB front office guy and scout, and he knows all the top players and their families.  Nobody (other than him) has that type of knowledge or insight.  Now we want to run him off?  If I have to choose who to run off the site, I know who is getting run.

I ask you firmly at this point to back-off.  Your points have been made and heard.  If this goes any further we just may have to part ways.

I have begun a change.org petition to have Chicago643 banned from the site. 

https://www.change.org/p/mods-...rs?just_created=true

Teaching Elder posted:

I have begun a change.org petition to have Chicago643 banned from the site. 

https://www.change.org/p/mods-...rs?just_created=true

 

Lol.....nice work

just ignore Chicago..... it's not worth anyone's time and effort.  We all know Jerry is a class act.  He as helped more kids over the years, heck some kids he has helped....... they are not even aware he did.

rynoattack posted:

 

.......I guess to each his own, but some of the posts I am seeing, seem more like sour grapes.  Why? I'm not sure, but there is a chip on someone's shoulder, and it is an unhealthy way to be.  

Here's why:

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people."

Nick Saban

Guess into which group Chicago, et al. most likely falls.

Chicago643, 

One definition of a fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

You've expressed your opinions. That's fine. Everyone has heard them.

Now figure out another baseball-related subject you're willing to talk about because people who meet the above definition don't keep their posting privileges here.

Oh my. I love PG. His perspective is like anyone else’s - take it or leave it - and even more interesting because of what he does and the insights he has. 2019 has done 3-4 PG showcases, ranked in top 1000 and fairly high in our state and if we wanted could take him again because he’d probably rank higher now. But we’ve chosen to focus on high academics and related showcases where he’s gotten a lot of attention. I think Perfect Game was really helpful as we got to understand the ropes. And PGStaff is insightful even when I don’t completely see it as he does. His motivations are clear and he’s transparent. He’s here to help us, offer his opinion and he makes money off of his business which is highly related to this site. Who cares if he’s a sponsor of the site?  Also, ClevelandDad can you comment to those of us who haven’t been around forever how the site is funded and if donations are accepted and how we do that?  

I am pretty sure that Chicago and perhaps other identities he has will be gone soon as well.

It's pretty easy for any moderator to pull the switch.

Regardless, I am sure that Jerry is fine, and I understand why he probably hasn't been around.

As far as why the PG events aren't being discussed, it's not recruiting season and D1 coaches are getting their teams ready for season.

True, the showcase circuit ( all showcases) can wear any player down, but the ULTIMATE responsibility lies with the parents.  

It is your job as the parent to monitor your players time on the mound, rest between events, not pitch and catch or play shortstop all at once. To blame others is just wrong.  WRONG. Parents educate you and your sons

Chicago seems like a real a$$hole. I'm no PG proponent but Jeessh, this guy  and the "PG causing all the human maladies inflicted upon the youth in our world today" BS, get real man. Get productive with that anger/energy and shovel some snow for the old ladies on your street.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

I have begun a change.org petition to have Chicago643 banned from the site. 

https://www.change.org/p/mods-...rs?just_created=true

 

Lol.....nice work

Nice work and a classic move.

Teaching Elder posted:

I have begun a change.org petition to have Chicago643 banned from the site. 

https://www.change.org/p/mods-...rs?just_created=true

 

I will just erase TE from the one I started and put Chicago.

JK TE!  I didn't start it.  LOL!

Midwest Mom posted:

Oh my. I love PG. His perspective is like anyone else’s - take it or leave it - and even more interesting because of what he does and the insights he has. 2019 has done 3-4 PG showcases, ranked in top 1000 and fairly high in our state and if we wanted could take him again because he’d probably rank higher now. But we’ve chosen to focus on high academics and related showcases where he’s gotten a lot of attention. I think Perfect Game was really helpful as we got to understand the ropes. And PGStaff is insightful even when I don’t completely see it as he does. His motivations are clear and he’s transparent. He’s here to help us, offer his opinion and he makes money off of his business which is highly related to this site. Who cares if he’s a sponsor of the site?  Also, ClevelandDad can you comment to those of us who haven’t been around forever how the site is funded and if donations are accepted and how we do that?  

Midwest Mom - PG is the main financial contributor to this site and I hope that continues after the beatings he takes.  You can contribute by going to the top of the screen in the menu bar and hovering over HSBASBALLWEB.COM where a Donations tab will show.  Thanks for asking.

I don't come here as often as I once did, but I check in and see there is actually some level of serious question about PG's presence here? AYFKM? His contribution to this site stand on their own merits, and I would guess that 99.9% of members here appreciate him very much. (I'm guessing there are 1,000 active members, which would mean there is precisely ONE person who is of Chicago's view.)

I say this as a father whose son was not highly rated by Perfect Game, and who Jerry happily acknowledged after his college career was over that he surpassed their predictions for him. 

Jerry is a class act through and through. To lose him from this site would be a shame.

Rob Kremer posted:

I don't come here as often as I once did, but I check in and see there is actually some level of serious question about PG's presence here? AYFKM? His contribution to this site stand on their own merits, and I would guess that 99.9% of members here appreciate him very much. (I'm guessing there are 1,000 active members, which would mean there is precisely ONE person who is of Chicago's view.)

I say this as a father whose son was not highly rated by Perfect Game, and who Jerry happily acknowledged after his college career was over that he surpassed their predictions for him. 

Jerry is a class act through and through. To lose him from this site would be a shame.

That's great. Glad for your son, really.

Rob Kremer posted:

I don't come here as often as I once did, but I check in and see there is actually some level of serious question about PG's presence here? AYFKM? His contribution to this site stand on their own merits, and I would guess that 99.9% of members here appreciate him very much. (I'm guessing there are 1,000 active members, which would mean there is precisely ONE person who is of Chicago's view.)

I say this as a father whose son was not highly rated by Perfect Game, and who Jerry happily acknowledged after his college career was over that he surpassed their predictions for him. 

Jerry is a class act through and through. To lose him from this site would be a shame.

RK you have a note on your FB page from me!

FYI to anyone who doesnt know Robs son is a Duke grad.

PG has so much information. It would be sad if he doesn’t go on anymore. The fact that he is willing to share his opinions with us shows us what kind of person he is. I am not sure why anyone feels the need to attack him anyway. I’m sure he doesn’t care because Perfect Game has been putting on the most popular showcases and tournaments for years now. 

Teaching Elder posted:

I have begun a change.org petition to have Chicago643 banned from the site. 

https://www.change.org/p/mods-...rs?just_created=true

 

A petition is not necessary.

Ding dong the witch is dead?

Teaching Elder posted:

Ding dong the witch is dead?

The witch is indeed dead. 

I hope Jerry sees this thread and replies as he is missed around here.

It's very easy for some people to make assumptions. It's also very easy for some people to throw stuff out there behind the safety of a keyboard. The bottom line is I know Jerry. Many here know Jerry. I could tell story after story of how he went out of his way to help a young man he didn't know. I could tell stories about how big his heart is and how much he has shown time and time again how much he cares about young people. Jerry comes here because he loves baseball and enjoys the conversation. He cares about people. Let's face it he doesn't have to come here to promote his brand. He doesn't have to come here to defend himself. This place is somewhere he can go and get away from the every day grind of running a business and life itself. But can anyone blame him for taking a break? You come here and see these idiotic posts and then get attacked by idiotic strangers who don't know you.

We have lost some great posters over the years because they simply found it wasn't worth it. Instead of coming here and enjoying the conversation, sharing and taking a break from the stupidity that life can bring it ends up adding to the negative and not being a positive. I don't post nearly as much as I used to. With the season starting officially today I doubt I post much over the next few months. But I do hope my friend comes back because I miss seeing his posts. And more importantly because this site needs him.

PG has done some amazing things for people in the HSBBWeb community without being asked.  Definitely a top contributor on this site, and a man with a big baseball heart. 

But where is he?  I can't find him either?

Any baseball site should love to have PG as a contributor. All of the discussions here are worse off if he is no longer going to post. He is THE leading figure in the youth baseball industry. I have never understood peoples complaints about PG. All he did was figure out there was a huge demand for information on youth baseball players by college and pro sources. He figured out a way to fill that hole in the market by creating the number one source for that information. That's great, I love hearing the stories of how entrepreneurs are successful.

PG isn't driving the kids to try to be in baseball shape to showcase and throw max effort all year. Its PARENTS misreading what they need to do to get their kid recognized. PG is only offering a product and picking up money that parents are putting out there. if you want to complain after the fact that throwing all year and chasing a scholarship didn't work out I don't really feel bad for you. I feel for your kid, not the parent. Its not too hard to find information that doing this is not the best for your kids health and a lot of players get scholarships showing they can play at other places than PG. Most complaints about PG come off as sour grapes because parents plans didn't work. My kid is playing in the WWBA why is he not getting offers? Because he can't hit or pitch better than other kids in his grad year not PG selling you a shady product that over promised.

I need to throw in here.  Been reading the posts, but have been very busy at work and haven't taken the time to post.  PG is/was(?) a great asset to this board.  Hopefully the idiotic posts have not run him off and he is just taking a break.  For the life of me I can't figure out why folks will bash on him.  He has given sound advice that has helped many folks over the years.  So he mentions his business from time to time.  Normally its in relation to a specific question or complaint.  Its not like he is spamming these boards every day.  Nor have I seen him dump on competing businesses on here (PBR, et al).  

Ja'Crispy posted:

Any baseball site should love to have PG as a contributor. All of the discussions here are worse off if he is no longer going to post. He is THE leading figure in the youth baseball industry. I have never understood peoples complaints about PG. All he did was figure out there was a huge demand for information on youth baseball players by college and pro sources. He figured out a way to fill that hole in the market by creating the number one source for that information. That's great, I love hearing the stories of how entrepreneurs are successful.

PG isn't driving the kids to try to be in baseball shape to showcase and throw max effort all year. Its PARENTS misreading what they need to do to get their kid recognized. PG is only offering a product and picking up money that parents are putting out there. if you want to complain after the fact that throwing all year and chasing a scholarship didn't work out I don't really feel bad for you. I feel for your kid, not the parent. Its not too hard to find information that doing this is not the best for your kids health and a lot of players get scholarships showing they can play at other places than PG. Most complaints about PG come off as sour grapes because parents plans didn't work. My kid is playing in the WWBA why is he not getting offers? Because he can't hit or pitch better than other kids in his grad year not PG selling you a shady product that over promised.

^^This.

Coach_May posted:

It's very easy for some people to make assumptions. It's also very easy for some people to throw stuff out there behind the safety of a keyboard. The bottom line is I know Jerry. Many here know Jerry. I could tell story after story of how he went out of his way to help a young man he didn't know. I could tell stories about how big his heart is and how much he has shown time and time again how much he cares about young people. Jerry comes here because he loves baseball and enjoys the conversation. He cares about people. Let's face it he doesn't have to come here to promote his brand. He doesn't have to come here to defend himself. This place is somewhere he can go and get away from the every day grind of running a business and life itself. But can anyone blame him for taking a break? You come here and see these idiotic posts and then get attacked by idiotic strangers who don't know you.

We have lost some great posters over the years because they simply found it wasn't worth it. Instead of coming here and enjoying the conversation, sharing and taking a break from the stupidity that life can bring it ends up adding to the negative and not being a positive. I don't post nearly as much as I used to. With the season starting officially today I doubt I post much over the next few months. But I do hope my friend comes back because I miss seeing his posts. And more importantly because this site needs him.

Coach May don’t go away!  Most of us are positive. I can count on one hand the jerks. I always call them out or post in opposition and the really bad ones get kicked out. This is how communities are though. Hope you stick it out. We all need those who’ve been through it. 

Jerry has always been very honest PG isn’t for everyone. It’s not his responsibility to make the decision for players. It’s the player’s parents and their coaches (advisors) who are responsible for the decision.

I don’t understand why this subject comes up a couple of times per year. It’s like defending Mercedes. If you don’t like them don’t buy one. But not liking Mercedes doesn’t stop it from being a great car in most people’s eyes.

Teaching Elder posted:

Ding dong the witch is dead?

I think to some it was obvious who the witch was. Fooled me at first. I thought that it was someone else.  The attack on PG sealed the deal.

Sounds like this dad has some issues going on, no interest in his player, it was evident the last topic he started, about how a coach may have mishandled an incident.  Hope he is reading this, Shoveit4ks was right, guy is a real a$$.

People be aware that when they pull the plug, you may be able to sneak in the back door, but your attitude will eventually give you away. 

"If a person took the time to read the posts that he made over the years, you could see that he cared about the kids. He offered to help many kids that he didn't even know."

Yes, and I'm one of those people. I realized right away that this guy's heart is in the right place by reading old threads. I'm an aunt who is responsible for helping nephew navigate his recruiting journey, and this site was a life saver. I've only been on here for a few months and never personally interacted with PG, but have read LOTS of old threads. I was impressed that anyone on staff at PG would take the time to provide such insightful and helpful feedback. I read many of PG's posts before I read a thread that gave away his identity.

I was blown away to learn that such an influential person would spend his "spare" time to help our kids! Kids he doesn't know! I read several of his old posts in which he offered to help kids who needed assistance (financially or otherwise). He even solicited PMs so he could personally assure that assistance. It was obvious he genuinely cares about the future success of baseball and the kids who are its future. 

PG is like the volunteer youth team coach who doesn't have a kid on the team:  he donates his time and expertise because he truly loves the game and the kids. That makes me respect and celebrate his entrepreneurial success even more! This aunt certainly thanks you PG for all the posts you have made thus far. Even if you never post again, your existing posts will educate for many years to come.     

Someone above mentioned that this site is a "community" rather than just a typical online forum. I have found that to be true. Thanks to all of you who have helped create and maintain that environment for us newcomers. 

adbono posted:

ClevelandDad posted:

I haven't noticed him posting in quite some time.  If I am mistaken about that, someone please let me know and I'll remove this thread.  Hope all is well with him.

Some of us know that Jerry Ford is the primary financial support behind the HSBBW site. If you don't know that, you haven't been paying very close attention.  He hasn't gone anywhere - and if he isn't posting regularly he has his reasons for that - whatever they may be.  But seeing as how you are an administrator on this site it stands to reason that there are many ways you could check in on Jerry Ford that would be more straightforward than this post. So I have to wonder about the intent behind it.  Its not too difficult to predict that a bar fight might break out over this subject  

I have been a moderator on this site for way over a decade.  I was fortunate to be asked by Julie to moderate a couple of forums when she took over from the chief cook and bottle washer.  You make assumption that aren't correct.  While I have certain abilities, I don't have access to all of Jerry's stuff.  I used to communicate with him a very long time ago when this site went through a major problem with an individual or two.  As was I, he was the target of this attack.  He was extremely supportive of me and what me and my family were going through.  

I've taken time to not respond to this while I went and read a history of posts from some critical of Jerry.  Jerry's contributions over this length of time reflect his original intent of his organization and then shows the progression and the efforts he made to create a quality business that has benefited thousands.  Go read them sometime.  I personally have had players benefit from PG Events.  I coach at a small HS where few knew my players back in the day but several now have gone on to play professionally.  I fail to see the breath of quality contribution for others but rather see only criticism.  It would be a shame if Jerry has decided to stop contributing to this site.  Maybe some of you critical could now provide more than opinions.  How about substance on how players should go about the process of recruitment, maybe posts about the game itself or otherwise positive contribution.  

Take care,

Darrell Butler

Chicago643 posted:

Look, can we just address the elephant in the room? PG has as many people who doesn't like the business model, or the monetizing of the college baseball recruiting process as those who feel your kids are where they are because of PG. 

Show me the data.

...driving in my car this morning and I swear, for some reason, started singing that dumb song...  "Ding, Dong, the w... "

It's bad enough I'm a terrible singer.   For a second, I'm thinking "where did that come from?" 

What's that commercial?  "Wanna get away?"

joemktg posted:

Chicago643 posted:

Look, can we just address the elephant in the room? PG has as many people who doesn't like the business model, or the monetizing of the college baseball recruiting process as those who feel your kids are where they are because of PG. 

Show me the data.

I will be the first to admit that I am not all in 100% on some points in the business model. But I also admit that my son greatly benefited from Jupiter WWBA and a few showcases.

He landed up at Clemson because of being seen at a tournament. Not the only factor but he was seen and that is the idea, correct? PG played a role and that's what counts.  Frustration comes when things dont work out, and that's not helping anyone. I suggest to anyone, regardless of the business, take your frustration out on the phone, to an email. It's what's fair for everyone.

We all know that Jerry Ford is the benefactor to this site. I have made a personal appeal to him regarding badly needed updates  and changes to our site, over the phone as I felt that was the proper avenue to take.

I hope that he is reading. 

cabbagedad posted:

...driving in my car this morning and I swear, for some reason, started singing that dumb song...  "Ding, Dong, the w... "

It's bad enough I'm a terrible singer.   For a second, I'm thinking "where did that come from?" 

What's that commercial?  "Wanna get away?"

Well...at least you're not that guy driving the ball hopper cart at the driving range with people hitting the balls at you.  My son loves that commercial. LOL.

I’m gonna step in here and give my 2 cents which I am usually very careful to do on this board. PG is certainly not the only way to learn about and participate in the college recruiting process but I will say this. Son has been excited to perform in PG tournaments because we know in most cases he will be facing top notch competition. He has been given feedback via trackman that has taught us a lot about his delivery, strengths and weaknesses in pitches we wouldn’t have gotten for free any where else. He has NOT been to a PG showcase only tournaments, and he has verbally committed to an outstanding D1 program during his sophomore year. Those same coaches were able to monitor him and see him pitch twice last summer at PG events in Lake Pointe and Ft Myers against strong competition hopefully reinforcing their decision to offer him that young as a good decision. None of that cost me any more than being in any other travel event we have been in. As son enters his junior year we decided in this his final summer travel season we could only do a couple things beyond his normal summer team schedule and the first thing out of his mouth was he wanted to do the National Showcase at the Trop if invited. Because of that, and the fact that he just happened to receive the invite 4 days later, dad has agreed to take him and pay for his first showcase as a reward for his hard work. So in my world PG has provided my son the chance to be seen, the opportunity to show his skill set against the best competition, receive feedback via electronic data and from his potential college coaches, and also give him confidence in himself, and an avenue for reward from dad, all at no cost to me to this point. I also have received feedback from Jerry in a PM within 24 hours of asking a question about my son last October. For those of you who want to drive him away from this website, go find your own place to provide your noise!

I think where these waters get muddy is when we mix in Jerry with PG and the industry.  No doubt, from everything I have seen, Jerry Ford is a stand up guy with a big heart.  On the flip side, the industry as a whole has monetized a kids dream.  For better or worse Jerry is the founder of the industry leader Perfect Game.  Absolutely having the founder available for feed back has value.  Yes, the 1%er's all love the industry.  The industry was made for the 1%er's.  BUT, the industry wouldn't be what it is today without all the 99%er's. 

Being a parent is hard.  Probably why being a parent is so darn rewarding.  The industry creates a lot of stress on the parent of 99%er's.  Parents want to provide every opportunity for their kid to succeed.  The common theme to be the best you have to play the best.   To support this costs BIG dollars.  Many times dollars families can't afford or at least stretch the budget.  Parents will do everything they can to help support their son's dreams.  Many times it's easier to pay the freight than tell your son he is only average and it doesn't make sense to spend the money to travel across the country.  Again that's on the parent, but the industry put the parent in that position.  In the past the game made it obvious when it was time to hang them up.   

I know in the end that what event, tournament, showcase, coach, travel team my son plays has very little  to do with when my son will no longer be asked to play.  

2019Lefty21 posted:

I’m gonna step in here and give my 2 cents which I am usually very careful to do on this board. PG is certainly not the only way to learn about and participate in the college recruiting process but I will say this. Son has been excited to perform in PG tournaments because we know in most cases he will be facing top notch competition. He has been given feedback via trackman that has taught us a lot about his delivery, strengths and weaknesses in pitches we wouldn’t have gotten for free any where else. He has NOT been to a PG showcase only tournaments, and he has verbally committed to an outstanding D1 program during his sophomore year. Those same coaches were able to monitor him and see him pitch twice last summer at PG events in Lake Pointe and Ft Myers against strong competition hopefully reinforcing their decision to offer him that young as a good decision. None of that cost me any more than being in any other travel event we have been in. As son enters his junior year we decided in this his final high school season we could only do a couple things beyond his normal summer team schedule and the first thing out of his mouth was he wanted to do the National Showcase at the Trop if invited. Because of that, and the fact that he just happened to receive the invite 4 days later, dad has agreed to take him and pay for his first showcase as a reward for his hard work. So in my world PG has provided my son the chance to be seen, the opportunity to show his skill set against the best competition, receive feedback via electronic data and from his potential college coaches, and also give him confidence in himself, and an avenue for reward from dad, all at no cost to me to this point. I also have received feedback from Jerry in a PM within 24 hours of asking a question about my son last October. For those of you who want to drive him away from this website, go find your own place to provide your noise!

No question the PG model works for the guys like your kid.  They are the top % of players destined for D1.  But what does it do for the average HS kid who'll end up at the local D3 college less than an hour from his house?  Sure the competition, travel, team stories and life experience will all count for something.  But I know several players/families that have spent thousands traveling the country only to go to a small school in their back yard.  I also know a few that never left the "neighborhood" and ended up at the same place. 

I don't understand the disdain or criticism being leveled at "monetizing" the desire to play higher level baseball. The only way to monetize something is to offer a service or product that people find valuable and will pay for. In other words, pretty much everything that exists in the private sector economy.  Perfect Game is the industry leader in baseball showcases and tournaments, and not by a small margin. That means one thing for sure: their service provides value. 

keewart posted:

PGStaff is still around.  With a couple of clicks, he last posted in November and was on this site yesterday.  

Now, to get JH back on now that he has moved on out of baseball.

I saw that. I hope JH does well in new venture.  RFF

Golfman25 posted:

2019Lefty21 posted:

I’m gonna step in here and give my 2 cents which I am usually very careful to do on this board. PG is certainly not the only way to learn about and participate in the college recruiting process but I will say this. Son has been excited to perform in PG tournaments because we know in most cases he will be facing top notch competition. He has been given feedback via trackman that has taught us a lot about his delivery, strengths and weaknesses in pitches we wouldn’t have gotten for free any where else. He has NOT been to a PG showcase only tournaments, and he has verbally committed to an outstanding D1 program during his sophomore year. Those same coaches were able to monitor him and see him pitch twice last summer at PG events in Lake Pointe and Ft Myers against strong competition hopefully reinforcing their decision to offer him that young as a good decision. None of that cost me any more than being in any other travel event we have been in. As son enters his junior year we decided in this his final high school season we could only do a couple things beyond his normal summer team schedule and the first thing out of his mouth was he wanted to do the National Showcase at the Trop if invited. Because of that, and the fact that he just happened to receive the invite 4 days later, dad has agreed to take him and pay for his first showcase as a reward for his hard work. So in my world PG has provided my son the chance to be seen, the opportunity to show his skill set against the best competition, receive feedback via electronic data and from his potential college coaches, and also give him confidence in himself, and an avenue for reward from dad, all at no cost to me to this point. I also have received feedback from Jerry in a PM within 24 hours of asking a question about my son last October. For those of you who want to drive him away from this website, go find your own place to provide your noise!

No question the PG model works for the guys like your kid.  They are the top % of players destined for D1. But what does it do for the average HS kid who'll end up at the local D3 college less than an hour from his house?  Sure the competition, travel, team stories and life experience will all count for something.  But I know several players/families that have spent thousands traveling the country only to go to a small school in their back yard.  I also know a few that never left the "neighborhood" and ended up at the same place. 

My first thought then is who's fault is this?  You can't suggest it is Jerry's fault.  Parents have to be honest with themselves and I'd suggest that most really know the abilities of their sons but still reach for this slight chance that something bigger might come along.  TB Coaches also should be held accountable.  PG is offering a service.  Buyer beware.  Parents if you are honest with yourself, you know the level of play your son can play at.  JMHO!

CoachB25 posted:

Golfman25 posted:

2019Lefty21 posted:

I’m gonna step in here and give my 2 cents which I am usually very careful to do on this board. PG is certainly not the only way to learn about and participate in the college recruiting process but I will say this. Son has been excited to perform in PG tournaments because we know in most cases he will be facing top notch competition. He has been given feedback via trackman that has taught us a lot about his delivery, strengths and weaknesses in pitches we wouldn’t have gotten for free any where else. He has NOT been to a PG showcase only tournaments, and he has verbally committed to an outstanding D1 program during his sophomore year. Those same coaches were able to monitor him and see him pitch twice last summer at PG events in Lake Pointe and Ft Myers against strong competition hopefully reinforcing their decision to offer him that young as a good decision. None of that cost me any more than being in any other travel event we have been in. As son enters his junior year we decided in this his final high school season we could only do a couple things beyond his normal summer team schedule and the first thing out of his mouth was he wanted to do the National Showcase at the Trop if invited. Because of that, and the fact that he just happened to receive the invite 4 days later, dad has agreed to take him and pay for his first showcase as a reward for his hard work. So in my world PG has provided my son the chance to be seen, the opportunity to show his skill set against the best competition, receive feedback via electronic data and from his potential college coaches, and also give him confidence in himself, and an avenue for reward from dad, all at no cost to me to this point. I also have received feedback from Jerry in a PM within 24 hours of asking a question about my son last October. For those of you who want to drive him away from this website, go find your own place to provide your noise!

No question the PG model works for the guys like your kid.  They are the top % of players destined for D1. But what does it do for the average HS kid who'll end up at the local D3 college less than an hour from his house?  Sure the competition, travel, team stories and life experience will all count for something.  But I know several players/families that have spent thousands traveling the country only to go to a small school in their back yard.  I also know a few that never left the "neighborhood" and ended up at the same place. 

My first thought then is who's fault is this?  You can't suggest it is Jerry's fault.  Parents have to be honest with themselves and I'd suggest that most really know the abilities of their sons but still reach for this slight chance that something bigger might come along.  TB Coaches also should be held accountable.  PG is offering a service.  Buyer beware.  Parents if you are honest with yourself, you know the level of play your son can play at.  JMHO!

 

Yes and no.  Sure the parent has to say "no, this is nuts" at some point.  But the showcase organizations keep opening up more and more spots.  At some point maybe they need to say less is more. 

Golfman25 posted:

2019Lefty21 posted:

 

No question the PG model works for the guys like your kid.  They are the top % of players destined for D1.  But what does it do for the average HS kid who'll end up at the local D3 college less than an hour from his house?  Sure the competition, travel, team stories and life experience will all count for something.  But I know several players/families that have spent thousands traveling the country only to go to a small school in their back yard.  I also know a few that never left the "neighborhood" and ended up at the same place. 

I don't know how you define average but on my sons D3 team many of the boys were all-league, all-area and what not...that is not average.

From a PG perspective I would agree many D3 kids could have ended up at the same place without PG - maybe the source of your frustration should be from the travel program that put them there or the parents who allowed them to play on a team that took that route.

From my perspective PG is a luxury company, they have a high end product and it is worth every penny to some people...the problem is the value isn't the same to everyone and those same people don't always realize it until it is purchased and used. Much the same as people who buy an exotic car and complain about the cost of repairs. They probably should have never bought the car.

I put the blame on the organizations more than PG. Organizations won’t/don’t communicate honestly with parents and players. They need them as fillers to support their D1 guys that  they are focused on, who they put at the top of their lists of alumni so that they build their prestige. 

D1 folks also get suckered into playing for certain programs because of past alumni and current teammates and bragging rights. Kids can showcase at any PG, PBR event with any team. Doesn’t have to be Evoshield or Team Elite. One of our past teams, whom I still love and respect as Christian brothers, had three PG all-Americans this year.  They proudly put that in their alumni section as if they had something to do with it. LOL. Others do the same. 

I debated as to whether of not to post anything on this topic.  I dare say that having 4 that went through the recruiting , travel ball, PG events I have been to more and seen more than 99% of the parents.  of course that in it's self does not make me an authority on the subject but close.  

It seems the issue is with parents that really do not understand the landscape.  First of all to blame Jerry for creating PG , attending his events, and then complaining that your son did not get multiple D1 offers is ridiculous.  So let's drop the PG is suckering parents , that is simply not the case.

It should be required reading for every new parent to read the posts that PGStaff, TPM, and many others have posted.  I my 8-9 years on this board I have had to often times learn the hard way.  But what they say is true, parents just refuse to hear it.  1.) PG is not for everyone.  2) go to a school that if baseball ended prematurely for you that you can still attend and get your education.  3.) for most 95% of the players looking to play in college , have good grades.  Good scores and grades will take you further than relying on a travel team coach, PG , PBR etc.   4.) Control what you can control.

Furthermore,  I often wonder if not most of the time the parents are wanting this more than the student/athlete.  Wow there's a term you don't hear much, student/athlete.  

I ask the question, do parents really feel that attending a PG event is going to get you noticed and get an offer?  PG provides the venue, they  do not decide for the multitude of coaches, teams, RC's and HC's who is going to go to what game and if your player is even going to perform to the level .

If they capped the teams , then people would complain that they are elitist.  

i would guess that if you asked the players that go to these events they realize the chances they get an offer is low. But there are other reasons to go.  doing your best, maybe beating a Team Elite or Evoshield.  In the last Jupiter tourney TE lost 2 or maybe 3 games.  Being in Florida, hoping it doesn't rain.  Batting against a Hankins or Rocker and busting a double on them. The experience and sharing that with your son.   

Not one of my boys went to a PG showcase... we did go to PG tourney's with their travel team.   Oh and my older son, he was on the OVC championship team last year , went to Florida State regional and his team beat FSU.  His summer/travel team was regional to Nashville.  My second son played on the same regional travel  team with Kyle Wright .. surely you have heard of him.  He did not play for the Canes or TE.  But he had the goods, the it factor , the talent.   The old saying is true, if you are good enough they will find you.

Here’s who I feel should be at major PG events ...

... The player so good any coach or scout would notice.

... The player good enough his credible and connected travel coach recommends him to college coaches and they come to watch.

Anyone else is trying to bust through a wall. It can be done. But in the big picture the numbers are few.

Teaching Elder posted:

I put the blame on the organizations more than PG. Organizations won’t/don’t communicate honestly with parents and players. They need them as fillers to support their D1 guys that  they are focused on, who they put at the top of their lists of alumni so that they build their prestige. 

D1 folks also get suckered into playing for certain programs because of past alumni and current teammates and bragging rights. Kids can showcase at any PG, PBR event with any team. Doesn’t have to be Evoshield or Team Elite. One of our past teams, whom I still love and respect as Christian brothers, had three PG all-Americans this year.  They proudly put that in their alumni section as if they had something to do with it. LOL. Others do the same. 

I get your point but I think the parents should take the majority of the blame for being blind to their darling child's ability or to easily cough up $$$ to an unscrupulous travel org to play at every event that there could be a scout. 

Jerry has never needed this site to gain credibility for PG.

It has always been the other way around.

His willingness to share his wisdom here has made this site more useful and credible. 

I've read through the whole thread, this is the best nugget out of the bunch, and it was by Real Green "I think where these waters get muddy is when we mix in Jerry with PG and the industry."

Yes, that's where it gets muddy.  Jerry Ford the person...never heard anything bad about him.  PG is a business, and not even the business he intended....there are always going to be people that don't like a business for whatever reason.  Starbucks charging $6 for a cup of coffee comes to mind, if it wasn't for that darn pumpkin spice latte they would never get my business....grrrrr...miss pumpkin spice lattes

CaCO3Girl posted:

I've read through the whole thread, this is the best nugget out of the bunch, and it was by Real Green "I think where these waters get muddy is when we mix in Jerry with PG and the industry."

Yes, that's where it gets muddy.  Jerry Ford the person...never heard anything bad about him.  PG is a business, and not even the business he intended....there are always going to be people that don't like a business for whatever reason.  Starbucks charging $6 for a cup of coffee comes to mind, if it wasn't for that darn pumpkin spice latte they would never get my business....grrrrr...miss pumpkin spice lattes

I wasn’t aware you’re a racist. At least that’s what some liberal organization said of pumpkin spice coffee drinkers. Donald Trump owns some buildings that lease space to Starbucks and Dunkin. Therefore, if you drink pumpkin spice coffee you are contributing to the welfare of a racist, making you a racist.

Why the other Starbucks and Dunkin products don’t apply doesn’t make sense to me. They also pay the rent. But extremist political wackos don’t often make sense to me. 

http://www.washingtonexaminer....roup/article/2634193

CaCO3Girl posted:

I've read through the whole thread, this is the best nugget out of the bunch, and it was by Real Green "I think where these waters get muddy is when we mix in Jerry with PG and the industry."

Yes, that's where it gets muddy.  Jerry Ford the person...never heard anything bad about him.  PG is a business, and not even the business he intended....there are always going to be people that don't like a business for whatever reason.  Starbucks charging $6 for a cup of coffee comes to mind, if it wasn't for that darn pumpkin spice latte they would never get my business....grrrrr...miss pumpkin spice lattes

Things get even muddier when we lump Jerry and PG in with Lake Point.  They are separate entities.  Lake Point is responsible for playing surfaces, parking fees and admissions fees to their facilities. 

This has gotten ridiculous.  In most cases, nobody here has a kid playing college baseball (or professional) that hasn't had some help along the line.  If you did, you're a minority.  So PG puts on tourneys....and it's expensive to go there....but how "expensive" is "expensive"...and what percentage of your $$$$ that you spent over the years in travel ball did PG get?  

I know guys who have their kid go to a pitching coach year round....and a couple of those kids never started a meaningful game in HS....and didn't end up playing in college.  How "expensive" were those lessons....and they ended up being completely worthless.

 I know a kid who went to exactly ONE PG event...had an ok event....not great....BUT was seen by a coach that would have never seen him if he had  played only here in Ohio.....got offered (his only offer) and ended up with a nice scholarship.   How much was that one trip to a PG event worth?  

My son went to the WWBA twice....once as a 14U player on a horrible team.  We didn't go there for exposure....heck, my son is the only kid from that team that ended up playing in college....but he was maybe 5' and weighed 100 pounds at the time.  He threw a complete game 3-hitter against one of the East Cobb teams....and still considers that game maybe his best pitching outing EVER.   We used the trip as a family vacation with 2 other families ont he team...."expensive"....nah, we would have taken a vacation anyway...and the kid still talks about that game....well worth the cost

He went again as a 17U player....had a nice outing and 2 days later got a call from the RC at the school he ended up at.   They saw him there....against good competition and liked him.  Offered and accepted within a week.   Guess what....the school is 45 minutes from our house....and up until that day at LakePoint, they had never seen him play....even  though by that point he had been gettng looks by some other D1's.   The coaches were at LakePoint because that's where coaches go....they can see 100's of kids in one place in a short amount of time.  Makes sense to me.    My son went to PG that year with the team....we couldn't make it.  We probably had $300 invested in the entire trip for him....and based on the team entry fee and how many kids were on the team.....a whopping $60-70 of that amount went to PG...the rest went to hotels, team fees, food, coaching staff etc....but PG is still "expensive"???  Not from our perspective....4 years of baseball money easily covered that $70 that Jerry's company took in.....with some to spare

It's all about perspective people....what is "expensive"....depends not on $$$ spent....but on what return you may or may not get for spending that $$$