Which player do you want????

This is a question I've heard scouts/college coaches ask our sons.

 

Personally, I HATE TO LOSE more than I love to win.  Its a stronger feeling.  Winning feels good/great.  Losing ruins my day.

I would rather have a kid who hates to lose.  The kid who hates to lose is more likely to understand and enjoy the process.  The kid who wants to win is more likely to get caught up in the desired result at the expense of process.

I tend to think of the quality less as "wanting to win" versus "hating to lose" as I do wanting to out-compete everyone in everything.

 

Hating to lose is certainly symptomatic of the kids I'm thinking about; but, more than that, they're driven to compete in everything they undertake. Even when they're practicing on their own, they're competing against unseen competitors elsewhere who might be practicing more and/or better than they.

 

Kids like this seek out the best competition. They want to play with and against the best. They consider themselves "warriors," and they want to surround themselves with others who have the same orientation.

I agree with this.  I'm not really sure which my son is.  He likes winning and he hates losing, but more than anything, he wants to be his best every time out there.  He is a pitcher and even if he wins, he will not always be happy with his performance.  I want that. 

 

Some family members came to his last summer league game this past summer.  He gave up 2 runs in the first, then shut down the other team for the next 5 innings.  They were all very impressed with how he pitched.  I told my brother that my son was not really "on".  That he didn't have his best stuff.  He told me I was crazy, that he pitched really well.  I told him I guarantee my son will tell him he wasn't sharp.  I told him to ask my son after the game how he did and he'll tell you it wasn't great.  Well, he asked him, before I said anything, and my son said, "not too good, didn't have my best stuff".  His team lost the game 2-1 (summer league championship game) and those 2 runs in the first were all he gave up, but my son knew he wasn't at his best. 

 

I tell all that because I agree with Prepster.  I want the kid who is always competing against not only the opponent, but himself.  Always wanting to do better.  And my son also competes in EVERYTHING he does.  Whether its baseball, cards, an argument about something that means absolutely nothing, he just never wants to lose.  To the point it can get irritating at times.  Haha.

Two weeks ago in the first quarter of my son's football game (2016, DT) he tackled a kid and dislocated his shoulder (non-throwing arm).  He stood up and popped the arm bone back into the shoulder socket and kept playing (not a good idea).  He didn't tell his coaches, trainer, or other teamates.  He played the rest of the game at nose tackle, long snapper, and some H back.  It was on the way home that he asked to go to the hospital.

 

Later when asked why he continued to play, he told his coach that he kept playing  to help his teamates win, and that he hates losing.  His coach asked him if he was in a lot of pain and he said it was very painfull and it hurt a lot less once he popped it back in and that pain is the price for playing the game.  Although his decission to not tell his coaches and keep playing was poor, his attitude was great.  I want warriors on my side.

When I think of a guy who hated to lose, I think of Allen Iverson.  He would do everything in his power not to lose... during the game.  He was also very well known for his views on "practice".  So I'll go against the "hate to lose" idea here.  What I see in the highly successful players and coaches is a passion for perfection.  They don't hate losing as much as the idea that they could have done more to win.  They always think that they could have trained harder, prepared more, or executed better.  Those are the competitors who stand out to me.

Great post Prepster.  I agree totally with you and bballman.  Those kind of kids of players have that intangible quality of passion.  They tend to be their own biggest critic.  They know what they did right/wrong and know what they have to do to correct or maintain in order to achieve their performance goal.  I will take that kind of player any day

 

Winning and losing are mutually exclusive. So I can't get my head around the difference between wanting to do one of them and hating to do the other.

 

But I can get my head around players who "play not to lose". See them all the time, and they are welcomed to join the opposition. Always playing it safe, never taking calculated chances, defensive, get the game dictated to them.....and on many occasions a little peevish when things are not going their way.

 

So between a player who plays to win and a player who plays not to lose, I'll take the former any day.

Playing not to lose is very different than a player who hates to lose which was the OP's original question

or 3) a player that's a winner

A+++ Prepster.

Any player that wants to compete to the best of his/her ability is more than welcome on my team.

Exactly.  Two totally different things.

I hear what you are saying, and that's why I put in that disclaimer at the top of my post.

 

But now that you bring it up, I think there is direct relevance. Players who are motivated by their aversion to losing will eventually play to avoid losing, I think.

 

I have had a lot of coaches and have observed a lot of coaches.....can't remember one trying to rally the troops by saying "let's not lose, I hate it". What was Chip Kelly's mantra at Oregon? "Let's not lose the day"?

 

If aversion to losing is a greater motivator than the joy of winning, I think a player eventually plays not to lose. Can't prove it, just an opinion based on the small slice of competition I have witnessed.

 

Welcome your counterpoint!!

The one with the hotter mom.  

I have a different perspective than want to win or hate to lose. Every team I've coached from 11/12s rec or travel in baseball, softball or basketball I've asked one question. Do you want to win or do you have the passion, will and commitment to do what it takes all the time to win? I know kids who hated to lose and didn't understand they didn't do what it takes to win.

Winners prepare to win. Most everyone hates to lose and loves to win, but they're not all doing everything they can to prepare to win. You can hate to lose so much it devastates you, get used to it or prepare to win.

 

Playing not to lose would be a conservative approach. Playing to win is an aggressive approach. I do understand why some hate losing more than the enjoyment they get out of winning.  

I agree with PG I've always heard you play to win

you don't play not to lose.

Somehow this question got turned upside down equating 'hate to lose' to 'playing not to lose.'

 

'Hate to lose' drives (many) hard to NEVER experience it...at all cost.

 

'Playing not to lose' is what UNC used to do with 4-corner offense in bball or pitchers nibbling around the plate and getting behind in the count and/or walking batters.  (Just 2 examples).

 

To me, they are not even close to being the same thing.  If that doesn't make sense to you, I guess they don't feel different to you...but they are a world of difference in feeling to me.

Agree mostly, but I do not think of the "hate to lose" player as being conservative or passive.  He's a guy who plays with a lot of emotion.  To a certain point, that's a good thing. He's the kind of guy who runs so hard on every batted ball that he's likely to reach 3rd that one time that an outfielder drops a routine fly ball.  In the field he's the guy who goes flat out for every ball, and runs through a wall if it gets in his way.  Playing catcher, he'll block anything and everything in the dirt, even when nobody's on base. But playing emotionally isn't a great approach for baseball. It clouds the hate-to-lose player's judgement.  He will miss the cut-off man, and he will throw to a base when he's got no chance for an out.  He'll   muscle up and try to hit a 5-run HR  when he's down 0-2 in the count and the game is on the line. I'd rather have the analytical guy up, the loves-to-win guy who knows exactly what the pitcher has thrown at 0-2 throughout the game, knows the umpire's strike zone, and knows how to adjust his swing with 2 strikes.

...or, he's the guy who will practice his a$$ off in the cage, condition himself to the nth degree, practice his turn at 2nd base over and over...and over again...and become the most highly skilled player on his team.  Thats what I think about when I think about guys who 'hate to lose.'

 

LOL!