My son (2021 SS/CF ) wants to do a showcase type event this Summer to get some numbers on paper. He's not a very big kid, but will measure well in other tools / skills.
For those with experience, how would you compare the following showcases:
Five Tool.......PBR.......Baseball Factory....... and Perfect Game?
Thanks in advance for sharing!
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If the objective is gathering metrics do the nearest, least expensive showcase available.
PBR went very well for us. Good value and the professional video/profile for reference has helped a lot. Little less expensive than most.
Agree with PBR, especially if you have a strong local PBR franchise (look at their social media/talk to others). PG will be very good as well, will be more money.
I see you are in Texas. The Complete Showcase does a nice job for getting metrics and you get to talk to a lot of coaches and get written evaluations. Price is good as well. Son did this twice and enjoyed it. PBR is also making inroads in Texas and does a nice job. Baseball Factory is often cost effective but you have to call to get metrics and hard sell when you call for info to go to other events in my experience.
http://www.collegebaseballtryo....html?sport=baseball
all great info - thanks!
Do they all use laser timing for the 60?
When you say "get some numbers on paper", do you mean make numbers publicly available? Or get them for your own reference? Just be aware that if you do PBR or PG and the numbers are not what you expected, for whatever reason (bad day, delays, etc.) they will be up on the internet for all to see, until you do another showcase. Agree spend as little money as possible, especially for the first one. In fact, if you can borrow a radar gun (for IF/OF velo), and time his 60 yourselves, you'll have an idea of whether the numbers will be worth publicizing.
anotherparent posted:When you say "get some numbers on paper", do you mean make numbers publicly available? Or get them for your own reference? Just be aware that if you do PBR or PG and the numbers are not what you expected, for whatever reason (bad day, delays, etc.) they will be up on the internet for all to see, until you do another showcase. Agree spend as little money as possible, especially for the first one. In fact, if you can borrow a radar gun (for IF/OF velo), and time his 60 yourselves, you'll have an idea of whether the numbers will be worth publicizing.
He wants to post some numbers to get more attention from Colleges. He plays at a small enrollment high school with less exposure. His Summer team should be pretty salty - so that helps.
Baseball factory is the cheapest to get in the gate. I notice they post numbers...is that only if you pay them extra? From what I gather here so far PG and PBR post results no matter what...and Baseball Factory only if you pay extra?
Anyone heard of Five Tool or V Tool?
Thanks!
To do or not to do??? Son has the opportunity and invite to do a D1 showcase in July- is he showcase ready? No not yet. But, for $240 he can get in front of some coaches to schools he has interest in and they will do evaluations plus Rapsodo Profile so he can see where his pitches are- speed, trajectory as well as hitting- spread chart, velocities etc. I'm thinking this might be worth the cost for that kind of feedback.
Thoughts?
IMO, it's always good to get some baseline stats to know where you are and where to build from. Then, back to work!
The urge to pay money to do these showcases is overwhelming. But, if his numbers won't stand out, why do it? You will be paying to support the ones that the coaches are really looking at. You can time velos yourself, and you should be able to ask your knoweldgeable summer coaches (as per another thread) the other questions.
What no-one (high-school, travel coaches) ever explained to us is that there is no point getting in front of coaches - showcases, tournaments, camps - if you don't already have what they want. Coaches can't really predict that you will later get what they want. They will pay attention when you have it (or possibly when you are tall enough or close enough that they think you might get it) - but there are more than enough kids who do have what they want.
In Texas, I would do PBR for sure. Toby Bicknell is very good and he is well connected. I think PG is great as well, but more expensive.
meads posted:To do or not to do??? Son has the opportunity and invite to do a D1 showcase in July- is he showcase ready? No not yet. But, for $240 he can get in front of some coaches to schools he has interest in and they will do evaluations plus Rapsodo Profile so he can see where his pitches are- speed, trajectory as well as hitting- spread chart, velocities etc. I'm thinking this might be worth the cost for that kind of feedback.
Thoughts?
If he's not ready, you don't want him in front of schools he wants to attend, IMO.
PBR. Hands down the best choice, if I have to choose one.
PBR is made up of franchises. While very good, they lack consistency at the national level--because you'll find they all run showcases a bit differently with different people running the show. So to answer whether they use a laser-timer--don't know but not likely--our local (state) PBR does NOT. Of course PBR Future Games is a bit different--that's a national-level showcase and you DON'T want to miss that if ever invited.
But if you are interested in getting numbers posted locally or regionally, PBR may be the way to go, especially at the state level.
If you want to be measured at the national level, PG is the way to go as ALL showcases are run the same by mostly the same staff who have been doing it for years. Yes, expensive, but if your son is ready to show some noticeable numbers there is probably no better exposure. And yes, all 60's (and 10-yard split) are laser-timed. And yes, you will play live baseball games. So in my opinion, if you want true, normalized measurements across all states (and other countries as well as U.S. Territories), go to PG.
BF is standardized on at the national level as well but in my opinion, nobody really sees the results. You can't dive into the data like you can with PG or PBR. And their arm strength measurement are run-and-guns into a net--not as accurate a measure for an OF throwing to third and home. An OF in a PG or PBR showcase doesn't want to embarrass himself so he actually has to put some arc onto his throw in order to make it look like he has carry and accuracy. No such measure at BF. A catcher throwing to 2nd while at the same time going for a decent pop time and showing accuracy on his throws to the bag is a very different velocity (much lower) compared to the velocity into a net three feet in front of him.
baseballhs posted:meads posted:To do or not to do??? Son has the opportunity and invite to do a D1 showcase in July- is he showcase ready? No not yet. But, for $240 he can get in front of some coaches to schools he has interest in and they will do evaluations plus Rapsodo Profile so he can see where his pitches are- speed, trajectory as well as hitting- spread chart, velocities etc. I'm thinking this might be worth the cost for that kind of feedback.
Thoughts?
If he's not ready, you don't want him in front of schools he wants to attend, IMO.
My son and I discussed and I told him that if he isn't ready, it could potentially hurt him so we will not do this showcase, he is however doing a camp at one of the colleges he is interested in (mid June). He did a camp with them in the winter and (he didn't like it) but he is changing his mind and thinks this may be the school of choice down the road. So we will do a 2nd look and hopefully they will remember/ see improvement.
He did his first Summer ball tournament this weekend, he pitched 4 innings faced 19 batters, 2 K, 2BB, 3 Hits, 1 ER- sometimes its an umpire's game. My son was painting the corners nicely (have video) and the ump was calling them balls. Oh well, he was doing the same for the other team as well. Either way, when my son was taken out and a new pitcher entered the other team scored 7 
so we lost that game and end of tournament for us. He also was selected to do a HR derby. It was ran poorly. 10 hitters, 5 pitches each, no one hit it over the fence which was 300', my son and 2 others hit to about the 280-285'. But they didn't do a hit off to see he would hit the furthest. End of derby. 
anotherparent posted:The urge to pay money to do these showcases is overwhelming. But, if his numbers won't stand out, why do it? You will be paying to support the ones that the coaches are really looking at. You can time velos yourself, and you should be able to ask your knoweldgeable summer coaches (as per another thread) the other questions.
What no-one (high-school, travel coaches) ever explained to us is that there is no point getting in front of coaches - showcases, tournaments, camps - if you don't already have what they want. Coaches can't really predict that you will later get what they want. They will pay attention when you have it (or possibly when you are tall enough or close enough that they think you might get it) - but there are more than enough kids who do have what they want.
Couldn't have said it better. It is one thing to want to go to one camp to see how he stacks up to other talent. That makes sense and has purpose - is he at the level the other kids looking to get recruited are at? What most parents don't realize is that ordering a pocket radar for 100 bucks is probably a much better place to start than a $700 showcase.
A bunch of friends and former teammates of my son are at the PG National, so I checked out the results this morning. And some of them had done a PBR showcase last week (PBR held its "ProCases" in SoCal and NorCal on the 8th and 9th). So two showcases a week apart. I noticed something and dug a little deeper and looked at the California kids who did both. Here's what I found regarding recorded 60 times:
| PBR Time | PG Time | |
| Player 1 | 7.44 | 7.35 |
| Player 2 | 6.95 | 6.70 |
| Player 3 | 7.00 | 6.86 |
| Player 4 | 7.17 | 7.06 |
| Player 5 | 6.72 | 6.41 |
| Player 6 | 7.03 | 7.00 |
| Player 7 | 7.24 | 7.00 |
| Player 8 | 6.73 | 6.48 |
| Player 9 | 7.21 | 6.99 |
| Player 10 | 6.85 | 6.57 |
| Player 11 | 7.53 | 7.13 |
| Player 12 | 7.20 | 6.83 |
| Player 13 | 6.87 | 6.60 |
| Player 14 | 7.84 | 7.58 |
| Player 15 | 7.59 | 7.45 |
| Average | 7.16 | 6.93 |
Every single kid posted a better time at PG. I don't know how each company runs it, but my takeaway is if you want to post a good time, then PG is the way to go!!
2019Dad posted:A bunch of friends and former teammates of my son are at the PG National, so I checked out the results this morning. And some of them had done a PBR showcase last week (PBR held its "ProCases" in SoCal and NorCal on the 8th and 9th). So two showcases a week apart. I noticed something and dug a little deeper and looked at the California kids who did both. Here's what I found regarding recorded 60 times:
PBR Time PG Time Player 1 7.44 7.35 Player 2 6.95 6.70 Player 3 7.00 6.86 Player 4 7.17 7.06 Player 5 6.72 6.41 Player 6 7.03 7.00 Player 7 7.24 7.00 Player 8 6.73 6.48 Player 9 7.21 6.99 Player 10 6.85 6.57 Player 11 7.53 7.13 Player 12 7.20 6.83 Player 13 6.87 6.60 Player 14 7.84 7.58 Player 15 7.59 7.45 Average 7.16 6.93
Every single kid posted a better time at PG. I don't know how each company runs it, but my takeaway is if you want to post a good time, then PG is the way to go!!
Interesting. At least, the variances are fairly consistent. I would guess that either surfaces or timing mechanisms would be something to look at. A good friend is there doing player interviews for PG and he mentioned yesterday that he has never seen a nicer artificial surface. I'm not positive they are running the 60's at Chase though.
They are running them at Chase. Also not sure if you run solo at PBR (can’t remember) but they are running against others. At The National they are inside, no heat.
The ideal scenario is to be electronically timed on turf running against someone the same speed or slightly faster.
It doesn’t matter if times vary. You’re going to use your best time promoting yourself. Coaches see the players run relative to others and/or they have their own stop watch.
RJM posted:The ideal scenario is to be electronically timed on turf running against someone the same speed or slightly faster.
It doesn’t matter if times vary. You’re going to use your best time promoting yourself. Coaches see the players run relative to others and/or they have their own stop watch.
I don't think this is a question of times varying -- if it were just variation, you would expect that some would have posted a lower time at PG, and some a higher time. That didn't happen. Whether because of turf, running against another player, more accurate timing, whatever, it looks like PG is producing better results.
Example: Player 12 is a middle infielder. He's already committed. But in general, if you're an uncommitted middle infielder and you can do one showcase, the one where you can post a 6.83 is going to be better promotion than the one where you can post a 7.20.
Player 11 is a corners guy. He's already committed too. But if I'm an uncommitted corners guy and I get to choose the showcase, I'd want the one where I post a 7.13, not a 7.53.
lukeduke posted:Anyone heard of Five Tool or V Tool?anotherparent posted:When you say "get some numbers on paper", do you mean make numbers publicly available? Or get them for your own reference? Just be aware that if you do PBR or PG and the numbers are not what you expected, for whatever reason (bad day, delays, etc.) they will be up on the internet for all to see, until you do another showcase. Agree spend as little money as possible, especially for the first one. In fact, if you can borrow a radar gun (for IF/OF velo), and time his 60 yourselves, you'll have an idea of whether the numbers will be worth publicizing.
Our son has been in a number of Five Tool tournaments lately. One of their best features is how they manage social media. If your son makes a good play, the video gets tweeted. If he makes several good plays, he can get PoG (Player of the Game), which also gets tweeted with a picture. If he has an amazing play, he can get a #DudeAlert on twitter with video. These folks work very hard to promote the players, and they seem to video everything.
backyardonfire posted:Anyone heard of Five Tool or V Tool?
Our son has been in a number of Five Tool tournaments lately. One of their best features is how they manage social media. If your son makes a good play, the video gets tweeted. If he makes several good plays, he can get PoG (Player of the Game), which also gets tweeted with a picture. If he has an amazing play, he can get a #DudeAlert on twitter with video. These folks work very hard to promote the players, and they seem to video everything.
Spot on - Five Tool's social media / twitter coverage of their Tournaments is awesome. My son and his team-mates love pinning their big hits or plays on their twitter feeds.
I expect their showcases are just as good, but I don't know of anyone that's been. The Texas showcases they run are usually 4 hours South of us.
2019Dad posted:RJM posted:The ideal scenario is to be electronically timed on turf running against someone the same speed or slightly faster.
It doesn’t matter if times vary. You’re going to use your best time promoting yourself. Coaches see the players run relative to others and/or they have their own stop watch.
I don't think this is a question of times varying -- if it were just variation, you would expect that some would have posted a lower time at PG, and some a higher time. That didn't happen. Whether because of turf, running against another player, more accurate timing, whatever, it looks like PG is producing better results.
Example: Player 12 is a middle infielder. He's already committed. But in general, if you're an uncommitted middle infielder and you can do one showcase, the one where you can post a 6.83 is going to be better promotion than the one where you can post a 7.20.
Player 11 is a corners guy. He's already committed too. But if I'm an uncommitted corners guy and I get to choose the showcase, I'd want the one where I post a 7.13, not a 7.53.
If a player is already committed, what would be reasons to still do showcase events?
Geezmom posted:2019Dad posted:RJM posted:The ideal scenario is to be electronically timed on turf running against someone the same speed or slightly faster.
It doesn’t matter if times vary. You’re going to use your best time promoting yourself. Coaches see the players run relative to others and/or they have their own stop watch.
I don't think this is a question of times varying -- if it were just variation, you would expect that some would have posted a lower time at PG, and some a higher time. That didn't happen. Whether because of turf, running against another player, more accurate timing, whatever, it looks like PG is producing better results.
Example: Player 12 is a middle infielder. He's already committed. But in general, if you're an uncommitted middle infielder and you can do one showcase, the one where you can post a 6.83 is going to be better promotion than the one where you can post a 7.20.
Player 11 is a corners guy. He's already committed too. But if I'm an uncommitted corners guy and I get to choose the showcase, I'd want the one where I post a 7.13, not a 7.53.
If a player is already committed, what would be reasons to still do showcase events?
Some reasons... obligation to travel/showcase team, awareness that sometimes commitments becomes undone, vehicle to continue playing high level baseball, continued exposure for next level (pro scouts).
The PG National is more about being drafted.
2019Dad posted:A bunch of friends and former teammates of my son are at the PG National, so I checked out the results this morning. And some of them had done a PBR showcase last week (PBR held its "ProCases" in SoCal and NorCal on the 8th and 9th). So two showcases a week apart. I noticed something and dug a little deeper and looked at the California kids who did both. Here's what I found regarding recorded 60 times:
PBR Time PG Time Player 1 7.44 7.35 Player 2 6.95 6.70 Player 3 7.00 6.86 Player 4 7.17 7.06 Player 5 6.72 6.41 Player 6 7.03 7.00 Player 7 7.24 7.00 Player 8 6.73 6.48 Player 9 7.21 6.99 Player 10 6.85 6.57 Player 11 7.53 7.13 Player 12 7.20 6.83 Player 13 6.87 6.60 Player 14 7.84 7.58 Player 15 7.59 7.45 Average 7.16 6.93
Every single kid posted a better time at PG. I don't know how each company runs it, but my takeaway is if you want to post a good time, then PG is the way to go!!
If it's one thing I've learned about 60's in the recruiting process, there are MANY variables- human, conditions, weather, surfaces, etc. Speed is my 2015's top tool. Whenever he'd give me a 60 time for an event, inevitably my first question was, "where did your time rank you for this event? " For those whose 60 time is key to their college recruitment (MI or CF), the best advice I could give is the more events, the better. Once my son hit a low time December of his junior year- he didn't feel a need to continue "showcasing." His attention then turned to specific camps of schools where there was mutual interest.
Ripken Fan posted:2019Dad posted:A bunch of friends and former teammates of my son are at the PG National, so I checked out the results this morning. And some of them had done a PBR showcase last week (PBR held its "ProCases" in SoCal and NorCal on the 8th and 9th). So two showcases a week apart. I noticed something and dug a little deeper and looked at the California kids who did both. Here's what I found regarding recorded 60 times:
PBR Time PG Time Player 1 7.44 7.35 Player 2 6.95 6.70 Player 3 7.00 6.86 Player 4 7.17 7.06 Player 5 6.72 6.41 Player 6 7.03 7.00 Player 7 7.24 7.00 Player 8 6.73 6.48 Player 9 7.21 6.99 Player 10 6.85 6.57 Player 11 7.53 7.13 Player 12 7.20 6.83 Player 13 6.87 6.60 Player 14 7.84 7.58 Player 15 7.59 7.45 Average 7.16 6.93
Every single kid posted a better time at PG. I don't know how each company runs it, but my takeaway is if you want to post a good time, then PG is the way to go!!
If it's one thing I've learned about 60's in the recruiting process, there are MANY variables- human, conditions, weather, surfaces, etc. Speed is my 2015's top tool. Whenever he'd give me a 60 time for an event, inevitably my first question was, "where did your time rank you for this event? " For those whose 60 time is key to their college recruitment (MI or CF), the best advice I could give is the more events, the better. Once my son hit a low time December of his junior year- he didn't feel a need to continue "showcasing." His attention then turned to specific camps of schools where there was mutual interest.
My 2021 is a CF/2B and speed is his top tool. He currently runs a 6.7 60. My understanding is that having a "sub7" time stands out recruiting wise and that there is a big difference between say, a 7.2 and a 6.83 (for player 12 for example). Am I right about this?
My son has never worked on his speed tool. He just comes by it naturally. His hitting instructor has told him he should work to get it down to a 6.5, which suggests even 2 tenths of a point can make a difference.
What level of college ball is he a prospect? 6.7 is good speed for D1. But it’s not great speed. 6.5 is great speed. 6.3 is blazing (for baseball). Speed draws attention. But no one in the history of the game has stolen first.
LuckyCat posted:Ripken Fan posted:2019Dad posted:A bunch of friends and former teammates of my son are at the PG National, so I checked out the results this morning. And some of them had done a PBR showcase last week (PBR held its "ProCases" in SoCal and NorCal on the 8th and 9th). So two showcases a week apart. I noticed something and dug a little deeper and looked at the California kids who did both. Here's what I found regarding recorded 60 times:
PBR Time PG Time Player 1 7.44 7.35 Player 2 6.95 6.70 Player 3 7.00 6.86 Player 4 7.17 7.06 Player 5 6.72 6.41 Player 6 7.03 7.00 Player 7 7.24 7.00 Player 8 6.73 6.48 Player 9 7.21 6.99 Player 10 6.85 6.57 Player 11 7.53 7.13 Player 12 7.20 6.83 Player 13 6.87 6.60 Player 14 7.84 7.58 Player 15 7.59 7.45 Average 7.16 6.93
Every single kid posted a better time at PG. I don't know how each company runs it, but my takeaway is if you want to post a good time, then PG is the way to go!!
If it's one thing I've learned about 60's in the recruiting process, there are MANY variables- human, conditions, weather, surfaces, etc. Speed is my 2015's top tool. Whenever he'd give me a 60 time for an event, inevitably my first question was, "where did your time rank you for this event? " For those whose 60 time is key to their college recruitment (MI or CF), the best advice I could give is the more events, the better. Once my son hit a low time December of his junior year- he didn't feel a need to continue "showcasing." His attention then turned to specific camps of schools where there was mutual interest.
My 2021 is a CF/2B and speed is his top tool. He currently runs a 6.7 60. My understanding is that having a "sub7" time stands out recruiting wise and that there is a big difference between say, a 7.2 and a 6.83 (for player 12 for example). Am I right about this?
My son has never worked on his speed tool. He just comes by it naturally. His hitting instructor has told him he should work to get it down to a 6.5, which suggests even 2 tenths of a point can make a difference.
With work,natural growth and proper conditioning, 60 time usually drops. CF usually are recruited with the fastest 60 times among recruits (followed by MI). My son benefited with running indoor track during the winter HS season where he learned form and conditioning that in the end made him a better baseball and soccer player. Each "tenth" of a second your son can drop will help his recruitment- given the positions he plays and that speed is best tool. Good to keep hitting too (and bunting) and don't let up on your defensive reps as well.
Players can train specifically for the 60. My son had baseball specific training for it. In the field reaction/recognition time and quickness is just as important as speed. The fast player needs all three.
RJM posted:What level of college ball is he a prospect? 6.7 is good speed for D1. But it’s not great speed. 6.5 is great speed. 6.3 is blazing (for baseball). Speed draws attention. But no one in the history of the game has stolen first.
He was evaluated at his winter workout facility before the high school season, and they said mid to low D1 if he continues progressing as expected. But we're thinking low D1 or D3, and he is focused on HA schools. He is a smart baserunner and good contact hitter/bunter, so he typically hits first or second.
He thinks he can run 6.5, especially with a laser. His times have all been timed with a stopwatch by his coaches. I don't think there are more than one or two 2021 kids in our area running a 6.5 or under, maybe a dozen or so running a 6.7 or under (that we know of), including our son. Of course, they all have another year to get faster.
We are trying to figure out now what sort of training he should look for to shave a couple of tenths off his time.
look for top schools, look for one that isn't spread on 4 fields, look for ones that have coaches PRESENT
