WHY ??

quote:

Too many people are in such a hurry about the baseball process that they forget to enjoy the journey, and only focus on a desired result.

This is so true and it makes me sad. There is so much to be gained in each step of the "process" if not about baseball- about life its self. High school ball has that school spirit, team and town pride factor and first lesson in balancing school and studies. It's about building a team with a group of kids for 3-4 years. Travel ball is about the travelling, meeting new players and coaches. Showing and comparing ones skills. DON'T RUSH IT!!! It all goes by so fast. As my son enters what may be his last college season, I wish I could have it all again in slow motion. There's plenty of time to do it all, with out skipping anything.

tigercub,

My comments have nothing to do with humility and being too good for a team. I was giving an example of what may create fond memories for a player that you brought up. You seem to think that fond memories can only be attained by playing for your high school team. I don't buy it.

I live in a town of about 45,000 people. One high school. About 100 people go to the baseball games. Mostly parents, some kids. The football team won the state championship 3 years ago and lost in the semi final this year. The only time I heard any talk about these games were from parents who were at the games. Football games have about 500-1000 per game. So I don't buy that hs sports are about the community either. They are about the kids who play and their families and the football or baseball families. High school sports are important, no doubt. But, again, important to those who play and the school.

I am not a high school sports basher. I just think we blow things out of proportion sometimes.


I also don't understand this notion that travel teams are not teams, but a collection of talent with mercenaries coming in all the time. Isn't a high school team a collection of talent. Don't high school teams have tryouts every year.

My son's travel team will be playing their 4th season together this summer. About half of the original players from the first team will be playing this summer. Every season they have tryouts. If a better player is discovered he is added to the team and an existing player might get demoted. High school teams have tryouts every year. If a very good freshman or sophomore is discovered, a senior or junior from last years team might get demoted. Where's the difference.

Son's team is a team that plays together, has leaders, and cares very much about winning or losing. They are not a bunch of individual players looking out for themselves. If one was discovered he would not be welcome by his teammates. This is team that is ranked in the top 15 in its age by PG. So good players on good teams can be good teammates. The idea that only HS teams play as a team and teach life skills is ridiculous IMO.

High school baseball should be played by every kid that can make a team. These same players should be allowed to play with whomever they want in the summer. But as usual with youth sports, their always seems to be some adults who mess things up. In this case the coaches, or either side, not allowing kids and their families to make their own choices.

Did I miss something... aside from what was mentioned in another thread about what might happen in California HS baseball I don't know of too many cases where players are bypassing HS to play on travel teams. Is this really an issue?

As for community... I’m not sure our community even knows when it's baseball season. The only people that attend games are family members or a few friends/girlfriends of the players. I wish we lived in an area where the community was so involved and had such pride about their HS baseball teams.

In our limited experience HS and travel were two separate seasons and one didn't affect the other. HS was about playing with his friends and having a good time in a quest to win a championship. Travel was also about playing with his friends and hoping to win championships. The difference was that travel also served as a vehicle to be recruited by colleges. HS (other than pro attention for a very select few) … not so much.

I would never advise anyone to do one over the other, enjoy both as long as you can. It might be over all too soon.

Jersey,

Would they still be friends if they were not ranked "15th by PG".? As if anyone has any idea what travel team is better than another.

This goes to my point. A lot of the posters for travel here can't help themselves but put some kind of obscure stat out there while speaking of their team.

I believe that it is necessary for travel baseball to exist( both my sons play or played travel ball) as most HS coaches do not have the time or means to run a successful program after school is out. But travel teams are formed to win and if they don't they replace the players. You said it yourself that only about half of these players are still playing together.HS coaches can not find replacement players for his team shortcomings from outside his own school. So there is a special camaraderie that develops among HS athletes when they know they only have their teammates for that year( and sometimes for all the years they play in HS) to depend on. You can not get this with travel ball. May we can agree that there are many ways to develop friendships but I stand by my point that HS sports is definitely more special than travel.

No right or wrong answer on this but it is bad enough that college sports has sold it self to big name sponsors all for that sake of winning that it seems to be trickling down to the HS level now.

What happens if this gentleman gets Nike or Wilson to sponsor his league and the players do not have to pay? or maybe a pro team in the area starts their own HS league? Would that be a good reason to leave HS ball?

JMO

quote:

Originally posted by tigercub:
Jersey,

Would they still be friends if they were not ranked "15th by PG".? As if anyone has any idea what travel team is better than another.

This goes to my point. A lot of the posters for travel here can't help themselves but put some kind of obscure stat out there while speaking of their team.

I believe that it is necessary for travel baseball to exist( both my sons play or played travel ball) as most HS coaches do not have the time or means to run a successful program after school is out. But travel teams are formed to win and if they don't they replace the players. You said it yourself that only about half of these players are still playing together.HS coaches can not find replacement players for his team shortcomings from outside his own school. So there is a special camaraderie that develops among HS athletes when they know they only have their teammates for that year( and sometimes for all the years they play in HS) to depend on. You can not get this with travel ball. May we can agree that there are many ways to develop friendships but I stand by my point that HS sports is definitely more special than travel.

No right or wrong answer on this but it is bad enough that college sports has sold it self to big name sponsors all for that sake of winning that it seems to be trickling down to the HS level now.

What happens if this gentleman gets Nike or Wilson to sponsor his league and the players do not have to pay? or maybe a pro team in the area starts their own HS league? Would that be a good reason to leave HS ball?

JMO

Tigercub,

Not sure why you addressed your reply to me, the things you referenced were posted by another member.

However since you did reference me I will respond as well... I don't understand the HS is "more special" that travel comment. Because of friendships formed? Some of my son's best friends are guys he played travel with and most of them were spread out over the state. They spent more collective time together during the summer/fall than he spent with his school friends throughout the year. As for camaraderie, going through the summer when all the boys were trying to earn a chance at the next level created an incredible camaraderie. When one got an offer, they all felt like they had achieved something together.

Again I ask, why does one have to be better than the other?

My apologies if I mistakenly brought up a quote that wasn't yours.

As I said, I think we can agree you can form friendships both in HS and travel. I will give the nod to HS though as being a little more special

JMO

Apologies aren't allowed Actually, none needed

As for community... I’m not sure our community even knows when it's baseball season. The only people that attend games are family members or a few friends/girlfriends of the players. I wish we lived in an area where the community was so involved and had such pride about their HS baseball teams.

In our limited experience HS and travel were two separate seasons and one didn't affect the other. HS was about playing with his friends and having a good time in a quest to win a championship. Travel was also about playing with his friends and hoping to win championships. The difference was that travel also served as a vehicle to be recruited by colleges. HS (other than pro attention for a very select few) … not so much.

quote:

I agree Jersey Dad!!!

My son (15) has said since age 9 that he really likes playing on the local teams with his friends from school and it is "overall" more fun than his select teams because he and all his buddies can all talk about the games during the week. He likes the intensity and competition of the select teams more and he feels better when they win because it seems like they have accomplished more having success at that level.

Then he attended his first PG event at the underclassman tourney this past summer in Ft Myers. When we returned home, he told me that he just realized how boring and plain everyday life and high school baseball is. He said that was the greatest fun and the most exciting thing he had ever done. Flying on planes, staying in hotels with his teammates, sleeping until four hours before games and going to workout and hit in preparation for the upcoming games and playing on the nicest fields against the best players he's ever seen.

I laughed and told him, now you know what it must be like to be in the MLB. He looked at me and said "if it's like that, I want to do everything I can to make it". "That would be awesome!"

Thanks to Jerry and all the Perfect Game staff for that experience and planting that seed!! His grades have gone from ranging in the low A's and low B's, to straight A's and he's pushing to get high A's in all his classes and has even advanced into some AP courses. He has never been so driven and he has become so focused on every detail of his life in order to give himself a chance.

All that "community" BS is just us parents talking. That "community" won't give a big rats behind if our kid works in a car wash or lives under a bridge once he's done satisfying their sense of "community". Every kid is different and they all may not want the same thing. It's their time now and the window that they look through to see dreams come true is still open. As parents, our time to play a game for a living is over and our window is shut and locked up forever.

If playing high school ball gives them joy, then that's what they should do. If they want more, they should go for it and let nothing stand in their way! If my son thought that he had to choose between HS ball and select, it would come down to which ever one gave him the best chance to "fly on planes and sleep late". :-)

Also, baseball is a team game in name only. It is actually a game made up of individual "one on one" performances. There are no "zone coverages" or "zone defenses" or "full court presses". There are no "double teams" or "pick and rolls". Curtis Wilkerson of the Texas Rangers explained it to me best when he said "baseball is like tending a garden, you are responsible for your own little garden. If you take care of your garden, and everyone else takes care of their garden, then the whole team gets to eat. If any one of you starts worrying about the other guys' gardens, weeds will spring up in your garden and the worms will get your crops. You can't help the other eight guys with their garden because then you're not tending to yours and you'll be the one that ends up starving".

TR Hit's question posed was, to paraphrase, why wouldn't a kid play travel ball and also want to play for his h.s. team? That's a great question, but this thread has evolved into a Ben Franklin analysis sheet discussing the pros and cons of h.s. versus travel baseball. Again.. why not BOTH?

There can be little doubt that the travel baseball Bum, Jr. experienced on his select team far exceeded h.s. baseball in play quality, yet all the awards, press releases and accolades he received were associated with h.s. baseball! Why not do BOTH?

If any parent, or kid, is fool enough to think that he would enhance his college scholarship chances by foregoing h.s. baseball and play travel baseball year-round, I have news: College coaches select players with Present Ability and this is just as apparent to a college coach whether he is playing the Super Select Swarm or East Town Catholic Prep.

Concluding that "community" is B.S. with relationship to baseball is a less than profound argument, considering that it is the community that creates these young men that play this fine game; community that built the fields and schools and facilities which enable these young men to succeed; and community that fills the seats on game day at every high school, college, or major league stadium. Without community, baseball becomes not a sport but a playful hobby.

Why?

Why not?

quote:

Originally posted by 4genball:
All that "community" BS is just us parents talking. That "community" won't give a big rats behind if our kid works in a car wash or lives under a bridge once he's done satisfying their sense of "community".

Sounds like you need to find a friendlier community.

Travel ball? Pay your money and travel. Now playing is another thing. I recently talked to a father who was moaning and groaning that he paid x amount to have his son join a team they traveled to a tournament parents went motel meals etc etc he got 2 at bats and 3 innings in a 5 game tournament.

tigercub,
That was me who put that obscure stat about "15th by PG". I actually thought long about putting that in their because I thought it might be taken exactly the way you took it. It wasn't meant to brag but to make but to differentiate between a daddy ball team and a travel program.

I hate and very rarely talk about my son or his team. It seems when a person does, the rest of the message is lost.

Both times you commented on my posts your comments were about a good player or team. Totally ignoring my main point. Obviously you have an issue with about these teams and players. I won't discuss something with some one so prejudice about a topic.

I'm out.

Will, I've been to those tournaments and its not fun to be around those parents, you feel for them but what can you do?

I did not consider it bragging about your ranking. I just believe it doesn't have any meaning.

Almost every team out there was started by some father. Thank goodness for that because without these dedicated men our sons may not have the options they have today.

Unless you can tell me that there is absolutely no parental involvement in your son's travel team( team manager,stat man, general manager) then your team will have a piece of the daddy ball pie.

Is a Baseball Player only definable by who he plays for and when?
You don't have to play either HS or Travel to be a baseball player.
Your a baseball player when you step on the field to play.
How good of a baseball player is to be determined.

Or MLB players the only one's that are true baseball player's?
Or have they taken advantage of the system and been rewarded for there effort's.

You have to have somebody that believe's in your talent in your corner.
Parent's, Coaches, Instructors, Recruitor's, Scout's.

Yourselve included. You as a player have to believe you can succeed.
And don't listen to the Naysayer's.

Not all HS's or travel teams are created equally.
Same goes for any baseball event that claims to be a World Series.

Really the only advice I could give, is to take advantage of the opportuinities that present themselves.
Play the game at the highest level you can find in your area.

Advice we recieved early on was to remember you never know who's watching, and that your out there interviewing for a job.

Most important have fun

EH

quote:

my son was instructing at the hitting station and the kids are all wide-eyed hanging on to every word he was telling them

My son gave his first autograph last year signing a little kid's glove at a clinic. My son said, "Wouldn't it be funny if it's worth something someday."

[Quote]Why should those with more talent (obviously he was) have special priveledges? Wasn't his team and the coach depending upon him for their success. Sometimes in life we have to make choices, and think about how our choice may affect others. If a coach lets one miss games because of other team obligations, you have to let others, then you have players coming and going and doesn't that become difficult to run your team?[Quote]

When the uniform says USA on the front, it's not just another team. A coach has to be a moron to deny the opportunity for the priviledge. We've recently had two TEAM USA athletes at our high school. They were never denied the priviledge. Besides, it's good publicity for the sports involved.

quote:

Originally posted by zombywoof:
And what's better than reading about you kid in the newspaper the next day after a vasity game? Travel teams don't get that kind of coverage. All these select travel teams are about is developing talent with a bunch of players lumped together on a team while high school, there's still the team dynamic to the sport. It's that way will all high school sports. That's what makes legion good is that the teams are school based so there's still that connection to the town you live in.

My son said the one thing he misses about travel is playing a season for a championship. In tournament ball, there's another championship next week. Now, with high school ball, the opportunity returns.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Travel ball? Pay your money and travel. Now playing is another thing. I recently talked to a father who was moaning and groaning that he paid x amount to have his son join a team they traveled to a tournament parents went motel meals etc etc he got 2 at bats and 3 innings in a 5 game tournament.

Before ripping on travel ball, you have to look at this situation and see the player and the parents didn't evaluate his opportunity carefully.

quote:

Originally posted by tigercub:
I did not consider it bragging about your ranking. I just believe it doesn't have any meaning.

Unless you can tell me that there is absolutely no parental involvement in your son's travel team( team manager,stat man, general manager) then your team will have a piece of the daddy ball pie.

TC - I understand where you are coming from, to a point. I also agree, wholeheartedly that, daddy ball has a place in all our son's lives. I've lived it,BT-DT, loved every minute of it. But competitive youth BB has evolved. The end result, whether desired or accidental, it is what it is. Travel teams, showcases, rankings and all the drama that comes with it!

I know GED10's summerball organization does not have a corner on the market - in how they do business. But, I can say without a doubt that parents are only involved where fees and expenses come into the picture. There are ZERO parental influences on either one of the teams he may play for this summer. And, the outcome was the families are very close, there is no brown nose'n, politic'n back stabbin' BS like we tend to see in most our exposures during HS ball.

And, belive me, freshman GED10 starting and playing in every varsity HS game last year, he was not welcomed by many Jr/Sr players and/or parents.

Our 17U team is ranked 52nd by PG, the 18U team is ranked 20th. The 18U group is coached by Forrest Martin out of Oklahoma. These guys are legit.

I do not know the "formula" PG uses to arrive at their pre-season rankings, but I know they have meaning with large numbers of the BB community.

I'm not bragging, I'm just staing things as I understand them.

So to tie it all back together, GED10 knows his HS team can't compete with that. Plain and simple, so it does make you evaluate the pros vs. cons of HS ball.

GED10DaD
love catchers!

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Before ripping on travel ball, you have to look at this situation and see the player and the parents didn't evaluate his opportunity carefully.

Somebody took their money. what did they evaluate?

Will

With many travel teams the coaches either have tryouts or get players based on others recommendations

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Before ripping on travel ball, you have to look at this situation and see the player and the parents didn't evaluate his opportunity carefully.

Somebody took their money. what did they evaluate?

When a player makes a team he isn't guaranteed playing time. Making a team only guarantees the opportunity to earn playing time.

My son plays on a very competitive 16U team. Since the team selected fifteen players we've seen some quit. They must have looked around at the talent and decided playing time wasn't a lock. That can be a shock for a player whose never been there before.

quote:

Concluding that "community" is B.S. with relationship to baseball is a less than profound argument, considering that it is the community that creates these young men that play this fine game; community that built the fields and schools and facilities which enable these young men to succeed; and community that fills the seats on game day at every high school, college, or major league stadium. Without community, baseball becomes not a sport but a playful hobby.

I hate to disagree with you Bum but....it is God that creates these young men and gives them the ability to play this fine game....as far as the community, I guess we view it from a different perspective. I understand community as the town and the people that live in it and pay the taxes that build those fields and stadiums. The majority of the "community" if asked, would tell you that they would rather keep the tax money than build all that stuff for kids they don't have or don't know or care about. It is a very small percentage of the people that actually decide if, when and where the money is spent.

The community in which I live consists of approximately 30,000 people. There may be 75-100 at any given HS baseball game. As it was stated earlier in this thread, those are family, friends and other students. The non attendees could care less about those young men. The fields and stadiums are built for those young men and the many that came before and will follow. If an individual player does pass up high school baseball in order to play in some other league, it is no business one way or the other of the "community".

As this is my second time around, I know that if #2 son is ever in a situation with his high school or college baseball program that will have a negative impact on his self esteem, his development as a player, or his emotional or physical well being, there will a change made immediately, either in the program or in his participation.

I salute any parent or player that has the courage to say..."this is not what I signed up for" or "I refuse to put up with getting treated this way" just because the "community" thinks it's the right thing to do.

In the final analysis, it is about my son and each individual son of the other parents and nothing else. It is their dream and thier goal, and no one else's.

The coaches and the schools and the "communities" will always be there in one form or another but this time for these players is fleeting and is gone in an instant. Grab the opportunity with both hands and hold on tight. Keep all arms and legs in the vehicle at all times and full speed ahead.

I say "Let's see how far we can ride this sucker before the train stops or we're told to get off".