Why would any player old enough to have to use a BBCOR bat, carry higher drops for use in tourneys and practice with a drop 5? The only reason I can think of is to get that “artificial” help from a lighter bat. I can kinda see how many would want to use that “crutch” in a tournament, but why in practice?

Original Post

The bottom line is that anyone in any sport is probably going to use, in competition, the highest performing equipment allowed by the rules. I wouldn't expect a golfer to go into a tournament with a niblick, a mashie, and a spoon.  In a practice atmosphere there's really no justifiable use. As to any idea that a kid who can swing a -3 should do it all the time even when a bigger drop is allowed, I've never had a kid who had any trouble going back and forth between the two.

roothog66 posted:

The bottom line is that anyone in any sport is probably going to use, in competition, the highest performing equipment allowed by the rules. I wouldn't expect a golfer to go into a tournament with a niblick, a mashie, and a spoon.  In a practice atmosphere there's really no justifiable use. As to any idea that a kid who can swing a -3 should do it all the time even when a bigger drop is allowed, I've never had a kid who had any trouble going back and forth between the two.

 

I noted I could kinda understand it in tournaments. As for what golfers do, they do use mashies, niblicks, and spoons. Just because the name has changed doesn’t have anything to do with the equipment. A better analogy would have been not using hickory shafted clubs or gutta percha balls when modern shafts and balls are legal.

 

How closely do you monitor you players as to what equipment they use every time they play? If there’s no difference, why all the angst about bat size, weight, balance, and material makeup?

Another reason to use a -5 bat in practice on a team that plays under different rule sets is to earn your spot.  If you are a player that is fighting for a spot in the line up, than you better bring your best game to practice every day.  No reason to walk into the box during coach pitch BP with your BBCOR when you are allowed to use your -5 XL1.  

real green posted:

Another reason to use a -5 bat in practice on a team that plays under different rule sets is to earn your spot.  If you are a player that is fighting for a spot in the line up, than you better bring your best game to practice every day.  No reason to walk into the box during coach pitch BP with your BBCOR when you are allowed to use your -5 XL1.  

 

That’s a terrible indictment of coaches who you’re making out to be ignorant about what equipment their players use or who can’t figure into the evaluation that the performance is helped or hindered by the equipment. But forgetting all that, why not grab an old Titanium or rolled and shaved composite bat for BP to really look good?

CollegeParentNoMore posted:

If a player has to use a -5 to earn a spot on a team, the end of  his playing days is near.  You have to practice like you play and if the player wants to progress beyond HS he will never use a -5 in a game or practice.  Nothing like a little weight variation to mess up a swing. 

I've heard that argument plenty and, theoretically, it makes sense. However, in practice, I've never seen it make a difference. Any kid I had (don't have to deal with it anymore, though) who used -5 in summer ball and -3 in high school never showed any problems whatsoever moving between the two.

real green posted:

Another reason to use a -5 bat in practice on a team that plays under different rule sets is to earn your spot.  If you are a player that is fighting for a spot in the line up, than you better bring your best game to practice every day.  No reason to walk into the box during coach pitch BP with your BBCOR when you are allowed to use your -5 XL1.  

That's known as taking a knife to a gun fight.

CollegeParentNoMore posted:

If a player has to use a -5 to earn a spot on a team, the end of  his playing days is near.  

 

I completely agree.

 

You have to practice like you play and if the player wants to progress beyond HS he will never use a -5 in a game or practice.  Nothing like a little weight variation to mess up a swing. 

 

I happen to agree with that as well, but you and I must be purty iggerint if the other posters are right about it not making any difference.

Stats4Gnats posted:

real green posted:

Another reason to use a -5 bat in practice on a team that plays under different rule sets is to earn your spot.  If you are a player that is fighting for a spot in the line up, than you better bring your best game to practice every day.  No reason to walk into the box during coach pitch BP with your BBCOR when you are allowed to use your -5 XL1.  

 

That’s a terrible indictment of coaches who you’re making out to be ignorant about what equipment their players use or who can’t figure into the evaluation that the performance is helped or hindered by the equipment. But forgetting all that, why not grab an old Titanium or rolled and shaved composite bat for BP to really look good?

In Babe Ruth as late as last summer, my own son did, in fact, use an old titanium bat in games. It was completely legal under BR rules.

roothog66 posted:
CollegeParentNoMore posted:

If a player has to use a -5 to earn a spot on a team, the end of  his playing days is near.  You have to practice like you play and if the player wants to progress beyond HS he will never use a -5 in a game or practice.  Nothing like a little weight variation to mess up a swing. 

I've heard that argument plenty and, theoretically, it makes sense. However, in practice, I've never seen it make a difference. Any kid I had (don't have to deal with it anymore, though) who used -5 in summer ball and -3 in high school never showed any problems whatsoever moving between the two.

Correct.  In reality the XL1 -5 swings very similar to BBCOR

 

 

I happen to agree with that as well, but you and I must be purty iggerint if the other posters are right about it not making any difference.

It's not a question of ignorance.  Like I said, it makes sense in theory. Can you, however, truthfully point to a kid that raked with a -5, but couldn't handle a -3? I guess it's probable that such an animal exists, but I have never seen one. Which is to say, I also believe the -2 drop is rarely, if ever, going to make the difference between being able to hit well or not. If a kid can't hit with a -3, he likely can't hit with a -5 either. But, I'll still take the extra 40 feet on my line drives given the legal choice.

Professional swing coaches recommend practicing with a bat with the same weight and size and swing characteristics as your game bat.  If you want to attempt to increase your bat speed and power, that is a different story.  Light bat, game bat, heavy bat, and then game bat again.  This practice can improve bat speed, timing, and power.  Always finish with game bat so that you don't mess up your game timing.  Tried and proven over time (if  your serious about training your swing).

CollegeParentNoMore posted:

If a player has to use a -5 to earn a spot on a team, the end of  his playing days is near.  You have to practice like you play and if the player wants to progress beyond HS he will never use a -5 in a game or practice.  Nothing like a little weight variation to mess up a swing. 

Again we are talking about 13-14's and below.  At least I am.  That is the only age group here where you can go back and forth.  Last year I would say half of my sons games were bbcor and half were not.  Very little weight variation of any to mess with a swing between his bbcor and -5.  Regarding playing next year, there is A LOT of discrepency in phyisical development at this age group.  It seems by 16U players have balanced out.  Meaning all are through puberty.   

As Real Green mentions above, we need to be clear that this is a situation that really only affects 13-14 year olds and occasionally 15 year olds. For the most part, by 14 or 15 you don't really get a choice. Taking into consideration swing training in kids who are physically changing on a daily basis is probably a minor consideration at best.

Stats4Gnats posted:

real green posted:

Another reason to use a -5 bat in practice on a team that plays under different rule sets is to earn your spot.  If you are a player that is fighting for a spot in the line up, than you better bring your best game to practice every day.  No reason to walk into the box during coach pitch BP with your BBCOR when you are allowed to use your -5 XL1.  

 

That’s a terrible indictment of coaches who you’re making out to be ignorant about what equipment their players use or who can’t figure into the evaluation that the performance is helped or hindered by the equipment. But forgetting all that, why not grab an old Titanium or rolled and shaved composite bat for BP to really look good?

You don't give enough credit to the eye test.  Also as Roothog points out, it is not like a kid can't swing BBCOR.  I kid driving it out of the big boy field with his legal -5 bat during BP will make a bigger impression than a kid hitting gappers with his BBCOR.  Regarding other bat options, if they were legal in the league or games the team played, I would suggest the kid use it in BP.  

roothog66 posted:

Taking into consideration swing training in kids who are physically changing on a daily basis is probably a minor consideration at best.

So true!  This time last year my son was wearing a size 8 1/2 shoe.  Today he wears a size 13!  He has grown an inch in the last 6 weeks.  

My son is going through this as we speak.  He has great bat speed and exit velocity as it is with the bbcor and wood.  But of course if we bought him a brand new drop 5 for the 1.15 alloy rather than the .5 of bbcor the exit velo would increase even with same barrel speed.  And I suppose there would be an uptick in barrel speed as well due to lighter bat.  Then he has teammates still swinging drop 8 to drop 10!  One of our best hitters swings drop 8 or 9.  And  as others have indicated it DOES affect how volunteer non baseball people coaches view kids.  While a trained eye may see things differently they just see the speed of the ball off the bat.  Not everything comes down to the future either.  Many of us do think about that but I always ask myself 'what if this is the last year my son is a good baseball player?'  Maybe hitting 15 home runs as a 14yo instead of 3 may be the highlight of his life.  Maybe he will go to 15u and not be able to hit at all against the matured pitchers throwing 85+.  Are we looking so much to the future that we forget to let our kid have his moment in the sun now?  By golly I think I just talked myself into getting him a new bat.  I must be very persuasive!

real green posted:

You don't give enough credit to the eye test.  Also as Roothog points out, it is not like a kid can't swing BBCOR.  I kid driving it out of the big boy field with his legal -5 bat during BP will make a bigger impression than a kid hitting gappers with his BBCOR.  Regarding other bat options, if they were legal in the league or games the team played, I would suggest the kid use it in BP.  

 

You’re correct. I’ve proven over and over again how poorly the eye test sees reality to give it much credit.

 

Just who is it a 14U supposed to be impressing? His dad? Some travel coach? His HS coach? I suppose there are a few college coaches out there looking at 14Us, and I wouldn’t doubt there are some ML scouts doing it too. But really. Is the difference between a drop 8 composite and a drop 3 BBCOR gonna get a 14YO player much more than a trophy?

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