WWBA 2023 Insight

So you are posting here wanting advice on how to game the system?

In 4+ years we never made a reservation through PG. We stayed in some of the hotels, but didn’t make the reservation through them. We received an email a couple years ago asking which hotel we were staying in and we said we were staying with family in the area

We never booked hotels with PG either.

@3and2Fastball posted:

So you are posting here wanting advice on how to game the system?

Yes, indeed I am because my current "stay-to-play" reservations are for $300+/night. Meanwhile I've found several alternative options for half that. PG does some great things for baseball, but at the same time they've also made it difficult for those of that are on tighter budgets.

I think they’ve gotten so big, and the economy is so tight, that they can’t afford to hire the 10-15 private eyes it would take to double check on every family in their bigger tournaments

Never stayed in a stay and pay hotel in 8+ years of travel ball unless it was absolutely the last hotel available within a reasonable distance.  We used VRBO quite a bit and split the cost with another family....sometimes 2.   We rented a house on Lake Allatoona for the WWBA.  5 bedrooms and a huge  basement.   We had 30+ people staying their the last night we were in the area.  Dock on the lake....brought a boat and 2 jet skis.  Best baseball week ever

Yup, never stayed in a stay and pay hotel with PG. Only one time in four years did PG ever ask about where we were staying. I simply replied back that we booked our own accommodations because their stay and pay hotels were outrageously priced and that if they would like to refund part of our tournament fee we would gladly use that to pay for our stay in one of their sponsored hotels. Never heard a peep from them again.

For the WWBA tournaments, we always rented a house via VRBO.

I was the team parent who organized hotels for our team in 2017 and 2018.  Each organization had different rules.  PG's rule back then (and I called them several times to confirm) was that some members of the team had to book enough rooms to hold the whole team, i.e. about 6 rooms (to account for 4 players/room).  They didn't care which people were in the rooms, but that was the way they figured a minimum.

So we had some who stayed with family, camped, used hotel points, or other things - but some families had to pay those negotiated rates.  So just know that if you aren't booking through the organization, someone else on your team probably is.

I don't think PG ever asked us about it, but perhaps we always met the minimum.  However, at least two tournaments did call me, one to ask where everyone was staying (Cincy Flames I think), and one to ask about last-minute cancellations (that was Music City, I believe).

From what I could tell, back then, all the organizations actually did negotiate good rates - except PG.  PG's room rates were always higher than what you could get on your own.

I can imagine what you guys are discussing but don’t want to do the math on how much more money  I would’ve burned through if I didn’t live in the Houston area in the 10-14u.  We are lucky to have a huge talent pool playing baseball in the area and draw teams from all over TX/OK and across the country for the bigger tournaments.  

I was secretly hoping my son would make the ‘C’ team this year to avoid the ~2k hotel and travel bill we will be paying to go to Dallas to play in some tournaments.  happy for him but not happy for my wallet.  Anyone want to swap a home/away room for Dallas (you) and Houston (me)? 😁

My wife and I have been discussing airbnb’ing our basement room during baseball season when my son goes to college. We live 15 min from both Lakepoint and East Cobb. We may even throw in our ziplock bag of PBR and PG bracelet for a few $$$ more… 😁

@Momball11 posted:

I'm interested in trying to avoid the high cost of the stay-to-play hotels. The WWBA will be our first PG tournament. Last year we would make "stay-to-play reservations through tournament's travel agencies, then cancel the reservation directly with the hotel before the "no-penalty cancellation" window closed. Those tournaments never seemed to catch on. Can anyone (feel free to direct message me) provide insight if this will work for PG or any other tactic to get out of PG's "stay-to-play" policy?

Let me jump in on this.   So, if by WWBA you are talking about the National Championship in Marietta/Atlanta Georgia, I would recommend that you wait to get a hotel.   That tournament is so big and there are so many teams, that you can get a hotel in Marietta and then later when the schedule is released find that all of your games are over 1-2 hours away from your Marietta hotel.   We usually reserve a room and then make preparations to change the reservation to another hotel once we see where the games will be played.   

Games can be all over the place. Marietta/Kennesaw is actually pretty central. No matter where you choose to stay you will end up with an hour+ drive to a couple of games. Waiting to reserve a hotel could result in not getting anything anywhere close to where you want to be. You could book a couple different hotels and cancel one of them before the tournament starts

@atlnon posted:

My wife and I have been discussing airbnb’ing our basement room during baseball season when my son goes to college. We live 15 min from both Lakepoint and East Cobb. We may even throw in our ziplock bag of PBR and PG bracelet for a few $$$ more… 😁

Lol...so I'm not the only one who has a collection of bracelets.

Thank you all for your tips and suggestions!

I made a chain - like the kind you would hang on a Christmas tree, although I never quite did that.  It's quite decorative, though.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Games can be all over the place. Marietta/Kennesaw is actually pretty central. No matter where you choose to stay you will end up with an hour+ drive to a couple of games. Waiting to reserve a hotel could result in not getting anything anywhere close to where you want to be. You could book a couple different hotels and cancel one of them before the tournament starts

I would say book a hotel in an area you are comfortable with and has near by amenities that you are looking for (restaurants, shopping, entertainment). You don't want to get stuck with slim pickings in a not so safe area. We had a couple of families one year who waited until the last minute to book hotels. When they got to the hotel they said they pretty much right back out of the parking lot and ended up having to rent an apartment elsewhere to have a decent place to stay because hotels in nicer areas were slim pickings.

Like TBPT said, you are almost guaranteed to have at least one game over an hour away. We usually stayed in a VRBO up in the Woodstock area.  Quick drive to the East Cobb complex if we had a game there or to go watch other games when not playing. But it was also in a nice area with plenty of restaurants around, outlet stores, a lake nearby, etc. We never ran into many other teams in the area. It was also nice having a washer and dryer in the house. The one year we stayed in a hotel, fighting all the parents in the hotel for a washer and dryer was brutal. It was like Hunger Games in trying to get a time when it was not in use. Towards the end, I was waking up at 3am to use the washer/dryer. Even then, some other parents had the same idea.

Never went through PG to book rooms, even if price was comparable mainly because I used CC points, and wanted to maintain flexibility. No one seemed to care.

@anotherparent posted:

I was the team parent who organized hotels for our team in 2017 and 2018.  Each organization had different rules.  PG's rule back then (and I called them several times to confirm) was that some members of the team had to book enough rooms to hold the whole team, i.e. about 6 rooms (to account for 4 players/room).  They didn't care which people were in the rooms, but that was the way they figured a minimum.

So we had some who stayed with family, camped, used hotel points, or other things - but some families had to pay those negotiated rates.  So just know that if you aren't booking through the organization, someone else on your team probably is.

I don't think PG ever asked us about it, but perhaps we always met the minimum.  However, at least two tournaments did call me, one to ask where everyone was staying (Cincy Flames I think), and one to ask about last-minute cancellations (that was Music City, I believe).

From what I could tell, back then, all the organizations actually did negotiate good rates - except PG.  PG's room rates were always higher than what you could get on your own.

Of course it was the Cincy Flames.  Biggest money grab of any organization we ever played in.  They are now using fields that are an hour and a half away from the CLOSEST of the stay and play hotels...and well over 2 hours from others.   We had an 8 AM game at a field an hour from our hotel....then a 1 PM game an hour from our hotel.....IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!  Never played there again....and would never recommend it to anybody.

@Buckeye 2015 posted:

Of course it was the Cincy Flames.  Biggest money grab of any organization we ever played in.  They are now using fields that are an hour and a half away from the CLOSEST of the stay and play hotels...and well over 2 hours from others.   We had an 8 AM game at a field an hour from our hotel....then a 1 PM game an hour from our hotel.....IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!  Never played there again....and would never recommend it to anybody.

Played there with a good but not great team and played there with a team who won it. Field scheduling was drastically different for those two teams.

To be fair, Flames had actually negotiated good rates at the hotels.  We found that there are plenty of interesting things to see while driving through large swaths of Ohio.

Especially at younger ages, some teams appreciate being able to have room blocks so that families can stay together.  Hanging out with the team in a hotel lobby, or at the bar with the other parents, was kind of a thing.  It's no different from weddings, or business conferences.  I think it just gets out of hand when they are requiring it and checking up on teams.

So glad our Org decided not to go. Just looked at 16U and there are 483 teams signed up. There are teams going that have not won a game. We have done two in state WWBAs so far this summer and I think we have seen all but 2 starting pitchers throwing 85+ (one touching 92/93). At least in Texas we can see some pretty high level competition without going to Ga.

@TxballDad posted:

So glad our Org decided not to go. Just looked at 16U and there are 483 teams signed up. There are teams going that have not won a game. We have done two in state WWBAs so far this summer and I think we have seen all but 2 starting pitchers throwing 85+ (one touching 92/93). At least in Texas we can see some pretty high level competition without going to Ga.

Just my opinion, but I believe that there are only two benefits from playing in the Perfect Game WWBA programs.  First, it's the fact that you can get some verified stats.  This is probably more important for pitchers.   Like it or not, velocity numbers attract interest, and when Perfect Game is recording a pitchers velo, that gives you data to promote yourself to college coaches via email, social media etc..   Second, events such as WWBA National Championship in Marietta Georgia, WWBA World's in Jupiter etc.... do attract college coaches.   They are all over the place at those events so they are opportunities to have coaches see your performance.   

For us the WWBA was more than just facing good competition.  As Ster mentioned, there was a recruiting aspect to it, but it was also a small vacation for us and many others. You also get to see some of the top players in the country and sometimes even face them. We've been to WWBA 3 times. Every game my son's team played was competitive. Sure, I've seen a few lopsided box scores but overall it wasn't terrible. And once you get to elimination every team is good. I've always felt Perfect Game did a good job of balancing the pools to have at least one really good team, a few solid teams, and no more than one terrible team.

The thing about the coaches is true, but since 90%+ of players end up in colleges in their home states or nearby, it's really not necessary to go to Georgia to be seen by those local colleges (which happened to our teams several times).  For those with national-level recruitment, yes.  And yes, the competition may be better than at home, and yes pitchers' velos get recorded.

@anotherparent posted:

The thing about the coaches is true, but since 90%+ of players end up in colleges in their home states or nearby, it's really not necessary to go to Georgia to be seen by those local colleges (which happened to our teams several times).  For those with national-level recruitment, yes.  And yes, the competition may be better than at home, and yes pitchers' velos get recorded.

Well, what you say is true, but there are instances where players get opportunities outside of their states.  My son wasn't recruited by any of the home state schools, but because he was seen pitching at some national tournaments, and was able to establish some good measurables, a school three states away recruited and offered him.   

@Ster posted:

Just my opinion, but I believe that there are only two benefits from playing in the Perfect Game WWBA programs.  First, it's the fact that you can get some verified stats.  This is probably more important for pitchers.   Like it or not, velocity numbers attract interest, and when Perfect Game is recording a pitchers velo, that gives you data to promote yourself to college coaches via email, social media etc..   Second, events such as WWBA National Championship in Marietta Georgia, WWBA World's in Jupiter etc.... do attract college coaches.   They are all over the place at those events so they are opportunities to have coaches see your performance.   

The college coaches are there with their list of players they’ve been told to check out. Anyone who stands out among over one hundred plus teams has already been discovered. There aren’t a lot of secrets at these tournaments. What my kids got out of major tournaments is they belonged on the field with the top talent and could compete even if they weren’t top 500 players. When my son got to PG GA he had already been “discovered” by all the college programs his travel coach presold him to for more regional events.

@Ster posted:

Well, what you say is true, but there are instances where players get opportunities outside of their states.  My son wasn't recruited by any of the home state schools, but because he was seen pitching at some national tournaments, and was able to establish some good measurables, a school three states away recruited and offered him.   

Every college my son was interested in was out of region. The nearest was 400 miles away. His travel coaches presold him. There were two significant showcases a lot closer to home the coaches saw him before GA.

@RJM posted:

The college coaches are there with their list of players they’ve been told to check out. Anyone who stands out among over one hundred plus teams has already been discovered. There aren’t a lot of secrets at these tournaments. What my kids got out of major tournaments is they belonged on the field with the top talent and could compete even if they weren’t top 500 players. When my son got to PG GA he had already been “discovered” by all the college programs his travel coach presold him to for more regional events.

That's not our experience.  My son was "discovered" during one of these tournaments (Jupiter).  He wasn't on the list of the college coach who just happen to be watching his game (my son wasn't on the coach's list).  And he was there bec it was one of the big PG national tournaments.

@atlnon posted:

That's not our experience.  My son was "discovered" during one of these tournaments (Jupiter).  He wasn't on the list of the college coach who just happen to be watching his game (my son wasn't on the coach's list).  And he was there bec it was one of the big PG national tournaments.

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. In a major softball tournament my daughter had an outrageous weekend. She was approached by a college not on her list. She ended up there. It was one of the best schools for her major. She wasn’t planning on going to college that far from home.