Well as long as the MLB is doing it, your college kids will be tempted. . We all need to fight tooth and nail against it. Error on the side of caution.
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You can't be there 24/7 to watch them, either in HS or College. All you can do is teach them the right way and let them know that you expect them to do what is right when you aren't around.
To me it is like smoking, drinking and pot in HS and college. The temptation will always be there. Some will rise above it, some will fall.
To me it is like smoking, drinking and pot in HS and college. The temptation will always be there. Some will rise above it, some will fall.
quote:Originally posted by LAball:
Well as long as the MLB is doing it, your college kids will be tempted. . We all need to fight tooth and nail against it. Error on the side of caution.
When making college choices, make sure that you feel confidant with the coaching and training staff where your son will go play. Coaches and trainers will help your son to make the right choices and help to educate them. Most players have to show the trainer what they use, and will be advised against using certain supplements.
I was down visiting my son a few weeks ago and went to the store to get him some more protein and pre workout supplements and he was very careful and was checking to make sure everything was NCAA approved. I hope and pray that most have learned from the past 10 years, (including Braun) In the end I believe our kids are smarter than you think.
Steroids are exponentially more difficult to obtain than they were a few years ago.
Actual steroids (the injectables) have been illegal for quite a while and remains a black market drug. I honestly don't know how I would go about getting this stuff if I wanted to. It's not like marijuana and other drugs in the sense that there are going to be lots of people using it/selling it. Maybe there are some random guys with it at a local gym (college players aren't using public gyms for the most part) but who wants to go ask around to see who has steroids? Seems like a great way to get busted.
Now what has been dicey is prohormones. These are essentially oral steroids - started with Andro (McGwire admitted to using this when it was totally legal) and they have gotten much more sophisticated since. These are in some cases as effective as the steroids that they break down into but are MUCH more dangerous. They put much more stress on the liver than injectable steroids. Irresponsible use WILL cause terrible trauma to the liver. Even worse, the proper post cycle therapy drugs for prohormones/steroids have been illegal for a long time. In other words, for the longest time these oral steroids were legal but the safest means to use the was not.
Side effects like gynecomastia (growth of breast tissue on men) are very common and are related to the increase of estrogen that comes along with raises in testosterone. After a steroid cycle, the testosterone levels drop immediately and drop below natural levels. It takes significantly longer for estrogen levels to drop, so without drugs to combat that estrogen a man's hormone levels will be WAY off. Moreover, there is always the risk that without proper drug usage the body will no longer produce testosterone on its own, or will at least not do so in ample enough amounts. Even with "proper" usage of post cycle therapy, etc users that are under the ages of 25-27 are at huge risk of hormone problems because their endocrine system has not fully matured.
I tell you this because you can actually buy these oral steroids and there are very few sellers that want you to know how dangerous they are! Friends of mine used to go into Complete Nutrition and get sold these prohormones. Salesmen would tell them that they are safe versions of steroids or sometimes just called them "test boosters." There would be no care for post cycle therapy and my friends dealt with some extravagant side effects. It's really sad and frightening. I think that Complete Nutrition no longer sells prohormones, the FDA has really cracked down. GNC had pulled prohormones quite a while ago now.
The issue here is that people still sell these things online. While it is very much a money-saving venture to purchase things like protein for your son online, it is best to know where you're buying from. The largest online retailer, bodybuilding.com, pulled all prohormones and the like after an FDA raid a few years ago. You won't accidentally buy something dangerous there. Many of my teammates do their ordering there and enjoy the fact they're paying MUCH less than GNC and the like.
Generally speaking, college aged kids shouldn't be looking at anything that promises boosts in testosterone as theirs is already sky high. Some testosterone boosting products are harmless and most don't do anything, but there's no use for it at that age.
Here's a quote from another message board about NCAA compliance and supplementation:
You can actually check directly if a supplement is approved by NCAA or not. At this website, you can send in which products you're using or considering, and they will email you back and tell you if any of the listed ingredients are banned.
www.drugfreesport.com/rec
Use password ncaa1, ncaa2, or ncaa3. Takes some poking around but the site maintains lists of banned substances and what they do.
Actual steroids (the injectables) have been illegal for quite a while and remains a black market drug. I honestly don't know how I would go about getting this stuff if I wanted to. It's not like marijuana and other drugs in the sense that there are going to be lots of people using it/selling it. Maybe there are some random guys with it at a local gym (college players aren't using public gyms for the most part) but who wants to go ask around to see who has steroids? Seems like a great way to get busted.
Now what has been dicey is prohormones. These are essentially oral steroids - started with Andro (McGwire admitted to using this when it was totally legal) and they have gotten much more sophisticated since. These are in some cases as effective as the steroids that they break down into but are MUCH more dangerous. They put much more stress on the liver than injectable steroids. Irresponsible use WILL cause terrible trauma to the liver. Even worse, the proper post cycle therapy drugs for prohormones/steroids have been illegal for a long time. In other words, for the longest time these oral steroids were legal but the safest means to use the was not.
Side effects like gynecomastia (growth of breast tissue on men) are very common and are related to the increase of estrogen that comes along with raises in testosterone. After a steroid cycle, the testosterone levels drop immediately and drop below natural levels. It takes significantly longer for estrogen levels to drop, so without drugs to combat that estrogen a man's hormone levels will be WAY off. Moreover, there is always the risk that without proper drug usage the body will no longer produce testosterone on its own, or will at least not do so in ample enough amounts. Even with "proper" usage of post cycle therapy, etc users that are under the ages of 25-27 are at huge risk of hormone problems because their endocrine system has not fully matured.
I tell you this because you can actually buy these oral steroids and there are very few sellers that want you to know how dangerous they are! Friends of mine used to go into Complete Nutrition and get sold these prohormones. Salesmen would tell them that they are safe versions of steroids or sometimes just called them "test boosters." There would be no care for post cycle therapy and my friends dealt with some extravagant side effects. It's really sad and frightening. I think that Complete Nutrition no longer sells prohormones, the FDA has really cracked down. GNC had pulled prohormones quite a while ago now.
The issue here is that people still sell these things online. While it is very much a money-saving venture to purchase things like protein for your son online, it is best to know where you're buying from. The largest online retailer, bodybuilding.com, pulled all prohormones and the like after an FDA raid a few years ago. You won't accidentally buy something dangerous there. Many of my teammates do their ordering there and enjoy the fact they're paying MUCH less than GNC and the like.
Generally speaking, college aged kids shouldn't be looking at anything that promises boosts in testosterone as theirs is already sky high. Some testosterone boosting products are harmless and most don't do anything, but there's no use for it at that age.
Here's a quote from another message board about NCAA compliance and supplementation:
quote:
In my opinion the NCAA does a terrible job with their banned substance list. The list is extremely vague and I believe that is what causes so much confusion. The NCAA itself states: "There is not complete list of banned drug examples."
NCAA athletes should stay away from any supplements a banned substance is found in. Penalties for failing an NCAA Drug Test are very severe and the NCAA puts the responsibility on the student-athlete to know what they are using. The NCAA does not care if you didn't know that you were taking something that is banned.
I would recommend to all NCAA athletes that they disclose any supplements they are taking or thinking about taking to their athletic training staff or strength coaches. Unfortunately, many athletic trainers and/or strength coaches are not very knowledgeable about supplements. There is a good chance that they will tell you to stop taking all supplements. Hopefully this thread will be able to help you make informed choices on your own.
For each substance that is banned, I will provide every alternative name to that substance that I know of, types of supplements that it is commonly found in, and specific supplements that it is found in. The following is a list of common banned substances:
BANNED SUBSTANCES
-1,3-dimethylamylamine
*Classified by the NCAA as: a stimulant
*Synonyms: 4-methyl-2-hexanamine; 4-methyl-2-hexylamine; 2-amino-4-methylhexane; 1,3-dimethylpentylamine; 2-Hexanamine, 4-methyl- (9CI); Methylhexanamine; DMAA; 1,3D; Geranium Oil; Geranium Oil Extract;
*Commonly found in: Preworkouts, Standalone, Fat Burners/Thermogenics
*Supplements containing this ingredient: Jack3d, Cryoshock, OxyELITE Pro, Hemorush, Hemo-Rage, NeuroCore, HydroxyStim, Muscle Marinade, Old Version of 1MR, Old Version of C4 Extreme, Old Version of PreSurge Unleashed, Adrena-G, ACG3
-Glycerol Monostearate
*Classified by the NCAA as: a diuretic
*Synonyms: GMS
*Commonly found in: Preworkouts, Standalone,
*Supplements containing this ingredient: Hemavol (pills and powder), GlycerGrow, AminoCell, Dark Matter, Nitric Fuel, V-12 Magnum, Hemo-Rage, Hemorush, Xpand Xtreme Pump, Slingshot, EPO-Blast
-DHEA
*Classified by the NCAA as: an anabolic agent
*Synonyms: 5-Dehydroepiandrosterone, 5-androsten-3 β-ol-17-one, Dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, DHEA-S, Prasterone, 7-Keto (metabolite)
*Commonly found in: Test Boosters, Standalone
*Supplements containing this ingredient: Methyl 1-D, John Scott's Nitro GH and Test2, ExtenZe, HGH Complete, TestoRX, TriCuts III, many standalone products
-Synephrine
*Classified by the NCAA as: a stimulant
*Synonyms: Oxedrine, Bitter Orange, Bitter Orange Extract
*Commonly found in: Fat Burners/Thermogenics, Preworkouts
*Supplements containing this ingredient: HyperFX, Lipo 6x, Thermonex, 2 Shredded, Jetfuel, Meltdown, Scorch, Syneburn, Tight, Tight! Hardcore, Tight! RTD, MethylBurn, Dialene 4x, Lean Fix Elite, Stizm,
-Anabolic-Androgenic Steroids
-Pro-Hormones
-HGH
RESTRICTED SUBSTANCES
Caffeine
The next subject I touch on will be caffeine. This is where most of the uncertainty comes from in regards to the NCAA banned substance list. Caffeine is classified as RESTRICTED by the NCAA, it is NOT banned.
Drugs and Procedures Subject to Restrictions:
a. Blood Doping.
b. Local Anesthetics (under some conditions).
c. Manipulation of Urine Samples.
d. Beta-2 Agonists permitted only by prescription and inhalation.
e. Caffeine if concentrations in urine exceed 15 micrograms/ml.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...ned+drugs+list
It would take an extremely large dose of caffeine to fail an NCAA Drug Test for caffeine.
Caffeine doses above 9 mg/kg can result in urinary caffeine levels that surpass the doping threshold for many sport organizations
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...tool=pmcentrez
For example; I weigh 223lbs/2.2=101kg---->101 x 9mg=909mg - So it would take someone my size around 900mg of caffeine in 5 hours (half life of caffeine) to fail an NCAA Drug Test for caffeine. It's not recommended for anyone to take that much caffeine at once. Obviously the safe amount of caffeine will differ with people that weigh more or less than me, so do your own calculations.
Helpful Links
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...ned+drugs+list
http://drugfreesportrec.blogspot.com/
http://www.drugfreesport.com/
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/...tance-list.pdf
I want to make it clear that the NCAA does not ban specific supplements, but rather individual ingredients/substances.
You can actually check directly if a supplement is approved by NCAA or not. At this website, you can send in which products you're using or considering, and they will email you back and tell you if any of the listed ingredients are banned.
www.drugfreesport.com/rec
Use password ncaa1, ncaa2, or ncaa3. Takes some poking around but the site maintains lists of banned substances and what they do.
Also, for what it's worth, I have NEVER heard any of my college teammates talk about considering steroids. I believe there is both a sense of honor involved and these kids are smart - many of them are pre-med - people know how dangerous, illegal, etc these things are.
Most guys know there is little to be gained other than protein, a fish oil, maybe a multivitamin, maybe creatine.
Most guys know there is little to be gained other than protein, a fish oil, maybe a multivitamin, maybe creatine.
quote:Originally posted by Wklink:
You can't be there 24/7 to watch them, either in HS or College. All you can do is teach them the right way and let them know that you expect them to do what is right when you aren't around.
To me it is like smoking, drinking and pot in HS and college. The temptation will always be there. Some will rise above it, some will fall.
I think steroids are exponentially worse, as they are used to cheat at the game. Smoking and drinking are legal and have no positive effect on performance, and pot is a minor illegal substance that has no positive effect. I emphasize the cheating aspect with my son every time there is a story, and I can only hope it sinks so as to allow him to make proper choices.
quote:Your kids going to do steroids in College?
I have a better chance of winning the lottery. This never crossed my mind, and I very seriously doubt it ever crossed my college son's mind. I trust his judgement 100%. There are many other things to worry about.
You sould worry more about your son's summer teamates....
It's out there and its pretty scary.
I know when I was playing College ball I had first hand experience with it. A former player from the school I was at transferred and when we played him he talked to the other upper classmen about what he was using and "great" it was. I was there when the conversation happened.
I was also witness to a HC telling a bench got the only way he'd get on the field was to start juicing.
It's crazy what some people will do and go through because they think it'll help them out.
I know when I was playing College ball I had first hand experience with it. A former player from the school I was at transferred and when we played him he talked to the other upper classmen about what he was using and "great" it was. I was there when the conversation happened.
I was also witness to a HC telling a bench got the only way he'd get on the field was to start juicing.
It's crazy what some people will do and go through because they think it'll help them out.
quote:Originally posted by JPontiac:
Also, for what it's worth, I have NEVER heard any of my college teammates talk about considering steroids. I believe there is both a sense of honor involved and these kids are smart - many of them are pre-med - people know how dangerous, illegal, etc these things are.
Most guys know there is little to be gained other than protein, a fish oil, maybe a multivitamin, maybe creatine.
That's good to hear. Maybe the culture will change. Unfortunately the temptation, especially at the professional level, will be there for a while. As long as there is a perception that other people, in other countries, are getting an unfair advantage there will be that temptation.
The MLB has to clean up its act both in the US and overseas, especially in Latin America. The factory mentality down there is downright disgraceful. They exploit these kids, give them false hope, in some cases completely screw them up and the abandon them when most of them inevitably fall short.
For years now I've stressed to my two sons that there would be temptations to take the easy way(steroids) especially in college. One of course plays baseball and the other is in track and field but there are abusers in both sports. Although my guys are weight lifting fanatics and if you ever see them with their shirts off you might wonder, I honest to God believe they have heeded my message and would never take PEDs knowingly. I told them I want them to always be able to look in the mirror and be able proud of what THEY accomplished athletically on their own not with artificial help. I'm extremely proud (probably too much sometimes) of what they can do in their respective sports but I told them them they would not only lose the respect of others but of myself if they ever took the shortcut PEDs offer. I honestly believe they have listened me and I know for a fact my older son already had to undergo one of the highly monitered urine tests by the NCAA last season and passed with flying colors. 
I don't think all PEDs in the world will help Pop up hit any better! Team faced a ranked D1, said the pitchers were throwing 95, blew right past him. I told him either start throwing 95 or start hitting 95.
Suggested he started his swing as the pitcher winds up.
Suggested he started his swing as the pitcher winds up.
quote:Originally posted by Wklink:quote:Originally posted by JPontiac:
Also, for what it's worth, I have NEVER heard any of my college teammates talk about considering steroids. I believe there is both a sense of honor involved and these kids are smart - many of them are pre-med - people know how dangerous, illegal, etc these things are.
Most guys know there is little to be gained other than protein, a fish oil, maybe a multivitamin, maybe creatine.
That's good to hear. Maybe the culture will change. Unfortunately the temptation, especially at the professional level, will be there for a while. As long as there is a perception that other people, in other countries, are getting an unfair advantage there will be that temptation.
The MLB has to clean up its act both in the US and overseas, especially in Latin America. The factory mentality down there is downright disgraceful. They exploit these kids, give them false hope, in some cases completely screw them up and the abandon them when most of them inevitably fall short.
I think health education programs in grade school and high school have been including warnings about steroid use for a while. Where I went to school in Illinois we were warned about the dangers of steroid use on multiple occasions during our state-mandated health curriculum.
For full disclosure, I work for a dietary supplement company. For this reason, I understand the allure and believe that there is some positive use for supplements but I also see how people's hopes can be exploited in the industry.
If anyone has any questions about that kind of thing I'm always happy to help - it's a thing that can get confusing and expensive very quickly.
I would bet that at least of few of the kids of posters are using steroids and or HGH. Statistically, there is a 100% chance due to the huge volume of posters. There are also kids drinking, smoking pot, smoking cigs, chewing and using every type of illegal substance known to mankind. Most kids work out in gyms. It is very easy to get what you want and it is impossible to monitor your kid 100% of the time.
Have the conversation. Have it again. Teenagers are basically stupid and can't make a decision that involes more than a week in advance. Health problems that may happen when they are 40 are not a concern.
Have the conversation. Have it again. Teenagers are basically stupid and can't make a decision that involes more than a week in advance. Health problems that may happen when they are 40 are not a concern.