Your thoughts on Travel Ball.

I think that is a great post.

Great post....and the "daddy ball" statement is spot on.  Not ALL teams coached by dads are "daddy ball".  EVERY team my son ever played on growing up....from T-ball thru 16U was coached by a guy who had a kid on the team...usually multiple guys.  Not ONCE did our team resemble what most people typically call "daddy" ball.  The best kids played the right positions.  We did things the right way....played in the top tourneys and had almost EVERY kid who ever had a desire to play college baseball end up playing college baseball....including multiple D1 guys. He played for 2 former MLB pitchers....both of who had kids on the teams (one kid played RF only for the entire summer).   I would bet that if you asked any of the kids from those teams if they ever felt like they didn't get a fair chance due to having dads coaching that they would say no.  Don't get me wrong....we played against ALOT of daddy ball teams over the years....ones where the coaches kids played SS, CF and pitched...even if they had no business playing there.  Yes it happens...and it happens quite a bit, but just because a team has dads as coaches....doesn't necessarily mean it is always going to be daddy ball.

Daddy ball isn't confined to just travel ball or little league.  My son plays for a high school whose coaches son (all 5'-6" of him) played SS all 4 years on Varsity.   It was the running joke until the kid graduated last year. 

Great post... The one thing that I would suggest that PG think about for the future is possibly creating qualification tournaments for the highest level WWBA tournaments... The current 17U National Championship has 384 teams... It's a TREMENDOUS tournament, but how many teams really should be there...? Will there ever be a cutoff at 400 teams...? 500 teams...? This is not a complaint, it's a simple observation... I don't want to shut people out either... I don't know the answers, just thinking out loud...

I think that's one of the great things about the WWBA....anyone is welcome.  Yes, it's huge....but you know that going in.  My son played for a 14U team that went down.  Our original team broke up in the spring due to the coach taking a new job...so we had to scramble to find a team.  Fortunately we found a great guy, who was also a great coach....but his team was nowhere near the level my son was used to playing for.  They had already signed up for the WWBA by the time we signed on to play.  We struggled in tourneys here in Ohio/Michigan....and then headed South.  Fortunately we planned ahead....lake house, jet skis, boat, etc......with some baseball sprinkled in.  Imagine our surprise when we won 2 games and lost to a team from East Cobb (one of their mid-level teams) 3-2 in extras when we gave up a 2-run error on a fly ball in the bottom of 6 (or 7, or whatever we played then).  The kids were thrilled.  They competed well against one of the "big boys".

WWBA kind of reminded me of Cooperstown.  Some top level teams....a lot of mid-level and some really bad ones.....but they were all their for one reason....to play in one of the top events in the country.  Results didn't matter....but when you did play the game of your life and pulled off the upset, that's something the kids will remember for a long time.

My 14u son plays Travel Ball.  My biggest complaint about ALL the travel ball teams is that too much is left up to us clueless parents and we have the capacity to mess it up spectacularly. I live near East Cobb, so I think PG Staff is familiar with my area.  Many of us parents want to get our kids to try out for these "top" teams but don't have a clue what they are without extensive research, and I mean extensive! And yes, if you are throwing 95 in 10th grade these top teams find you...but what about the other 80% of the roster?  Isn't it easier to make the 17u team if you were on the 16u team and the 15u team?

For example, arguably one of the best teams at 14u this year was the Ga Jackets, they show up on the 16u PG list as the number 14 team nationally...but are absent from the top 100 17u list.  So, is it a good place or not?  What about East Cobb, they have multiple teams show up on every top PG list so you should definitely take your kid to the east cobb tryouts...they have ELEVEN 16u teams this year, including two Astros teams...so how is a parent suppose to help their kid navigate this Travel Baseball world when there are just so many teams?  The 16u Astros have 36 rostered players this year according to their website, the 643 Cougars show up as the 57th team on the PG list and their roster doesn't top 20...see what I mean about extensive research. Lots of parents are going to think they are signing up for one thing but in reality they just signed their kid up for something totally different.

I am all for every kid playing baseball that wants to play, but I wish PG had a qualifying system so us parents weren't duped into paying for the 16th level team at East Cobb when we thought we were signing up for the team right below the Astros. There are too many teams claiming to be the top teams, that is the ultimate problem with so many Travel Ball teams.

Actually the 17u WWBA could have 800 teams.  It is about that many that request to get in.  So we select the best possible teams based on field availability.  I was there for 4 days this year and can honestly say, I didn't see a single team that I would consider bad.  Now if you are comparing all these teams to the very best teams there, I could see where some might look bad.

That said, I suppose there will always be teams that get in when they just don't belong.   For many teams it is the first time we have ever seen them, so we  might have selected them based on one player we know on the roster.  Believe me, the top teams like the exposure, and they get a ton of it.  But they are there to win the tournament, first and foremost.  They want the rings and the reputation it brings to their organization.

On the other hand, we are most interested in the individual players.  Almost every team will be in a pool with at least 2 or 3 top teams.  Those top teams draw a lot of attention.  So other than being on one of those teams, a good player can benefit most by playing against them.  We have found many future draft picks and DI stars playing on some of these teams that are considered not so good.  We have also seen some amazing upsets.  

To me the best thing is all the kids there get a chance to see some of the very best players in the country, future 1st round picks and Big Leaguers. I believe that in itself is quite an education.  For some it shows them what needs to be done to reach a high level.  For others it shows them what level they fit in.  The main goal is always to simply enjoy the experience.

Once again, the top teams play for keeps.  We have seen brawls on the field and in the stands and in the parking lot.  Police have been called on several occasions.  We have had umpires assaulted and serious injuries.  And we have listened to more bitching than you could ever imagine.  These tournaments are not what some call a showcase.  There might be teams there that are just showcasing players for all the scouts and recruiters.  But the top teams are there to win and they do whatever it takes to win the championship.  Sometimes that requires saving a couple real good pitchers for the playoffs.  Then if they get beat one or both of those pitchers doesn't pitch after the first day of the weeklong event.

I know some of the above might scare some teams from wanting to get in, but it is what it is.

I think Travel Ball is a wonderful opportunity for talented younger kids to play more Baseball and hopefully (more on that later) play better competition than they would find in a rec league.  For the older age groups it is a great way to get in front of scouts.

I'd like to see some way of not mixing up the AA Teams in Tournaments with the AAA/Majors teams in Tournaments for the 9U-14U age groups in the Midwest.  Way too much of that which leads to lopsided games.  I've coached on both sides of huge blowout games and they aren't fun.  They can be an opportunity to learn for the losing team but when you pay X amount of $$$ for a Tournament and you spend the time to get there you don't really want to see a 24-2 game.  

Even with the huge amount of Travel Teams in the 15U-18U age groups, a lot of kids still fall through the cracks.  I know a rising Senior who is an OF.  Great hitter (90+ exit velocity), great arm (89 mph from outfield) and a great baserunner who was timed at a 7.1 60 despite never really learning from a track coach.  I think with a few tweaks or merely if he was in the right travel organization he'd be running 6.7 60's..... I see him as a borderline D1/D2 prospect but he's playing on a team that  doesn't play Perfect Game tournaments.  They are just playing regional stuff in front of D3 scouts.

I guess that is mostly on the parents for being somewhat clueless.  Point being Travel Ball in its current state is really in its infancy.

PG Staff....excellent post.  In my opinion the WWBA is about playing against the best of the best.  As I said earlier, my son's team at 14U wasn't one of them....but they did much better than expected and were thrilled.  My son's 17U team was very good....and didn't fare nearly as well as they had hoped (they thought they could contend) and they weren't at all happy.  I guess it's all about expectations.  Either way, it's a great event.....though I think we seem to have hijacked this thread....lol

3and2Fastball posted:

I think Travel Ball is a wonderful opportunity for talented younger kids to play more Baseball and hopefully (more on that later) play better competition than they would find in a rec league.  For the older age groups it is a great way to get in front of scouts.

I'd like to see some way of not mixing up the AA Teams in Tournaments with the AAA/Majors teams in Tournaments for the 9U-14U age groups in the Midwest.  Way too much of that which leads to lopsided games.  I've coached on both sides of huge blowout games and they aren't fun.  They can be an opportunity to learn for the losing team but when you pay X amount of $$$ for a Tournament and you spend the time to get there you don't really want to see a 24-2 game.  

Even with the huge amount of Travel Teams in the 15U-18U age groups, a lot of kids still fall through the cracks.  I know a rising Senior who is an OF.  Great hitter (90+ exit velocity), great arm (89 mph from outfield) and a great baserunner who was timed at a 7.1 60 despite never really learning from a track coach.  I think with a few tweaks or merely if he was in the right travel organization he'd be running 6.7 60's..... I see him as a borderline D1/D2 prospect but he's playing on a team that  doesn't play Perfect Game tournaments.  They are just playing regional stuff in front of D3 scouts.

I guess that is mostly on the parents for being somewhat clueless.  Point being Travel Ball in its current state is really in its infancy.

 

I'm also from the Midwest.  It would be great to find a way to do that at 9U-14U.....at 15-18U, I think it's pretty good....the teams seems to gravitate to the tourneys that they fit best in, though there are obviously exceptions.  The problem with 9U-14U is that a lot of organizations are trying to build up their "reputations" by telling recruits that they'll play in the "best tournaments".  In most cases, if you have a checkbook, you can enter those.....but that doesn't mean they should.  I'd love it if a couple of the bigger tourney organizations would find a way to "rate" teams....other than points, the way USSSA does, which isn't a real good indicator of talent....just how many tourneys they've played in.  I'm not sure how to do that at 9U-14U....as there are just so many new organizations/teams popping up every summer.....but it would make for a lot more competitive baseball if they could. 

I don't think it would be fair for us to qualify teams for parents.  It wasn't that many years ago that Jeff Petty started an organization called the Canes.  Before actually seeing what they were, we wouldn't have known what they were.  Now they have Canes teams in several parts of the country.  Some are better than others, but we don't always know until after the fact. But we do know that the Evoshield Canes might be the #1 team in the country over the past few years. They have won the WWBA World Championship in Jupiter the last three years, along with many other PG Championships.

Parents can do the research and figure most things out.  At least regarding the past.  At certain age groups the East Cobb Astros are their top team.  At one time the East Cobb Braves were their top 17u team.  And then there is the East Cobb Yankees, different organization, but they have a history as being one of the top two 18u programs in the nation, along with Midland RedSkins. In addition there are other organizations in that area that are among the best in the entire nation. I'm actually of the opinion that Atlanta and the surrounding area might be the nation's hotbed for talent these days. No disrespect for California, Florida or Texas.  Something that I think helps is that the Atlanta area has to have more young African American baseball players than any place in the country. But that is not the only reason!

Anyway, the problem with PG "qualifying" teams is new outstanding organizations are formed each year.  Several of the very best organizations didn't even exist 5-10 years ago.  And the others that have been successful for a long time should be easy to research and find out what their top level team or teams are.

I would suggest doing even more research.  Some of the organizations that win a lot and play in these big tournaments might not be a good fit for every player.  Find out as much as possible about the leadership before signing up.  Try to eliminate as many surprises as possible.  What is good for one player might be bad for someone else.  And keep in mind... There are a lot of very good teams and organizations out there. Unfortunately there are some that are just the opposite.

Travel ball in Southern California is particularly insane, and there is no alternative like Legion that I know of.  There is so much elite talent, and as PGStaff noted, the powerhouse organizations and teams are well-known by the colleges and pro scouts.  So if your son is good enough to play on one of them, your opportunities for D1 baseball are endless.  The top baseball schools out here like UCLA and Cal invite these teams to play "events" on their fields and they can pick and choose their future recruits then and there (including Freshman).  I am not sure what these teams cost because my son is not good enough to play on one, but they have to be worth it since there is such a payoff for most of the kids who make these teams.  Some of the kids I have seen on those teams do not look all that special to me, but I guess everybody assumes they are and they get numerous schools interested in them.  Like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The bad side of it is many of the rest of the teams.  There is so much pressure to get on the "right" team--coaches with MLB connections, pipelines into colleges, etc.  There is one organization here that has a big name since they have a family name of a former MLB player and who has several strong teams with legitimate talent.  But then they actually charge kids to tryout and must accept some lower level kids for the money since some of their teams are pretty bad.  Some of those kids parents are being swindled thinking that by being with that organization they are going to play college baseball.  It seems here in SoCal more and more organizations are popping up with big name sponsors and charging lots of money on the promise of connections.

For us parents, we have to be sure that at the younger ages (pre-high school) our kids are on teams where they get to play a lot and improve their game.  I've seen kids on top 12U teams who mercy every team in a tourney, play 4-5 inning games and some kids never get an at bat.  What development are those kids getting?  But I totally understand that if you have a hope of playing D1 baseball, the sooner in high school your son can get on a top travel ball team, the better.  There are just so many more opportunities for them that way.  For the rest, it is really just to get exposure through the PG and Baseball Factory and PBR showcases and hope they do well enough to generate some praise and interest.  It is a much tougher road that way, but kids need to be seen somewhere other than their high school team.

I think we get too caught up in semantics.  I started a thread about this a while back. How do we define elite.  What is a great team?  Those are all relative terms and defined differently by different people. I do get offended sometimes by the elitist who think anything just below where their kid plays is no longer top notch. My personal feeling is any organization that places most if not all their players in a college program is a great program. Here's the thing though - some kids just want to play!  Their goal is not necessarily to play at the next level. Should we not include those kids?  Should they not be able to play a game they enjoy?  And if a team is not quite as good as others should they not be allowed to challenge themselves by playing up a level?  Yes there are problems but generally I think this is the best time ever for youth baseball. We can't worry about others and what they do. My thing is that my kid is marginal. He is 'great' I guess compared to the entire group of 14's playing in the entire country. But marginal compared to those who have a strong desire to play college ball. I want to be part of an organization that will go to bat for my son in a few years. I know our owner/operator will do that. We could do this much more cheaply but then who would help him get placed?  That is why we do it. And before anyone brings up the economics of the situation - you could have saved all that money and paid for college yada yada yada.  The economics are not why you do it. It's first and foremost because it's a blast for the kid to play the highest level he can and second to give him the best chance possible to fulfill his dream. If his dream school offered him zero scholarship dollars and the 35th roster spot it would all be worthwhile. Nothing to do with money or scholarships. He is well aware that he is expected to perform academically and get his scholarship that way because that is the only thing you can fully control!

Ahhh.....there it is "Elite"   What is Elite?  Who determines Elite?   Here in Ohio, 7-8 years ago, there was only one "Elite".  The Ohio Elite.  They were very good (and still are)....one of the top 2 or 3 programs in the state and probably top 10 in the Midwest.  Now there are at least 20 programs just here in Ohio that use "Elite" in their name.....some of which started what seems like 2 weeks ago with absolutely no track record of any kind.  I can guarantee you that parents of younger kids see "Elite" in the name and just assume the team is good.  Why?  Because Elite, Premier and Select come from the Club Soccer scene....and there were actually rankings that determined those levels.  You started as select and then moved up.  Tourneys had classifications....Premier and Select played in different tourneys....you knew what you were up again.   Nowdays in baseball, it seems every new team you hear about includes one of these names......How in the world do you fit Northeast Ohio Bulldogs Baseball Elite on a jersey??  (that's a made up name btw...not trying to pick on anyone).  I just don't understand how you start a team at 12U and add Premier or Elite to your name without feeling pretty foolish when you get beat the the Okolona Rams.....a local rec team who happened to be playing in the same tourney as you......the names (Elite, Premier and Select) just add to the confusion that newbie travel ball parents are already facing.....please stop using them

2020dad posted:

. I do get offended sometimes by the elitist who think anything just below where their kid plays is no longer top notch. My personal feeling is any organization that places most if not all their players in a college program is a great program. Here's the thing though - some kids just want to play!  Their goal is not necessarily to play at the next level. Should we not include those kids?  Should they not be able to play a game they enjoy?  And if a team is not quite as good as others should they not be allowed to challenge themselves by playing up a level?  

Very well said, and I agree.   Maybe a solution would be to have Tournament Directors make things very clear as to which Tournaments are "Open" and which ones are divided up AA & AAA/Majors.  Reality is, in the Midwest at least, they wait to see how many teams sign up and then decide.  I've coached AA teams & I've coached Majors teams.  In either case I wanted to have more control as to the type of competition we were scheduling.

CACO3GIRL,

I think you will like what we will soon be doing.  Every team will have its own web page on our site.  It will contain a lot of information about every team. Everything from schedule, results, history, accomplishments, rosters, alumni, with every player linked to their profile, stats, etc.  kind of like it was their own website where they can enter content. We will be doing this for every team associated with PG in any way.

Of course, our reason for doing this isn't for parents as much as for scouts, college coaches, players and teams.  But after reading your post, it might be very helpful to parents as well.  

Ok here it goes.  IMO, the more opportunities to play the better.  So different levels of travel ball are great.  It allows each player to find his best fit. 

But from my view, scouting these travel tournaments seems very inefficient.  Baseball just moves too slow to make good use of time.  Maybe a position player gets a few ball hit to him over 2 hours.  Maybe he gets 3 at bats over 2 hours.  Then most of the kids there are just not "interesting" to the "big guys."  Pitching seems to be the biggest draw as they are throwing several pitches an inning.  So go.  Have a good time.  But have the proper expectations.  The showcase model seems to be much more efficient. 

Kid is on one of those "marginal" teams.  Should we go to those "big" tournaments?  We did.  Played well.  Got beat.  But as has been said, it was a good measuring stick. 

As for researching teams.  It is very difficult just for the reason that things change every season.  As more competition comes along, rosters get stretched.  We had an organization who would typically pull in many top players "loose out" to a competing organization who recruited 50% of their team the year prior.  So you just never really know what you'll get.  Do your best.  And don't worry about "rankings."   

PGStaff posted:

CACO3GIRL,

I think you will like what we will soon be doing.  Every team will have its own web page on our site.  It will contain a lot of information about every team. Everything from schedule, results, history, accomplishments, rosters, alumni, with every player linked to their profile, stats, etc.  kind of like it was their own website where they can enter content. We will be doing this for every team associated with PG in any way.

Of course, our reason for doing this isn't for parents as much as for scouts, college coaches, players and teams.  But after reading your post, it might be very helpful to parents as well.  

YEAH!!!!!!!  Great idea!

Son has been in it five years, and it has been a blast!

Son and I have friends all over the Texas/La area we would have never met.  I could have spent the time working, I suppose.  He has got to meet and play against kids from all over the US, Puerto Rico, Panama and Mexico.

All because of a little white ball with red stitches on it.

Enjoy the ride, because we sure are!

The original question was: What do I think of travel ball? I answer that with a hearty "loved it".  I compare the schedule and effort my player put in with the effort and schedule of his older sibling who was totally into music. Comparable journeys b/t student-athlete & student-musician. Lots of on-field practice and coaching  (lots of lessons & practice time with the band), lots of showcases/tourneys (lots of competitions and gigs), lots of travel costs & team fees (travel to jazz camps and equipment...yikes!). Both ended up doing what they love in college. One at a D-3 and one at an Ivy. Both only fully understood the intense competition in their respective fields later in their journeys. But, yay, they finally did!

Travel ball afforded (irony intended!) my youngest the opportunity to learn and play a sport he loves during the summer months (okay... and fall and winter). Our public school can barely afford to field even the most basic of athletic endeavors during the school year. The entrepreneurs of the US found an opening and ran with it. I say 'thanks' to all those TB coaches filling the niche. How cool that my kid got to learn from & play against top-tier talent in a part of the world he probably won't get to visit again for decades if ever. 

Go44dad posted:

Son has been in it five years, and it has been a blast!

Son and I have friends all over the Texas/La area we would have never met.  I could have spent the time working, I suppose.  He has got to meet and play against kids from all over the US, Puerto Rico, Panama and Mexico.

All because of a little white ball with red stitches on it.

Enjoy the ride, because we sure are!

Love the picture!  He really gets momentum down the hill!

3and2Fastball posted:

2020dad posted:

. I do get offended sometimes by the elitist who think anything just below where their kid plays is no longer top notch. My personal feeling is any organization that places most if not all their players in a college program is a great program. Here's the thing though - some kids just want to play!  Their goal is not necessarily to play at the next level. Should we not include those kids?  Should they not be able to play a game they enjoy?  And if a team is not quite as good as others should they not be allowed to challenge themselves by playing up a level?  

Very well said, and I agree.   Maybe a solution would be to have Tournament Directors make things very clear as to which Tournaments are "Open" and which ones are divided up AA & AAA/Majors.  Reality is, in the Midwest at least, they wait to see how many teams sign up and then decide.  I've coached AA teams & I've coached Majors teams.  In either case I wanted to have more control as to the type of competition we were scheduling.

Here's the other thing 3and2 as you know. The coach classifies his own team!  So it's kind of silly in the first place. We are AAA and should probably be majors. And we have some majors teams that maybe should be AA.  Just too hard to oversee. 

For me and my family, travel ball has been lots of great memories.   We started with the local travel team when he passed the rec ball skills.  ( he was afraid to make a hard throw to first and hurt someone.). He is now a raising enior.  After seven years, we are nearing the end of this ride.   

Was it worth it?  YES.   It looks like my son will be fortunate to continue playing past high school.   We are not 100% sure where.   But it is looking like it will happen.  From that prospective, this has been time well spent.   But even if he told me tomorrow that he was done and did not want to play after high school, it would still have been a great experience that I would not trade for anything.   I still remember when he was trying out for a 12u team.  After the tryout, he looked the coach in the eye, shook his hand and said thank you.  Those are the life lessons that matter.  If it all ends now, he will be a better person because of travel ball.  

I think we have arrived at a point where participation in baseball (and most other sports) is too cluttered with thoughts of the end game.  It is now more logical and less magical.  A young boy's dream of being a big leaguer now gets dissected and scrutinized to the nth degree and there is this sense of need to create a master plan to help johnny get there.  

I get it.  Information is a powerful thing.  It is great to have a plan.  We live in the information age.  Travel ball is a critical piece for many as part of this road map.  Now, more than ever, young hopefuls are provided with the resources, tools and directions to follow their dreams.  It's not a dream any more.  It is a calculated master plan.  So much of this is a good thing.  But the negative aspect is losing a little piece of playing solely and purely for the love of the game.  Every competitive event has some element of consideration as to how this positions the individual player for the next level.   Even when PG describes how much the top teams want to win his events, make no mistake, each player (and parent) are carefully considering which recruiters/schools/scouts will be there to watch.  It's definitely not solely all about the competition and the win.

I have a great young group of kids coming through our HS program right now, and mostly a great group of parents.  They each seem to love playing and love the game.  Many are just good enough to have realistic college playing aspirations.  I will do my best to help them get there and their parents are doing a pretty good job as well.  But, despite my persistent efforts to remind them to really enjoy playing each game on each day, to enjoy being a special group as a HS team, to enjoy playing competitively before it becomes a daily grind, each of them gets caught up in spending too much time and head space looking toward, worrying about, what events they have to attend to be seen, what travel team they need to make, what instructor will have the right connections, what tournaments will have the right RC's, etc., etc.  

Travel ball is a great thing.  But, in some ways, it also contributes to the chipping away of the magical purity of the game.  

I hope some day soon that there becomes an opportunity, a niche, for hometown baseball to make a revival of sorts.  No recruiters or golf carts allowed.

Great topic!  I think travel baseball, select baseball, tournament baseball or whatever you want to call it can be a great experience for a kid.  I help run a select organization and can tell you that the biggest problem is actually the parents.  Most have a completely insane view of their kids ability at a younger age.  by the time they get a little older like 14 and up they start to get a clue.  

Parents that are unhappy seem to be the one that use the term daddy ball.  One of our 12U coaches is a former 13 year MLB veteran.  He still has parents that complain about his coaching.  One says he's not competitive enough.  Pretty sure he knows more than they ever will about the game.  Some dad's are great coaches some are terrible.

Now that my son has gone thru it all, played some college and got hurt I can tell you that for the top players the team matters but for the majority it is really what instruction you are getting.  My son has been very fortunate to be trained by the above coach, a current AAA manager and a two time all-star catcher.  They have all helped him tremendously but in the end he is limited by genetics and that is his mom's fault!

To anyone that keeps looking for that next best team, step back and see if you really need it.  Sports is mostly not about the result but about the process and the experiences.  It will all be over way too soon and then you get to wait for your grand-kids to spoil!

There are some really good teams out there but are they really good for your kid.  I mean is he learning, improving, growing up, etc.  You can assemble a team for tournaments from around the country to just win but are those teams developing your kid for whatever it is that they aspire to be.

Parents seem to want their kids to be on a winning team, which I get but shouldn't the goal be to get your kid better? Our organization has been criticized by several because we don't win enough.  We win on average 2/3 of our games at all levels.  They say that our winter training is great.  Yet we lose several each year to a program that has very little training but they assemble a huge roster with a bunch of talent and win more.  IMO you don't get better getting splinters in your butt.  Find the best team that you will get the most playing time that offers the best instruction.

Some of my best memories are from trips we took as a family to baseball tournaments, near and far.  Enjoy the ride where ever it may take you.

I see a lot of very talented kids that truly love the game. Some have committed to power house college programs and every MLB club knows them well.  Some are highly ranked players that for the most part can only go down by playing in certain events.  But they love the game and the competition so much, there's nothing they would rather do.  They actually need it, with or without all the college recruiters and MLB scouts.  

When I coached in college I told our players we didn't care what most people in the stands think.  We only care about the very few that really understand the game and that is who we want to impress. When the best players can get in front of college coaches and MLB scouts they enjoy it.  They know they are in front of people that know the game.  So even though the player may be committed and known by all the scouts, there's always a sense of importance when those coaches and scouts are watching.

I love it all... Little tykes playing TBall for the first time, the local Legion teams, the adult leagues, youth, HS, College, and everything else right up to the Major Leagues.  It is all great IMO!  We just got through sponsoring a Whiffle Ball tournament!  But there is just something extra special watching a game with some of the very best players from California playing against some of the best from Florida, Texas, Georgia, or any other area of the country.  

Isn't it easier to make the 17u team if you were on the 16u team and the 15u team?

The only thing that makes it easier is talent. These teams have turnover too. I got to know an Arsenal dad from coaching against his son's team. He told me four kids from the 13u team still made the team at 17/18u.

My son got exposure to all the academy 17/18u teams by playing against the younger programs for three years and excelling. He received invites from all of them. When it came time to showcase he selected a program that only had a 17/18u showcase age team.

If you need to learn more about travel programs wander around at tournaments when your son isn't playing and ask questions.

When I was in high school playing on a good Legion team was as close as it got to showcasing on a regular basis. We also did the MLB tryout camps. It was open to players at least sixteen. 

Everyone on our Legion team was fortunate to play with a future first round pick. There were always scouts and coaches around due to him. This and making it to Regions three straight years gave us a lot of exposure to college coaches. But all the exposure was still very regional. I knew guys who slipped through the cracks playing for bad Legion teams. They ended up at the local D3s. 

Now a kid can get national exposure or exposure in the region they wish. Both my kids went away to play. It's what they wanted. My daughter went south. My son went to the Midwest. 

What I would like to see in preteen ball is the dads who know what they're doing take over rather than leave with their kids for travel ball. My son came from a strong LL. He never played with anyone he was afraid to fire the ball at. The all star teams expected to at least be in the district final four every year (eighteen team district).  There are a lot of district and section pennants on the fences.

A couple of years later some parents decided the league was too competitive, got control and dumbed it down. After two years these people were tossed off the board by parents who waited for their kids to play in the league as it was when my son played. Eleven years after my son left LL they still have eight teams in every level.

The better kids play in a Sunday DH AA travel league. The team is potential all stars from the league. It's really legal all star prep. On June 15th the coaches aren't trying to figure which of twelve shortstops should play where. It's all sorted out in travel.

RJM posted:

Isn't it easier to make the 17u team if you were on the 16u team and the 15u team?

The only thing that makes it easier is talent. These teams have turnover too. I got to know an Arsenal dad from coaching against his son's team. He told me four kids from the 13u team still made the team at 17/18u.

My son got exposure to all the academy 17/18u teams by playing against the younger programs for three years and excelling. He received invites from all of them. When it came time to showcase he selected a program that only had a 17/18u showcase age team.

If you need to learn more about travel programs wander around at tournaments when your son isn't playing and ask questions.

Yes! I had the best time in the laundry room with Moms & Dads from around the country and learned a ton about how other teams work and what was ahead for our family. Fascinating. Often those laundry room discussions were better than the bleacher chat IMHO. B/c it wasn't about the game being played that day but all the other stuff. We were/are all going through this together. I do miss that. (B/c summer college ball just isn't the same...tho' only kinda missing the laundry room!)

cabbagedad posted:

I think we have arrived at a point where participation in baseball (and most other sports) is too cluttered with thoughts of the end game.  It is now more logical and less magical.  A young boy's dream of being a big leaguer now gets dissected and scrutinized to the nth degree and there is this sense of need to create a master plan to help johnny get there.  

I get it.  Information is a powerful thing.  It is great to have a plan.  We live in the information age.  Travel ball is a critical piece for many as part of this road map.  Now, more than ever, young hopefuls are provided with the resources, tools and directions to follow their dreams.  It's not a dream any more.  It is a calculated master plan.  So much of this is a good thing.  But the negative aspect is losing a little piece of playing solely and purely for the love of the game.  Every competitive event has some element of consideration as to how this positions the individual player for the next level.   Even when PG describes how much the top teams want to win his events, make no mistake, each player (and parent) are carefully considering which recruiters/schools/scouts will be there to watch.  It's definitely not solely all about the competition and the win.

I have a great young group of kids coming through our HS program right now, and mostly a great group of parents.  They each seem to love playing and love the game.  Many are just good enough to have realistic college playing aspirations.  I will do my best to help them get there and their parents are doing a pretty good job as well.  But, despite my persistent efforts to remind them to really enjoy playing each game on each day, to enjoy being a special group as a HS team, to enjoy playing competitively before it becomes a daily grind, each of them gets caught up in spending too much time and head space looking toward, worrying about, what events they have to attend to be seen, what travel team they need to make, what instructor will have the right connections, what tournaments will have the right RC's, etc., etc.  

Travel ball is a great thing.  But, in some ways, it also contributes to the chipping away of the magical purity of the game.  

I hope some day soon that there becomes an opportunity, a niche, for hometown baseball to make a revival of sorts.  No recruiters or golf carts allowed.

Agreed cabbagedad, the "if you aren't training someone else is" mentality gets fixated in the thoughts of coaches, parents and most of all the players. The thoughts of playing the game for fun, are replaced with "keeping up with the Jones's". It starts becoming a job. They are getting more and more frustrated and burned out IMO. Happened to my 2016. Wish I gave him a break somewhere along the line. 

That all being said, I believe travel ball is a great opportunity. As a parent (and former coach) It just has to be put in some form of moderation. Thoughts going through my head on my 2018. I don't want to hold him back, however want him to continue to love the game and not worry about the end destination so much.

PGStaff posted:

Here are some of my thoughts FWIW

I use the words (Travel Ball) only because that is what most people call summer/fall baseball and even spring for the younger age groups.  Anyway, there seems to be a divide among people as to whether Travel Ball is good or bad for the game. I've even read some comments where people claim it is ruining the game.  What do you think?

Being an older person that has been involved with baseball his entire life, here is how I see it.

Years ago, those that were the more talented kids in an area played American Legion.  In any given area these Legion teams were comprised of 18 kids from several different high schools.  Because these Legion teams had the majority of the talent, it was great baseball and a place scouts could go see several talented players at one time.  The only problem was that those not selected for the Legion roster were often left out of baseball for the summer.

Fast forward to today...  Legion Baseball still exists and it is actually strong in some areas of the country.  However, there is no doubt that the best talent is playing Travel Ball these days.  At the highest level it is as good as it can get.  No boundaries, some of the top teams recruit nationally to get the very best talent.  The MLB organizations and college recruiters know which travel organizations have a lot of talent.  Every year the number of high level travel programs grows.  With strict boundaries there is no possible way that legion ball can draw the same level of talent.

In most parts of the country Legion baseball has become the "other" option to play.  BTW, I think that is great for the game.  Best of all it can be a low cost option.  In some parts of the country the most talented kids are still playing Legion Ball.  Madison Bumgarner was a Legion player.  Players these days actually have many more options available to play and develop their skills.  In other words, if you are playing, no matter what level, it is a good thing.

Because of the growth in travel ball, it has increased the number of kids playing the game in the summer.  Maybe there are only a few hundred high level teams in the country.  Maybe there are only a hundred highest level teams.  Maybe there are only 50 of the very best teams.  Then there are thousands and thousands of other teams.  These are all opportunities for young players that never existed when I was young.

So that might be good, what is bad?  The more teams, the more organizations, the more money involved, the chance of running into a bad situation increases.  Bad apples pop up, ruining the entire experience.  And it sometimes gets labeled daddy ball.  Then again I have seen Dads that do a great job with kids.  There's nothing wrong or right about Dads coaching or organizing a team. It all depends on who the dad is!  Worse thing is when someone decides they can make a pile of money creating an organization/travel team.  Some organizations actually do very well and they last a long time because they do things the right way.  However, there are others who just don't get that, they just want to count the money and figure out how to keep most of it.  They aren't in it for the players, they aren't in it for the game.  They don't even belong around a baseball field or young kids.  Only good thing about these people is that most of them don't last very long.

So there's the way I see it.  The very best HS age baseball ever played involves the top level of Travel Baseball at this time.  The MLB draft proves that to be true every year.  The number of players drafted or going to DI colleges from the top travel teams is astounding.  Today there are more opportunities to play outside of HS than ever before for kids with talent.  That is all good!  There are also more opportunities for kids that don't possess outstanding talent. That is also good!  But it is only good when those in charge are in it for the right reasons.

At the same time,  the more something grows, the more likely it will create some problems.  Just like most everything, Travel Baseball can be good, bad, or ugly.  The good being as good as it gets and the ugly being as ugly as it gets.  

That is my opinion... What do you think?

I'm not a huge fan of the little league travel ball. It's just too much.   High school travel ball, i.e., Summer league, is indispensable.  

Just returned today from PGWWBA17u (son plays with Dirtbags) and my head is still spinning... but that may be the 2400 miles I've driven in the last 10 days.  Or the hotel bill I just paid?  Hard to say?  Haha! 

Just thought I'd add a shout out for Bumbarner who was a Dirtbags player, as well.  Great thread here!

First, not all travel baseball is created equal.  Different teams have different goals and charters and it is up to the player and parent to match those teams to their goals.   With that statement out of the way, travel baseball is an excellent experience for the player that wants to get better, get exposure, and get a glimpse of what college baseball is like with the travel & pressures.   While in high school, travel baseball can be a precursor to physical and baseball self-training, getting recruited, tournaments, showcases and getting high school work done.   For that reason, I thought travel baseball was an excellent experience for my sons as it taught them time management priorities and challenged them. 

Travel ball gave my son an option to play with like talented kids. We started out in travel at 8U after playing rec ball since 4.5. It was the best thing we could have done. There were ups and downs, plenty of Dads who loved their kids, lots of losses and some nice wins. He never made any of the best teams and frankly we never tried out for those "elite" teams. He learned what is like to play competitively, no matter the score, execute to win and what its like to lack execution/focus and lose. He played for some very good Dad coaches and for others who had played Milb ball. He lost his starting MIF spot at 14U because he wasn't transitioning dimensions and his hitting suffered-he was out of the line up for the first time since he started playing. He started pitching at that point. In the end, through his HS years he ended up playing for a team because of the coaches and boys on that team, even when some of the "Elite" teams wanted him and is now a PO in college. I like that ending. 

Great post Cabbagedad

Changes significantly since I played in the mid-to-late nineties. Back than you would 5-6 days a week during the summer. Benefits you had a real chance to improve. Downside, not enough good local competition. 

The PG type showcase is great. I wish it was around.

 I notice some teams playing 3-4 tournaments ALL summer. How can you get in a rhythm with two weeks between games? Especially for the younger ages. 

Programs, at all levels seem to be much more professional these days. A good thing. 

I also noticed the 18u seems to have faded away from travel. I think that is unfortunate. Graduating seniors, even though no longer showcasing, still could use high level summer competition before college. 

D.C. Baseball posted:

Changes significantly since I played in the mid-to-late nineties. Back than you would 5-6 days a week during the summer. Benefits you had a real chance to improve. Downside, not enough good local competition. 

The PG type showcase is great. I wish it was around.

 I notice some teams playing 3-4 tournaments ALL summer. How can you get in a rhythm with two weeks between games? Especially for the younger ages. 

Programs, at all levels seem to be much more professional these days. A good thing. 

I also noticed the 18u seems to have faded away from travel. I think that is unfortunate. Graduating seniors, even though no longer showcasing, still could use high level summer competition before college. 

There are several opportunities for 18u/graduated seniors.  PONY has a Palomino division, Legion baseball allows a handful of graduated seniors on each roster, there are collegiate summer leagues that allow rising Freshamn who have signed, there are 18 and up "adult wood bat leagues".  Lots of options out there.  It doesn't have to be the hyper competitive travel ball or the Cape Cod league to be good baseball for a graduated senior looking to play before college. 

 

I also noticed the 18u seems to have faded away from travel. I think that is unfortunate. Graduating seniors, even though no longer showcasing, still could use high level summer competition before college. 

Problem with 18U for kids headed to college are many-fold.

 Some show case tournaments don't want rising frosh, it seems.    And kids and parents don't want to pay the fees.    So if your old travel team is aimed mostly at showcase type tournaments and elite 18U events around the country where there's lots of scouting and recruiting going on, it won't seem like the best fit for graduating seniors/rising frosh.  

Really, who wants to run around the country again, when you're already set for the next year, when you've already been there and done that?

With more local and less elite tournaments,  at least in our area,  I find that so many teams "play up"  to 18U, that for the most part it is really 18U in name only.    And for kids trying to get ready for college level competition,  it often doesn't seem like the right level.

Additionally, it turns out that MOST guys, even most guys who spend their youth playing travel ball and chasing the dream of playing beyond high school,  end up hanging  up the cleats after senior year for one reason or another  (academic, social, talent or lack there of,  injuries, burnout, etc). And the minority that are still playing suddenly have far fewer guys their own age to compete against and play with after graduation and before starting the college grind. 

The ideal thing baseball wise would probably be to play in a collegiate summer league, but not that many collegiate summer leagues seem to  welcome rising college frosh.

ON balance, it seems like the summer between senior year in HS  and freshman year can be a tricky one.  I know some guys do summer school and hang out and work out on campus.  But I don't think that's the usual thing.