Yu Darvish

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Originally posted by PGStaff:
All 10 would take Darvish over Verlander? Guess that means they think Darvish will be the best pitcher in baseball. Sure will be interesting to see how this plays out, either way.

No doubt, the "money" is the driving de-tractor. I get it. But, that said I also understand every player is an un-tested talent at one time. For me, every player is a risk, some are just more worth the risk than others. Whether its upside, projectability, 5-tools, good body, plus power, plus arm, command of 4 pitches, 98(+) MPH FB, plus speed, etc, etc, etc. All those attributes don't guarantee success or prevent failure. It's always a crapshoot, the only truisms - clubs try to minimize risk.... and, RISK is always a factor.

GED10DaD

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Originally posted by biggerpapi:

And I'm all for capitalism but $51M just to talk to him? As a father of (cross my fingers) a future draft pick or two, I wish more money and effort were spent on American players.

Big "if" they only spent more on American players. It's not only the overpaying of rights for players but look at the whole picture........almost every MLB team has a training facility in the Dominican, Venezuela that teach, train baseball to prospects year round. You will never see that here. If it can go on it will go on.

It's not $51m just to talk to him. If no contractual agreement is reached in 30 days, the Rangers pay nothing.

Is anyone going to seriously argue the US born and raised baseball players are poor and disadvantaged relative to those from Latin America? Please...

By the way, the post that said ten ML scouts picked Darvish over Verlander is totally wrong. On ESPN they asked ten ML scouts how they would choose between Darvish and Kennedy, Darvish and Verlander, Darvish and several other guys and on the Darvish vs. Verlander, ALL TEN scouts took Verlander not Darvish. Even I am not so high on him where I would take him over Verlander.

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Is anyone going to seriously argue the US born and raised baseball players are poor and disadvantaged relative to those from Latin America? Please...

I might have been partially facetious in stating that, however, I just can't wrap my head around spending $50M just to talk to him.

I like PGStaff's idea. I'd rather get 12 or 20 or even 50 pitchers (American or otherwise) for the same money. I'll bet I'd end up with more than one quality MLB pitcher.

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I'd rather get 12 or 20 or even 50 pitchers (American or otherwise) for the same money.

I would rather look like Brad Pitt too. I would also rather have Warren Buffett's wealth....

I don't think that Texas was the right fit for Wilson.
Should be interesting to see how he does in the better weather.

Wonder how many IV's Darvish will need to go through in the Texas heat, per game.

Wilson did better when it was hot in the summer than when it cooled off in the post season. It's not the weather...

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Wilson did better when it was hot in the summer than when it cooled off in the post season. It's not the weather...

I respectfully disagree, in the Texas League, most are toasted by post season. Some just have a lot of difficulty with the heat, and worn down by season's end.
Wilson did an interview where he said weather was a big factor for him, I agree, at times, two IV's even before a game, it's impossible to stay hydrated.

It will be interesting to see how he does in Anaheim vs. Arlington, that was my point.

That was true "pre-Ryan"...has not been the case since. Compare Wilson's numbers against his peers on the Ranger's staff. He was making excuses, unlike his peers on the staff....one of the reasons he's no longer there.

What will his excuse be in LA? Too distracted when the surf's up?

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
That was true "pre-Ryan"...has not been the case since. Compare Wilson's numbers against his peers on the Ranger's staff. He was making excuses, unlike his peers on the staff....one of the reasons he's no longer there.

What will his excuse be in LA? Too distracted when the surf's up?

He pitched 223 innings last season with a 16-7 record, his second year as a starter, his war 5.0, what more do you want from a reliever turned starter? His biggest fault being the post season, I think he just runs out of gas.
I don't think it was an excuse, having a player in AA Texas League, he has struggled with the heat.

If you are right, he should win the Cy Young this year....he's said as much himself. If I'm right, he' continue to decline and be a 12-10ish pitcher or be on the DL. Time will tell.

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No high school pitcher has ever received $8 million to sign. I'm not sure what Darvish is worth, but if there were enough 8 million dollar high school kids (which there isn't) I would take 12 of those over one Darvish or any other free agent. 8 million is first pick of the draft type money.

The draft artificially constrains the compensation that draftees get relative to free agents, or pseudo-free agents like Darvish. If every HS/College player was a free agent, you'd routinely see some amateur players get bigger deals than they do now. For some examples, look at the sorts of bonuses given out to non-draft eligible FAs like some of the Cubans. Of course you'd probably get more stratification as the super-prospects got more of the overall pie and everyone else less (even allowing for the fact that the pie would probably bigger in this situation).

Of course, the posting system also distorts things, as teams have to bid enough to convince the Japanese team to accept (not to mention the incentive to game the system by over-bidding the posting fee as a blocking maneuver, only to low ball the contract offer). If Darvish were an actual free agent, I think there's a good chance he'd get more than the Rangers will offer him as part of this negotiation, but the team that signed him would spend less than the Rangers will in total between the contract and posting fee.

Nolan Ryan has cured Texas pitchers of worrying about or wearing down in the heat. Proof is in the results - back-to-back ALCS Championships and the 5th best staff ERA in the American League.

CJ was a good pitcher in the regular season for the Rangers but could not get it done in the post-season. That's called "make-up" and the Rangers had seen enough not to offer the big bucks. They had a plan (go after Darvish) and they stuck with it. Kudos to the new ownership for stepping up to the plate.

The anticipation of seeing this kid pitch and the upcoming season has washed away the pain of game six. Can't wait for 2012! The stands will be packed and rocking at the Ballpark. Rangers-Angels rivalry has replaced Yankees-Red Sox hands down.

The Rangers sign Yu Darvish for 6 years/$60 million. That brings the total dollar value spent for the 25 year old RHP to $111.7 million.

Signed!

Will be interesting to see if he is worth it.

Wouldn't it be something if CJ had a career high year and Darvish turns up flat?

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JH said.....The Rangers sign Yu Darvish for 6 years/$60 million. That brings the total dollar value spent for the 25 year old RHP to $111.7 million.

The Rangers are outspending both the Yankees and Red Sox this off season (so far). I'm humbled.

In addition, they now have their entre' into the Japanes markets for brand recognition.

fenway- Sox have been eerily quiet. Yankees were too up until the move a few days ago to bolster the pitching staff (as a Yankee fan I hope this means I never have to see AJ Burnett in pinstripes again).

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The Rangers are outspending both the Yankees and Red Sox this off season

The talk here locally is the Rangers can resign Hamilton and sign Fielder on top of Darvish and still be comfortably within the budget current ownership will accept.

The Rangers better watch out. It's been a while since the best team on paper won the World Series.

Last year before the season, the Red Sox looked unbeatable. By the end of the year they imploded.

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The Rangers better watch out. It's been a while since the best team on paper won the World Series.

The Rangers have never won the WS when they didn't have the best team on paper. It's also nice to see someone pushing the Yankees and Redsox to the kiddie table at Thanksgiving.

I don't think the Red Sox and Yankees got pushed to the kiddie table. The Red Sox picked up two quality relievers while losing only one and the Yankees picked up two starting pitchers. If Valentine can eliminate what caused the Red Sox to fold in September (it wasn't about talent) they will be right in the chase again.

I'm with RJM. My unbiased opinion is that the Yankees and the Red Sox are the best two teams in the American League on paper. Much more depth top to bottom in the pitching staffs than the Rangers.

Of course, that is "on paper" and it's only January.

I agree with JH and RJM.
Here's something interesting from Tom Verducci, who is pretty much on target each year, the rangers have 2 pitchers on his red flag list.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...er.effect/index.html

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Originally posted by TPM:
I agree with JH and RJM.
Here's something interesting from Tom Verducci, who is pretty much on target each year, the rangers have 2 pitchers on his red flag list.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...er.effect/index.html

It's a good article. I remember the Red Sox being concerned how much Buchholz was blowing out his previous year innings total. They started giving him five days between starts. He still blew out his back in 2011.

I'm a great fan of Mariano Rivera, but we all know that sooner or later--probably sooner at his age--he is going to fall off the cliff. Every great reaches that moment and you can bet, just from observing how the Yankees are handling Jeter's decline as well as they kind of stretched out Posada's, the Yankees will do it again with Mo and probably cost themselves a pennant. The Yankees are considered to be pretty ruthless, but they are still often ruled by tradition or fan opinion as in the case of Jeter and they will have a hard time changing closers in mid stream if Mo fights them on it when he starts to fade. With Posada, they could just put someone else in his place, but it may take a year or year and a half to adjust to life with an ineffective Rivera if Mo doesn't go quitely into the night. The Yankees have had bad ends (at least temporarily) with many of their drawing card superstars--Ruth, Rizzuto, Maris, Berra, Jackson, & Bernie Williams. It will be interesting how quick they are with the knife if Rivera starts failing in mid season.

As for the Bosox, I look for a rejuvenation for a year or two under Bobby Valentine, but in the past he has shown a tendency to get on his players and team executives nerves after a while, kind of like Billy Martin used to. perhaps as he's gotten older and after his years in Japan, where he certainly had to learn patience, Bobby is a little different since his Texas and NY Met days. We shall see and it should be fun!

Three Bagger,
As far as I have heard Mo has many more miles to fly, however, I think plans down the road may include Joba.

The yankees have a young crop of good pitchers in the wings, it's just a matter of throwing them into the ring, and trying to cope with keeping fans happy with growing pains.

I think Joba's shipped sailed a long time ago.

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As far as I have heard Mo has many more miles to fly, however, I think plans down the road may include Joba.

David Robertson is a superstar in the making IMO. Joba should be used as trade bait in the VERY near future, assuming a team would jump at that. They could probably bolster up with a lefty reliever or a young backup outfielder for him, nothing too glamorous but something they'd need more than a mediocre out-of-shape bullpen arm.

Jeter's downfall has been and will continue to be defensively. He had a productive year at the plate last year. Certainly not anywhere near his best, but nothing to scoff at.

Until Mo does dwindle, there's really no telling what the timetable will be. He's truly incredible.

quote:

Originally posted by Three Bagger:
I think Joba's shipped sailed a long time ago.

He's 26 years old, he was once designated as the set up man for Mo. Joba is a perfect example of what can go wrong with a pitcher not handled well and one that probably has been hurt since he came to ML.

They just agreed to a new contract with him for 1.6 give or take, if he works out this year, it would be a bargain for them.

Joba had lost a lot of velocity and just doesn't seem the same pitcher. Perhaps he can still become a useful reliever, but I don't see him as Mo's successor anymore. While its true Jeter still had a decent offensive year for a shortstop, fielding is crucial at that position and his bat, which will probably continue to decline this year doesn't play anywhere else except possibly second base and the Yankees aren't going to move Cano even if Jeter was willing to move which he seems adverse to anyway.

Joba's problems may be of his own making. He never seemed like a guy who worked hard to get into good shape. He's still young. If and when he matures more and starts getting, and staying in shape his career could quickly get back on track.

Just for the record I am not a Yankee fan or a Joba fan, just pointing out that he is expected to fill a role and I believe, it is to replace Mo, eventually.
Lost velocity was due to shoulder issues as well as elbow. And a lot of that has to do with how he has been managed. You just can't have a guy start, then switch to pen, then back to start, back to pen, it just doesn't work that way. JMO.

do not know if any of you heard harold reynolds take on darvish and any japanese pitchers---sccording to reynolds there is a little known fact that comes into play---pitching mounds in japan are not the same height as here in the usa

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pitching mounds in japan are not the same height as here in the usa

baseballs are a little bigger in the US too

The mounds are flatter in Japan apparently but this guy is 6'5" tall, much taller than the average Japanese pitcher, so the higher mounds will probably only help him once he gets used to them. Matsuzaka won eighteen games with Boston with less stuff, poorer command and constant nibbling at the plate. Yu much more resembles the American prototype of a Major League pitcher. He will do fine once he settles in. Texas has the bats to overcome some rough outings.

Three Bagger;
In 2004, my son and I watched Yu pitch for his HS Team
in the Spring HS tournament in Osaka. 40,000 watch the game at Koshien and 30 million on TV.

IN the Japan HS tournament, the #1 pitcher on a team will pitch each game. All major stadiums have "flat" mounds and "No grass" infield for 2 reasons.

1. Save the pitchers arms
2. Allow the game to be played if heavy rains occur.

After each game, the news reporters [20-30] will interview key players of the game.

Actually, I was interviewed by the media and then received an envelope.

Inside the envelope was $1,000 yen.

Naturally I request additional interviews.

Bob

Bob,

I don't blame you! So what is your feeling about how Yu will do in the American League?

His training program in Japan will be an asset to Nolan Ryan's training for the Rangers pitchers.

He is also accustomed to the media and of course the Japanese media will be in constant attendance in Spring Training.

If you plan to visit the Rangers in Surprise, let me know. Several of our coaches in Australia are Texas Rangers managers and scouts.

Bob