quote:“Since so much has been written contrary to my response to vtmom, thought it should be repeated.”
I have read nothing contrary to your original response to the OP and my response was not to you in particular and only to the way training timeline has evolved incorrectly due only in part by your organization.
quote:“All we can do is tell people if they are not ready, don't come! That was the message above.”
This was completely understood! Did you understand my response? None of the pitchers you evaluate in the fall and winter are ready especially the ones that train correctly!
quote:”If there is any disadvantage in sending us information about a player, I don't know what it would be”
There is none
quote:“Anyone who thinks it's better if we don't know about a player has received bad advice”
Nobody has said this! why are you saying they have?
quote:”All that said, there is no perfect guideline to reaching the top”
This is where you fail in understanding training timeline and proper exercise physiological principles. That’s all I’m saying and I’m not wrong on this.
quote:“It's been done many different ways”
All to the detriment of pitchers and their upcoming seasons that should come first!
You must really be unaware this is happening?
quote:To be honest, it has been done with PG and it has been done without PG.
It is disrupted with PG, now add in all the rest of the perceived importance obligations.
quote:“The most important thing is to keep getting better.”
Do you understand that what I have been saying is exactly what this quote is saying and any shutdown in training is detrimental to physiological advancement by trying to be ready for all these events run continually? You have still not discussed my only contentions.
quote:“First of all, you are wrong.”
I am absolutely not wrong on this and I am not questioning your staffs injury prevention
theory and if you mean the people you work with being the baseball establishment at all youth, college and pro levels? You are the one that is wrong on this, injuries have been increasing not reducing and this is my worry and complaint to you and all the rest that by doing what you all do at the inappropriate time these kids are never ready to compete at the beginning of the season.
quote:“The people we work with are very much into injury prevention in every way”
You wouldn’t know it by the mechanics and training they agree with!
quote:“That would include number of pitches”
with injurious mechanics they better be!
quote:“insufficient recovery time”
I believe you guys can’t screw this up, there’s to many of them.
quote:conditioning
I’m telling you they do not have a handle on this by the many disruptions along the way.
quote:AND mechanics.
How wrong can you be in a thread where the OP’s kid is coming off of arm problems!
If your going to yell at least be correct, you are not, the mechanics (or not) that you evaluate at these events are injurious as taught by all these well meaning but wrong headed pitching coaches, It’s a fact and this is one of the fallacies I speak of and nobody is blaming YOU.
quote:“Listen you throw less pitches and at lower velocity, you are less likely to get hurt. You are also unlikely to be successful.”
What are you saying here, I am really confused by this statement?
quote:‘Would you rather have perfect mechanics or mechanics that are safer and be unsuccessful or would you rather have mechanical flaws but pitch in the big leagues”
How can I answer this utterly non-sensible question?
Non-injurious force application that is performed at maximally still does not injure you unless you are not in shape!
Injurious force application at maximal intensities continually breaks you down until you break.
quote:“If you pitch long enough there is a very high percentage you will have an arm injury. The number of great pitchers who have had TJ surgery is astounding.”
Glad you recognize this! Are you aware there is a simple fix? If you have been reading my posts you might have run across the fix even though I am a cultist shill kool aid drinker, it still works.
quote:”I have nothing but respect for Marshall and his beliefs. He is one very smart guy. However, we need to know the results.
He has produced results even with the broken pitchers he receives, can you name the pitchers whom he has trained that made it to the top? Can you name the current MLB pitchers that are using his tenets now and increasing every year?
quote:How many MLB pitchers have followed his plan (mechanics)?
One of them holds many MLB records (now for over 30 years) including winning 3 games (3 straight days) in a row and won the first Cy Young award as a reliever, don’t tell me you can’t name him? Results.
quote:“In time we might all find out that he was correct.”
You would have to do what I have done to find out, I have tried to show it from the bottom up but everybody balks at it and since this sport has no bar to jump over it is squelched through subjection, do you think it will magicly come in from the top down?
quote:“ It will take results for that to happen. He knows that!”
There has been plenty of great results, you are either not aware of them or are playing the Ostrich like many.
How come the knowledgeable people in your organization do not assign a biological age assessment in your analysis?
And could you please now address my original concern? I have answered all your off subject questions, how about some fair quid?
CADad,
quote:”I think you should only hold your showcases during the HS regular season. That way you can be sure that the kids are in playing shape.”
This is a great idea and the perfect time to do it, there is a one week dead period after Easter that would give you the best results but down (SoCal) here CIF might balk.
The actual best time would be 5 days before the draft just after the play off’s
quote:“I don't think Marshall is anywhere near as bright as he thinks he is”
Marshall has never claimed brightness but you on the other hand are showing yours.
What does your disrespectful thoughts have to do with the subject we are discussing?
“A PHD, especially in kinesiology, is no guarantee of brilliance.”
He has already cleaned up the NFL throwers 30 years ago, he figures baseball while not having many advanced educated participants yet might want to clean up their mess also?
Coach May,
quote:“We are being told that the way we do it is wrong and we should change.”
How do you do it in the fall and winter?
I don’t believe you have divulged your particular technique but wish to we yourself.
quote:“We are being told that you have the answers.”
You are being told that breaks in training timeline are detrimental to physiological advancement. It is your right to disbelieve these exercise physiological tenets if you wish.
quote:“So if you would give us some examples of pitchers that have followed this plan and have had success with it that would be great”
Start with Dr Mike Marshall!
quote:“If your so sold on Marshall mechanics there must be some players out there that you can use as examples. Some players that have reached the pinnacle of the profession because of Marshall mechanics”
This is really not necessary being that these are known physiological tenets that you can easily find with some book learnin and the mechanics part has had very little time to give provenance but since I love reading your positive and thoughtful posts in the past and future I will indulge you just this once.
quote:” If you can eliminate or reduce greatly the risk of injury from pitching and at the same time reach your full potential as a pitcher using Marshall mechanics give us some results that prove this. That would be very helpful”
I will give you 2, one drafted in the first round with an MLB org. and one drafted in the first round in the NFL.
Tyler Matzek (Rockies) was trained for 8 years using Marshalls mechanics and training and is currently in progressive sport specific training regression and will not come out of it until Feb..
Mark Sanches (Jets) was trained using Marshall mechanics and partially trained (just learning) because he was to young where when he entered SMCHS as a freshman he was pitching in the low 9’s then quit baseball to pursue his dream of signing for over 50 mil.
There are many more and another AFLAC pitcher this year but I can’t give you his name because of the negative stigma that many attach like you see here that may effect his draftability?